Ashcroft is officially a nut

[Island Son]

Taken from the British Guardian newspaper . Anointed with cooking oil????


Staff cry poetic injustice as singing Ashcroft introduces patriot games
Julian Borger in Washington
Monday March 4, 2002
The Guardian

Since John Ashcroft became US attorney general last year, workers at the department of justice have become accustomed to his daily prayer meetings, but some are now drawing the line at having to sing patriotic songs penned by their idiosyncratic boss.
Mr Ashcroft, a devout Christian and a grittily determined singer, went public with one of his works last month, when he surprised an audience at a North Carolina seminary with a rendition of Let the Eagle Soar, a tribute to America's virtues, which continues: "Like she's never soared before, from rocky coast to golden shore, let the mighty eagle soar," and so on for four minutes.

The performance (which can be seen and heard at http://cnn.com/video/us/2002/02/25/ashcroft.sings.wbtv.med.html ) was accompanied only by taped music, but Mr Ashcroft's staff are complaining that printed versions of the song are being distributed at meetings so that they will be able to join in.

When asked why she opposed the workplace singalong, one of the department's lawyers said: "Have you heard the song? It really sucks."

[ more ]

This is not the first time Mr Ashcroft's subordinates have realised that this attorney general is unlike ordinary politicians. Each time he has been sworn in to political office, he is anointed with cooking oil (in the manner of King David, as he points out in his memoirs Lessons from a Father to His Son).

 

[huntmaster]

I knew that the patriotism that was re-kindled after sept. 11 would die off-----but I didnt think it would happen this quick.

The man is proud of America and our heritage.

He is a strong leader and he stands up for what he believes in.

He is a man of standards and morals.

We Should all be proud to have such a man of great character as a leader in America in such a time as this.

 

[Frackal]

Edited for fairness, I dont feel I know enough about the man to truly make a judgement about him.

 

[huntmaster]

I am sorry that you feel that way, Frak

 

[Frackal]

Well I will say I dislike his fundamentalism, but I try to be as open-minded and fair as possible therefore my post was premature because I do not really know enough about him to form an opinion, though I suspect I might be right. I would love nothing more than to see a man of strong morality in his position, but someone who covers a statue like that makes me think 'religious zealot' and religious zealots are dangerous, we have to look no further than the mid-east to see that.

Also, as sad as it is, my experience with christians, catholics, mormons and others is how I stated, that they are normally that religion for reasons other than their personal feelings. I find it disappointing because true christians such as my grandmother who use it for good and pure reasons are usually wonderful people....

Also, huntmaster thank you for your cordial reply, that made me rethink my outburst.

 

[huntmaster]

Thats cool man--I have done the same thing more times than I would like to admit.

I know that there are a good many folks out there that have had bad experiences with proclaimed Christians. My faith is not based on any one but Jesus. I was introduced to Him through my dad but my relationship grows because of communion with Him.

I am by no means perfect and I know not one Christian/nonChristian who is. I just try to look at folks through the eyes of Christ---He died for us regardless of our feelings for Him.

I like Ashcroft because he is not ashamed of Christ--and his intentions are honest and ethical.

He is a man that will not be swayed by negative influences--he will stand firm on matters of right, and that is what we need now--b/c we are loosing any and all absolutes in our society.

 

[smallmovesal]

that behaviour reminds smacks of nutty regardless of what his beliefs are.

 

[huntmaster]

The man is willing to embarass himself infront of many by singing a song about pride in America.

This is the definition of Character.

 

[smallmovesal]

The man is willing to embarass himself infront of many by singing a song about pride in America.

This is the definition of Character.

or insanity.

it's totally unprofessional..

 

[huntmaster]

I guess the only thing more I can say to you on this is: To Each His/Her Own.

 

[smallmovesal]

I guess the only thing more I can say to you on this is: To Each His/Her Own.

fo' shizzle ma nizzle.

 

[Si|vio]

I thought this threat was going to be about the lead singer of the Verve...

 

[Y_lifter]

DIS IS A COLA-NUT.. HA, HA, HA

 

[aurelius]

t

 

[WODIN]

Ashcroft is a dangerous nutcase. He would be a joke if it were not for the position of power he holds.

 

[aurelius]

huntmaster The man is willing to embarass himself infront of many by singing a song about pride in America. That is the definition of character.

 

[the nature boy]

yeah I'd prefer that ashcroft keep his fundamentalist christian views out of the justice department. The dude is so conservative I'm surprised he hasn't made female employes put their hair up, wear ankle length dresses.... or even worse..... wear berkas.

 

[p0ink]

OH MY FUCKING GOD!!! someone in the government proud of their country and religion? what the fuck is the world coming to?

 

[smallmovesal]

pride:

loony:

 

[Prometheus]

I guess the only thing more I can say to you on this is: To Each His/Her Own.

Isn't that the point of the article, that he is NOT leaving his employees to their own?

If he wants to hop around in his living room, annointing himself with crisco and cursing the decadence of MTV, more power to him.

But when he spends the tax money I'm forced to give him to censor statues, and uses the power of his office to coerce people to sing songs of his choosing, it becomes tyrrany.

 

[chesty]

Yeah, but at least he wants us to be armed as citizens

 

[curling]

I can't believe the criticism on Ashcroft. I mean look who we had before Liberal Dyke that was as corrupt as the day was long. I much rather listen to some bad singing than listen to that butch. I mean look at the way she handled Waco that chick(or Pat) was a nut job that should have never been appointed.

 

[smallmovesal]

she isn't a lesbian, her neice is.

and let's face it, most politicians are nuts.

 

[the nature boy]

OH MY FUCKING GOD!!! someone in the government proud of their country and religion? what the fuck is the world coming to?

nothing wrong with being proud of their country, but keep religion out of it. because his religion aint the same as mine or maybe some of his employees. if he wants to further his religion, he can do it on his own time, not while on the job as a public servant.

 

[rushx79]

how come when i sing about my penis in public no one ever says i have character.

 

[The Dude]

I like what he can do professionally. He is better than a lot of the Attorney Generals of the past decade when just looking at the upholding the law. However, he certainly does have his quirks. Covering that statue deal was downright stupid. I just keep shaking my head when that thing comes up. It's art, but if you're that much of a freakin' prude, just move the lecturn. Wacky.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

John Ashcroft has called for (and received) the abrogation of more rights than any other AG ever. Yay! Less freedom. What a patriot, if you're in Iraq!

It is jerk-offs like this who get martial law imposed.

He should look into seoaration of church and state; beginning by shoving hsi prayer meetings directly up his ass. Would an Islamic fundamentalist in that office make you feel better? because there isn;t any difference.

Ashcroft should be removed - giving a wacko this much power is disgusting.

 

[huntmaster]

Prometheus--

Yeah---good spin.

You just took an act of Patriotism and tried to twist it into tyrany.

Are from UCLA?---or Cal Berkely

They didnt want the firemen to have Flags on their trucks---it might offend someone.

Yeah--this sounds more like the America I am used to---People just looking for a reason to pounce on an individual who stands for old-fashioned values.

Pounce all you want---the man is stronger than that--this is what makes him a man of integrity.

 

[huntmaster]

John Ashcroft has called for (and received) the abrogation of more rights than any other AG ever. Yay! Less freedom. What a patriot, if you're in Iraq!

It is jerk-offs like this who get martial law imposed.

He should look into seoaration of church and state; beginning by shoving hsi prayer meetings directly up his ass. Would an Islamic fundamentalist in that office make you feel better? because there isn;t any difference.

Ashcroft should be removed - giving a wacko this much power is disgusting.

Why do they pray before sessions in the congress???

it is because this is america and that is why we came here.

you need to realize where we came from---we must never forget where we came from.

 

[smallmovesal]

um the people who came to the us felt religiously persecuted... so they wanted to be able to practice whatever religion they were... so i would have to say that for ashcroft to be pushing his religion on his staffmates violates the very basis of the formation of the US...

 

[Frackal]

John Ashcroft has called for (and received) the abrogation of more rights than any other AG ever. Yay! Less freedom. What a patriot, if you're in Iraq!

It is jerk-offs like this who get martial law imposed.

He should look into seoaration of church and state; beginning by shoving hsi prayer meetings directly up his ass. Would an Islamic fundamentalist in that office make you feel better? because there isn;t any difference.

Ashcroft should be removed - giving a wacko this much power is disgusting.

I agree.

 

[huntmaster]

um the people who came to the us felt religiously persecuted... so they wanted to be able to practice whatever religion they were... so i would have to say that for ashcroft to be pushing his religion on his staffmates violates the very basis of the formation of the US...

thats right ---- they were not allowed to express their religious beliefes, so they came here.

and you are against him expressing his?

The article is not even about the prayer meetings --- it does not state that he forces people to pray.

but here we are trying to debate whether or not he can express his religious beliefes.

religious persecution once more.

should the senate be forced to stop praying at the start of every day as well????

Lets go ahead and hang the RED tapestry at the Capitol and give up all our liberties.

 

[smallmovesal]

my point is that church and state are supposed to be separate for a reason - so that the persection did not contnue and *private* citizens could practice his/her own religion and the state had no say in what it was... for captain insano (no offense to our beloved captain insano) to be oiling up his head and making his staff do whatever kooky religious practices he has is not exactly following the whole separation of church and state ideal.

to make a point, what if he was secretly a satanist and decided to make his staff cry hail satan and poke him in the ass with a pitchfork would you think that was cool too? ...or is it because he's practicng uberchristianity? would it still be cool if he were making them do buddhist chants or shave their heads like hari krishna? seriously.. the man as no right to be doing that on the job, especially to his staff.. leave it at home/church.

do you not see the hypocrisy in his actions?

 

[curling]

Ya'll are forgetting a very big positive about Ashcroft. Since he is a Christian he not only answers to man but to a higher power. And since he takes his commitment to Christ seriously, he will do a much better, moral and ethical job than his heathen liberal predecessor that had absolutely zero character.

Smalls bad analogy, Satan represents everything evil. The day we elect a Satanist knowingly to a high power position is the day when all the Christians will be gone and the world will have to deal with Satan himself. And since he hates humans, he ain't be that great of a leader.

 

[Island Son]

OK my thread headline was deliberately inflammatory to spark some discussion
But he shouldn't be doing this... more importantly he should know not to. Although I admire his show of devoutness and drumming up patriotism, it's also causing pressure on his staffers and harming his credibility. I'd feel uneasy bringing this up with my nobody boss, let alone saying no to an AG who's stepping over the line.
I can understand the prayers and song... but the cooking oil thing - WTF??

Good thing I didn't include the rumour he believes tabby cats are signs of the devil

 

[aurelius]

curling Ya'll are forgetting a very big positive about Ashcroft. Since he is a Christian he not only answers to man but to a higher power. And since he takes his commitment to Christ seriously, he will do a much better, moral and ethical job than his heathen liberal predecessor that had absolutely zero character.

ya´ll is like the "you" plural form of the South, right? Like vosotros?

As attorney general Ashcroft answers ultimately to the President and he to the people.

As a man he can answer to whoever he likes.

So people who "believe" in Christ will necessarily do a more ethical job? Also, you can´t know if he actually believes, you only know that he SAYS he believes. Can you tell the difference?

 

[the nature boy]

So people who "believe" in Christ will necessarily do a more ethical job? Also, you can´t know if he actually believes, you only know that he SAYS he believes. Can you tell the difference?

true.

But in this case this guy is very fundamantalist Christian. There was a statue in home state with exposed breasts that he had covered up. I'm surprised he didn't put a veil on the statue to cover the whole thing.

 

[alexiarenee]

Edited for fairness, I dont feel I know enough about the man to truly make a judgement about him.

I think he's nuts and shouldn't try to push his beleifs about ANYTHING (porn, abortion,patriotism, RELIGION) on any of us...which is all he has done since day 1.

 

[alexiarenee]

or insanity.

it's totally unprofessional..

True...

 

[aurelius]

i

 

[aurelius]

But in this case this guy is very fundamantalist Christian. There was a statue in home state with exposed breasts that he had covered up. I'm surprised he didn't put a veil on the statue to cover the whole thing.

Yes. They showed that on the news over here. They thought it was hilarious... I was thoroughly embarrassed.

 

[BigPhysicsBastard]

He's a nut for sure.....but he's probably better than what we had before. I am wary of him though, I think he's "potentially" dangerous. People of his type of religious fundamentalism have a hard time keeping it in the bag......and I'm not talking about some silly little songs or prayers. I just don't trust them, and I don't like that they feel that all those that don't share their fundamentalism are "damned" and that they need to do everything in their power to "save us". The fact that he answers to "his" higher power is what worries me. No matter what anyone say's, the highest power in the land is the United States constitution. This country was founded on that. Yes the people who penned it were religious, but they had enough sense to keep their own beleifs out of it. Those who perport to answer to a higher power use that as an excuse to try to circumvent the constitution. That's a no-no. Abortion is the most prime example of this. If you're religious and don't beleive in abortion, don't have one, try to convince people it's wrong.......but don't dare try to "force" that decision on others who don't share your views. That's what this country was founded on. I don't like abortion, but I won't...and most importantly "can't" tell a woman what to do with her body. She has to live with her decision, as do all of us live with ours. The constitution provides us basic human rights which NO ONE has the right to abrogate no matter what they beleive in, but past that all of us choose our own way and we have to live with those decisions. It's not someone else's place to tell us how to live if what we're doing doesn't abrogate someone else's basic rights. And I fully realize that there are alot of laws in this country which don't adhere to that principle.....ie it being illegal for us to use gear, smoke pot etc....

 

[curling]

So people who "believe" in Christ will necessarily do a more ethical job? Also, you can´t know if he actually believes, you only know that he SAYS he believes. Can you tell the difference?

Yes, I think on average yes they will do a more ethical job. Now there are some non christians that have moral and ethical because their parents did a good job raising them that would also do a good job. But a true Christian will do even a better job because he knows he is being watch ALL the time. And they also know that God judges leaders and teachers harder than He does regular Christians. Also you can tell if they are true Christians by their actions.

 

[curling]

The constitution provides us basic human rights which NO ONE has the right to abrogate no matter what they beleive in, [/B]

I guess the basic human rights don't apply to baby Americans. Since they are pulled out of the irrosponsible woman with salad forks limb by limb till their dead. Basic human rights. Get REAL!

 

[the nature boy]

I guess the basic human rights don't apply to baby Americans. Since they are pulled out of the irrosponsible woman with salad forks limb by limb till their dead. Basic human rights. Get REAL!

uh how does that apply to Ashcroft?

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Ya'll are forgetting a very big positive about Ashcroft. Since he is a Christian he not only answers to man but to a higher power. And since he takes his commitment to Christ seriously, he will do a much better, moral and ethical job than his heathen liberal predecessor that had absolutely zero character.

Smalls bad analogy, Satan represents everything evil. The day we elect a Satanist knowingly to a high power position is the day when all the Christians will be gone and the world will have to deal with Satan himself. And since he hates humans, he ain't be that great of a leader.

You should thank Satan. He's been keeping your church in business for a long, long time. Before you worry about electing a Satanist, (interesting word choice, since Ass-croft was appointed after he lost an election to a dead guy), you should review www.churchofsatan.org and find out exactly what you are talking about. It might surprise you.

I don't give a shit what "higher" power Ashcroft answers to, and neither should you. If you want officials who answer to higher power, you may want to look into relocating to Iran.

Ashcroft needs to learn about separation of church and state. A great way for him to learn would be if here were a passenger on a flight that was hijacked by some people answering to their own higher power.

Curling, what do you know about the early church?

 

[curling]

He was saying abortion should be a right of a woman. I don't murder is murder. The woman lost her rights when she agreed to have unprotected sex. Very irrosponsible and then they make the baby(an american pay for it with its life)Roe Vs Wae was a total liberal damn judges decision that should have never passed.

 

[curling]

You should thank Satan.

For what? Tempting me, infertrating the media to spread his filth that has kids murdered at school, or how about the Halocaust where he had Hitler kill millions of Jews. Oh yea I am really thankful for him.

Before you worry about electing a Satanist, (interesting word choice, since Ass-croft was appointed after he lost an election to a dead guy), you should review www.churchofsatan.org and find out exactly what you are talking about. It might surprise you.

I could care less about the church of Satan. Those people are whacked and dillusional Satan is just a fallen angel Micheal(the Angel) could kick his ass. He is not God's adversary you understand that don't you? He is not even on the same level as God. Also what does Ashcroft have to do with Satan. I mean what was your point of this statement?

Ashcroft needs to learn about separation of church and state

You need to understand the seperation of church state was meant for the state not to interfere with the church.

A great way for him to learn would be if here were a passenger on a flight that was hijacked by some people answering to their own higher power.

You totoally lost me on this one.

Curling, what do you know about the early church?

If you are talking about the catholic church yes their is alot of deception, killing and unChristians like behavior in the early catholic church. Matter of fact, I don't trust the vatican now. Catholics(as people are fine) I just don't think the leaders in Rome are.

 

[Frackal]

It's storytime children...

 

[curling]

Frackel,

Fairy tells? I guess you like them if you believe we came from organizm that grew out the sea.

Let me ask you this why is the Isreal always being hassled by somebody. Why did Hitler want to do something so evil as to wipe them out. I tell you why because Satan know they are believers of the real God and it pisses him off to no end. Think about it you almost have to be dumb not to get it.

 

[Prometheus]

This is an example of why you should never start a conversation about religion. It's a no-win.

As for ashcroft, I initially supported his appointment, especially after the years of clinton crime and incompetence. But when he covered that statue, he became a foolish embarassment. And with his recent attempts to curtail rights (the attorney-client privelage, right to privacy, due process, etc.), he has become a danger.

 

[curling]

As for ashcroft, I initially supported his appointment, especially after the years of clinton crime and incompetence. But when he covered that statue, he became a foolish embarassment. And with his recent attempts to curtail rights (the attorney-client privelage, right to privacy, due process, etc.), he has become a danger. [/B]

The statue deal doesn't bother me that is just a quirk. The other ones you mentioned do. Where did you hear that he is trying to curtail these rights and how?

 

[smallmovesal]

curling you are being such a hypocrite and you cannot see it...

 

[curling]

How so?

 

[huntmaster]

true.

But in this case this guy is very fundamantalist Christian. There was a statue in home state with exposed breasts that he had covered up. I'm surprised he didn't put a veil on the statue to cover the whole thing.

Now you here the rest of the story . . . .

The statue was one that he gives speeches in front of and gets his picture taken in front of on a frequent basis. I fully understand his side on the statue thing.

So the man has shame--so he has convictions--so he had the statue covered up b/c he didnt want everyone to be looking at a naked chick everytime he was in a magazine or newspaper!!!

What is so bad about that?

Why does an individual undergo so much persecution for standing for what is right??

Why cant America recognize a quality leader who underneath it all is a good man of integrity???


And we wonder why we are in seriouse moral decline.--it's no mystery.

Many of us want our favorite soap opera characters to be our leaders---not rare men of character and convictions like Ashcroft.

 

[smallmovesal]

ok let's say joe politician answered to a pagan god and part of his religion involved carrying a lamp around, painting his face red, and denouncing walking in favor of pogo sticks.
now he decided that he should have his staff do the same, but they didn't want to...

does he not owe it to the public/his staff to keep that weird ass shit to himself?

you'll say yes but somehow there is something right about what ashcroft is doing because it is tied into "christianity".... newsflash! you're failing to see that church and state are supposed to be separate, regardless of what religion... if you had a hindu politician throwing his beliefs on you as a christian would you not be offended? just because what he believes is the same as what you believe doesnt make it right to force upon others, especially seeing what position of power he holds.

 

[huntmaster]

now he decided that he should have his staff do the same, but they didn't want to...

does he not owe it to the public/his staff to keep that weird ass shit to himself?


. . . just because what he believes is the same as what you believe doesnt make it right to force upon others, especially seeing what position of power he holds.

OK----enough of this political spin.

Let's tell it like it is. He doesnt force anyone to attend these open prayer meetings.

Here are some links---the first being one that is critical of the prayer meetings.

http://www.mcjonline.com/news/01a/20010514a.shtml

http://www.aclj.org/news_focus/nf_010516_ashcroft_prayer_meetings.asp


They are VOLUNTARY.

 

[smallmovesal]

it doesn't matter if they're voluntary... he should keep his trap shut and not use work as a means of converting members to his church.

 

[curling]

Well ok I see your point. I guess your right I wouldn't like seeing the hindu thing but I think I would let him do it. I would just think he was odd but at least he stands by his convictions.

Satan worships on the other hand are evil. That is all satan is is evil. So yes I would have a problem having a satanist being a polititian though I think many of them are(Illuminati). If that makes me a hyprocrite, then I guess I am one.

Oh btw this country was based on Christians values so I do think it is more appropriate to have a Christian leaders than some pagen religions.

 

[huntmaster]

Smalls---He's not -----

When I worked at the ft worth location of my current job, a few of us cam in early and had a bible study--no one had a problem with it.



The reason why I brought up the fact that they are voluntary is because most of the premisses here were based on the false assumption that ashcroft is forcing religion on others--this is untrue.

This is not a personal matter.

I just saw a good man being battered and lied about on here and thought it would be good to try to shed some light on the subject so that those that dont know about him would not be mislead.

 

[smallmovesal]

Well ok I see your point. I guess your right I wouldn't like seeing the hindu thing but I think I would let him do it. I would just think he was odd but at least he stands by his convictions.

Satan worships on the other hand are evil. That is all satan is is evil. So yes I would have a problem having a satanist being a polititian though I think many of them are(Illuminati). If that makes me a hyprocrite, then I guess I am one.

Oh btw this country was based on Christians values so I do think it is more appropriate to have a Christian leaders than some pagen religions.

lol don't go hardcore on the satanist comment... it was late and i was being more sarcastic than usual.

there goes the "christian superiority".. when will you realise that regardless of religion people can just do their job? i ascribe to no religion, however i think i could do a fine job in office... belief in "god" has nothing to do with doing your job well..


huntmaster - does he do this during work hours?

 

[curling]

lol don't go hardcore on the satanist comment... it was late and i was being more sarcastic than usual.

That's cool. But I still can't believe matt linked that cite. Those people are whacked.

there goes the "christian superiority".. .

Naw, we ain't superior Just Our God Is.

huntmaster - does he do this during work hours?

I will give this an answer if you don't mind hunt? Do you get a break at your job smalls? If you do, can't you do what you want to do on your break?

 

[smallmovesal]

like he said, he came in early at work to do that... that's what ashcroft should at least do... i wonder if anyone in his office would come though.. from the sounds of it, he's annoying them to death.

 

[curling]

like he said, he came in early at work to do that... that's what ashcroft should at least do... i wonder if anyone in his office would come though.. from the sounds of it, he's annoying them to death.

I like to look at it he is annoying them to have life after death. He is also getting more stars in his Crown in Heaven. By not being ashamed to talk about God and possibly leading others to the truth and salvation. Btw You are one of my biggest Goals on these boards. I think you would be cool to have in Heaven.

 

[Prometheus]

The statue deal doesn't bother me that is just a quirk.

The statue thing is more than a quirk - he has been given discretionary power to spend my money, and the scope of his authority should not extend to his personal sexual repression, religious fundamentalism, fear of women, or whatever the hell prompted such a stupid move.

His most serious efforts have been since the WTC attacks - he tried to push a reg. allowing the FBI to listen in on "suspected terrorists'" conversations with their lawyers, and pushed hard for very expanded wiretap and arrest authority for federal agents. Sure that's great if it only applies to bin laden, but ashcroft's definition of "terrorist" is pretty broad, and most of the measures were applicable to everyone in the US. I don't have the exact proposals and recommendations, but if you search back for news right after the attacks, especially regarding the "USA Patriot Act," and the associated Congressional hearings, you'll find some scary stuff. I htink he really is trying to do what he thinks is right here, but a nice tyrant is still a tyrant.

 

[smallmovesal]

LOL whatever do you mean curling?

i know what you're saying by him trying to "save" people but he just cannot/should not do that at work..

 

[curling]

LOL whatever do you mean curling?

You know.

i know what you're saying by him trying to "save" people but he just cannot/should not do that at work..

Work don't you understand that is a Christians work. Who cares where? Don't tell me you don't talk to coworkers or subordinates about other things beside your job. Remember this life we live is miniscule in camparison to eternity wouldn't you say? I am not sure how old you are but have you not noticed how fast time flies now that you are over 21? It blows my mind. I can't believe I am 37 I have already lived more than 1/3 of my life and only have 2/3 left or if I get hit by a car on the way I home I don't even have that. Wouldn't you like buy into some great retirement benefits?

 

[smallmovesal]

...i'm not sure i know. why?

well, i understand that is how some christians feel... but at some point someone is going to say, hey, i just work here leave me alone... right?

 

[curling]

...i'm not sure i know. why?

You know I would like to see you come to Christ. You will be happier than you have ever been. And the reason I say you would be cool in Heaven is because you have a good sense of humor. And I for appreciate humor.

well, i understand that is how some christians feel... but at some point someone is going to say, hey, i just work here leave me alone... right?

Yea, and that is cool. All his job is is to tell them & then God takes over. And if the person keeps rejecting him. After a while God will give up on them and then he/she might lose their chance for eternal life which is a shame but at least he would have tried.

 

[smallmovesal]

i appreciate that, but i wasn't a happy catholic... i have a tendency to believe that organised religion is often a form of control... or helps people to order their lives - which is cool, but i just live my life trying to be a good person instead.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

You need to understand the seperation of church state was meant for the state not to interfere with the church.

This is ridiculous. It goes both ways.

You don't know anything about the church of satan. If you did a little research you might speak more clearly on the subject. Satan is never mentioned in the Bible, but without him, Chrisitianity would go out of business. So take it easy on him....he never meant any harm.

www.churchofsatan.org

In other news, you write

After a while God will give up on them

Not according to anything I have ever read.


Curling, I think you're probably a pretty good guy.

 

[curling]

Between me and you I wouldn't be happy being a catholic either. I don't much go for man made religion.

But you are already half way their if you want to be a good person. All you have to do now is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins, then rose from the grave and repent from those sins and BOOM you are going to live in peace the rest eternity in the most awesome place you can imagine.

I mean just look around why did Jesus have such a HUGE impact on the world? I mean nobody to date is more well know than Jesus. Doesn't that tell you something is special about Him?

 

[curling]

This is ridiculous. It goes both ways.

You don't know anything about the church of satan. If you did a little research you might speak more clearly on the subject. Satan is never mentioned in the Bible, but without him, Chrisitianity would go out of business. So take it easy on him....he never meant any harm.

Man matt what have you been smoking? Have you been listening to big lip Mick Lately?

I think you are a pretty good guy too just a little confused about what Satan represents.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I mean just look around why did Jesus have such a HUGE impact on the world? I mean nobody to date is more well know than Jesus. Doesn't that tell you something is special about Him?

No. It tells me that the most dominant empire in the history of mankind prostituted him as a means to aid in governing their further and further reaching empire.

Modern day Christianity is teh legacy of teh Roman empire.

 

[Prometheus]

Between me and you I wouldn't be happy being a catholic either. I don't much go for man made religion.

Then which religion are you talking about? All religions are "man-made."

 

[BigPhysicsBastard]

curling.......1. It can't be considered murder while the baby is still in the mothers womb. As I said, it ain't a nice thing.....but you just have to accept that the baby is part of the womans body and she can do with it what she wants. In the end she has to live with her actions, right or wrong. And of course in certain circumstances, abortion is vital to saving the woman's life. But pro lifers would rather have the woman die than the baby.......I spit on them for that.

2. Where you sober when you stated that seperation of church and state was meant to keep the state from interfering with the church?? I really don't know how to respond to that if you're serious.

 

[huntmaster]

But pro lifers would rather have the woman die than the baby.......I spit on them for that.

I am not sure how we got on this subject but---

The pro-life platform allows for abortion when the life of the mother is in definite danger.

2. Where you sober when you stated that seperation of church and state was meant to keep the state from interfering with the church?? I really don't know how to respond to that if you're serious.

Why dont you take a few moments and read what the constitution says.

The first amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

[aurelius]

But you are already half way their if you want to be a good person. All you have to do now is to have faith that Jesus died for your sins, then rose from the grave and repent from those sins and BOOM you are going to live in peace the rest eternity in the most awesome place you can imagine.