Another anavar, first cycle, newbie thread

[ho_steppa]

Well here’s a little bit about me:

Age: 31
Weight: 180 pounds
Height: 5’8”
Years training: 10 years + (only the last 2-3 years though with my diet in check)
Current diet: on a fat loss mission doing 40/40/20 of about 1800-2000 clean calories a day (a few minor cheats a week)
No history of serious health problems, disease, injury…
Bench: 275
Squat: 315
Deadlift: 335

I’ve read so many of these threads this past week, they all sound so similar, yet ever-so-slightly different, it’s annoying. I was hoping to find a thread and say ‘yippie! that is exactly what I wanted to do and the advice I was looking for!’

As a first oral-only cycle, I want to do anavar 40 mg/day for 12 weeks, my confusion lies in what else to take during and in the PCT.

During the cycle:
-I’m taking creatine right now, and I read creatine is good to stay on while taking anavar.
-For liver support, I’ve heard both sides of the argument. I will take it just to be on the safe side. Is Liv-52 good for liver support?
-AI, I don’t need one since this is a mild steroid

PCT:
I’ve read about HCGenerate (which is out of stock on the dude’s site), Clomid, Arimidex, Nolvadex. Which one and how to dose?

As far as diet goes, I usually try to stay on a deficit 6 out of 7 days a week. Should the diet change during this cycle? Do things like preworkout drinks (NO xplode) and intro workout bcaa’s effect the cycle? Do I up the vitamins (I take an animal pak and a multi daily) or fish oils (I take 3-6 a day)

I hope this is enough information for some of you guys to help me out. Thanks for reading and hope I don’t get blasted for sounding like too much of a newb~

 

[ho_steppa]

24 hour bump after reading and re-reading more threads...

So I'm really confused about the PCT, I know I need one, I'm just having trouble putting it together. HCGenerate is out of stock, I could double dose Bridge, but that is also out. Now what about just taking Unleashed and Post Cycle together in lieu of HCGenerate? Or should I just wait for HCGenerate to be in stock and use that only? Or should I use all three when I am done with the var?

Also, I will be taking Forged Liver Support during with the var and N2 Guard after the var.

anyone???

 

[Blaster22]

Up the Var to 80mg a day. Use HCgenerate on cycle with N2gaurd. 4 caps a day. Read sticky for PCT. Forma Stanazol 5 pumps am/pm. Post cycle/unleashed 4 weeks and Phytoserms 347. Then do 6 weeks bridge after. Stay away from Cloin/Nolva. Makes you feel like shit. If you can't do 80mg var stay away and save more money. Better yet, buy Beastrol and run 6 weeks at 20mg day. You will be happy provided you eat enough protien and healthy carbs.

 

[rage22]

GOod advice above...

Wait for the hcgenerate in my opinion. I hear 2 weeks from a few days back it should be back in stock.

get a blood test now before your cycle to make sure u know where you normal range is.

And goin from anavar to a beast cycle lol... No I dont agree. Too many sides I hear and prob not great for a first timer. Instead id stick with maybe doing a helladrol cycle first. Less sides, dosnt convert to estrogen. I have a few friends on it now and all love it thus far. Its my proposed next. If u want a layout ley me know and ill post how I was told to do it right.

I just recently came back from a cycle of var at 40mg ed. Really fucked me up mentally. most likely because I didnt come off right, like soo many newbs.. Lol. Let it be a lesson and make sure u have pct before u start. It effects everyone differently so what happened to me may not be the same for you. I had anxiety and slight depression from it. Honestly maybe it wasnt enough but it wasnt worth the money, anx, depression, or even havon to remember to tak it. Gains really arnt tht great and if anything use this in addition to a test as a base... As most will say.

 

[ho_steppa]

Thanks for that guys, I read the PCT sticky and it helps alot. I will look into the Forma Stanzol and PhytoSerms-347. Besides that, I guess it's just a waiting game for HCGenerate and Bridge to be back in stock.

I'm gonna stick with anavar only as my first cycle, I'm already sold on it considering all the good stories (and bad) I've read about it. I also already dropped my loot on it anyways! So I just have to get my PCT in line. and I must say, wow, I didn't think doing a cycle was going to be so pricey! lol, I do spend alot of money on groceries weekly, and I thought I was a supplement junkie prior to researching steroids...I just hope the investment is worth it!

 

[rage22]

Well var is also one of, if not, the most expensive aas to get. So at least from here on youll only save money on aas lol.

 

[ho_steppa]

Hey rage, I read your thread (help with pct after anavar) and yours was one of the worst experiences I heard about anavar. So pretty much you had a bad run from the start (4 weeks in) and didn’t have a proper PCT lined up. 3 months later you find Hcgenerate and most/all problems solved? DO you think you might have gotten fake anavar? Also, What’s the helladrol cycle you plan on running?

edit: been reading up on helladrol, sounds very similar to anavar, but at a fraction of the cost...hmmm

 

[rage22]

This is how I was told to run the helladrol cycle correctly...

1-4 helladrol cap 3 times a day first two weeks and if you are doing fine them move up to 4 caps the last two weeks
1-4 E-CONTROL 1 cap a day Rlssupplements.com has it.
Discount code Ruthless10
1-4 n2guard 7 caps a day
1-4 HCGenerate 5 caps ed spread out. or 2 caps 3 times a day bridge ( two bottles)
4-8 Unleashed/post combo 1 cap each 2 times a day
4-8 FORMA-STANOZOLOL 5 pumps am and 5 pumps pm

I have 2 friends on this currently and I am watching, waiting until they finish and come back fully before I make my own decision about going ahead and doing it. Both have blood work to accompany the cycle and one of them (the before cycle so far) is posted here.

One guy is 18% ( I believe, could also be 24'% huge diff I know, but I gotta check and get back to ya on it. ) bf and 240lb. He's been on 2.5 weeks. Here's what it looks like 75mg, 75mg, 100mg, 100mg. So far he hasn't really felt too much from it nor seen insane gains. Pose to take 3 weeks to really kick in so we are watching tentatively . My guess is because he really isn't all that fit.

The other guy is 13% bf and 200lb. He fit as hell and has been on for literally 1 week now at 75mg and says he can for sure tell, has gone up in weight 5lb as well. He is a fit fat guy tho lol, easy gainer, or truly gifted. Couldn't tell ya if it was from the helladrol but I'm sure it is.

Me, I'm 5' 10", 172-175. Hard to gain weight it seems for me and I would hope to get to 185 from doing helladrol, at least 180. Would also like to see a gain In strength in all lifts. But really I wanna push 405 up on the bar thts my goal, long term.

 

[rage22]

As for the var being fake, no clue.. By far worst I have ever felt. Was also a first cycle, listening to a friend who had never actually been off before, and didn't know what or how to deal with a panic/anx attack. Never had them before that. I'll never touch the shit again to be honest with you. I think that the constant worry if I had fucked myself up was the worst part and having a friend that really didn't know what he was doing giving advice didn't help, lol.

It's highly possibly it could have been fake considering how I felt, although it's more likely that it was legit var. I had a good source, at least everything else was legit (clen, winny). The symptoms of high bp made me believe it was var... Stupid tho, I know now tht they all can give you high bp while on. And I had back pumps during things that I had to lean over. And the shit hurt. On top of it I went from 158 to 178... Came off, felt like shit for a long time ( no pct and listening to docs to do nothing ) went to 168 and finally recently started gaining mass again. Currently 172-175 during day. So as I reread that, it makes me lean toward it was something else. You don't gain 20 lbs from var, so I read anyhow... Lol I just wish there was a testing facility so I could find out if I'm jus a pussy or if it really was fake.

After reading here and a lot of other places I found out about support supps and all the stuff I should have been on as well as proper pct protocols. I didn't relize how important pct is. ( shit I didn't even know about it before I came here!)

 

[rage22]

And by the way, yeah hcgenerate was a god send. It brought me back to life. And needto's the man to thank for tht!

 

[ho_steppa]

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for the info, I’ve become very interested in these drol products these past few days, (doing my research and all) I’ve been reconsidering my options and given what products are readily available to me at the moment, I think I’m going to switch to a helladrol cycle. 2 main reasons for this: 1 being the price, and 2 being able to guarantee the authenticity of the drug. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I saw needto posted this as a proposed cycle for someone:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1-6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Helladrol[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 100mg every day spread out. [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]4-10 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]need2slin[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1 cap 3 times a day 30 mins before meals. [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1-6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]n2guard[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 5 caps a day [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]6-12 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]bridge[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 2 caps 3 times a day[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]6-18 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]forma-stanzol[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 5 pumps am and 5 pumps pm, Last 2 weeks drop it to 3 am and 3 pm[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]I am planning on running a similar cycle, and throw in forged liver support and Hcgenerate while on the cycle and taking out the Bridge. But I will have to wait and see on that if I can even order the hcgenerate and/or bridge before it sells out. (still 2-3 weeks was what a customer service rep told me from the website 2 days ago)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Is e-control necessary? It is an AI, right? But I thought helladrol doesn’t convert to estrogen (did I get that right? Lol, still getting used to this new lingo!)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I hope the same friend that advised you on the var cycle isn’t the same friend giving you advice on the helladrol cycle! lol[/FONT]

 

[rage22]

no no... lol not the same friend. The friend that gave that advice to me was NEEDTO in a PM about 3 weeks ago.

From everything I know... no Hella wont convert to estrogen, why the E-control? Don't actually know that one, just that Needto said so and if he says so its pretty much the way it should be.

Running at 100mg ed like he was advising another guy (I havent seen it but I believe it) would make sense but I couldnt tell you if that other guy was someone who had run a few cycles before, things like that that could have been specific to that person whom he replied to. You get me? lol

I know that for sure he sent that to me with my buddy who is 26yr old, 240lbs, and it was his first cycle. My personal opionion would be to start at 75mg, 75mg, 75mg (see how you feel), 100mg, 100mg, 100mg. If you can handle six weeks on of it. Everyone will respond differently and like I said before, the guy who is 240lb says he dosnt really notice much yet after 2.5 weeks (guy also took clen @ I believe 80mcg ed ~whatever it was it was a little more then the recommended~ and it did nothing for him), where as the my other buddy that is 200lb and is jacked took half the clen and was shakeing (go figure), he also notes a deff. effect after 1 week of helladrol. In short, better safe then sorry if you cant handle the side you could get from it (not that you should encounter too many really)

Bridge (needto could of just said that instead of hcgen because a double dose should give you the same amount of fodogia, maybe hcgen was outa stock, like always.. lol) I agree with you and I would wait for the hcgenerate. Run that throughout your cycle and come off at pct when you transfer to post cycle/ unleashed and/or Formastanzol. Then once your pct is over run bridge for a little while until your next cycle.
Personal opionion, get the post cycle and unleashed and run them with the forma for pct. Again, better safe then sorry.

Need2Slin... This stuff is freaking awesome and I think that while you wait for hcgenerate and all the other goodies to come in you should try this stand alone. I Swear I used it for a week and started to pick up weight and actually saw a difference in the mirror. It could also have been an assemblance of things but it was when I added this to my supp stack that I saw the greatest difference. But also be careful, I have found a few cases on the net and actually experianced it myself last week. If you dont eat enough carbs while taking this it Could and I say might put you in a mild hypoglycimic state. I still am waiting for feedback from needto on this though so dont take that as a for sure thing. All I know is when I take it on a full stomach 2 before and 2 after WO I'm fine and have no issue. If I take in the morning with a smaller breakfast its like I didnt eat or something. I feel like Im starving and get the shakes, cold sweats, etc. You know the feeling when you don't eat for a long time. Its like your energy just takes a dive all the sudden and bam.. you gotta eat! to make it better. Takes about 20-30min to feel better. And I have found a few threads here and there of guys talking about the same thing happening to them. You can also stay on N2S from now till the end of your cycle of even through the end of it. At least this is the word.

And for good measure you could add gear into the mix. If you decide to run N2S and/or gear, I'd do it now prior to startign so your know what feelings are what and how these things are effecting you.

Needtos product are some powerful things! And if you are really feeling like you wanna "feel" one of his product grab some n2kts. I just got mine about a week ago for the first time. HOLY SHIT! is all I can say. Taste is rediculous in a good way and you just feel amped up. Truly its somthing that you have to try for yourself to understand.

I know it sounds like I'm pushing this guys products and what not, and I am, but if you go back and read some of my post (you actually already did lol) youll see I came here only a short while ago and had no Idea about this guy. He actually helped me out in ways I cant even explain man, I was at a loss when I found this site. Basically straight fucked up. And after coming back using his advice and his product... well I owe it to him I feel to at least let people know what they did for me. And helping people out, thats just something I like to do in my free time lol because its of interest you know.

 

[ho_steppa]

Supplementation, dieting, training, (life in general!)...SO many different factors come into play, it's really hard to pinpoint one exact thing that will be the answer to all. Like your two friends, of course they are going to react differently, but I guess it's up to how they adjust and edit their plans to optimize results in the end. It does kind of become guesswork, doesn't it? I suppose that's why we research and do as much as we can to eliminate any 'unknowns' and just hope it becomes easier and clearer with time and experience.

But, I will definately have an On cycle and Post cycle game plan set up, with everything in hand before I start, and just make adjustments according to how I respond. I just ordered a few products from NTBM, the need2slin, Forged liver, and n2guard. And then I'll pick up Hcgenerate, Unleased/Post Cycle in a few weeks. Helladrol and Fromastanzol should be on its way, so hopefully I can start my cycle by may. By then I hope to be around 170. Currently 180, dropped about 20 pounds since february with only a slight decrease in strength. So I'm hoping this cycle will harden the muscle a bit, and help me increase strength and get a little more defined, without adding too many pounds (that's all!).

thank for the info on need2slin, been curious about what exactly this product does, everything else I seem to be ok in my understanding, except for the slin...

And is n2kts really that good? or that different from other pre workouts? I've tried soooo many preworkouts, and No explode (which is also the first one i ever tried) is the only one that really made me feel something and gave me a noticable 'pump'. Hence it is what I keep returning to after dissapointment from others (white flood, animal pump, jack3d, quake, levrone formula, there are others I don't remember...) I know everyone is different and these formulas effect people differently and all, so there's that. EC gives me a good pump, too. I sometimes take that preworkout...i just might have to order a sample pack of the n2kts. Is it ok to take preworkouts while on cycle? I'm not taking anything right now, I just got off the EC stack a few weeks ago, and wasn't planning on taking a preworkout while taking helladrol.

 

[rage22]

I dont believe that there is anything wrong with taking a preworkout on cycle. I know alot of guys will stay away from them though while on and save it for pct and being off. Simply because while on you feel amped and ready to rock like all the time. So its kinda not needed. Ur pumps are extreme to, lol much more then on a pre wo or any supp type thing.

N2kts is pretty damn good. I had one of the best workouts in a lonnng time after using it last week. I thought it was intense, so did my 240lb friend. You just wanna keep lifting even though you know you should be done. The tingle in my head and ears was the coolest part. I took 2 scoops and I think I could do better taking one, was a little much for me. Id get the sample pack, drink, the whole thing and see how you like it. Green apple is an awesome taste! 2 scoops is sweet, anymore and I think itd be too sweet tho.

 

[ho_steppa]

Update:
So, I tweaked my back about a month ago, and been taking it super easy on squats (smith only) and not doing any deadlifts whatsoever (back day has been feeling so empty these past few weeks!). Well my back has been gradually feeling better and yup, you know it, squatting on the smith machine this past Sunday, finishing a superset from 225 to 185 and on my 18th rep, POP! I was in so much pain, but I couldn't just call it a day. I tighten up the Inzer belt and finish with leg extensions, leg curls, and seated calf raises. Spend a good 30 minutes in the hot tub stretching my back out. Doc gave me some vicodin so I been enjoying (read abusing =) that the past few days and staying away from the gym. Unfortunately, my diet has been suffering, too since I find it harder to eat right when I'm not training hard.

Either way, this latest injury REALLY worried me and I'm just thankful that the injury isn't as bad as I thought and that this didn't happen during cycle. And now I am going to listen to my body and doctor and really take it easy while I wait for the Hcgenerate, Post cycle/Unleashed, Helladrol, Forma, and Beast to arrive. That's right, I decided to try both and the cycle will look something like this:

1-4 Beastrol 20/30/30/30
3-6 Helladrol 75/100/100/100
1-6 n2guard
1-6 forged liver
1-6 Hcgenerate
4-10 need2slin (I might run this on cycle and as part of PCT)

Post
6-12 Formastanzol
6-12 Unleashed
6-12 Post Cycle


Here's needto's quote from the helladrol cycle I quoted a few posts back:

Look bro I could care less about the money. Your a broke collage kid ok then fine I will give you all the products you need for your next cycle and your pct too. Except the helladrol that you said you can afford on your own.

How about this.

weeks
1-6 Helladrol 100mg every day spread out.
4-10 need2slin 1 cap 3 times a day 30 mins before meals.
1-6 n2guard 5 caps a day
6-12 bridge 2 caps 3 times a day
6-18 forma-stanzol 5 pumps am and 5 pumps pm, Last 2 weeks drop it to 3 am and 3 pm


I will give you everything you need to run this cycle.Then you make a log and log the cycle and the pct. You contact me each week and send me a pm with a link to the log. You do exactly as I say to going into pct..

Then if that cycle and pct is nor the bomb for you then you can go back to bitching .. How about that?

Running at 100mg ed like he was advising another guy (I havent seen it but I believe it) would make sense but I couldnt tell you if that other guy was someone who had run a few cycles before, things like that that could have been specific to that person whom he replied to. You get me? lol

I reread the thread and the op has done a couple of cycles in the past. well I can't post the link since I have less than 25 posts, but I wonder if you found it on your own. It's a pretty funny read!

Need2Slin... This stuff is freaking awesome and I think that while you wait for hcgenerate and all the other goodies to come in you should try this stand alone. I Swear I used it for a week and started to pick up weight and actually saw a difference in the mirror. It could also have been an assemblance of things but it was when I added this to my supp stack that I saw the greatest difference. But also be careful, I have found a few cases on the net and actually experianced it myself last week. If you dont eat enough carbs while taking this it Could and I say might put you in a mild hypoglycimic state. I still am waiting for feedback from needto on this though so dont take that as a for sure thing. All I know is when I take it on a full stomach 2 before and 2 after WO I'm fine and have no issue. If I take in the morning with a smaller breakfast its like I didnt eat or something. I feel like Im starving and get the shakes, cold sweats, etc. You know the feeling when you don't eat for a long time. Its like your energy just takes a dive all the sudden and bam.. you gotta eat! to make it better. Takes about 20-30min to feel better. And I have found a few threads here and there of guys talking about the same thing happening to them. You can also stay on N2S from now till the end of your cycle of even through the end of it. At least this is the word.

I just got the Need2slin, Forged Liver and n2guard today. I am thinking about trying the slin on your recommendation once I ease my way back into the gym in a few days. It's that good, huh? I train in the morning though, usually after I wake I have a quick oatmeal/protein shake and an hour later I'm in the gym. Should I take it with the preworkout shake? and then again with my post workout meal?

so yea, that's what I'm looking forward to now after doing much more research about these drol products. I will probably start a new thread soon since this has veered far away from being an anavar thread, and keep a log of this cycle. How is your cycle looking, rage? Still waiting for HCgenerate I assume (along with half the board I bet)

 

[rage22]

Yea I'm still waiting for my hcgenerate to arrive... Bought enough to last me a little while this time

Your proposed cycle seems intense! Can't wait to see how it turns out. I'd look in to e-control though.

I sent you a Pm after my endo appointment the other day, not sure if you got it though. I feel 100% these days but as you'll soon be able to see (havnt posted results yet) i'm still in low t range. I'm thinking it could quite possibly be a fluke as I went later in day 10:30am. Not to sure on whether that has a huge effect on total and free test levels but I know it has some effect. I'm going again early! next week.

I'm sitting at a 287 total t level and a low Free t level as well. What I had run was a recovery stack (after coming off w no pct in September of 2010) of TRS - sustain alpha, endoamp max, toco8-, hcgenerate at recommend dose, fish oils and multivits. I did this pct starting in March. So I was surpressed for a good while around 170. This was supposed to bring me back. I ran it for about 5 weeks then waited a week and then got my blood tested. Now I'm here explaining lol.

I can tell you I feel tremendous, no anx/ depression. Feel like I'm making weight gains on scale and in gym. So I know that the stuff had to do something. It definitely helped and in the beginning of use it seriously felt like someone had kicked me in the balls for the first week or so. This was "normal" as it's a sign of your balls literally coming back. I tell you all this so that you know what to expect from it.

I don't know my starting t levels which was a big mistake on my part and I recommend that you go and get a base line reading so you know where you are "normally". Then you have an idea on what to try to get to after cycle if you run into problems. I doubt it with the right pct in place though. Highly doubt you'll have any trouble.

 

[rage22]

Need2slin...

I take 2 30 min before gym and 2 as I'm walking out the door. I also eat right before the gym and right after I walk out. So it's always followed by a meal.

I know that you can take it 3 times a day spread throughout but the feeling I had when I did that sucked lol. So I don't do it that way. Try it and see what happens, but make sure you eating right after-30min you take it to avoid that " hypoglycemic feeling". The effects from it, in my opinion are for sure awesome. You will notice increased hunger for sure. I did, my buddies did and countless others. I gained weight when I added it to me regimen within the first week. And just thought for sure I looked jacked. Much more then usual that's for sure.

I feel you'll be very happy with this sup. I have even considered running straight supps from need to and doing away w roids. But what fun is that? Lol They are literally the only supps I can "feel" working. Everything else is really jus crap in comparison.

You can take it with your pre workout. I do and am fine. Biggest thing is eat afterwards.

Don't know if you got it but n2kts.. Wooooow it's great if you get a chance to try it deff do so. Fun in gym is all I can say.

 

[steelmass]

your proposed cycle sounds intense

Hah!!! What a joke.

1-4 Beastrol 20/30/30/30
3-6 Helladrol 75/100/100/100

Bro, that's week 1 20 mg of oral feroid. Week 2 is 30mg. Oh wowzer, by week 4 I have 130mg of methylated feroid in my veins.

I got some intense ish for you broseph, it's brand new maybe you've heard of it - Jack3d. It'll be radical, gnarly, and tubular.

FYI your PCT is even worse. Nolva/Clom/HCG/Arimi/Aroma - all far, far superior.

Lol They are literally the only supps I can "feel" working. Everything else is really jus crap in comparison.

If you can't feel skin splitting pumps from creatine/arginine/taurine then you need reevaluate more than just your cycle.

 

[rage22]

Whats a feroid?

It's his first cycle. Why would he need to go that hard on any substance? Adding beast is honestly a big step in itself. I watched both buddies on hella right now experience some great lean gains and pumps in on hella, with pretty much no sides. Adding beast, ummmm you prob will get a few, so why go crazy? Especially not having any experience before? Yea good call.

It's your opinion, but it looks like all you wanna do is bash me and this guys idea for his next cycle, what the reason for the post?

I think it's evident I'm speaking from the heart with everything I'm saying, if I'm wrong on any of it it's not because I'm trying to fuck someone up. And hence the reason I'm on a forum, to learn more. You show me some posts/ studies that are more then jus a bash session supporting what you say and, well I'll prob counter it but at least the guy needing the info will be able to choose what he needs to do for himself.

 

[rage22]

Check out this http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/first-cycle-beastdrol-katanadrol-log-740211.html for a comparison for running beast. Not quite the same but it will help.

 

[ho_steppa]

Seriously, what is a feroid?

I googled it and nothing. Well, at least I'm not the only one that doesn't know. I think he is making a spin on the word steroid, thus making jokes out of my cycle, and for that he shall die!!! and his daughters whored!!!

Either way, be it negative or just plain bad, I appreciate his comments, as I always do yours rage.

Seems like your t levels are still on the low side, but at least they are up from 170, and you are feeling 100%, right? How long do you think you'll wait till you start your helladrol cycle?

I saw that dude's beast/katanadrol thread before. I think I've seem most of the threads that have anything to do with helladrol or beastrol actually! That's what I'm here for, too man, to learn more...

 

[steelmass]

Whats a feroid?

It's his first cycle. Why would he need to go that hard on any substance? Adding beast is honestly a big step in itself. I watched both buddies on hella right now experience some great lean gains and pumps in on hella, with pretty much no sides. Adding beast, ummmm you prob will get a few, so why go crazy? Especially not having any experience before? Yea good call.

It's your opinion, but it looks like all you wanna do is bash me and this guys idea for his next cycle, what the reason for the post?

I think it's evident I'm speaking from the heart with everything I'm saying, if I'm wrong on any of it it's not because I'm trying to fuck someone up. And hence the reason I'm on a forum, to learn more. You show me some posts/ studies that are more then jus a bash session supporting what you say and, well I'll prob counter it but at least the guy needing the info will be able to choose what he needs to do for himself.

Honestly, it's not a bad way to start out if you don't mind the elevated liver enzymes. Accelerate building your base before you take the plunge. The only problem is that it in and of itself is the plunge, even worse. It will inhibit you, elevate enzymes, bad cholesterol etc. all for less gains so my reasoning is you might as well do the real thing. Btw feroid = fake or feaux + another word - referring to designer orals.

I guess my whole point was you're much better off with say 500mg test when it comes to your general health, wallet, and results. Also, PCT wise go nolvadex from a peptides supplier. You could go clomid, but it invokes female emotions in many. The only downside to nolva is lowering igf-1 so I throw that in as well.

Bottom line: 500mg Test for 10, nolva 20mged, and igf-1 50mcged for 3-4 will yield less sides for far greater gain at a better price. I apologize for the previous tone but I thought it was common knowledge. Most boards don't promote oral only and tell you to gtfo immediately if you suggest it.

 

[rage22]

You are correct in that. Most boards will also rip you a new ass if your new lol. Its a little rediculous. I get that people need to read and learn more before they post, but each case is sincerely different and needs to be customized to the individual. In other words there is no set way or cycle for everyone.

And yea alot will tell ya you need a test base for any cycle. But these days there are sooo many guys running successful oral only cycles. And test dose not always need to be injected- Check this out... http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...lic-steroids-oral-steroids-cycles-644727.html

Although, I had a buddy run it and said its not worth it. Im still recommending that you start with a helladrol only cycle and move from there. Jus because its you first go around. You want it to be good not too much for you to handle, you no?

As for pct... http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/p...rate-if-you-take-nolva-clomid-pct-682879.html

It is very hard for me to find a reasonable arguement against NOT taking nolva/clomid (double negative ) I mean after reading this your gonna never want to touch it again.

 

[rage22]

And I plan on waiting a few more weeks to start up a helladrol cycle. Might be 3-4 because I want to get things straight with my test (need to retake it earlier). If im still surpressed in the 200-300s I feel that it may be unwise of me to start a cycle, you know? As I know I should be higher then 500 based on age. If low even early ill be waiting and studying to get back. Cant go back on without recoverying (which ive already fucked up once).

Plus im watching my buddies whom are a little less careful shall we say, do this cycle and come off. I want to make absolutly sure its going to be good. Not that I have doubts tht it wont be great and an easy recovery. Ive seen the results and the effects of it, they are awesome! (and im sure someone will pep up and say, not compared to whatever but thats not my point) lean hard gains in weight and strength. All good so far. But the real challange is coming back to normal. So im waiting for that specifically because thats when I ran into issues with my last cycle.

 

[ho_steppa]

Those are good links, I read them a few weeks ago, and it's always good to reread threads that justify and shed more light on the type of cycle I am trying to run. =)

Need2slin...

I know that you can take it 3 times a day spread throughout but the feeling I had when I did that sucked lol. So I don't do it that way. Try it and see what happens, but make sure you eating right after-30min you take it to avoid that " hypoglycemic feeling". The effects from it, in my opinion are for sure awesome. You will notice increased hunger for sure. I did, my buddies did and countless others. I gained weight when I added it to me regimen within the first week. And just thought for sure I looked jacked. Much more then usual that's for sure.

I started back in the gym today after a week off, back feels much better and I'm glad I did rest a week as opposed to continue working out uncomfortably with back pain, which would prolly lead to another injury. Here's how I did the slin:

8:00am - wake and take 1 n2slin with water
8:30am - syntha & oats shake
9:30am - chest/tri with about 15 grams bcaa
11:30am - take 2 n2slin with water
12:00 - protein shake w/ creatine, banana, rice, veggies, chicken, tilapia
3:30pm - chicken, ham sandwich
8:30pm - tilapia, 3 eggs (not yet eaten)
10:30pm - cottage cheese, almond butter (not yet eaten)

This is a typical diet I 've been doing since Feb while losing weight. It is a little less than 2000 calories and the macros are at about 50/20/30. It's about 5:30pm and I don't feel any increase in hunger (which is good since I'm trying to eat less!) The only other sups I'm taking are a multi, fishoil, and uniliver tabs.

I'm gonna follow this to the T for another estimated 2-3 weeks while waiting for the goods to arrive.