Back/Deadlifting advice

[iggy]

For years i've always wanted a huge back. Franco Columbu, Ronnie Coleman, and Lee Haney taught me that every great bodybuilder needs massive width and thickness in their backs. My personal trainer buddy from my gym helped me with my back routine, but it still seems incomplete. I usually start off with chins or lat pulldowns. Then i will alternate or superset behind the neck lat pulldowns or wide grip chins. Then seated pully rows, and one armed dumbell rows, hypers, or t-bar rows, then deadlifts. . . .

The problem with me is i have no idea how to train the deadlift for strength.
My deadlift never seems to get stronger
Is it safe to deadlift 2x3 times a week?
i know it takes the lower back about 95 hours to fully recover
for two years i've been trying to make this lift stronger
i'm setting up a new 5x5 and wondered how i should incorporate the deadlift into the new program.

one more thing. . . .
is it better to deadlift until you fail or to keep the reps low, at like 5-7?
heres what ive been stuck at for two years
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x5
315x3

my back is my weakest link, but i have 3 years of powercleaning and squatting religously under my belt
appreciate feedback

 

[jstarr37]

Try stronglifts.com 5x5. You deadlift once a week and squat twice. I did phillipi coan but it was just too much and i would peak, tweak me back a lose alot of gains. I was stuck at 315 single for a long time. Now i can do 415 x 5 easy with a 450 single after a couple of weeks build up. Im 43 years old, not from an athletic backround. 450 is X2 bodywieght for me. I understand the power lifters at westside are not in imminent threat of my beating them
All high rep deadlifts do to me is build to a muscle strain (it might be my age though)

 

[Ceros]

The best thing that I've found, for strength on deads, is to build each part of the dead. Like do some weeks with lighter weight on extended deads by standing on some 45's or even some 100's, then you can build that first getting it off the ground part, also building the quads and hams will help immensely on this part. Then slowly transition to some rack pulls, and make them a little higher each week. Everyone is different in how they plan that. But yeah works great. For me, I had some time where I couldn't even get 405 off the ground more that 2 inches. Did 4 weeks of some deads while standing on plates, I could pull up 405 at least 7 reps. Cause the back was my stronger part. Just figure out your weak part and train it.

 

[ceo]

Where do you feel your deads? I mostly feel them in my quads, hams, glutes, and through my lower-mid back. I feel them a lot less in my upper back.

 

[GUARDIAN]

where are u stuck at in the movement? bottom half? top half?

have u tried heavy high rack pulls?

 

[iggy]

never heard anything about rack pulls. they look interesting though. what muscles do they work? i feel deadlifts in my quads hams glutes and lower back predominately. i get stuck when going back down and up at 315 at the bottom half.

 

[Ceros]

Okay I just posted about rack pulls and explained them...If you're stuck at the bottom half then you need to do some pulls while standing on something, I said that...

 

[GUARDIAN]

never heard anything about rack pulls. they look interesting though. what muscles do they work? i feel deadlifts in my quads hams glutes and lower back predominately. i get stuck when going back down and up at 315 at the bottom half.

they work lower back. u basically r lifting the top 1/2 or more of the deadlift. u r not lifting off the floor. u have it set up in the power rack. pin placement is up to u.

 

[ceo]

I don't see any bent over rows in your routine either. Those are good for upper back thickness.

 

[iggy]

yeah, never really did any rows besides seated low pulley rows or dumbell lateral rows. power cleaned/squatted/deadlifted heavy three days a week for a good 16 months though a couple years ago during football. but yeah i'm going incorporate some rack pulls and barbell bent over rows into my back routine

 

[Blane]

You may like to start your workout with the deadlift. It is such a compound movement.

Then move into the exercises that isolate. If you want to add poundage to your deadlift, make it the priority focus of back day. Are you sumo, conventional?

Your lower back should never hurt after you pull. if it does, lower the weight and work form.

hope this helped.

For years i've always wanted a huge back. Franco Columbu, Ronnie Coleman, and Lee Haney taught me that every great bodybuilder needs massive width and thickness in their backs. My personal trainer buddy from my gym helped me with my back routine, but it still seems incomplete. I usually start off with chins or lat pulldowns. Then i will alternate or superset behind the neck lat pulldowns or wide grip chins. Then seated pully rows, and one armed dumbell rows, hypers, or t-bar rows, then deadlifts. . . .

The problem with me is i have no idea how to train the deadlift for strength.
My deadlift never seems to get stronger
Is it safe to deadlift 2x3 times a week?
i know it takes the lower back about 95 hours to fully recover
for two years i've been trying to make this lift stronger
i'm setting up a new 5x5 and wondered how i should incorporate the deadlift into the new program.

one more thing. . . .
is it better to deadlift until you fail or to keep the reps low, at like 5-7?
heres what ive been stuck at for two years
135x5
185x5
225x5
275x5
315x3

my back is my weakest link, but i have 3 years of powercleaning and squatting religously under my belt
appreciate feedback

 

[ceo]

I love deads, but I need more upper back thickness, and deads aren't giving me too much of that. I got some pretty decent erector spinae though!

 

[Scotsman]

I love deads, but I need more upper back thickness, and deads aren't giving me too much of that. I got some pretty decent erector spinae though!

Rack pulls, heavy rows, heavy high rows.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[1999TL]

Hijack: I seem to be losing the the arch in my back when the weight gives heavy. It seems as though i'm using more of my lower back when the weight gets up(only 275 for me). What is the problem in this? Are my legs not strong enough to push up from the floor?

I'm currently repping with only 225(a little past parallel) on squats in the 6-8 rep range. I usually do Deads for 4-6 reps.

 

[Scotsman]

Hijack: I seem to be losing the the arch in my back when the weight gives heavy. It seems as though i'm using more of my lower back when the weight gets up(only 275 for me). What is the problem in this? Are my legs not strong enough to push up from the floor?

I'm currently repping with only 225(a little past parallel) on squats in the 6-8 rep range. I usually do Deads for 4-6 reps.

If you are going to deadlift heavy especially if you pull conventional your back is going to round. This is ok as long as you maintain your air and keep tight during the pull. At the top when you lock out you should regain the arch. I can keep an arch through maybe 405 but after that I'm rounded slightly from the get go.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[1999TL]

If you are going to deadlift heavy especially if you pull conventional your back is going to round. This is ok as long as you maintain your air and keep tight during the pull. At the top when you lock out you should regain the arch. I can keep an arch through maybe 405 but after that I'm rounded slightly from the get go.

Cheers,
Scotsman

AHHH. Makes me feel better. I Guess I can move up i weight then. I been doing that weight b/c I've been waiting to be able to do it with and arched back.

 

[captainahole]

Personally. I like to warm up with 3 sets of barbell bent over rows.
135x12
225x10
315x6

I find it helps to warm up the back and leg muscles. Then go heavy on deads.
Like
405 x 7
495 x4
455 x 5
405 x 6 for 2 sets

usually once a month I go for max.

that usually gets a great pump and whips me out pretty good.
Then pulley rows for 3 sets and pull downs for 3 sets. I'm usually toast after that.

 

[iggy]

tomorrow's my back day captain, i might try your routine

 

[coolcolj]

get your full squats up and your deadlift will go up...

 

[ceo]

Rack pulls, heavy rows, heavy high rows.

Cheers,
Scotsman

Yep! I've switched things up a bit already, but thanks! The heavy high rows I'm hoping will hit it.

 

[iggy]

Today i did this for deadlifts
135x12, 175x10, 225x8, 275x6, 315x3. . . .
i did three sets of barbell rows, and 3 sets of seated low pulley rows followed by wide grip pulldowns.
Are the sets i did legit for a back day?

 

[TheOak84]

2 years?

 

[Scotsman]

Today i did this for deadlifts
135x12, 175x10, 225x8, 275x6, 315x3. . . .
i did three sets of barbell rows, and 3 sets of seated low pulley rows followed by wide grip pulldowns.
Are the sets i did legit for a back day?

Looks ok, how do you feel after? Do you feel you worked hard enough? Don't get too caught up in the numbers and especially don't compare numbers with others. What's good for you is all that is important and that you push yourself to try and make progress.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[iggy]

my leg biceps are dead, and i feel it a little in my middle back and glutes. the only problem is encountered was i was too fatigued after deadlifting i could barely do lat pulldowns. also my row form was horrible and i have to get better at rows.

 

[enigma4dub]

think about training exercises instead of body parts. currently mine are sldl, weighted pull ups, pendlay rows and power cleans. i have two pull days. Tues and Thurs. i split them up and train them progressively over several weeks. I'm a big fan of free weight compound movement for strength and size. i haven't used a cable of any sort in years. so really the point is instead of throwing everything and the kitchen sink at your back and hitting it from all different types of angles do as prescribed above.


edit: wow this is post #420 cheers!!

 

[iggy]

what are pendlay rows? i've heard of them before. do you have a video example of them on youtube or something?

 

[deathdroprob]

Stay away from the behind the neck pulls. Far away, as far away as you can, run if you must...

For width go crazy with Pullups/downs, most upright back excersises add width and any bent over ad thickness (So I here). Just do as many differnt variations of Pullup/downs as you can and put a few sets to each along with some rows and racked deads and youll be sweet and dont forget the shrugs.

 

[drsketch]

You ever try adding a chip(5lb) to the bar every 1 or 2 weeks?

 

[Azinine]

what are pendlay rows? i've heard of them before. do you have a video example of them on youtube or something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44LJqZX5aIY&NR=1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vYeCh2Anpw8

 

[iggy]

you have a valid point sketch.
one more thing
how do pendlay rows differ from regular rows?

 

[Blane]

Today i did this for deadlifts
135x12, 175x10, 225x8, 275x6, 315x3. . . .
i did three sets of barbell rows, and 3 sets of seated low pulley rows followed by wide grip pulldowns.
Are the sets i did legit for a back day?

Its good you pulled early in your workout, as opposed to last.

if you want to increase your DL poundage in a safe way. Try this:

135X8, 175X6, 225X3, 275X1, 315x5, 315x5, 315x5

The first 4 sets should not work you. they sould simply get you ready for the working sets. In this case the 315x5.

Since you arent working as hard during your presets. You should be able to increase the poundage and reps safely.

if 315 is too much right now go to 300X5. in three weeks you will be at 315x5. With this method you will be able to add 5 lbs each week for a while.