Bent over rows for the big guy

[ProtienFiend]

Anyone know a good way to do bent over rows without screwing up your back?

I'm about 6'5 and I always seem to tweak my lower back when I attempt these. So I usually I stick to low rows or single bent over rows with my other arm on a flat bench.

I should also mention that my lower back gets hurt pretty easy. Ive hurt it doing cleans (about 4 times so Ive finally quit), bent over rows, deadlift, squats, and some how even with dips (under fatigue) and heavy shrugs.

Any tips would be appreciated or if you think I should stick with what im doing you may voice that too.

Thanks
PF

 

[gettnlarge01]

If your lower back gets hurt that easy I would stay away from bent rows.Have you tried one-arm rows with your chest resting on an incline bench? This has help thicken up my back alot.

 

[fortunatesun]

Chest-supported rows like gettnlarge mentioned are what I first thought of,too.
Other things you could try are:
T-bar row
Pull throughs w/straight legs. Stand facing away from a cable and pull the attachment through your legs. (Bending your knees will activate your hams.)
Chins

If you can get access to a reverse-hyper machine I'd definately give it a try. This will serve to strengthen your lower back. It also tractions the vertebrae, allowing spinal fluid to ente,r as you use it which will provide restoration at the same time.
Something you can try if you don't have one are back raises. Just like a normal hyperextension only going to parrallel. Using a barbell to add resistance, you can go quite heavy.
One other way to strengthen your lower back are Zercher Squats.

 

[ProtienFiend]

Chest-supported rows like gettnlarge mentioned are what I first thought of,too.
Other things you could try are:
T-bar row
Pull throughs w/straight legs. Stand facing away from a cable and pull the attachment through your legs. (Bending your knees will activate your hams.)
Chins

If you can get access to a reverse-hyper machine I'd definately give it a try. This will serve to strengthen your lower back. It also tractions the vertebrae, allowing spinal fluid to ente,r as you use it which will provide restoration at the same time.
Something you can try if you don't have one are back raises. Just like a normal hyperextension only going to parrallel. Using a barbell to add resistance, you can go quite heavy.
One other way to strengthen your lower back are Zercher Squats.

Wow I'll have to look up some of these movements. Pull throughs sound a little weird... are they really that much better than low rows or dumbbel rows?

T-Bar machines are usually too small for me even if I stand on the floor.

Ill have to try those incline rows. Do you pull straight back or in a reverse "fly" motion? Also how "inclined" should the bench be? I usually incline bench at about 15-30 deg which is pretty low (almost flat).

PF

 

[wakefib]

if you are going to do cleans try doing them from the hang. it will be alot easier on your back.

 

[boss_]

Anyone know a good way to do bent over rows without screwing up your back?

I'm about 6'5 and I always seem to tweak my lower back when I attempt these. So I usually I stick to low rows or single bent over rows with my other arm on a flat bench.

I should also mention that my lower back gets hurt pretty easy. Ive hurt it doing cleans (about 4 times so Ive finally quit), bent over rows, deadlift, squats, and some how even with dips (under fatigue) and heavy shrugs.

Any tips would be appreciated or if you think I should stick with what im doing you may voice that too.

Thanks
PF

Don't go as heavy until you find the form that won't aggravate your lower back. And find a CSR machine. Also, slowly build up your low back with good mornings, rev hypers, back raises, etc.

 

[ProtienFiend]

if you are going to do cleans try doing them from the hang. it will be alot easier on your back.

The funny part is, that I was doing hang cleans. The problem is after Im done with the motion, I let the bar fall down but hold onto it because I use steel weights. When it drops, it throws out my lower back if I get fatigued enough. Usually I have to be doing 160+lbs but I think I have even done it with 135lb before.

 

[ProtienFiend]

Don't go as heavy until you find the form that won't aggravate your lower back. And find a CSR machine. Also, slowly build up your low back with good mornings, rev hypers, back raises, etc.

So you think its a muscle deficiency that is causing this?

I just assumed it was because I was tall. Ya know, Mass x Length = Torque.

 

[fortunatesun]

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=33903&tid=104

T-bar machines are usually too small for me

For T-bar rows you can use the old school method- jam one end of a barbell into a free corner and support it with a few 45 lb. plates and whatever to keep it in place.

how inclined should the bench be?

Angle of incline on the bench is up to you. You can even do them totally prone.

Pull throughs sound a little weird

yep, they take alittle getting used to. Not a primary mass builder, they're usually used as a strength exercise:http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=33909&tid=104 I've found that if you keep your back at 90deg. (unlike the picture) you also work your upper back a bit more and get a good pump.


Zercher squats- http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=33903&tid=104

Also came across Dimel Deadlifts. These work great for strenghtening lower back, and are quite stress free as they are done explosively with only about 30% of your deadlift max: http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=33919&tid=102

 

[super_rice]

if you are going to do cleans try doing them from the hang. it will be alot easier on your back.

this is actually the converse.

any movement from the hang is harsher on your back than the full movement from the floor. the least stressful movement is a full movement from the floor, then from the hang, then power variation, then power variation from the hang (the worst).

i always agrevate my back doing power cleans from the hang.

suck it up baby yeah

 

[Protobuilder]

Honestly, if I were you, I'd figure out WTF is wrong w/ the lower back or why it keeps getting hurt. Having a crap lower back really sucks. Maybe you need greater core strength or something?

 

[silver_shadow]

do you deweight the bar on bent over rows?

 

[wakefib]

this is actually the converse.

any movement from the hang is harsher on your back than the full movement from the floor. the least stressful movement is a full movement from the floor, then from the hang, then power variation, then power variation from the hang (the worst).

i always agrevate my back doing power cleans from the hang.

suck it up baby yeah

i would be an idiot to argue with you about olympic lifts. i read something about this at t-nation http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-157-training

"Now I'm trying to piss off the Olympic lifters (if I didn't already with my RDL comment). I'm not trying to be popular; I'm trying to make people think. I like to describe it as a good swift kick in the comfort zone.

Bottom line: hang cleans are safer than cleans from the floor. Cleans from the floor are easier for short people. The diameter of a 20K plate is a constant. What makes someone a good athlete often makes him a bad Olympic lifter. Hang cleans are the great equalizer.

Everyone starts from the same position. It's often difficult for taller athletes to get into a proper start position for a clean from the floor. This again puts the low back at risk as athletes attempt to position themselves for the clean."

 

[ProtienFiend]

do you deweight the bar on bent over rows?

huh?

EDIT: You mean take the weights off after? Yes, I do that with everything because I hate people who leave their weights on so I have to take theirs off then my own.

 

[ProtienFiend]

Honestly, if I were you, I'd figure out WTF is wrong w/ the lower back or why it keeps getting hurt. Having a crap lower back really sucks. Maybe you need greater core strength or something?

I attribute it to a combination of being tall and having a desk job where I sit for hours in front of a computer. And then of course those damn hang cleans with too much weight. If I screw it up with that, it usually takes a few months to completely heal, and I can easily reinjure it with deads or something.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

huh?

put the weight on the floor then rep... not tap and go.

 

[silver_shadow]

huh?

do you touch the bar down (& "deweight") on the ground after every rep, or do you pick it up and keep churning out reps, each time your arms are fully stretched, the plates are a few inches above the ground and only come down after your last rep?

 

[ProtienFiend]

put the weight on the floor then rep... not tap and go.

No I usually don't. I used to get bitched at by the weight room attendant for being too "loud". And to "be careful with the weights".

 

[ProtienFiend]

do you touch the bar down (& "deweight") on the ground after every rep, or do you pick it up and keep churning out reps, each time your arms are fully stretched, the plates are a few inches above the ground and only come down after your last rep?

The latter sounds like me.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

No I usually don't. I used to get bitched at by the weight room attendant for being too "loud". And to "be careful with the weights".

use more fineese then there's a difference between dropping from an inch above the floor and placing down "nicely." lol

If your lower back is injured and not just sore from not being conditioned then I'd deff reccomend chest supported rows. I'm going to have to start doing them that way soon too

 

[ProtienFiend]

Thanks for the advice. Im going to read those links fortunateson posted and see which I should use.

 

[lurchandy]

Know where ur comin from im 6`4" and had same problem from several motorcycle and car accident (tore all the ligaments in back and sholders, disintergrated colarbone ect). How I got my lower and uper back strength back up to par was with stiff leg deadlift, keeping bar over feet, with realy good form (consentrate on the back posture). I was skeptical when told to do this but it really worked well. Now my lower back is strongest part of most lifts, uper back still tends to fall out ocasionaly do to bad posture when sitting in front of PC reading these threads for hours on end

 

[super_rice]

That's a good point. But it's only true if the lifter is inexperienced and does not know how to set up a lift with regards to the positioning during the first pull.

Hang cleans are logically more stressful on lower back structures. You have to pick it up first and then lower it to the 2nd pull or end of first pull (above knee/at knee/below knee) position then from that point of highest shearing force on the spine, reverse directions and accelerate to maximum speed.

I don't know for certain if my above ideas are right, but this is what I've learned from my coach and from experience (when my lower back is being bitchy, the first exercise that becomes unbearable is the hang clean).

Plus, people tend to be very jerky with hang cleans instead of speed acceleration.

Whihc reminds me: we have to meet on campus and talk sometime. I am still banking on Mac getting platforms so I can move my equipment in and lift.

i would be an idiot to argue with you about olympic lifts. i read something about this at t-nation http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-157-training

"Now I'm trying to piss off the Olympic lifters (if I didn't already with my RDL comment). I'm not trying to be popular; I'm trying to make people think. I like to describe it as a good swift kick in the comfort zone.

Bottom line: hang cleans are safer than cleans from the floor. Cleans from the floor are easier for short people. The diameter of a 20K plate is a constant. What makes someone a good athlete often makes him a bad Olympic lifter. Hang cleans are the great equalizer.

Everyone starts from the same position. It's often difficult for taller athletes to get into a proper start position for a clean from the floor. This again puts the low back at risk as athletes attempt to position themselves for the clean."

 

[wakefib]

That's a good point. But it's only true if the lifter is inexperienced and does not know how to set up a lift with regards to the positioning during the first pull.

Hang cleans are logically more stressful on lower back structures. You have to pick it up first and then lower it to the 2nd pull or end of first pull (above knee/at knee/below knee) position then from that point of highest shearing force on the spine, reverse directions and accelerate to maximum speed.

I don't know for certain if my above ideas are right, but this is what I've learned from my coach and from experience (when my lower back is being bitchy, the first exercise that becomes unbearable is the hang clean).

Plus, people tend to be very jerky with hang cleans instead of speed acceleration.

Whihc reminds me: we have to meet on campus and talk sometime. I am still banking on Mac getting platforms so I can move my equipment in and lift.

you are definitly right if someone is jerky and doesn't have good form.
for sure, let me know when/if you end up coming to work out at the pulse. i think i may have saw you in mills library like a month ago if you are who i think you are. hopefully by then i can get back into oly lifts.

 

[super_rice]

I study at mills sometimes, but usually for group work etc. I'm the skinny asian health sci kid with the huge laptop (actually, that does not narrow it down very well).

I cancelled my membership at the pulse, but I'm sure I can still come in a couple of times. I'll just say I'm oging to to talk to the staff or something about the platforms.

you are definitly right if someone is jerky and doesn't have good form.
for sure, let me know when/if you end up coming to work out at the pulse. i think i may have saw you in mills library like a month ago if you are who i think you are. hopefully by then i can get back into oly lifts.

 

[ProtienFiend]

... lower it to the 2nd pull or end of first pull (above knee/at knee/below knee) position then from that point of highest shearing force on the spine, reverse directions and accelerate to maximum speed.

Thats exactly where I have my problems. Maybe I should start doing power cleans again instead.... I just prefer rubber weights when doing those.

PF

 

[wakefib]

what about doing cleans from blocks so you don't have to pull from so low?