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tryptophan is quite effective as a sleep aid... there are a number of companies that would loathe its return.. this MAY have played a role.. perhaps.. though FDA ego may also be to blame
All please read! Once and For All: "Scientific Evidence"
- Thread starter buffdoc
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Silent Method
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Good post. Keep in mind as well, that in true science there is no such thing as fact - only probability.
I think part of buffdoc's point is that hard scientific support for an idea is great, but using the cloak of "science" to argue against observable, real world phenomena is ignorant.
I think part of buffdoc's point is that hard scientific support for an idea is great, but using the cloak of "science" to argue against observable, real world phenomena is ignorant.
SofaGeorge
New member
Great post.
boldman, just once, try understanding what you read before opening your mouth.
This is an excellant post. It's also something that I've tried to get across to people for years. Just because something hasn't been stated in a study doesn't mean it isn't true. People will ignore logic in the absence of any "clinical stdies." It works the other way around too. If some researcher makes a deduction, it's treated as indisputable proof.
There's so much that still isn't known. Until then, I'll continue to examine the reasearch, but I'll take common sense, experience and real world evidence over a research study every time.
This is an excellant post. It's also something that I've tried to get across to people for years. Just because something hasn't been stated in a study doesn't mean it isn't true. People will ignore logic in the absence of any "clinical stdies." It works the other way around too. If some researcher makes a deduction, it's treated as indisputable proof.
There's so much that still isn't known. Until then, I'll continue to examine the reasearch, but I'll take common sense, experience and real world evidence over a research study every time.
Silent Method
New member
Nelson, I think you contribute a great deal to this board. That being said, I find your statement ironic in light of the way your products are marketed.Nelson Montana said:
Silent: I guess the irony is lost on me.
First of all, what products? I'm a writer.
Secondly, when have I presented a research study as proof of my methods? For the most part, the concepts I present in The Bodybuilding Truth, whether or not one is in agreement with them, are based on exactly on what I said -- logic, experience an real world evidence, not the retiteration of any studies. I think those who have read my book will bear me out.
First of all, what products? I'm a writer.
Secondly, when have I presented a research study as proof of my methods? For the most part, the concepts I present in The Bodybuilding Truth, whether or not one is in agreement with them, are based on exactly on what I said -- logic, experience an real world evidence, not the retiteration of any studies. I think those who have read my book will bear me out.
40butpumpin
New member
Nelson Montana said:
Well said, NM.
Buffdoc, excellent post, I couldn't agree more. I usually take what the medical powers-that-be say with a grain of salt. In fact when ever I see the result of 'a new study' I immediately question what their motives are. I believe the pharmaceutical industry is behind 99.99% of the corruption and misinformation. It's sure refreshing -- and shocking to be honest -- to see an MD willing to admit these things. Thanks for the post.
Silent Method
New member
Yes, you are a writer. Your written word, book and articles, are your products.Nelson Montana said:
Look, I have not read your book or your articles. I probably will one day. I may find that they are the most valuable little treasures of bodybuilding information conceivable. The value of the information you present, as well as the methods which you have used to arrive at and support the information in your products is of no debate here.
What I don't like is the way your main product "The Bodybuilding Truth" is marketed here and on your website.
You agreed with the theme of this thread - " Just because something hasn't been stated in a study doesn't mean it isn't true." You added that "it works the other way around too," and that simply forming a conclusion through observation and reasoning (deduction) often proves erroneous as well.
Forgive me if the irony is lost on you, but to assert that there are a secret and rock solid set of bodybuilding truths set forth unequivocally in your book is in conflict with what you have agreed to in this thread.
Nelson, I understand that you have done your best to present truthful and valuable information to your readers, but it is the marketing hype surrounding your which I object to.
Remember, sir, that I may find your book to be great. I may read it one day and find that I agree with every point you make. I may put it in practice and find that every principle works well. However, the tone set by the advertisements is absurd. The very realistic prospect of finding within your book a good deal of wonderful information, coupled with the slurry of obnoxious marketing hype surrounding it, causes insult to my brain.
SofaGeorge
New member
Silent Method said:
Silent, I haven't read Nelson's book yet... but I give him credit for starting serveral of the most thought provoking threads we've had in a long time.
Hype is hype. It can be used to sell snow to Eskimos... but only for a short time.
Nelson has brought us far more than one truly original and insightful ideas. He can't be accused of selling snow to Eskimos at this point.
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