Belt and Wraps

[blut wump]

What are people's thoughts on the effectiveness of belt and knee wraps in aiding training? Is it better to stay within your unassisted weight or use the equipment to get more weight out? I'm not training for any comp, just trying to get stronger.

I got to my top set of 5x5 squats yesterday and bombed in the hole on my first rep. Rather than lower the weight (I'd been meaning to try my new wraps for a few weeks), I stuck on my belt and wraps and did the set. Do you think in general it'd be better to lower the weight rather than do what I did?

The odd thing is that after taking the belt and wraps off I managed to get out a full rep on the weight before unloading the bar. I had been having some groin stiffness during the earlier sets.

 

[KIAN]

They are a must if you are pushing yourself over the limit but don't allow yourself to believe that they have some magical forcefield. There will be a point when they fail and result in an injury so you need to know your limits and understand that wraps and belts are only there to add some extra support. You have probably heard of guys blowing out their knee(s) even with the wraps on so use your own judgement when using them and pushing yourself.

I use a belt when I curl, probably the only guy in my gym who does that, but I feel more in control of the weight with the additional support. My lower back has always been a concern for me since I injured it many years ago.

______________________

KP -- Fitness Basics

 

[blut wump]

I was thinking purely in terms of using the equipment to handle more weight. Safety is another issue entirely.

 

[bignate73]

i would assume you would treat it just like a 2 board press, you know its not your max full range bench press and have to record it as such. you know what your raw squat is, maybe what your squat is with wraps, belted loose, belted tight. similar to full range bench, 1 board, 2 board, 4 board. etc. sort of allows you to progress in weight still, but keeps things in perspective. either way, the extra load will be beneficial to your raw lifts by getting your CNS ready to hold the weight.

 

[Sub-Zero]

i would assume you would treat it just like a 2 board press, you know its not your max full range bench press and have to record it as such. you know what your raw squat is, maybe what your squat is with wraps, belted loose, belted tight. similar to full range bench, 1 board, 2 board, 4 board. etc. sort of allows you to progress in weight still, but keeps things in perspective. either way, the extra load will be beneficial to your raw lifts by getting your CNS ready to hold the weight.

with the cns thing, is it true that you can just load up a couple plates more than u can squat into a squat bar and just rest it on ur back, stand back like ur going to squat but just stand there instead of squat, then put it back and it still trains ur cns?

or is that bs

 

[Tweakle]

wraps I hate

belt goes on if I'm squatting 500+ ... there's no reason not to use a belt at those weights, provided you do occasional supplementary raw work

 

[bignate73]

with the cns thing, is it true that you can just load up a couple plates more than u can squat into a squat bar and just rest it on ur back, stand back like ur going to squat but just stand there instead of squat, then put it back and it still trains ur cns?

or is that bs

yeah they're called walkouts. its tricking your body's stretch reflex sensors to not shut the muscle down under an unaccustomed load. its the protection mechanism to keep us from ripping our own muscles.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

i wear a belt on almost all my sets..
i think the argument it will hurt your core is completely false assuming you are using the belt the proper way..you should be pushing your abs out against it..it doesnt need to be so tight you cant breathe..

As far as wraps go ive gotten away from using them..wraps are the last thing if at all, i put on when attempting any sort of max..

Generally i use a belt and briefs..
suit goes on with straps down
then straps up
then maybe add wraps

there are some who go right to wraps and a belt and dont use briefs..I squat extremely wide and dont need to fuck up a hip and be out of comission for months

 

[wnt2bBeast]

with the cns thing, is it true that you can just load up a couple plates more than u can squat into a squat bar and just rest it on ur back, stand back like ur going to squat but just stand there instead of squat, then put it back and it still trains ur cns?

or is that bs

i think walkouts are a waste..If you are squatting super huge weights you are much better off finding a gym with a mono..Its much safer

As far as training for the back there is a reason WSB is based so heavily on goodmornings and its no coincidence they have many over 1,000 lb squatters..

Abs and obliques are very important in walking weights out..

 

[cwc73]

I'll write some things about belts and knee wraps that is in my "Fitness Instructor Manual" that I must study to get certified at my school's gym. Just remember that this also the book that says that squating below parallel should be avoided at all costs.
All of the following was in this book, but I reworded and rearranged things to fit, so it really isn't qouted.
"A belt should only be used at loads of or above 80% of the 1 RM in only excercises in thich the spinal erectors work against high resistance or when the spine may hyperextend or when muscular fatigue may make it difficult to execute a given exercise properly. However, if properly worn, the belt might limit the progressive strengthening of the body's own lifting belt which is the abdominal musculature and lower back supporting structures. It has been reported that the electromyographic activity of the abs, obliques, and erecot spinae was reduced when wearing a belt.
High intra abdominal pressure created during lifts may impede blood flow back to the heart. Blood pressure and heart rate may be elevated. And finally, for excercises not stressing the lower back, do not wear a belt at all"

As for the knee wraps I'll bring out some highlights of the book...

"In experiments, 1 wrap increased the lifting force by 25lbs. 2 wraps increased the lifting force by 75 lbs.

They enhance blood flow to the knee and increased pliability by raising the temperature making a tear less likely.

Gives the lifted a better idea of the depth or angle by feeling the tightness and tension of the band.

There is no available evidence that knee wraps can actually prevent injury to lifters.


Disadvatages:
could weaken the knees natural strength because it is relying on an artificial support.

Create inward pressure on the patalla. In this case the patella in forced back and a grinding effect occurs.

Multilayer wrap has a tendency to gather in the back. This acts as a pivot point pushing the bones at the front of the knee joint forward and separating them (a dislocating effect)."

ONCE AGAIN....
I'm not saying that this stuff is true by ANY means. This is just what my book says. I just want to try and help a little because I get SO much help here.

CWC

 

[wnt2bBeast]

CWC-
study your book so that you can pass the test..Then you make your own opinions from your own experience..

I know a very experienced PL'er who went for his PT certificate and said that 90% of the material in the book was complete and total bullshit but its what they want you to know..

I liken being a PT to a stockbroker..a broker only needs to pass the series 7 (not easy but not that hard) passing the test teaches you nothing about the market its mostly rules and regulations..ow this person becomes legal to take your money and "invest" it??? yeah right

There are very good stockborkers out there and there are some really good PT's..the certificate means shit..just get it so that youre legal and then research on your own..

 

[cwc73]

Yea beast I totally agree. As in the fact for taking the test I will right squating below parallel and such things are bad for you, but after I take the test everyone I will be training will be doing full squats if physically able. I do totally agree that this book is mostly bullshit, but it does have some good info in it. I guess it is just the hardcore people that wave the "bullshit flag" vs. the "girlie man" that just wants to be a sissy.

 

[EnderJE]

I like my belt and don't care that I write "belt assisted" when I'm recording my maxes.

 

[blut wump]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I think you've all pretty much confirmed what I thought: that it can be worthwhile going over your raw weight or getting an equipment assist.

Also, I think after my current program is over I'll try to see just how much extra lift I do get from wearing a belt and from wraps.

If I haven't given you K it's because I must have recently given.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Yea beast I totally agree. As in the fact for taking the test I will right squating below parallel and such things are bad for you, but after I take the test everyone I will be training will be doing full squats if physically able. I do totally agree that this book is mostly bullshit, but it does have some good info in it. I guess it is just the hardcore people that wave the "bullshit flag" vs. the "girlie man" that just wants to be a sissy.

i like the idea of helping people train as well..
personally i would like to train with athletes..it might be hard to convince the average housewife she needs to do squats lol..
good luck

 

[Boss101]

My knees have been sore for the last couple of weeks when I squat. My friend gave me some knee sleeves. They don't fit tight or loose just snug, my knees don't give me problems when I squat now. Would it be ok to wear the knee sleeves when I squat? Or will it just make my knees worse?

 

[cwc73]

My opinion is that you should only use them for heavy weights like around 85-90% of your 1 rm. This is because I think you need to allow your knees to get used to squatting natually. How deep are you going?

 

[wnt2bBeast]

My knees have been sore for the last couple of weeks when I squat. My friend gave me some knee sleeves. They don't fit tight or loose just snug, my knees don't give me problems when I squat now. Would it be ok to wear the knee sleeves when I squat? Or will it just make my knees worse?

actually what that tells me is you are not warming your knees up enough..the sleeves are keeping the heat in and warming the knee..some people nbeed more warm-ups than others..

i had knee surgery a long time ago anyway i get arthritis in my knee somtimes as bad weather is coming etc..well it was squat day and my knee was just aching i always keep a knee wrap in my bag for things like that..i wrapped my knee for all my warm-up sets then took it off for my heavier sets and by that time i had no knee ache what so ever..and i felt fine the next day as well..

 

[Boss101]

actually what that tells me is you are not warming your knees up enough..the sleeves are keeping the heat in and warming the knee..some people nbeed more warm-ups than others..

i had knee surgery a long time ago anyway i get arthritis in my knee somtimes as bad weather is coming etc..well it was squat day and my knee was just aching i always keep a knee wrap in my bag for things like that..i wrapped my knee for all my warm-up sets then took it off for my heavier sets and by that time i had no knee ache what so ever..and i felt fine the next day as well..

What are you doing to warm up your knees? I've tried the leg ext with light weight high reps but that doesn't seem to do much. My first warm up set of squats kills my knees, but once I get into heavier weights the pain starts to go away. Have you ever tried any joint creams like BenGay or Flexall? So do you think its okay to wear a knee sleeve when I squat even though I'm not maxing?

cwc73 - How deep are you going?

I squat deep.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

What are you doing to warm up your knees? I've tried the leg ext with light weight high reps but that doesn't seem to do much. My first warm up set of squats kills my knees, but once I get into heavier weights the pain starts to go away. Have you ever tried any joint creams like BenGay or Flexall? So do you think its okay to wear a knee sleeve when I squat even though I'm not maxing?

cwc73 - How deep are you going?

I squat deep.

personally i warm up for squats by squatting..
I only do box squats but it doesnt matter..i start with the bar to get in my groove..

If im having one of those days where i need extra warm-ups there is nothing wrong with doing just the bar for sets of 15 etc then progressing slowly in weight..the idea is to get heat to the knee by keeping the reps high..

 

[blut wump]

I've been doing the same for stretching out my hips and groin which have been feeling tight this past week or so.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

I've been doing the same for stretching out my hips and groin which have been feeling tight this past week or so.

good point.. as part of my GPP i stretch everyday..
its helped my flexibility tremendously

 

[needsize]

personally I never use a belt on any kind of working set, a surgeon explained years ago about how it infinitely increases your risk for a hernia, so I dropped it then and never looked back. Now I can squat sets of 500lbs, ass to the floor, so it didnt hurt my strength much, and my legs grew like weeds
A few months ago, the day I squatted 500 for reps the first time, the guy spotting me is a massive bodybuilder who has won contests all over the world. He talked me into trying his belt. I dropped the weight for the next set, threw on the belt, and couldnt do jack....so now I cant use one even if I want too

 

[wnt2bBeast]

A few months ago, the day I squatted 500 for reps the first time, the guy spotting me is a massive bodybuilder who has won contests all over the world. He talked me into trying his belt. I dropped the weight for the next set, threw on the belt, and couldnt do jack....so now I cant use one even if I want too

what happened there bud?
did it just feel "bulky" and in the way?

i hate doing deads with a belt it just seems to be in my way i cant get as low to the bar as i like it moves etc...Id rather pull in training without a belt..but ive been using one on heavier sets just to get used to the feel..

its just a little readjustment..i wear one from my 2nd set on for squats but its extrmemly loose

 

[needsize]

what happened there bud?
did it just feel "bulky" and in the way?

i hate doing deads with a belt it just seems to be in my way i cant get as low to the bar as i like it moves etc...Id rather pull in training without a belt..but ive been using one on heavier sets just to get used to the feel..

its just a little readjustment..i wear one from my 2nd set on for squats but its extrmemly loose

it was really digging into my stomach, and hurt, so it was distracting, and it threw off my form

 

[blut wump]

Apparently that's not uncommon. More than one program I've looked at has recommended wearing the belt loose for a couple of weeks before trying to use it to get an assist and mentioned that going straight from unbelted to belted will likely result in a drop in weight.

 

[b fold the truth]

I train two different ways...

1) Raw
2) Full gear

This year I've done one set in full gear on the squat. Hurt my foot walking the weight back and still did 2 easy reps. Works the body in a different way than doing raw sets. It really doesn't feel much different than doing my box squats with lots of band tension though.

Knee wraps help me A LOT...but I have a pretty good pair of Frantz TP5000 XL's. The best as far as I'm concerned. They don't compare to the Inzers that I have...they are far better for me. The belt helps me a good deal on the squats and A LOT on moving Strongman Events...but my abs are fairly strong as well.

I say have a day every once in a while where you put the gear on and increase the weight by say 10% and do your sets. Either do raw...or supported. The Support gear could mean that your body doesn't feel as beat up at the end of the day yet you have been under more weight. That has it's benefits too.

B True