BB ROWS..Help!!

[ChinkNasty]

alright fellas, I've been doing these for a while but I've never really felt like I've reaped the benefits that al ot of guys on this board talk about. I know lotta guys here love the BB rows and I've forced myself to do them despite not liking them to much/don't really feel it that much while I 'm doing them.
What kind of stance and grip do you guys use? narrow? wide? pronated/supinated? stiff legged and bent over? help out a bro

peace,
CN

 

[casualbb]

Try a seated, mid-grip, cable row

For me it feels 150% better than a BB row

 

[psilo]

I could never feel BB rows very well and my erectors always gave out early on in the set. Lately I've been doing T-Bar rows and I absolutely love them. My lats are looking wider too.

 

[BOOEY]

Shoulder Width overhand grip, knees bent, back parallel to ground. Make sure you're touching your abs, not your chest.

 

[InTraining]

Try a seated, mid-grip, cable row

For me it feels 150% better than a BB row

Yup....

I was doing the cable rows with the parallel grip and it was OK....I switched to using the straight bar and it feels so much more natural

Many might say "you NEED the BB row etc...cables aren't as good" but if you are deadlifting or doing rack deadlifts I don't think there is much of a problem

 

[bignate73]

I could never feel BB rows very well and my erectors always gave out early on in the set. Lately I've been doing T-Bar rows and I absolutely love them. My lats are looking wider too.

if your erectors are giving out then you know what needs to be worked...

are you doing your Tbars with a chest supported machine? if not, there should be no difference from that and a bb row.

 

[Illuminati]

i do my Bar Rows a little different than Booey. i like to take an underhand grip, just about shoulder width apart. keep the knees slightly bent, and the upper body at a 45 from the floor. then i row it up, keeping my elbows tight to the body, and bring the bar just below the chest.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

heres some video..im sure some would disagree with this technique ( im thinking of someon specific but i wont name names lol) however this is what will build a strong back as well as a thick one..i really feel there is no substitute for BB rows cable rows will not build a strong deadlift or give you that thickness/strength people seek..am i saying dont do cable rows no..ronnie coleman ( sick back) has them in his routine but are they the foundation no they are an accessory..just my 02

http://www.joeskopec.com/joeskopecbent.mpg

 

[Illuminati]

heres some video..im sure some would disagree with this technique ( im thinking of someon specific but i wont name names lol) however this is what will build a strong back as well as a thick one..i really feel there is no substitute for BB rows cable rows will not build a strong deadlift or give you that thickness/strength people seek..am i saying dont do cable rows no..ronnie coleman ( sick back) has them in his routine but are they the foundation no they are an accessory..just my 02

http://www.joeskopec.com/joeskopecbent.mpg

who...me? i dont disagree with it. i was just giving my way of doing them. we all do things differently. its just what works better for me.

 

[Illuminati]

heres some video..im sure some would disagree with this technique ( im thinking of someon specific but i wont name names lol) however this is what will build a strong back as well as a thick one..i really feel there is no substitute for BB rows cable rows will not build a strong deadlift or give you that thickness/strength people seek..am i saying dont do cable rows no..ronnie coleman ( sick back) has them in his routine but are they the foundation no they are an accessory..just my 02

http://www.joeskopec.com/joeskopecbent.mpg

who...me? (lol) i dont disagree with it. i was just giving my way of doing them. we all do things differently. its just what works better for me.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

who...me? (lol) i dont disagree with it. i was just giving my way of doing them. we all do things differently. its just what works better for me.

no not you lol..they havent posted in this thread lol

 

[wtlftr]

I didn't reaqd the other posts. I suggest. Proper form. Use as heavey as weight as possible. Squeeze the muscle, do not jerk the weight. Hold at the top of the rep. Lower slow. Use wraps only on occasion.

 

[ChinkNasty]

thanks for the help guys...the thing with cable rows is I just dont feel like I'm working my back as hard as I would with BB rows...sometimes with a bb row I almost feel like its turning into a vertical row and targeting my shoulders..I do both deads and t-bar rows and I would never trade deads in for anything but I can do a ton more weight on a chest supported t-bar row than I can with a bb row...just confused and contemplating ditching them

thanks again
CN

 

[anthrax]

if your erectors are giving out then you know what needs to be worked...

GMs ?

 

[anthrax]

if your erectors are giving out then you know what needs to be worked...

GMs ?

 

[cwick0]

alright fellas, I've been doing these for a while but I've never really felt like I've reaped the benefits that al ot of guys on this board talk about. I know lotta guys here love the BB rows and I've forced myself to do them despite not liking them to much/don't really feel it that much while I 'm doing them.
What kind of stance and grip do you guys use? narrow? wide? pronated/supinated? stiff legged and bent over? help out a bro

peace,
CN

wide-grip palms facing towards you=close stance with your feet.
closer-grip (around shoulder width or just a hair wider) palms away=normal stance.
KNEES BENT and no bending your back, sqaut and hold your back straight and you will be golden.

 

[ChinkNasty]

aight wick, gonna give it another run next back day

thanks for all the replies

cn

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Debaser posted a good guide on how to do rows. Squeeze the shoulder bladers together, don't worry about pulling the bar until it touches your stomach. Just pull back your elbows and squeeze the upper back muscles together until you can't pull them together anymore.

 

[supreme]

Bro:

Definately keep the BB row, it's a great foundational exercise that teaches you how stabilize your body when pulling a weight and has a very effective transfer into daily life & sports.

To protect your back & spine you need to bend your knees like a shortstop - this puts tension on your ITB and allows the glutes to act as large anchor stabilizing your pelvis agianst the pull of the lats. Your forward lean should be between 45 & 60 degrees, if you lean further forward you increase pressure in the lumbar discs. You need to contract your TVA to protect the lumbar spine (DO NOT wear a belt!). Keep your head down not arched up or back and keep the normal curve in low back - DO NOT allow your pelvis to rotate posteriorly and flatten your low back or you increase the risk of a disc herniation. If you want to hit the lats with your rows use an underhand grip that keeps your elbows next to your body and row to your lower abdominal area. Make sure you can handle the weight with full control & ROM or your will cheat it up (the usual spastic half row half deadlift combo with your torso jerking upward - what dorks & meatheads consider good form) Cheating it up decreases lat involvement, destroys your ROM and overworks your scapularhumeral muscles. Your scapular adductors & scapular humeral muscles should reach maximum contraction at the same time. Go as heavy as you can WITH good form. If your erectors tire first follow Nate's advice!

Later!

S

 

[bignate73]

GMs ?

i was looking for more general terms...

erectors.

how you train em is individual.

 

[bignate73]

just as an add on to supreme's post.

when he says "head down" it doesnt mean "head forward". keep your chin tucked and look in the direction that your chest is facing. if you drop your head on a row, 7 out of 10 times you'll get a twinge up your neck and wont do it again. quickest way to pull a cervical spine extensor. lengthen them extremely and then contract your upper back. i've done it more times than i can count, just because i got sloppy.

 

[supreme]

Yep Nate is right, what I should have said was head in neutral I.E. not protrouding forward or rotated back. To help keep your head in neutral especiallyif you have weak cervical flexors; swallow and when your tongue goes to the roof of your mouth, apply pressure & keep it there, breathe through your nose. Pushing your tongue to the roof of your mouth closes the anterior flexor chain & activiates your deep cervical flexors (infra & suprahyoids) these muscles keep your head in axial alignmnet and prevent it from dropping forward or rotating backwards. (great during squats, deads and especially any crunch type movements)

S

 

[anthrax]

In plain English does that mean that if you're doing BB rows in front of a mirror, you can't look at your reflexion but to the floor, 2 metres in front of you ?

 

[Illuminati]

Yep Nate is right, what I should have said was head in neutral I.E. not protrouding forward or rotated back. To help keep your head in neutral especiallyif you have weak cervical flexors; swallow and when your tongue goes to the roof of your mouth, apply pressure & keep it there, breathe through your nose. Pushing your tongue to the roof of your mouth closes the anterior flexor chain & activiates your deep cervical flexors (infra & suprahyoids) these muscles keep your head in axial alignmnet and prevent it from dropping forward or rotating backwards. (great during squats, deads and especially any crunch type movements)

S

huh? too many technical words. can you break this down into something we can understand?

 

[ChinkNasty]

ok, thanks supreme/nate...so you guys do do underhanded rows? I always feel like I can cheat too much with bis/shoulders when doing this movement like so...

CN

 

[supreme]

Well if you feel your cheating, you probably are. The weight should come up smoothly, and your body should not jerk or spasm like you have the hiccups. This ususally indicates that you are prematurely contracting your scapular retractors and not getting full ROM. When you do it right the bar should hit your lower abdomen at the same time you reach complete contraction of your back muscles. If the bar stops before the abdomen you are overusing scapular humeral muscles and decreasing the ROM of your scapular adductors by training them in a shortened position. You need to lighten the weight for a few workouts until form improves and possibly do some flexibilty work if you have shortened your muscles.

Underhand hits more of the lats & the Bi's (no way to eliminate the bi's) and a prone (overhand) grip works more of your scapular adductors. The higher up the body you pull the bar to and the more the elbows flare out, the more of your upper back you are working.

Anthrax, you are right on where to look during the exercise.

Sorry if it sounds technical but it is and thats the way I learned it. Bascially you have to stabilize your core by pulling in your abdominal wall (NO BELTS!) and push your tongue to the roof of your mouth to turn on the deep muscles in your neck to stop your head from dropping forward or rotating up & back - neither is good for your cervical spine. These neck muscles are not activated unless the tongue can't move (closed anatomical chain) They are normally in an open chain so you can speak & eat.

S

 

[bignate73]

ok, thanks supreme/nate...so you guys do do underhanded rows? I always feel like I can cheat too much with bis/shoulders when doing this movement like so...

CN

i dont do underhand rows, ive always heard bad stories about biceps getting injured with them. plus it puts some serious torque on my wrists. i always keep it overhand and just vary the width. but i do bb rows quite regularly.

 

[ChinkNasty]

ok...so much shit to process...haha ill give it a run on next back day

thanks yall

peace,
CN

 

[JKurz1]

I use heavy dbell rows with much better results......