Am I Overtraining?

[Buddybot111]

I always seem to have this tired feeling during the day. In general I just seem to have less energy than I used to have when I weighed more (I've gone from 210 to 148 pounds and my goal is to see my abs). I'm 5'6". It's weird though because once I start exercising for 5-10 minutes I seem to get all my energy back, and my "tiredness" definitely doesn't effect my ability to perform while at the gym. But, it does get annoying when I have to walk more slowly up the steps or don't jump at the chance to sprint and get the mail or walk a few blocks in the city at a decent clip. BTW I have been keeping track of my weight and diet ever since I started switching from a simple eat less methodology (which got me down to around 160) to a real lifestyle change. My fitday log can be seen here: http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=mcFreid.

If your not interested in browsing through my journal here's a quick summary of my weekly routine.

I eat 1750 calories a day split between 5 meals. I eat 50% protein, 30% fat, and 20% carbs.

I lift on Mondays and Thursdays, I do a 1-mile run with cardio on Tuesdays and Fridays, I do a 20min eliptical HIIT with cardio on wed.

The details of my gym routine are as follows:

Mon/Thurs:
Squats (recently started doing 70lb from 60lb)
Deadlifts (recently started doing 70lb from 60lb)
Bench Press (55lb)
Dumbbell Bicep Curls (20lb)
Tricep Rope Extensions (55lb)
Standing Dumbbell Military/Shoulder Press (recently started doing 20lb from 15lb)
Dumbbell Bent-Over Rows (20lb)
Ab Exercises

Tues/Fri:
1mile run (8mph)
20 minute elliptical (70rpm)
10 minute "Alpine Pass" walk (level 5 max incline, 4 mph max speed)
5 minute elliptical HIIT (rest @ 70rpm for 1min sprint @ 90rpm for 1.25min)

Wed:
20 minute elliptical HIIT (rest @ 70rpm for 1min sprint @ 90rpm for 1.25min)
10 minute "Alpine Pass" walk (level 5 max incline, 4 mph max speed)
Sometimes I do a quick run at 8mph for 5 minutes here, but not always

Hopefully that's enough info. If I left anything out or you need to know something just let me know and I'll fill in any gaps.

 

[highlander555]

I understand that at 5'6" you're no giant or anything, but I still can't help thinking that 148 is a little underweight, unless you're a long distance runner or something. And 1750 calories? That's what a chick would normally eat. I don't think you're over training, I just think you're under eating, even if your goal is to see your abs.

But for arguments sake, lets say you're only five feet tall, and 148 is a reasonable weight for you. How long is it taking you to accomplish your lifting sessions on the two days that you lift. If it's taking your more than an hour, you may want to break it up into three days as opposed to two.

I obviously don't know all the specifics of your body type, but I can't help but get the feeling that you've dieted down to the point that your metabolism is in super survival mode and is trying to store as much fat as possible.

Just my two cents, but I wish you luck none the less.

 

[Scotsman]

Eat more!

Try switching up to 40 protein, 30 fat, and 30 carbs. Get your calories up to at least 2,000 per day.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[Buddybot111]

I got advice from these boards around 2 months ago, and the got the same recommendation to eat more. I tried it for 2 weeks and gained weight, that's when I posted here again and got the reply that simply if I'm gaining weight at 2,000 calories the only explanation is that I'm not cutting enough (hence I brought it down to 1750 and have been losing since, though slowly). All of this can be actually be seen on my Fitday because if you look at the first two weeks you'll see that my weight goes up.

As for my lifting sessions, I complete it in about 45 minutes. And at 148 I definitly do NOT feel underweight. There's still a clear amount of fat around my belly. I still have those love handles.

So, to summarize this up. You could be right about the eating thing, but I simply do NOT want to gain weight. I haven't reached my goal yet, and even if it will get me more energy I'd rather lose the weight. So, how do I know if eating more will cause me to gain weight? Some people say it takes a month for your body to adapt back to the increase in calories. I guess you could say that after spending all this time to LOSE the weight, the idea of having to gain some back scares me.

 

[Buddybot111]

Ooh sorry forgot the sets!

3x5 for squats, deadlift, and bench press
3x10 for everything else

 

[highlander555]

Okay, heres the deal. I realize that you may be gaining weight at 2000 calories, and that is definately not what you want. Got it. But I think you're only gaining weight because you've caused your metabolism to slow down so much through over-restricting your calories. I don't think you're overtraining for the average person, but with your amount of calories, you may be. With so few calories, there's no point to lifting anymore because you're body doesn't have the nutrients it needs to add any more muscle. Without more muscle, your metabolism is just going to continue to slow down more and more.

That being said, I'm not recommending you become a huge muscular hulk or anything, but if you're still not losing weight on such a calorie restricted diet and with the amount of carido you're doing, something is seriously wrong. From what you've told us, you should already be in a calorie deficit without having to work out at all. I just don't think you're taking in the calories needed for your body to do anything productive with your workouts.

Think about this: The amount of calories you burn in the gym isn't near as important as the amount of calories you burn outside of the gym (as in your metabolism). Just sitting on the couch doing nothing, your body has to burn so much just to exist.

I just fear that your drastic calorie cutting has put your body into a survival mode that makes it want to store any and all fat it can get its hands on.

There's a really knowledgable chick that post on the womens forum named Tatyana. For a diffrent, and knowledgable prospective, I'd try to get in touch with her with the info you posted here and see what she recommends. She usually has pretty sound advice.

 

[xrsist]

start eating green veggies and up protein

 

[bustak2121]

You should get your body fat % taken, eat more, and continue with your routine. If you are gaining weight, keep track of your BF%. It may not even be fat that the weight is coming from. You could be gaining back the muscle you have lost from the calorie deficit. Also, more muscle gained means your body is more capable of burning fat. Don't let the scale rule your life.

 

[Buddybot111]

I keep hearing to eat more, but no one seems to be able to clarify why that solution would now work when I tried it before for 2 full weeks with seeing nothing but gains in weight. yes it could of been muscle weight, but that still goes against my goal. I want to get leaner, I want to KEEP the muscle, but I do not want to gain weight from additional muscle (hope that makes sense). I'll try to get in touch with this "Tatyana" though like you suggested and see if she could recommend me something a little more detailed.

Thanks much so far though and keep it up! I am definitely learning little pockets of information here and there that hopefully will sum to a comprehensive solution.

 

[nikkita]

Well it seems you're doing a lot with so little calories, this helped at first to achieve a lower body fat %, however now your lacking energy which leads to not recovering properly from one workout to another. I may say yes, you are beginning to overtrain.

The thing is that to boost again your metabolism you need to eat and rest for recovery, if you don't then you may loose weight but mostly muscle.

Remember that there is a hug difference between loosing fat and loosing muscle. Muscle is the one you'll want to preserve.

 

[Mavafanculo]

I'll try to get in touch with this "Tatyana" though like you suggested and see if she could recommend me something a little more detailed.

you make her sound like some sort of robot, or a strange being from another planet. Rather than a person from whom you will be requesting the benefit of her knowledge and time.


getting back to your original question, in addition to always being tired, any other "symptoms"?

- low waking body temperature?
- elevated resting pulse?
- lack of progress on lifts? (needing to use lower weights or plateauing)
- swollen glands?
- hand shakes?
- difficulty falling asleep, or waking up many times in the night?
- loss of appetite?
- increase in belly fat disporportionately greater than elsewhere?

any group of these would tend to indicate that yes, you are overtrained, and time to take a break to allow your nervous system and muscles to recover.

 

[Buddybot111]

It was just a play on words, no seriousness to that sentence .

I'll try to answer what I can. No idea about my "waking body temperature" as I don't take my temp unless I'm sick, should I start? I don't think my resting pulse is elevated, how do you know? At least I definitely don't feel winded simply by sitting if that's what you mean (though my legs do feel heavy and weighted down even while resting). As for swollen glands, I'm not a doctor so I really don't know what to look for in that area, but I haven't noticed any change. My hand doesn't shake. I don't have a difficulty falling asleep but I do wake up at night though its not random (mostly I need to go to the bathroom -- I've started drinking tons more water ever since I started dieting so I go to the bathroom A LOT now). I don't really have a loss of appetite, but I do feel like I eat too much at times even when I know for a fact that the meal is 350 calories. My belly is basically the last place where any fat truly resides (maybe some lingering on my face as well) so its tough to say. I would most certainly confirm that it hasn't increased though, but it definitely doesn't seem to be going away (at least not at the rate it should for the number of calories I eat and the amount I exercise).

 

[highlander555]

I keep hearing to eat more, but no one seems to be able to clarify why that solution would now work when I tried it before for 2 full weeks with seeing nothing but gains in weight. yes it could of been muscle weight, but that still goes against my goal. I want to get leaner, I want to KEEP the muscle, but I do not want to gain weight from additional muscle (hope that makes sense).

First of all, two weeks isn't near long enough to get any results from a new eating or lifting plan. You need to give it at least two MONTHS at a minimum.

Second, if you gain any sort of muscle at all, you WILL gain weight. You have a decent lifting program, but only for someone whose looking to add a little muscle. If you're not looking to do this, why don't you cut back your lifting?

You're abs are msucles too, and if you're so afraid of putting on weight that you avoid adding muscle, you may not be very happy with the little amount of abs you can see, even if you're body fat gets super low.

It just seems like you have an idea in your head about how you want to be and look, but it seems you have some preconcived notions about how to achieve that look that are really holding you back.

If I were you, I'd get myself up to a healthy weight of around 160 (at least) and in the meantime, do some serious nutritional and exercise research. Then after a few months, hopefully you'll be armed with more factual knowledge, not just "I heard this or that is the way to do it" stuff.

Whatever you decide, I wish you luck. (oh, and I'll stop bugging you with opinions you probably don't want to hear )

 

[Scotsman]

I keep hearing to eat more, but no one seems to be able to clarify why that solution would now work when I tried it before for 2 full weeks with seeing nothing but gains in weight. yes it could of been muscle weight, but that still goes against my goal. I want to get leaner, I want to KEEP the muscle, but I do not want to gain weight from additional muscle (hope that makes sense). I'll try to get in touch with this "Tatyana" though like you suggested and see if she could recommend me something a little more detailed.

Thanks much so far though and keep it up! I am definitely learning little pockets of information here and there that hopefully will sum to a comprehensive solution.

How much you weigh doesn't have all that much to do with how lean you are. The weight gain you experienced is most likely do to water retention and muscle growth. There is a huge difference between losing weight and losing fat. You are probably metabolising muscle by having such a restricted calorie intake. So unless you are trying to make weight for something don't worry what the scale says. If you gain muscle it will only help you lean up faster by burning more calories.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[Buddybot111]

Ok, so to summarize I should basically just eat more? Should I switch back to what the calculator recommends and eat 2100 calories (which is after a 500 calorie cut)? And is the deadline, or the look back and review date, 2 months after the switch? Should I ignore the possibly fluctuating results for 2 months? That seems like a long time to ignore the results, but if it's whats needed then I can do that.

 

[nikkita]

The thing is increasing cals but not just like that, if you are overtraining (in my opinion) you should increase your cals for a couple of days --- start with 200-300 cals-- or even have a cheat day... during these days you will also rest and no train, increase also your water intake.... (by the way how much are you consuming?), then train with this new adjustment. Check your progress after 1 week.

 

[Buddybot111]

I drink tons of water! Sometimes I worry too much for how often I have to go to the bathroom because of it. Ok so spend some 3 days or so, maybe this coming weekend, and rest with no exercise while eating around 2000 calories a day. Then go back for one week to exercising while maintaining that 2000 calories per day intake. Check weight after one week. Now my question is, what should I expect after that one week? What if I don't change, what if I gain a significant amount!?

 

[bustak2121]

I would give it more than a week before deciding to go back. As everyone has been saying. If you are eating clean, the only possible way of gaining a lot of weight in a week or two is from water weight...

Scotsman said

"How much you weigh doesn't have all that much to do with how lean you are. The weight gain you experienced is most likely do to water retention and muscle growth. There is a huge difference between losing weight and losing fat. You are probably metabolising muscle by having such a restricted calorie intake. So unless you are trying to make weight for something don't worry what the scale says. If you gain muscle it will only help you lean up faster by burning more calories."

 

[Buddybot111]

When should I stop worrying?

 

[HAYEZ]

I keep hearing to eat more, but no one seems to be able to clarify why that solution would now work when I tried it before for 2 full weeks with seeing nothing but gains in weight. yes it could of been muscle weight, but that still goes against my goal. I want to get leaner, I want to KEEP the muscle, but I do not want to gain weight from additional muscle (hope that makes sense). I'll try to get in touch with this "Tatyana" though like you suggested and see if she could recommend me something a little more detailed.

Thanks much so far though and keep it up! I am definitely learning little pockets of information here and there that hopefully will sum to a comprehensive solution.

you were probally holding water from the increase in carbs..onmce your body gets used to it you will lose it...the carbs you are eating are they low complex carbs?...you eat 1 meal with shitty carbs you will bloat all day

 

[nikkita]

When should I stop worrying?

In the case, if you are overtrained what you will feel with more energy and may or may not experience is a light increase in weight... this will be muscle weight because they wil look fuller, bf% should be the same... because you are recovering from overtraining. You can either check progress after 1-2 week.

 

[Tatyana]

Hi,

We are not far off the same size, I am 5'4" (almost) and I weigh around 145 lbs.

My competition diet is 1800 kcals/day. I am often tired on it because is it quite a low number of calories to be eating for the training I am doing.

When you say you are gaining weight, do you know what the weight is?

How much weight are we talking about?

As you are on a very low carb diet, it is quite easy to add about 3-5 lbs overnight with water and glycogen stores.

Is it fat, water, muscle or other lean tissue (training also increases bone, tendons, ligaments)

The idea of most trainining is that you will put on muscle, take off fat, or recomposition your body.

This does frustrate a lot of people who diet and train, they want to see the numbers on the scale go down, and they don't, they sometimes increase.

Also why the low carbs?

How long have you been on low carbs?

Do you have re-feeds/high carb days?

Do you have a cheat meal a week?

 

[Buddybot111]

I do not know what kind of weight I'm gaining. It is a problem I know! But I just don't want to constantly shell out more money to get my body fat percentage checked every week and I'm hesitant to do it myself because I constantly hear of the variable and unreliable results :/

It is very frustrating to see my weight go up because of how hard I work to lower it. It is probably, in fact I'm sure it is, a mental problem of mine that I care so much about losing the weight more than the type of weight I am losing. I think it is because it is a goal that I can keep track of and record unlike body composition. Either way, the fact is I still feel fat (and look fat in some places such as my stomach and "love handles") so losing weight for me is definitely still my major goal. I am so used to trying to drive conversations away from any discussion regarding eachother's weight: I think it is this that makes me want to keep losing the weight. I want to be asked the question "how much do you weigh?" and be proud of the answer I give.

Why the low carbs? I guess it just made sence to me. In the end I don't think it is because of necessarily the myth of carbs are the devil more than it is the fact that I am an all or nothing type of person. For me to say carbs are ok and then simply limit the amount is much harder than for me to just say no to carbs and limit it wherever I can.

Because of the same mentality I just mentioned I do not have any re-feed, high carb, cheat days, or whatever you call it. Even the slightest screw up irritates me and makes me feel extremely guilty. The idea of having just one small cheat meal freaks me out.

With that said I've been reducing my amount of carbs since the beggining. I'm not sure what you would consider "low carbs" and I didn't even start counting calories and macronutrient ratios until my Fitday profile. So, my best guess for how long I truly am positive I've been on a low carb diet is for 3 months, a little longer than the origination of my Fitday.

Thanks for getting back to me btw! Just from the questions you ask I am confident that I can learn a lot from this conversation and look forward to its continuation!

 

[BMK792]

imo more cals and see how that goes for you after a couple of weeks with your routine

also scales arnt always the best measurement of progress

 

[Tatyana]

I do not know what kind of weight I'm gaining. It is a problem I know! But I just don't want to constantly shell out more money to get my body fat percentage checked every week and I'm hesitant to do it myself because I constantly hear of the variable and unreliable results :/

If you need a 'reality check' which a lot of people do try using a combo of a couple of things:

1. the scale

2. Calipers - you can get cheap ones called accumeasures, one site, but you can pinch several sites with them and plug the measurements you get into on-line calculators, anywhere from 3-7 sites are used

3. Tape measure - this one is great, I usually take measurements minimum once a year, now more often, it is great when you find out that you weigh the same as a year ago, but your hips are 2" smaller, calves 2" bigger, biceps 1" bigger

4. Photos - every 2 weeks to a month, and if you still can't see a difference, get someone with a skilled eye to look at them

It is very frustrating to see my weight go up because of how hard I work to lower it. It is probably, in fact I'm sure it is, a mental problem of mine that I care so much about losing the weight more than the type of weight I am losing. I think it is because it is a goal that I can keep track of and record unlike body composition. Either way, the fact is I still feel fat (and look fat in some places such as my stomach and "love handles") so losing weight for me is definitely still my major goal. I am so used to trying to drive conversations away from any discussion regarding eachother's weight: I think it is this that makes me want to keep losing the weight. I want to be asked the question "how much do you weigh?" and be proud of the answer I give.

Fat around the abs/back is often the last place to go on people, especially men. It can be hormonally related, cortisol and insulin.

Cortisol is the stress hormone, and low calories and over-training are big stressors on the body.

Why the low carbs? I guess it just made sence to me. In the end I don't think it is because of necessarily the myth of carbs are the devil more than it is the fact that I am an all or nothing type of person. For me to say carbs are ok and then simply limit the amount is much harder than for me to just say no to carbs and limit it wherever I can.

It is more about calories in - calories out really.

I would recommend you get a copy of the e-book by Tom Venuto, Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle.

Because of the same mentality I just mentioned I do not have any re-feed, high carb, cheat days, or whatever you call it. Even the slightest screw up irritates me and makes me feel extremely guilty. The idea of having just one small cheat meal freaks me out.

Low carbs is known to suppress the thyroid, and your body will adapt to a lower calorie diet, slowing the metabolism and any fat loss.

Low carbs is really a BBing comp prep diet, not a lifestyle diet. And even when BBers use this diet, they have a re-feed or cheat meal at least once a week so they don't slow down their metabolism.



I would do some more reading about metabolism and dieting.

I have put up some good articles in the women's section in one of the stickies called dieting information.

With that said I've been reducing my amount of carbs since the beggining. I'm not sure what you would consider "low carbs" and I didn't even start counting calories and macronutrient ratios until my Fitday profile. So, my best guess for how long I truly am positive I've been on a low carb diet is for 3 months, a little longer than the origination of my Fitday.

I didn't look on your fitday, how many grams of carbs are you eating?

There is also a tendency of dieters to over estimate how much they are eating, (and fat people to underestimate). Are you weighing things?

Thanks for getting back to me btw! Just from the questions you ask I am confident that I can learn a lot from this conversation and look forward to its continuation!

Again, the scales can really mess with your mind.

I was recovering from an injury this time last year and had had a long break from training.

I weigh the same now as I did then, but a year ago I was a little chubbette, and right now I am starting to look quite athletic and 'hard'.

I am not sure why you want to weigh less, you don't weigh a huge amount for your height.

I think you need to get the numbers thing out of your mind and start focusing on the fact you want to take off some bodyfat, which is a completely different kettle of fish.

 

[Buddybot111]

I eat anywhere from 80 to 120 grams of carbs a day. If I am estimating (which I may do for dinner on some nights) I do as you say dieters do and tend to overestimate as I would rather undereat than overeat. With that said though I am fairly accurate in my measurements as I simply pay attention to labels and serving sizes and divide proportionally (for example if one packet of carved chicken breasts has 3 servings I know to take one third of that will equal the nutritional value given on the back of the box). In the rare cause I do have to weigh things I use a mechanical scale, though will probably be upgrading to a digital scale in due time.

I know I do not weigh a huge amount for my weight, but I am definitly not "lean" either. I am going to upload a few pics (as I have been taking pictures) to give you an idea of what I look like and where I'm going.

As for not worrying about the scale, the fact is I do not think I can do that. The scale is what drives me to reach my goals. Seeing that change is a result for me and I need to constantly be seeing it and recording it. Nothing is as reliable at least in its consistency for measurement so for example if I went with calipers I could never be sure the reason for a difference in measurement. That kind of doubt would eat at me.

Overall I will take in everything you have said and try to start making changes here and there (maybe adding some Irish oatmeal to my diet to start).