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An Official PREDICTION

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
In the past, I speculated that BPH was not a matter of excess testosterone. If it were, why would OLDER men susceptible to it when T levels drop? That assumption was correct.

I predicted that prostate cancer would be treated by lowering estrogen instead of testosterone. That is now being done.

I've also claimed that "roid rage" was more a matter of aromatization and one's psychological profile than the increase in testosterone. That has not been proven but I believe it will soon be accepted by the medical community.

I also stated (on this very board to much derision) that lowering estrogen was counter productive to gains and libido. Today, we all realize that's true.

So now I say this. Male pattern baldness has little, and perhaps nothing to do with testosterone or DHT. I think they're barking up the wrong tree with that one. They assume because it happens more to men, it's the make hormone that causes it. I'm calling bullshit on that. It's something else they don't yet know about. Mark my words.

In general, testosterone is really what keeps us alive -- literally. If it gets too low, your risk of a heart attack increases dramatically. I do think that superphysioloical dosages are detrimental but we're finding ways around it and it won't be long before we can all be "super-enhanced" and avoid the deleterious side effects.

Testosterone is life. Being able to increase it is the greatest boon to physical enhancement that we know. So far.

Stay tuned.
 
I agree that estrogen plays a very large role in BPH.

"Roid Rage" however, is the result of an increased ANDROGEN level, not estrogen. This is why very androgenic compounds such as Testosterone, Trenbolone, Halotestin and Masteron all drastically increase agression and strength.

As for male pattern baldness, DHT is definitely a major culprit, although not the ONLY variable.
 
Thats strange you mention the BPH. Of testosterone, masteron, winny, var, and tren nothing has agitated my prostate. But after just 2 weeks of taking dbol (30mg preworkout only) with no AI and i was pissing constantly with that burning sensation. Must have been estrogen.
 
I agree that estrogen plays a very large role in BPH.

"Roid Rage" however, is the result of an increased ANDROGEN level, not estrogen. This is why very androgenic compounds such as Testosterone, Trenbolone, Halotestin and Masteron all drastically increase agression and strength.

As for male pattern baldness, DHT is definitely a major culprit, although not the ONLY variable.

I remember reading a study where men were given either a placebo or up to 600mg weekly of testosterone and were screened for aggression.

There was no difference in the aggressiveness level between the testosterone group and the control group. Just food for thought.
 
So now I say this. Male pattern baldness has little, and perhaps nothing to do with testosterone or DHT. I think they're barking up the wrong tree with that one. They assume because it happens more to men, it's the make hormone that causes it. I'm calling bullshit on that. It's something else they don't yet know about. Mark my words.

QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree.

The only thing, (and i've tried many) that halted my hairloss in its tacks was Finasteride which reduces Type 1 5ar. After 10 years of success, I switched to Dutasteride, a Type 1 and Type 2 Dual 5ar Inhibitor. I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that Dutasteride(avodart) regrew hair on the vertex and crown of my head. The documented progress pictures I have are indisputable.

In fact many studies have shown that castration is the only CURE for MPB. This is becasuse T which is produced in the testes converts to DHT through the 5Ar. No T = No DHT. Show me any other treatment aside form finasteride/dutasteride that offers a legitimate chance at stopping hairloss, and Ill be happy to try it.

Any thoughts?
 
maybe it's just me, but there should be a law against even mentioning the word "Castration". everytime i hear that word I feel Like i got kicked in the junk!
 
Just to comment on the aggression in men, I read an article about 7 years ago in Macleans Magazine, a Canadian Investigative reports magazine, that wrote an article about a U.S. prison owner that decided to convert half the prisons population to a strictly vegetarian diet to observe the effects it would have on the inmates.

After a six month trial his findings were astounding. The side of the prison that was converted reported 65% less violence and aggression and greater overall cooperation with prison staff.

What do you all think about that?
 
was reading that a person's genetics for receptor sites is where the difference kicks in.
Two men with indentical testosterone levels dht levels and estrogen levels
would look very different and be affected differnt in ways such as male pattern baldness.
Both men could make the same amount of DHT one goes bald and the other does not simpy due to recpetor sites on the head .
not the amount of dht the person makes.
Thats someone with little dht production could get prostate enlargement and go bald becuase they have higher concentrations of dht receptors in those areas. Where as a man that makes alot of DHT in his body can be very muscular very lean and never go bald simply becuase he does not have alot of DHT recpetors on his head.
Seems strange I know . Sure diet ,excersize and years of outside influences can change the bodys endocrine system.
But it cant change the amount of receptor sites and where they are located in the human body.

We all know about recpetors , some guys get big on steroids, and some guys can take steroids and look like they barley even train due to the bodys shitty genetic receptors.
Dood at my gym was telling me how he is running 800mg of test a week. he is 6'2 170lbs shoulders so narrow they are not much bigger then his waist, legs so twiggy they looks like fishing poles dangling from his shorts. In my opinion guys like that no matter how many steroids they take just dont have the receptor sites in their body to grow and will never be big , even if they pumped so much test and dht into their bodys , the body just dont use it.

Just as some guys keep their hair on steroids and some guys shed like a dog in the summer, its genetic the amount of hormones a person makes
BUT the receptors and how the body uses the hormones is just as important to the equation
 
Just to comment on the aggression in men, I read an article about 7 years ago in Macleans Magazine, a Canadian Investigative reports magazine, that wrote an article about a U.S. prison owner that decided to convert half the prisons population to a strictly vegetarian diet to observe the effects it would have on the inmates.

After a six month trial his findings were astounding. The side of the prison that was converted reported 65% less violence and aggression and greater overall cooperation with prison staff.

What do you all think about that?

I think it makes perfect sense, every vegetarian I have ever met is a frail , sickly looking twig concerned about not gaining a pound and usually on a very low calorie diet.they eat like birds
alot of times they are twiggy in the arms and legs but stil fat in the midsection
( vegans a dif story they still eat milk eggs and dairy)
Meat contains fats, fat are needed for hormonal production.

I am not saying that a person that eats only vegtables cant build a decent body , but i have never met one yet to this day
except a few hot yoga girls but even they still eat yogarts and dairy.
makinga man eat ONLY veggies is like fucking castration in my opinion, they would be so under feed in calories they would alway be tired
 
Well, I can speak to issue of BPH. I went off a testosterone only cycle recently and I definately have an enlarged prostate. It sucks getting up 10 times a night to dribble. I need sleep goddamn it!

I've been taking 900 mg of Saw Palmetto to no effect. I have Divanil coming and will try that. They both supposedly affect/lower DHT, but I haven't seen it. Funny thing is, I didn't start to see symptons of BHP until the end of the cycle when my estrogen levels were way up. Hmm.....Nelson may be on to something here.
 
I think it makes perfect sense, every vegetarian I have ever met is a frail , sickly looking twig concerned about not gaining a pound and usually on a very low calorie diet.they eat like birds
alot of times they are twiggy in the arms and legs but stil fat in the midsection
( vegans a dif story they still eat milk eggs and dairy)
Meat contains fats, fat are needed for hormonal production.

I am not saying that a person that eats only vegtables cant build a decent body , but i have never met one yet to this day
except a few hot yoga girls but even they still eat yogarts and dairy.
makinga man eat ONLY veggies is like fucking castration in my opinion, they would be so under feed in calories they would alway be tired
First off, you have vegans and vegetarians confused. Vegetarians still eat dairy but vegans don't. Secondly, I have been a vegetarian for over 10 years and have still managed to build a decent body with good musculature and definition. In fact, I'm stronger as a veg than I was when I was eating meat. Not saying this is going to be true for everyone but in my case it is. My point being that not everyone who's a vegetarian is rail-thin and sickly looking. BTW Reg Park (old-time bodybuilder, Arnold's hero) was a vegetarian too.
 
Well, I can speak to issue of BPH. I went off a testosterone only cycle recently and I definately have an enlarged prostate. It sucks getting up 10 times a night to dribble. I need sleep goddamn it!

I've been taking 900 mg of Saw Palmetto to no effect. I have Divanil coming and will try that. They both supposedly affect/lower DHT, but I haven't seen it. Funny thing is, I didn't start to see symptons of BHP until the end of the cycle when my estrogen levels were way up. Hmm.....Nelson may be on to something here.

Exactly! DHT isn't the problem. Get some flomax for the urinary problems. It absolutely doesn't solve the underlying problem but damn if it doesn't relieve the symptoms. I'm pretty sure one of our sponsors carries it.
 
You gotta point there, my observations have been the same toward vegetarians, also I noticed they're always sick with something!!

Just on thing though, I think vegans are the ones that don't eat any product that derives from an animal source not vegetarians, just for argument sake, lol!
 
First off, you have vegans and vegetarians confused. Vegetarians still eat dairy but vegans don't. Secondly, I have been a vegetarian for over 10 years and have still managed to build a decent body with good musculature and definition. In fact, I'm stronger as a veg than I was when I was eating meat. Not saying this is going to be true for everyone but in my case it is. My point being that not everyone who's a vegetarian is rail-thin and sickly looking. BTW Reg Park (old-time bodybuilder, Arnold's hero) was a vegetarian too.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/PrintEdition/Insight/Article.aspx?id=632962
reg park was a vegan drank milk,cream and honey protien drinks

I give you respect for being a vegetarian that knows how to eat and train.
But have you ever used steroids ?
MOST vegetarians atleast the ones i ever met in person eat so little such as a piece of fruit for breakfast , veggie soup for lunch and salad for dinner that they in no way have enough calories to build muscle.I am sure it is possible to met a vegetarian that is dedicated to eating a big diet to build muscle but they seem to be very few and far between even the guy you picked to promote vegetarian lifestyle was not a vegetarian
 
First off, you have vegans and vegetarians confused. Vegetarians still eat dairy but vegans don't. Secondly, I have been a vegetarian for over 10 years and have still managed to build a decent body with good musculature and definition. In fact, I'm stronger as a veg than I was when I was eating meat. Not saying this is going to be true for everyone but in my case it is. My point being that not everyone who's a vegetarian is rail-thin and sickly looking. BTW Reg Park (old-time bodybuilder, Arnold's hero) was a vegetarian too.


No shit eh? I didn't know that about Arnold. I think vegetarians have the ability to be just as athletic just maybe not as big, now obviously I don't know you personally and I'm just going by your avatar so please take no offence, you've got good muscle tone and definition but I would classify your build as an average "athletic" build, still good just not on the "heavy" side. That would be my opinion on the issue of "natural" vegetarian bodybuilding.
 
No shit eh? I didn't know that about Arnold. I think vegetarians have the ability to be just as athletic just maybe not as big, now obviously I don't know you personally and I'm just going by your avatar so please take no offence, you've got good muscle tone and definition but I would classify your build as an average "athletic" build, still good just not on the "heavy" side. That would be my opinion on the issue of "natural" vegetarian bodybuilding.

Reg Park: Muscle hero who shunned steroids
arnolds hero was not a vegetarian
 
Yes, I have used roids and every other supplement under the sun. A lot of vegans/vegetarians don't even work out and just aren't in to bodybuilding at all so they're not eating a lot of protein. I think we've hi-jacked Nelson's thread.
 
No shit eh? I didn't know that about Arnold. I think vegetarians have the ability to be just as athletic just maybe not as big, now obviously I don't know you personally and I'm just going by your avatar so please take no offence, you've got good muscle tone and definition but I would classify your build as an average "athletic" build, still good just not on the "heavy" side. That would be my opinion on the issue of "natural" vegetarian bodybuilding.

Yes, I would agree with that description of my build. Its more athletic and not as much bulk as a bodybuilder.
 
So now I say this. Male pattern baldness has little, and perhaps nothing to do with testosterone or DHT. I think they're barking up the wrong tree with that one. They assume because it happens more to men, it's the make hormone that causes it. I'm calling bullshit on that. It's something else they don't yet know about. Mark my words.

QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree.

The only thing, (and i've tried many) that halted my hairloss in its tacks was Finasteride which reduces Type 1 5ar. After 10 years of success, I switched to Dutasteride, a Type 1 and Type 2 Dual 5ar Inhibitor. I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that Dutasteride(avodart) regrew hair on the vertex and crown of my head. The documented progress pictures I have are indisputable.

In fact many studies have shown that castration is the only CURE for MPB. This is becasuse T which is produced in the testes converts to DHT through the 5Ar. No T = No DHT. Show me any other treatment aside form finasteride/dutasteride that offers a legitimate chance at stopping hairloss, and Ill be happy to try it.

Any thoughts?
Caffeine and Hair Loss

Many studies have come out showing that caffeine lowers blood serum estrogen. Most of the studies are abour caffeine helping to prevent cancer do to its effects on lowering estrogen.

Now there is testing out there saying topical caffeine
can and has prevented and or reversed hair loss.

Could it be more likely or just as likely that caffeine can lower or block estrogen at the hair follicle site and this is why it has a good effect on hair. :D
 
Yes, I have used roids and every other supplement under the sun. A lot of vegans/vegetarians don't even work out and just aren't in to bodybuilding at all so they're not eating a lot of protein. I think we've hi-jacked Nelson's thread.


I still have never seen a vegan or vegetarian that could build what I would call a good strong body. Although you are obviously in great shape, without the gear and supplements, I would assume you would not be quite as big and/or strong as you are now.
 
Just to comment on the aggression in men, I read an article about 7 years ago in Macleans Magazine, a Canadian Investigative reports magazine, that wrote an article about a U.S. prison owner that decided to convert half the prisons population to a strictly vegetarian diet to observe the effects it would have on the inmates.

After a six month trial his findings were astounding. The side of the prison that was converted reported 65% less violence and aggression and greater overall cooperation with prison staff.

What do you all think about that?

now thats punishment. You know what happens to iguanas based on their diets?

Even my dogs act more aggressive when I feed them meat.

I'm a carnetarian.
 
I've also claimed that "roid rage" was more a matter of aromatization and one's psychological profile than the increase in testosterone. That has not been proven but I believe it will soon be accepted by the medical community.

I disagree because I don't think roid rage exisits. in a worst case scenero its more like pms than anything.
 
I've also claimed that "roid rage" was more a matter of aromatization and one's psychological profile than the increase in testosterone. That has not been proven but I believe it will soon be accepted by the medical community.

I disagree because I don't think roid rage exisits. in a worst case scenero its more like pms than anything.

True. Though I'd say in 99% of the cases where one exhibits "rage" I'll bet they were belligerent assholes to start out with. Take a small dicked hothead who thinks he's a badass and add a ton of gear and yeah, expect him to be an even more self assured hothead.
 
On the issue of BPH, I'm getting a little worried. What started out for me as a minor irritation has become, at times, a bit painful. If estrogen is the cause of an enlarged prostate, then why is Proscar or Saw Palmetto, both inhibitors (by some mechanism, i.e. 5-alpha reductase inhibition) of DHT, indicated? As a note, another bro made this reference to estrogen induced BPH last summer sometime. I found the post when researching enlarged prostate. I'll quote it if I can find it again. As referred to by onebreath in this thread, this bro also had estro-prostate problems only with D-bol.

I have been using Saw Palmetto 900mg ED/3 wks and it isn't working. I just started 95% Divanil (concentrated Nettle Root) and started taking Clomid for PCT. If this combo works for my prostate then great! Unfortunately though, I won't be able to say conclusively which compound, Divanil (DHT) or Clomid (estrogen), was responsible. I just want the problem solved or else I guess I will have to go to the doctor soon.
 
On the issue of BPH, I'm getting a little worried. What started out for me as a minor irritation has become, at times, a bit painful. If estrogen is the cause of an enlarged prostate, then why is Proscar or Saw Palmetto, both inhibitors (by some mechanism, i.e. 5-alpha reductase inhibition) of DHT, indicated? As a note, another bro made this reference to estrogen induced BPH last summer sometime. I found the post when researching enlarged prostate. I'll quote it if I can find it again. As referred to by onebreath in this thread, this bro also had estro-prostate problems only with D-bol.

I have been using Saw Palmetto 900mg ED/3 wks and it isn't working. I just started 95% Divanil (concentrated Nettle Root) and started taking Clomid for PCT. If this combo works for my prostate then great! Unfortunately though, I won't be able to say conclusively which compound, Divanil (DHT) or Clomid (estrogen), was responsible. I just want the problem solved or else I guess I will have to go to the doctor soon.

DHT may have SOME effect on both hair loss and prostate but I insist it's a very small factor. Again, young men have much more DHT and less problems.

Pygeum and Nettle are better than Saw Palmetto. Do you take an anti e? I don't think clomid would affect it one way or the other though it is an estrogen so it may make it worse.

Also, regular sex (without holding back too much), lots of water. pumpkin seed and a bit of a-dex or a-san and/or a natty anti e such as POST CYCLE or Sustain. Even massage (YIKES!) helps. (Use a powerful vibator, if nothing else it seems to relieve the pressure). If it's bacterial, you'll need to see doc.
 
Then how come there are lots of people who regrew hair with anti-dht treatments ?? How the hell FDA approved a drug ?? And proviron sheds everyone so bad?? Anti-dht treatment while on a test cycle doesnt shed as much or even none?? I am also prone to MPB.

There might be and probably are other pathways for hair loss however saying that DHT has very little effect is funny.

Young men comparison is not correct at all.
Young men eat like shit and dont get cholestrol , blood pressure. They smoke , lays back all day , drink alcohol and still dont get any health problem .
And women have much more estrogen than men but their hair loss is nowhere close to ours
???
 
And women have much more estrogen than men but their hair loss is nowhere close to ours
???

Hell, I didn't think about that.

Could it be somewhat like progesterone gyno? Same principle anyway. Where as progesterone will only aggravate gyno in the presence of estrogen, perhaps DHT will only aggravate hair-loss and BPH in the presence of estrogen as well. That is worth looking into.

One other thing, I just started taking ephedrine again for a pre-workout stim and it says on the package that it may aggravate an enlarged prostate. wtf??? Just one more thing to worry about. I've been using it for a couple of days and nothing, but I'll have to keep an eye on that too.
 
Then how come there are lots of people who regrew hair with anti-dht treatments ?? How the hell FDA approved a drug ?? And proviron sheds everyone so bad?? Anti-dht treatment while on a test cycle doesnt shed as much or even none?? I am also prone to MPB.

There might be and probably are other pathways for hair loss however saying that DHT has very little effect is funny.

Young men comparison is not correct at all.
Young men eat like shit and dont get cholestrol , blood pressure. They smoke , lays back all day , drink alcohol and still dont get any health problem .
And women have much more estrogen than men but their hair loss is nowhere close to ours
???

No one said estrogen had anything to do with hair loss -- just prostate problems.
 
Then how come there are lots of people who regrew hair with anti-dht treatments ?? How the hell FDA approved a drug ?? And proviron sheds everyone so bad?? Anti-dht treatment while on a test cycle doesnt shed as much or even none?? I am also prone to MPB.

There might be and probably are other pathways for hair loss however saying that DHT has very little effect is funny.

Young men comparison is not correct at all.
Young men eat like shit and dont get cholestrol , blood pressure. They smoke , lays back all day , drink alcohol and still dont get any health problem .
And women have much more estrogen than men but their hair loss is nowhere close to ours
???

EXACTLY, DHT has a LONG-TERM effect on the PROSTATE. After 50 years of DHT affecting your Prostate, BPH will manifest itself.

Nelson, sometimes your logic is..seriously flawed lol. ;)
 
EXACTLY, DHT has a LONG-TERM effect on the PROSTATE. After 50 years of DHT affecting your Prostate, BPH will manifest itself.

Nelson, sometimes your logic is..seriously flawed lol. ;)


Ross, you can be such a... fool sometimes. LOL. ; )
 
Then how come there are lots of people who regrew hair with anti-dht treatments ?? How the hell FDA approved a drug ?? And proviron sheds everyone so bad?? Anti-dht treatment while on a test cycle doesnt shed as much or even none?? I am also prone to MPB.

There might be and probably are other pathways for hair loss however saying that DHT has very little effect is funny.

Young men comparison is not correct at all.
Young men eat like shit and dont get cholestrol , blood pressure. They smoke , lays back all day , drink alcohol and still dont get any health problem .
And women have much more estrogen than men but their hair loss is nowhere close to ours
???

Actually, It's the long term effects of bad health choices that will indeed leed to many problems.. To say that young guys can do just about anything and have not health effects is uncorrect.

Woman who have given birth often suffer hairloss afterwards for a month or two, some longer..

I wonder what the connection is?
 
Actually, It's the long term effects of bad health choices that will indeed leed to many problems.. To say that young guys can do just about anything and have not health effects is uncorrect.

Woman who have given birth often suffer hairloss afterwards for a month or two, some longer..

I wonder what the connection is?

telogen efflivium
 
Actually, It's the long term effects of bad health choices that will indeed leed to many problems.. To say that young guys can do just about anything and have not health effects is uncorrect.

Woman who have given birth often suffer hairloss afterwards for a month or two, some longer..

I wonder what the connection is?

you can have 2 groups to study

one is 18 yr old average and the other is 70 year old average. Both healthy lifestyle
You introduce some bad habits at the same time and watch what s gonna happen.

It has more to do with what years have done to body rather than long term choices. If there was a person who never aged, I am sure he would live like crap and still be much healthier then old men
 
You know what Nelson , I actually was not gonna look at your thread because I know there wasnt even gonna be an answer.

However, I thought there might be a sentence in someone's 3 paragraph long post than can make your philosophy-mode race again.

If you have an hypothesis, then do something to support it.

You should have lived at the old Greek but it is not how things work in here..
 
you can have 2 groups to study

one is 18 yr old average and the other is 70 year old average. Both healthy lifestyle
You introduce some bad habits at the same time and watch what s gonna happen.

It has more to do with what years have done to body rather than long term choices. If there was a person who never aged, I am sure he would live like crap and still be much healthier then old men

The obvious of genetics aside, you're way off base.

Perhaps I am not understanding what you are saying, but it sounds a whole lot like you are suggesting that age, and not life style and the consistancy of lifestyle are why ppl get sick, have heart attacks, bad colestoral (sp) etc.

I suppose smoke doesn't cause lung cancer either as long as you're young? Or ppl get lung cancer because they are 60, not from smoking for 40 years.
 
The obvious of genetics aside, you're way off base.

Perhaps I am not understanding what you are saying, but it sounds a whole lot like you are suggesting that age, and not life style and the consistancy of lifestyle are why ppl get sick, have heart attacks, bad colestoral (sp) etc.

I suppose smoke doesn't cause lung cancer either as long as you're young? Or ppl get lung cancer because they are 60, not from smoking for 40 years.

Age is a huge factor in all diseases...who is to say that smoking causes the cancer in an older individual? It could have been a random exposure to a carcinogen other than cigarettes that caused it...

In regards to heart disease, yes lifestyle is a factor...but over time, irregardless of how healthy a person is, they can have adverse effects, whether it be due to genetics or some other factor.

Aquatic glories is right in my opinion. Age, more than lifestyle or even genetics is a larger factor than anything else. Just over time, in a system that is open to error, eventually an error will occur and something negative will happen.

Did you know that 90% of men that live to age 90 develop prostate cancer? Age is a strong factor...but at age 90 prostate cancer is usually the least of the persons worries.
 
You know what Nelson , I actually was not gonna look at your thread because I know there wasnt even gonna be an answer.

However, I thought there might be a sentence in someone's 3 paragraph long post than can make your philosophy-mode race again.

If you have an hypothesis, then do something to support it.

You should have lived at the old Greek but it is not how things work in here..


What are you talking about bro? I love it when someone addresses a completely separate issue and then claims the person they're arguing with is ignoring the issue.

Look, OBVIOUSLY age is a factor. the body wears down and is more suseptable to malfunction. No revelation there. But some hormonal imbalances are not age decline related. For instance, teenagers have very erratic boosts in hormones. Hence, they get acne.

And as far as my other points of reason you're delusional if you don;t think I back them up. I probably do more explaining than just about anyone in the industry. But I don't have all the answers. In the case of hair loss it's my guess that they're off base. It's something that has yet to be discovered. You're going to bust me on THAT because I don't have the cure for baldness!

Cut some slack dude.
 
Age is a huge factor in all diseases...who is to say that smoking causes the cancer in an older individual? It could have been a random exposure to a carcinogen other than cigarettes that caused it...

In regards to heart disease, yes lifestyle is a factor...but over time, irregardless of how healthy a person is, they can have adverse effects, whether it be due to genetics or some other factor.

Aquatic glories is right in my opinion. Age, more than lifestyle or even genetics is a larger factor than anything else. Just over time, in a system that is open to error, eventually an error will occur and something negative will happen.

Did you know that 90% of men that live to age 90 develop prostate cancer? Age is a strong factor...but at age 90 prostate cancer is usually the least of the persons worries.


point taken!
 
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