"Assisted" Vs. Natural Training

[Thaibox]

I think all of us mis-interpreted each other.

Yeah

It became an argument of degree not concept. With the exception of a couple people with no clue as to what they're saying, we all seem to agree. It was just a poorly understood premise.

 

[vinylgroover]

revex, first let me say that what you just said is absolutely correct. I am not arguing this at all. I am saying that vinylgroover is using such extremes that its silly. Vinylgroover is saying that anyone can use gear and grow like mad with totally crappy training. That's pure BS.

Also, its not only me...its my training buddies, the amateur and pro competitors and fighters I have lifted and trained with over the years, as well as several vets on this board that have supported my opinion as well.

Again, you're right. Vinylgroover is not.

I'm using extreme's.....what a joke. It's you who's using extreme's by claiming that you and your buddy's won't grow on steroids......well duh, after you've already put on 40 pounds of mass what do you expect.

I'm talking about the other 95% of cases.

Anecdotal evidence is all i have, but it's pretty fucking solid evidence over 10 years.

I be you right now, that if i was to go on a cycle without changing anything to do with my routine or diet i would look like an animal after my first cycle in comparison to what i lked like before that cycle.Who's supplying the extra muscle, me or the steroids?

 

[slobberknocker]

I love you guys.

 

[IronLion]

vg youre wrong 100 percent.....why don't you do a cycle and prove your point....btw on average the guys on the anabolic side who sport a gram a week look like they have been training about 2 years....why is that?



btw thaibox i have been around enough guys using gram plus that look like shit compared to me natural to know that you are completely right.....

 

[revexrevex]

Its interesting to observe how 180 lb guys do cycles and get to 200.. but their mass has no shape, no density, no seasoned look, even if their body fat is low. I 5000% agree that you need a solid natural base before you start, that's why I am holding back now. Over here when I am, testestorone cyp and sus are like orange juice, oyu can buy them off of any corner lol, obviously im speaking figuratevely, But anyway I want to wait until I get to 550 deadlift, 335 bench, and 400 squat, and then hit it really hard! This way I will have the natural base which will be further optimized

 

[sk*]

Its interesting to observe how 180 lb guys do cycles and get to 200.. but their mass has no shape, no density, no seasoned look, even if their body fat is low. I 5000% agree that you need a solid natural base before you start, that's why I am holding back now. Over here when I am, testestorone cyp and sus are like orange juice, oyu can buy them off of any corner lol, obviously im speaking figuratevely, But anyway I want to wait until I get to 550 deadlift, 335 bench, and 400 squat, and then hit it really hard! This way I will have the natural base which will be further optimized

Yea, I know what you mean about the density thing, but I think it's because they usually do isolation movements and not so much squats or deadlifts ...

It usually takes a good 2-3years for the average guy to start squatting. Ofcourse if you have a coach or read online then you won't be like this, but from my experience there aren't that many guys squatting, deadlifting, or doing bb rows ...

-sk

 

[revexrevex]

The exercises definetely play a huge role in the development. But there are other important things, and that thing is time. You can train half assed for 10 years, and as long as you dont overtrain you will have muscle on you. Those kids who only trained for 2 years and juice, they simply didnt have the oportunity to go through powerlifting phases, heavy triples, singles and power movements to have the kind of body that a person who put time into his/her body with proper eating and heavy training. When the person works hard naturally and the enhances himself with steroids they will explode. When a person works half assed naturally, the addition of steroids will make them grow as well, but not to a point of a person who put time, and experience into his body

 

[IronLion]

The exercises definetely play a huge role in the development. But there are other important things, and that thing is time. You can train half assed for 10 years, and as long as you dont overtrain you will have muscle on you. Those kids who only trained for 2 years and juice, they simply didnt have the oportunity to go through powerlifting phases, heavy triples, singles and power movements to have the kind of body that a person who put time into his/her body with proper eating and heavy training. When the person works hard naturally and the enhances himself with steroids they will explode. When a person works half assed naturally, the addition of steroids will make them grow as well, but not to a point of a person who put time, and experience into his body

well said

 

[sk*]

The exercises definetely play a huge role in the development. But there are other important things, and that thing is time. You can train half assed for 10 years, and as long as you dont overtrain you will have muscle on you. Those kids who only trained for 2 years and juice, they simply didnt have the oportunity to go through powerlifting phases, heavy triples, singles and power movements to have the kind of body that a person who put time into his/her body with proper eating and heavy training. When the person works hard naturally and the enhances himself with steroids they will explode. When a person works half assed naturally, the addition of steroids will make them grow as well, but not to a point of a person who put time, and experience into his body

I would mostly agree ...

-sk

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

Damn, this was popular. What i basically wanted to get across with my "fictional" characters is that the yare both total douche bags. The mind sets that they both exhibit are a trap that needs to be avoided. Those who think the only way to grow is AAS are ignorant or inexperienced and afraid of hard work, don't knowhow to eat or don't want to, ot are 14 years old and know no better, and those who think AAS do nothing and feel they will gain their whole lives naturally are fools as well. I have made great natural gains before using, but look at it this way.To the guys and girls who are making gains naturally and feel no need to ever use, look at it this way.......If you keep gaining at the rate you are now for the next 10 years you'd have 800lb benches, 1200lb squats, 1000lb deadlifts.....do you see what I mean?very serious trainer will gain naturally, but it does stop.....

I am not persuading people to use drugs, I am just trying to get across that everyone hits a wall, it may not be a total wall, I mean you might put 5lbs on a lift per year, but what the fuck is that?? I have a lot of admiration for natural trainers who eat and work their asses off, if you keep gaining at the rates you are now for the rest of your lives, you will prove me to be an asshole I guess. But I think people totally 1,000% percent against AAS due to the fatc that they are exploding naturally will see my point once the honeymoon is over and they are faced with a big, fat brick wall.

As for VG, I understand what you are trying to say, but I think everyone got pissed because you were off the point of the post. I think the way you worded what you said and the context you said it in got people riled up, but I do know where you were trying to go, it was just off the point of the post.