Amaryllis' Epistrong Log

[Amaryllis]

Hi Ladies,

I wanted to start this log for those who are interested in Epi-Strong. I am already a member on this site under a different name, but for security reasons I'll be keeping track of my Epi-Strong cycle under this user name. For starters, a little about me:

• Mid-twenties
• 5'3", 134lbs
• 14.5% BF
• Training seriously for 3 years (that includes nutrition) but have lifted since I was 15 or so.
• Genetically speaking, I am a meso.
• Current calories are at about 1800-2200/day depending on what I'm lifting.
• No cardio.
• just competed in my first figure comp, unfortunately lost a lot of size during the prep and im ready for a productive off season.

I'll also be keeping track of other supporting supplements I'm stacking along with the Epi-Strong. Epi will be run at 15mg per day split into an AM dose and a PM dose. I'll also be using Forged Liver Support, Forged Burner, and Metformin 500mg tablets. For PCT, I'll be using Bridge.

Feel free to comment, inquire, critique, etc. Here's to gaining some LBM

 

[RottenWillow]

Hi Ladies,

I wanted to start this log for those who are interested in Epi-Strong. I am already a member on this site under a different name, but for security reasons I'll be keeping track of my Epi-Strong cycle under this user name. For starters, a little about me:

• Mid-twenties
• 5'3", 134lbs
• 14.5% BF
• Training seriously for 3 years (that includes nutrition) but have lifted since I was 15 or so.
• Genetically speaking, I am a meso.
• Current calories are at about 1800-2200/day depending on what I'm lifting.
• No cardio.
• just competed in my first figure comp, unfortunately lost a lot of size during the prep and im ready for a productive off season.

I'll also be keeping track of other supporting supplements I'm stacking along with the Epi-Strong. Epi will be run at 15mg per day split into an AM dose and a PM dose. I'll also be using Forged Liver Support, Forged Burner, and Metformin 500mg tablets. For PCT, I'll be using Bridge.

Feel free to comment, inquire, critique, etc. Here's to gaining some LBM

Excellent! Please log regularly. There will be a lot of people reading this one.

Why the metformin? Do you have type 2 diabetes?

 

[Rebecca D]

I am psyched about your log.

RD

 

[Amaryllis]

No, I'm using it along with my high carb meals for shuttling Mainly used with breakfast, post workouts and cheat meals.

 

[Amaryllis]

After 5 days on Epistrong this is what I have noticed:

• crazy pumps, especially in my forearms.
• energy and stamina up in the gym
• I'm eating a caloric excess but I'm still VERY hungry the past few days.
• Harder feeling
• Already noticing an increase in libido so far. I'm sure the BF doesnt mind lol. Also, some pretty "detailed" dreams occuring more frequntly than usual.
• Can't give you a definitive report on weight gain... had a pizza cheat night yum. But toward the end of next week I'll have a more accurate number for you guys.
• Doesn't seem to be any water retention.
• Slight acne on face this week, but I'm acne prone anyway- could be just a breakout. Usually my breakouts last only a few days so we'll see.

 

[Rebecca D]

Your description sounds almost identical to where I was after about 10 days. Sounds good so far. Do keep an eye (or ear) on your voice though.

RD

 

[RottenWillow]

That androgenic stuff is great for blowing up the appetite.

 

[Amaryllis]

Things are going well. This is day #12 on the epi. So far:

- Still pretty hungry
- Feel pumps longer/more intense
- Couple pimples on face still
- Noticed one on my back yesterday, boo
- Weight is up to 138-39 (from 134) and bf is up about .5% (from 14.5, my diet could be cleaner)
- Making a lot of strength gains- able to use a heavier weight for more reps than I used to
- As Rebecca D said in her thread, it feels like my sinuses are acting up. I'm watching this closely because I want minimal changes to my voice.

 

[RottenWillow]

Things are going well. This is day #12 on the epi. So far:

- Still pretty hungry
- Feel pumps longer/more intense
- Couple pimples on face still
- Noticed one on my back yesterday, boo
- Weight is up to 138-39 (from 134) and bf is up about .5% (from 14.5, my diet could be cleaner)
- Making a lot of strength gains- able to use a heavier weight for more reps than I used to
- As Rebecca D said in her thread, it feels like my sinuses are acting up. I'm watching this closely because I want minimal changes to my voice.

The acne is most likely to emerge just going on or recently coming off cycle due to hormonal fluctuations. I find that some DDF or Murad sulfur based acne products work great to get me over that stage.


You may already know this, but go easy with the poundage increases. Nearly all AAS do nothing for tendon growth (Deca is an exception), so you can end up with straining them a lot on cycle handling big weights, but the soreness doesn't emerge until after you cycle off.

 

[Amaryllis]

Ok thanks, Willow. I saw a sulfur bar soap recently and I'll pick some of that up. I'll watch the weight increases as well, I have tendonitis in my knees and one elbow so they are already easily irritated!

 

[needtogetaas]

Things are going well. This is day #12 on the epi. So far:

- Still pretty hungry
- Feel pumps longer/more intense
- Couple pimples on face still
- Noticed one on my back yesterday, boo
- Weight is up to 138-39 (from 134) and bf is up about .5% (from 14.5, my diet could be cleaner)
- Making a lot of strength gains- able to use a heavier weight for more reps than I used to
- As Rebecca D said in her thread, it feels like my sinuses are acting up. I'm watching this closely because I want minimal changes to my voice.

Acne-tame one cap a day along with a natural emu oil+tee tree oil mix applied to the skin before bed. you can find products that are nothing but a tee tree oil+emu oil mix on the net or you can buy them and mix them your self. A good 80% emu oil 20% tee tree oil mixed in a small bottle will work fine.

 

[OrbitNutrition.com]

Oh dang im in for this log.

 

[Amaryllis]

Ok, update time. So as of Tuesday I had been running Epistrong for 3 weeks and had been loving it. Acne on the face subsided but still a bit on my shoulders and back. I decided to stop on Tuesday because I really felt that there was a sudden change in my voice. In the weeks prior, from time to time my voice would crack.. like Peter Brady style..lol kind of embarrassing. But at about the 3 week mark, I just felt my voice was deeper. People haven't said anything but I didn't want to take the chance and keep going. So Wednesday I started my PCT with Bridge. Other than the voice, I have put on quite a bit of size. I started at about 134lbs and I'm weighing in at 147 now. BF hasn't gone up too much but I'm not eating the cleanest of diets right now so I know some of the weight is fat. But I went to visit someone yesterday that I hadn't seen in a month and they said, "Wow, I don't mean this in a bad way- but you just look bigger! Especially your arms and shoulders!" So that was nice to hear!
If anyone is considering this product, definitely do your research. Needto has posted a great thread on it and you can learn a lot from it. It's a sticky at the top of the forum- be sure to check it out. This stuff is potent.. If I were to run another cycle I might actually bump down the dose from 15mg/day to 10mg/day. And considering my results with only about a 75% clean diet- the potential for some awesome lean gains with fat loss is huge.

 

[Rebecca D]

I said this before, but your results are almost identical to mine. It was after three weeks when I felt that the voice was consistently raspy. Maybe three weeks is a good stopping point??? I am still very curious about pulsing epi for women and if that lessens the voice issues.

Rebecca D

 

[Rebecca D]

Any update on your log. Still interested.

RD

 

[Amaryllis]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on in a while.. been really busy. I've been off the epi for 4 weeks as of tomorrow and I've been using bridge, I'm sitting around 142lbs, was 134ish before cycle. My voice didn't stay as raspy as it was, so I'm glad. I'm actually considering starting it again at a lesser dose- probably 10mg a day instead. Kinda nervous about the voice though. Rebecca D, what were you thinking about pulsing? Most of my gains happened in 2 weeks.. so maybe 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off?

 

[Island_Girl]

Excellent log! Very detailed and informative.

Do you have before and after pictures you can post? I understand for security reasons you can block your face. I'm just very interested in "seeing" the results as well.

 

[needtogetaas]

A couple of things to think about ladies.

1. Go with a 2nd week load up then taper down stile if you are finding that going past 4 weeks is when most sides set in. Start off with with 10mg every day the first week, kick it up to 20-30mg every day spread out the 2nd week ( often the best gains week take advantage) then drop back down to 10mg a day for the 3rd week and 5mg a day for the 4th week.

I must stress that not only is bridge the best pct but so is Need2slin!!!!!!!!!! Please start using this product in your pct you will thank me. This is going to help you hold more of
the muscle weight and drop BF% by a lot. The best way to use this product is to start the need2slin the 2nd week of the cycle and then run it str8 through to the end of pct. 1 cap 3 times a day 30 mins before meals. The first week on the N2slin you will notice ( most people( a increase to overall body weight and some woman think its fat or bloat but really its glycogen and ATP stores filling up in the muscles. This is evident in the large increase you get to muscle "endurance strength" . The product will speed up nutrition uptake/retention and cause your body to have a better insulin spike after every meal ( the way your body should be but even better) . This funneling proteins,carbs, and nutrients to the muscles and organs they need to at not only a faster rate but more effective level too. By starting the product on the 2nd week of the cycle you will not only add more gains to the end of the cycle but also retain more gainst after the cycle as well as prevent the dreaded BF% rebound effect that happens during a female PCT

 

[Amaryllis]

Needto,
I found that the 3 week mark was where I was noticing the most sides. How would you suggest going about the load/taper for a 3 week period?

 

[RottenWillow]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on in a while.. been really busy. I've been off the epi for 4 weeks as of tomorrow and I've been using bridge, I'm sitting around 142lbs, was 134ish before cycle. My voice didn't stay as raspy as it was, so I'm glad. I'm actually considering starting it again at a lesser dose- probably 10mg a day instead. Kinda nervous about the voice though. Rebecca D, what were you thinking about pulsing? Most of my gains happened in 2 weeks.. so maybe 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off?

What happened in the second two weeks? You know when you first go on much of that size jump is just additional glycogen and water in the muscles, not actual new muscle tissue. If the compound is a DHT derivative (cant remember if Ep is or not) they'll be an addendant pop in strength too that also has nothing to do with actual new muscle. The real muscle gains will come later.

Mini cycling might be a good idea. An alternative might be go back in at a lower dose to run a longer continuous cycle and just make sure you resist the urge to bump it for bigger gains. You did discover something valuable already though. You found the point with this compound where you get "spillover", so you know the threshold to stay below.

 

[sbt2082]

good advice RW!! would be interested to hear needto's thoughts on that too

 

[Amaryllis]

What happened in the second two weeks? You know when you first go on much of that size jump is just additional glycogen and water in the muscles, not actual new muscle tissue. If the compound is a DHT derivative (cant remember if Ep is or not) they'll be an addendant pop in strength too that also has nothing to do with actual new muscle. The real muscle gains will come later.

Mini cycling might be a good idea. An alternative might be go back in at a lower dose to run a longer continuous cycle and just make sure you resist the urge to bump it for bigger gains. You did discover something valuable already though. You found the point with this compound where you get "spillover", so you know the threshold to stay below.

Thanks RW.. The third week there were less dramatic increases in weight gain and my hunger seemed to calm down a bit.. I was ravenous the first two weeks! The the fouth week I switched over to bridge. I've maintained a lot of fullness, very noticable in shoulders and triceps (yay! weak spots!)

I actually started the epi back up yesterday and I'll be trying 10mg/day instead of 15mg/day. Hopefully that will allow me to run it longer than 3 weeks this time without any voice issues getting in the way.

 

[.J.P.]

What happened in the second two weeks? You know when you first go on much of that size jump is just additional glycogen and water in the muscles, not actual new muscle tissue. If the compound is a DHT derivative (cant remember if Ep is or not) they'll be an addendant pop in strength too that also has nothing to do with actual new muscle. The real muscle gains will come later.

Mini cycling might be a good idea. An alternative might be go back in at a lower dose to run a longer continuous cycle and just make sure you resist the urge to bump it for bigger gains. You did discover something valuable already though. You found the point with this compound where you get "spillover", so you know the threshold to stay below.

GOD WHY CANT MORE KNOW THIS COMMON INFO!!!

THANK YOU!
you should sticky just that comment in a newbie section.

 

[.J.P.]

BTW I do liek thsi stuff, usign it now as a kick start to cycle of 1-testcyp and test.
but I am a male so i guess I cant innput more here but. you will prob see best gains with a lower dose but for a longer run of it.

 

[Island_Girl]

Great advice RW!

 

[RottenWillow]

Thanks RW.. The third week there were less dramatic increases in weight gain and my hunger seemed to calm down a bit.. I was ravenous the first two weeks! The the fouth week I switched over to bridge. I've maintained a lot of fullness, very noticable in shoulders and triceps (yay! weak spots!)

I actually started the epi back up yesterday and I'll be trying 10mg/day instead of 15mg/day. Hopefully that will allow me to run it longer than 3 weeks this time without any voice issues getting in the way.

I like that plan. I suspect that you'll see some real, substantial size gains over the long haul.

I've got the same two weak areas, delts and tris. Arms overall are weak points, but generally the tris are really stubborn. You might want to look at the possibly that you're over training delts and tris. I found that when I dropped volume they finally grew. Remember delts get hit pretty hard whenever you bench and when you work them directly. Tris get worked whenever you bench, do overhead presses for delts and when you work them directly, so they really get worked quite a lot.

 

[jbryand101b]

I just want to point this out, epi is a great lean mass builder. but for the women, I would really have to recomend a non dht derivative, such as helladrol, which is a derivative of testosterone, and the 4 chloro prevents aromatization, as well as interaction with the 5a reductase enzyme, preventing a more androgenic compound from metabolizing.

Just something the think about. the gains from cdma (helladrol) will be just as easy to maintain, but with less chance of androgenic sides.

another thing, the steroid hella can convert to is oral turinabol, and was documented by vida to have the lowest androgenic rating of all steroids, zero.

for men, helladrol comes with enough to dose it at 75mg (3 caps e/d) for 6 weeeks. women would probably need 25-50mg.

if you guys need more info, please feel free to pm me with any aas/ph questions you may have, i'll try to answer them the best I can.

another thing to think about will be the soon to be released product from needto called clorothoxy, a transdermal products containing both max lmg & non methylated halodrol. look for my log to be here soon as I will be beta testing it out.

 

[Rebecca D]

Glad to see you are back. I've put using the epi off at least until the winter. I'm currently working with Omega and trying a rev things up with a change in workout and diet. So far its kicking my butt. As for pulsing the epi, I haven't done enough research to have an educated opinion. What little I have read suggested 2 weeks on two weeks off. Right now you are better off listening to Needto and Willow.

Rebecca D

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on in a while.. been really busy. I've been off the epi for 4 weeks as of tomorrow and I've been using bridge, I'm sitting around 142lbs, was 134ish before cycle. My voice didn't stay as raspy as it was, so I'm glad. I'm actually considering starting it again at a lesser dose- probably 10mg a day instead. Kinda nervous about the voice though. Rebecca D, what were you thinking about pulsing? Most of my gains happened in 2 weeks.. so maybe 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off?

 

[sbt2082]

I like that plan. I suspect that you'll see some real, substantial size gains over the long haul.

I've got the same two weak areas, delts and tris. Arms overall are weak points, but generally the tris are really stubborn. You might want to look at the possibly that you're over training delts and tris. I found that when I dropped volume they finally grew. Remember delts get hit pretty hard whenever you bench and when you work them directly. Tris get worked whenever you bench, do overhead presses for delts and when you work them directly, so they really get worked quite a lot.

All very good points, but especially on the tris. The one off season where I actually had the MOST improvement on my arms, both going off of what I noticed and what people commented on, was the same off season in which I did NOOOOO direct arm work in my workouts.

 

[Amaryllis]

Little update for you...About a week in on my second cycle with Epi. I woke up this morning with the sinus-y feeling. No scratchiness in voice or anything, but sinuses were the first indicator last time. Feeling warm and hungry - definitely run a few degrees higher on this.

Did delts and tris today, its been about a week since I trained them. I was training them 2x week, but wanted to back off them as suggested and see how they would respond. HUGE HUGE HUGE pumps. Feel good overall!

 

[Rebecca D]

That "sinus" feeling was the beginning of the minor vioce issues for me. Also, it came on a little quicker the second time I used the epi. Keep us updated as to what happens when you pulse.

Good Luck

Rebecca D

 

[Amaryllis]

Came on quicker for me too. I got the sinus issues around day 12 the first time. Instead of pulsing I'll be running a constant 10mg/day rather than 15 like before. Might even bump it down a bit more?

 

[RottenWillow]

Came on quicker for me too. I got the sinus issues around day 12 the first time. Instead of pulsing I'll be running a constant 10mg/day rather than 15 like before. Might even bump it down a bit more?

If you can, yes that might be prudent. Are they 10mg tabs? If so maybe grab a $5 pill cutter and take .5 tabs 3x daily. Run like that until you're certain you've plateaued, then bump to 10mg daily.

 

[Blondie85]

That "sinus" feeling was the beginning of the minor vioce issues for me. Also, it came on a little quicker the second time I used the epi. Keep us updated as to what happens when you pulse.

Good Luck

Rebecca D

Good to know.

 

[Amaryllis]

If you can, yes that might be prudent. Are they 10mg tabs? If so maybe grab a $5 pill cutter and take .5 tabs 3x daily. Run like that until you're certain you've plateaued, then bump to 10mg daily.

Unfortunately they are capsules.. makes things kinda tricky

 

[Amaryllis]

Is there a way for me to attach a .jpeg picture to this??

 

[Roxy722]

When you`re posting your reply there`s a little paper clip on the tool bar, right next to the happy face...that should do it.

 

[Amaryllis]

Oh, how silly. I didn't even notice that. I was trying to "insert image" and pulling my hair out b/c it wanted me to have a website address. Haha... open your eyes!

Anyway, I thought I'd share with you guys a progress picture. The first half is from the beginning of my first Epi cycle in August and the second half was taken October, 12 which was about a week into my second cycle. Go easy on me..

 

[RottenWillow]

Oh, how silly. I didn't even notice that. I was trying to "insert image" and pulling my hair out b/c it wanted me to have a website address. Haha... open your eyes!

Anyway, I thought I'd share with you guys a progress picture. The first half is from the beginning of my first Epi cycle in August and the second half was taken October, 12 which was about a week into my second cycle. Go easy on me..

Hard to tell precisely the nature of the change in the pics, but you do appear thicker in the second shot. Do you have any additional pics and/or estimates of your body comp in the pics?

 

[Amaryllis]

Hard to tell precisely the nature of the change in the pics, but you do appear thicker in the second shot. Do you have any additional pics and/or estimates of your body comp in the pics?

I think I was 136# and 15% bf in the first pic and in the second I'm about 146# and 17.3%. So thats about 4.6# of fat and 5.4# muscle. Diet was pretty high carb and wasn't doing cardio.

Waiting for need2slin to arrive so I can add that in, using metformin for now. I ordered the katanadrol today, will be starting it next wednesday. Diet has been more carb controlled (but not low carb by any means) and have added in 2 cardio sessions/week. I'm excited for more lean gains and I'll be avoiding the urge to stuff my face so much this time through lol Hopefully the katana will drown out the hunger a bit from the Epi!

 

[Roxy722]

I think I was 136# and 15% bf in the first pic and in the second I'm about 146# and 17.3%. So thats about 4.6# of fat and 5.4# muscle. Diet was pretty high carb and wasn't doing cardio.

Waiting for need2slin to arrive so I can add that in, using metformin for now. I ordered the katanadrol today, will be starting it next wednesday. Diet has been more carb controlled (but not low carb by any means) and have added in 2 cardio sessions/week. I'm excited for more lean gains and I'll be avoiding the urge to stuff my face so much this time through lol Hopefully the katana will drown out the hunger a bit from the Epi!

Pretty good!! I can't wait to see how you do with the Katanadrol..I will definitely be following along.

 

[Amaryllis]

Ughh frustrated. I made it to three weeks last time with the Epi before the voice thing made me nervous enough to stop. I was spliting one cap into two daily doses (15mg total). Tomorrow will be the two week mark for the second cycle at a reduced amount- 1/2 a cap per day. Needless to say, I feel like my voice is right where it was at the three week mark last time. I thought it was just me being nervous and over analyzing, but I was talking to my mother on the phone and she said.. "did you just wake up or are you sick? You sound tired, your voice is scratchy." Damn.

I don't know, maybe is just better off. I've put on a decent amount of muscle and with figure becoming more of a streamlined look, maybe I should just maintain what I have now, see what it looks like in competition shape and go from there. Tomorrow may very well be my last day on Epi for a while.

I'm still going to start the katana tomorrow and focus on leaning out a bit and get some of the fluff off. I've actually been wanting to try Scott Abel's Super Compensation diet approach. I'll keep updating with katana and body composition results.

 

[Roxy722]

Ughh frustrated. I made it to three weeks last time with the Epi before the voice thing made me nervous enough to stop. I was spliting one cap into two daily doses (15mg total). Tomorrow will be the two week mark for the second cycle at a reduced amount- 1/2 a cap per day. Needless to say, I feel like my voice is right where it was at the three week mark last time. I thought it was just me being nervous and over analyzing, but I was talking to my mother on the phone and she said.. "did you just wake up or are you sick? You sound tired, your voice is scratchy." Damn.

I don't know, maybe is just better off. I've put on a decent amount of muscle and with figure becoming more of a streamlined look, maybe I should just maintain what I have now, see what it looks like in competition shape and go from there. Tomorrow may very well be my last day on Epi for a while.

I'm still going to start the katana tomorrow and focus on leaning out a bit and get some of the fluff off. I've actually been wanting to try Scott Abel's Super Compensation diet approach. I'll keep updating with katana and body composition results.

It sucks but not worth the voice changes imo. I know that feeling though of trying to decide...do I stop or try just one more day? lol

I've read a lot of Scott Abel's stuff but never been able to find the diet (for free). I'd definitely be interested to hear what you think and if you try it out. I really like a lot of his writing.

 

[RottenWillow]

Ughh frustrated. I made it to three weeks last time with the Epi before the voice thing made me nervous enough to stop. I was spliting one cap into two daily doses (15mg total). Tomorrow will be the two week mark for the second cycle at a reduced amount- 1/2 a cap per day. Needless to say, I feel like my voice is right where it was at the three week mark last time. I thought it was just me being nervous and over analyzing, but I was talking to my mother on the phone and she said.. "did you just wake up or are you sick? You sound tired, your voice is scratchy." Damn.

I don't know, maybe is just better off. I've put on a decent amount of muscle and with figure becoming more of a streamlined look, maybe I should just maintain what I have now, see what it looks like in competition shape and go from there. Tomorrow may very well be my last day on Epi for a while.

I'm still going to start the katana tomorrow and focus on leaning out a bit and get some of the fluff off. I've actually been wanting to try Scott Abel's Super Compensation diet approach. I'll keep updating with katana and body composition results.

It's always a crapshoot. This is a good thread to link to newbies who ask about sides because the answer is you just never know.

Katana could be an anabolic (read: muscle building) option for you that would be less likely to be virilizing. I know it's marketed as a conditioning compound, but then so is Winnie in smaller doses. Might be something to consider. I'd think higher doses would be required.

 

[Rebecca D]

I'm glad you were aware of what was happening. Many women write it off as alergies and keep going until it is too late. Most times your voice will not return to normal. It is a shame, because the epi does get results.

Rebecca D