Barbell Rows

[sirskeletron]

Are you suppose to do these over handed or under handed? I have been doing one set of each but it is mush easier for me to do it overhanded.. Underhanded just doesn't feel right

Thanks

 

[jnevin]

Either works for me. Underhanded gets my traps more, overhanded gets my lats/ rhomboids.

 

[KIAN]

Bent-over Barbell Rows are performed with an overhand grip. Bend slightly at the knees, lean your torso forwards, keep your head up and butt out. Use a wide grip to work the back and a narrower grip to work the lats. Draw the bar up and in towards your diaphragm. Remember to keep your back straight throughout the entire movement.

 

[JAV]

I try to do a few sets overhand and a few sets underhand...

I figure this will hit more muscle fibres...

I think Dorian Yates used to use the underhand grip alot if I am not mistaken.

-j

 

[anthrax]

Overhand grip
BB into the stomach
Arched back

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I am gonna start doing them with a modified overhand grip. I'm gonna use an ez-curl bar and grip it where you would doing skull crushers. I'll use 45lbs plates to keep the bar at the height I like it at so I can deweight between reps.

With the angled grip being similar in angle to the grip position when rowing on the water I should get a better pull from it. Regular overhand on a barbell just doesn't feel quite right.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Normally, they're done overhanded. To be honest, I don't think it makes too much of a difference. You can probably do more underhanded, but a difference in development will be, in the end, nominal.

 

[Smurfy]

ive done both but i prefer underhanded

 

[Mithrandir]

underhanded seems funny..bring right above belly button, any higher than that and it will start to work your front delts too much..also, try to keep 60 degrees or lower..any more than this and you may work your front delts too much.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

You're ideally supposed to try to remain at a 90 degree angle. It's the optimal way to recruit the lats.

 

[musketeer]

Sorry to diagree with almost every body (but not really!)

The 60 degree supinated (curl grip) barbell row is much better at stimulating the back beacuse it takes tension off the lower back and trasfers it to the traps and lats AND because it allows the lifter to pull more weight.

The entire trapezius can contract when a 60 degree lean is employed.

The curl grip allows for a greater stretch of the lats and a fuller contraction at the top.

90 degree rows (supinated or pronated grip) are much more of a rear delt movement and require the lifter to experimence a ton of force on their lower back in order to stimulate the upper back.

The guy with the best back of all time modified the row to look like this (follow the Dorian Link below to see his training routine).

 

[Mithrandir]

forum is down musk.

 

[H_T_]

Dorian made those under-handed rows so popular. it real easy to shift around during those, so you won't be hitting your back as much as you think. oh yeah, make sure you sqeeeeeeeeze.

 

[bigdho]

Just remember that there is a lot of bio machanics involved. Just feel your way through it and maintain the mind muscle connection and youll be fine.

 

[musketeer]

forum is down musk.

Forum did not seem to take off well!

Look here for his advice on training:

http://dorianyates.net/workout1.html

 

[CrayonOfDoom2]

I prefer over-hand rows with a barbell because it hits my lower traps (among other muscles) alot better and doesn't work on my lats as much as it does with the under-hand grip.

Regardless if some people think this exercise should be lat specific, I don't feel the same

P.S. There is an article about the different grips on this exercise in Muscle & Fitness this month, I saw it at the grocery store.

 

[curgeo]

I don't think madcow2 will mind me posting this:

Re: BB Rows (Madcow)

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Ok - think about how the body is meant to perform a rowing motion - like a rowboat or better yet a crew shell since this puppy is made for speed and setup most advantageously for each rower. They are pulling directly into themselves, meaning that they are perpendicular to the resistence (their torso for the most part is at 90 degrees to the plane of water which serves as the resistence). I will throw in the caveate that the torso is not stationary during the row and it is very much a full body pull but you do get the point. Your back's primary rowing power is directly back. This allows the lats to be most heavily activated throughout the range of motion.

Translating that motion into weights, the resistence for a weight is gravity which is on a vertical plane contrary to water's horizontal plane - both are the respective sources of resistence. Where the rower was upright at 90 degrees to the horizontal resistence, the weightlifter's resistence is now vertical - so 90 degrees to vertical means your back is horizontal to the floor.

So that's the essence of where the 90 degrees comes from.

Moving beyond that, rowing is a fairly fundemental motion and with significant weight it is damn hard to stay perfectly still and I'd venture a bit unnatural - you will find there are more dynamic methods of rowing with a barbell out there but this is the base (see the Johnsmith182 sticky at meso's training board linked here if you are curious - excellent read by the way - best 20 minutes you will spend: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=12). So anyway, you tend to pull back a bit with heavy weight anyway and that is how rows should be done heavy and explosive. You should be accelerating that bar into your body. So someone starting at 90 degrees generally ends up cheating back just a bit and that's okay.

In addition, a lot of guys lack the flexability to keep their back flat and perform the exercise as they get near the 90 degree point. In that case you shoot for 90 degrees but you go to where your body is comfortable.

The reason why I stress it is because we have all seen the dochebags in the gym standing almost vertical and rowing through a minute range of motion. This is crap. It doesn't allow for proper activation of the lats since you aren't pulling in but up, the range of motion is drastically reduced, and on top of that you wind up looking like a moron so there's really nothing good to come of it.

As for starting the motion at 45 degrees, I can't say it's optimal unless you can't get any lower (in which case flexability work or core strengthening would be my suggestion depending on the issue causing this). If you start at 45 degrees and row hard, you'll find yourself above 45 degrees at peak contraction and possibly significantly. Your range of motion is cut, your lats aren't getting proper activation because you are no longer pulling in but pulling up and you will end up relying on other muscles to generate the momentum (and that necessitates further straightening of the back).

So anyway, it's a soft rule when I say 90 degrees. I am fairly flexible and I can get close but not a full 90 (you see this in the goodmorning too - everyone has a different range of motion). That said, the soft rule is meant to provide the necessary margin to correctly perform the exercise. There is a hard rule right behind it saying that you absolutely must come as close as you are able to the 90 degrees. Significant deviation compromises the exercise.

Huge reply but it's better to give someone the full explanation. Give it some thought and do some rowing in the gym the next time - performing the motion makes it crystal clear. Be sure to work on accelerating the rep. A rower accelerates the oar through the water working harder and harder throughout the range of the stroke. He doesn't stop pulling hard once he gets the oar moving. This is critical to rowing success in the gym but watch your rib cage on the light ones.

 

[Madcow2]

BTW - extensive EMG work has been done on various versions of rows and how they affect lat recruitment. 90 degree, overhand, explosive, and from the floor won out consistently accross a broad range of athletes. It may allow you to use more weight standing more upright but it won't transfer to the lats and if you are going to pull upright hard you might as well power shrug, clean, or deadlift and use real weight rather than what you can hump using a butchered row. As far as Dorian's success with the underhand - Arnold was a great BBer but most of the people quoting his training encyclopedia are 100% USDA dogshit so it's really best to look at what consistently works best for people not juiced to the gills than a single person with excellent genetics and a high tolerance for test.

BTW: Here is excerpt written on the more explosive rowing version. I did not write this but if comes from a very knowedgable source.

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Rows: Well, the best way to do them is to start with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows.

This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curls…you always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak.

The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast. I have trained many people who could do this exercise with 350 or more lbs. I myself have done reps with 425, Ed Coan, who also knows how to do them properly, has done reps with over 500lbs without his back ever coming above parallel with the ground. That is stronger than Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman, by the way.

I did rows with Coleman once, actually, and I was far stronger than he was. He could not do more than 350lbs strictly although he could do over 500lbs by standing almost all the way up at the completion of each rep. Ed Coan is probably the strongest person on these, although one power-lifter I trained did manage 525 for a double done strictly.

Rows look at an anatomy chart. if the scapula and upper arms are held in a constant position, shortening of the lats WILL result in arching of the middle and upper back. i AM NOT saying that the lats are primarily responsible for upper back flexion... what i am saying is that they can assist in this.

i also HAVE done EMG work on various different rowing techniques... and there is not doubt that rows performed as i describe them will activate the lats more completely than done any other way i have ever seen. i have done EMG work on a large quantity of people for rows... and ive always found that these kind of rows activate the lats most completely. and besides, even if you dont buy the fact that they activate the lats better, hell, you can always be content with the fact that your getting an erector workout.

 

[CrayonOfDoom2]

BTW - extensive EMG work has been done on various versions of rows and how they affect lat recruitment. 90 degree, overhand, explosive, and from the floor won out consistently accross a broad range of athletes. It may allow you to use more weight standing more upright but it won't transfer to the lats and if you are going to pull upright hard you might as well power shrug, clean, or deadlift and use real weight rather than what you can hump using a butchered row. As far as Dorian's success with the underhand - Arnold was a great BBer but most of the people quoting his training encyclopedia are 100% USDA dogshit so it's really best to look at what consistently works best for people not juiced to the gills than a single person with excellent genetics and a high tolerance for test.

This is the best perspective I've seen on a lift in ages I believe.

Great work Cow!!