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Alcohol?
- Thread starter hallow
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athlete.03
New member
One of the basic rules of AAS is don't mix alcohol and 17-aa (which includes var) ever.
swordfish151
New member
You shouldnt drink while on ANY AAS...just defeats the ENTIRE purpose.
boy i may get killed for it based on the answers above but you CAN get away with it...you wont die and your liver wont fail....you know if your cycling then your obviosuly wanting to be in good all around shape and that includes all aspects of life, what we do is a life style and you need to decide what is more important a few drinks or the hard work you've been putting in the gym...i think you know the answer, dont take 2 steps forward to take 3 back.....again if you did it you wont die but i advise a different route....
I'd keep your drinking very low. The risks of the liver are not worth it. I understand you have obligations to entertain your clients but I'd keep it at a min. I'd probably also make sure I switched drinks, beer / water / beer / water.
Becareful bro
Becareful bro
digimon7068
New member
Var is 17aa so, yes.
wayneboard1
New member
hallow said:
So you entertain, where does it say you MUST drink? What this boils down too is weather or not you want to drink. It is possible to entertain and have a great time doing so without any alcohol; I've done it many a time.
If you are entertaining people that are so bothered by you not drinking, well screw them. Either that or make up a lie. Tell them...."I am having some acid reflux issues and my dr told me to stay away from the booze for a few months. No big deal, but I do miss my (insert favorite drink here) !"
It's not a big deal really, and you can easily get away with it. If you continue to ask why this and why that on this topic, my only conclusion is that you can't not drink, and there is the real problem.
Bottom line; no booze when on cycle. Period.
wayneboard1
New member
dullboy said:
So is putting a gun in ones mouth and pulling the trigger. However most intelligent people would agree that isn't the wisest course of action, and the same applies here.
dullboy
New member
wayneboard1 said:So is putting a gun in ones mouth and pulling the trigger. However most intelligent people would agree that isn't the wisest course of action, and the same applies here.
dullboy says it's specious reasoning to compare drinking some booze and shooting yourself in the head.
*wink*
1 glass of red wine with diner while on var................harder on the liver, good for cholesterol.
You can have a virgin whatever & no one needs to know but you and your bartender. Or, you could tell everyone you're on a strong coarse of antibiotics so you can't partake at that time. Hell, there are a million excuses if you don't want to. Or you coudl get one and make it las all night.
You can have a virgin whatever & no one needs to know but you and your bartender. Or, you could tell everyone you're on a strong coarse of antibiotics so you can't partake at that time. Hell, there are a million excuses if you don't want to. Or you coudl get one and make it las all night.
wayneboard1
New member
dullboy said:
Some prefer a quick death and some prefer a slow death. So I guess you are right, it is a personal choice.
nautica
New member
Xenobiotic Metabolism
Xenobiotic Metabolism (basically drug metabolism, esp. breakdown) is carried out by enzymes, mainly in the liver, but also in the lung, kidneys, GI tract and skin. There are 3 phases in the in xenobiotic metabolism from the initial activation or deactivation to the final transport and clearance.
Phase 1 = functionalism or introducing a polar group to the molecule in order for the drug to be brought into cells and/or organelles.
Phase 2 = conjugation or coupling of a typically polar group to the molecule (the addition of the polar group will later be used in transport)
Phase 3 = Transport or altering localization of the molecule. i.e. Renal or biliary excretion.
Depending on the type of molecule (polar/nonpolar, ect...) the drug may or may not have to enter phase 1, it could start off in phase II, or III for that matter if it is a polar molecule and transportable. As we know, steroids are a class of large mostly non polar molecule, so they must be initiated in phase I.
Cytochrome P450 is the largest superfamily of Phase I enzymes, currently known. P450 has evolved along with humans, mainly for the purpose of endogenous steroid and arachidonic acid metabolism but as man began to partake in drugs, they assumed the role of exogenous drug metabolism and also exogenous steroids.
Fortunately, we also have other types of phase I enzymes such as Alcohol and aldehyde dehydrogenases. As alcohol is introduced into the body, it is brought into the cytosol, mainly in the parenchymal cells of the liver. At this time Alcohol dehydrogenase converts the alchohols to acetic aldehyde, which is perfectly fine. But, then the acetic aldehyde is shunted into the mitochondria, where it is converted to acetic acid, which is toxic. In this case, to the liver. At which time, it does its damage and moves on into Phase II metabolism.
So, at this time it does not appear that there would be a conflict. At least not on a cellular level. Right? Not neccessarily. For high levels of alcohol intake or alcoholics the Cytocrome P450 family also contributes to the phase I metabolism of alcohol, which, if you will recall, is what metabolizes steroids in phase I.
It does not appear that there is significant direct conflict in Phase II and III; however, as these drugs move through the metabolic phases they will cause necrosis on a gross scale, which will put an increased burden on the remaining tissues for the clearance of the drugs.
THIS IS A SIDE NOTE BUT IS OF EXTREME CLINICAL SIGNIFICANCE. PHASE I METABOLISM OF ACETAMINOPHEN WILL ACTIVATE 5% OF ACETAMINOPHEN, WHICH WILL ALSO HAVE TO BE CLEARED BYE CYTOCHROME P450. THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS STUDIES SHOWING THE EXTREME DANGERS OF ACETAMINOPHEN BY ITSELF BUT IN RELATION TO ALCOHOL IT IS EVEN MORE SERIOUS AND IF STEROIDS ARE ADDED TO THE MIX IT IS EVEN MORE SERIOUS.
What does all of this mean. Basically, no one knows for sure. There are sooo many factors affecting xenobiotic metabolism: age, diet, health, gender, polymorphisms, species variation (animal testing problems), substrate competitive inhibition, enzyme stabilization or induction, routes of administration, ect......
This makes it also impossible for any one to tell you what will or will not hurt you, specifically. But, what I can tell you is that with each additional "vice" you add into your system you are raising your risk factors and you will be shortening your "natural" life expectancy (what I mean by natural life is excluding accidents, car wrecks, smoking, ect....). So it is up to you what you decide what you do with your life and what you choose to put in your body. But, you need to keep in mind that your view may be different now then it will be when you are 40 or 50 or 60. Who knows maybe if you live to be 70 and you have grand children running around, that might be worth more to you than 5 or 10 years of being JACKED.
BOTTOM LINE: I would suggest that if you are going to do steroids that you keep the 17 aa's to a minimum, although testosterone without any esters or 17aa's, ect... must also be metabolized by the liver. The only, difference, and I repeat the only difference is the number of passes it takes through the liver. And, yes I know that aromatase converts test to estrogen yadda, yadda yadda, but this is also a "steroid" and at some point it will have to be broken down and removed from the body. And, if you must drink alcohol, then keep it also to a minimum. Don't binge and don't drink every night. And, most importantly, leave the FUCKING ACETAMINIPHEN alone. No matter what, don't take this drug (ibuprophen is also bad but not as bad) for any reason. Especially, if you have a hang over and your body has been clearing alcohol all night (plus the 300 mgs of dbol you have built up in your system). Also, if you like to pop a few hydrocodones, while you drink, then just go straight for the oxycotin, at least, then your body will not have to metabolize all of the acetaminophen the government requires to be put into these drugs. But that is another story.
Hope that clears things up.
Nautica
Xenobiotic Metabolism (basically drug metabolism, esp. breakdown) is carried out by enzymes, mainly in the liver, but also in the lung, kidneys, GI tract and skin. There are 3 phases in the in xenobiotic metabolism from the initial activation or deactivation to the final transport and clearance.
Phase 1 = functionalism or introducing a polar group to the molecule in order for the drug to be brought into cells and/or organelles.
Phase 2 = conjugation or coupling of a typically polar group to the molecule (the addition of the polar group will later be used in transport)
Phase 3 = Transport or altering localization of the molecule. i.e. Renal or biliary excretion.
Depending on the type of molecule (polar/nonpolar, ect...) the drug may or may not have to enter phase 1, it could start off in phase II, or III for that matter if it is a polar molecule and transportable. As we know, steroids are a class of large mostly non polar molecule, so they must be initiated in phase I.
Cytochrome P450 is the largest superfamily of Phase I enzymes, currently known. P450 has evolved along with humans, mainly for the purpose of endogenous steroid and arachidonic acid metabolism but as man began to partake in drugs, they assumed the role of exogenous drug metabolism and also exogenous steroids.
Fortunately, we also have other types of phase I enzymes such as Alcohol and aldehyde dehydrogenases. As alcohol is introduced into the body, it is brought into the cytosol, mainly in the parenchymal cells of the liver. At this time Alcohol dehydrogenase converts the alchohols to acetic aldehyde, which is perfectly fine. But, then the acetic aldehyde is shunted into the mitochondria, where it is converted to acetic acid, which is toxic. In this case, to the liver. At which time, it does its damage and moves on into Phase II metabolism.
So, at this time it does not appear that there would be a conflict. At least not on a cellular level. Right? Not neccessarily. For high levels of alcohol intake or alcoholics the Cytocrome P450 family also contributes to the phase I metabolism of alcohol, which, if you will recall, is what metabolizes steroids in phase I.
It does not appear that there is significant direct conflict in Phase II and III; however, as these drugs move through the metabolic phases they will cause necrosis on a gross scale, which will put an increased burden on the remaining tissues for the clearance of the drugs.
THIS IS A SIDE NOTE BUT IS OF EXTREME CLINICAL SIGNIFICANCE. PHASE I METABOLISM OF ACETAMINOPHEN WILL ACTIVATE 5% OF ACETAMINOPHEN, WHICH WILL ALSO HAVE TO BE CLEARED BYE CYTOCHROME P450. THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS STUDIES SHOWING THE EXTREME DANGERS OF ACETAMINOPHEN BY ITSELF BUT IN RELATION TO ALCOHOL IT IS EVEN MORE SERIOUS AND IF STEROIDS ARE ADDED TO THE MIX IT IS EVEN MORE SERIOUS.
What does all of this mean. Basically, no one knows for sure. There are sooo many factors affecting xenobiotic metabolism: age, diet, health, gender, polymorphisms, species variation (animal testing problems), substrate competitive inhibition, enzyme stabilization or induction, routes of administration, ect......
This makes it also impossible for any one to tell you what will or will not hurt you, specifically. But, what I can tell you is that with each additional "vice" you add into your system you are raising your risk factors and you will be shortening your "natural" life expectancy (what I mean by natural life is excluding accidents, car wrecks, smoking, ect....). So it is up to you what you decide what you do with your life and what you choose to put in your body. But, you need to keep in mind that your view may be different now then it will be when you are 40 or 50 or 60. Who knows maybe if you live to be 70 and you have grand children running around, that might be worth more to you than 5 or 10 years of being JACKED.
BOTTOM LINE: I would suggest that if you are going to do steroids that you keep the 17 aa's to a minimum, although testosterone without any esters or 17aa's, ect... must also be metabolized by the liver. The only, difference, and I repeat the only difference is the number of passes it takes through the liver. And, yes I know that aromatase converts test to estrogen yadda, yadda yadda, but this is also a "steroid" and at some point it will have to be broken down and removed from the body. And, if you must drink alcohol, then keep it also to a minimum. Don't binge and don't drink every night. And, most importantly, leave the FUCKING ACETAMINIPHEN alone. No matter what, don't take this drug (ibuprophen is also bad but not as bad) for any reason. Especially, if you have a hang over and your body has been clearing alcohol all night (plus the 300 mgs of dbol you have built up in your system). Also, if you like to pop a few hydrocodones, while you drink, then just go straight for the oxycotin, at least, then your body will not have to metabolize all of the acetaminophen the government requires to be put into these drugs. But that is another story.
Hope that clears things up.
Nautica
I
Iliketolift
Guest
haha nice.doanekw said:
nautica
New member
Oh, and in case you care. I only addressed the toxicity issue. Alcohol also impedes carbohydrate and protein metabolism and raise blood sugar levels. And most interestingly, actually increases aromatase activity. Which, as we all know, is what converts testosterone to that nasty little hormone, commonly known as estrogen.
Nautica
Nautica
nautica
New member
Oh man, I've been running. Bustin my butt for a couple of years selling my businesses, adding a couple of more undergrad degrees, getting my life in order, and now trying trying to get through medical school.
Today, we got out for Christmas break and it is honestly the first breather I have had since I don't know when. Plus, the mexico deal all over the news got my interest up and I wanted to make sure everyone here was still doing ok.
Good to c you too. How things?
Nautica
Today, we got out for Christmas break and it is honestly the first breather I have had since I don't know when. Plus, the mexico deal all over the news got my interest up and I wanted to make sure everyone here was still doing ok.
Good to c you too. How things?
Nautica
The Iotola
New member
Dont think one night will hurt you, unless your gonna turn into Frank the tank, and start pounding Bacardi 151 shots off a pair of implants, only to get carried out. My big night for drinking is New Years Eve...it would be damn hard to stand there with all my bro's bobbing my head holding a sparkling water. Other than that, I wouldnt drink while on AAS, no need to start throwing your gains down the toilet.
Re: Xenobiotic Metabolism
Nautica has some damn good advice. Many don't realize how toxic Acetaminophen (Tylenol/Paracetamol/Panadol) is to the liver. I had a bad flu several years ago and took the maximum (but recommended) dosage of Tylenol for about 7 days. It so happened that I also had a physical about two weeks after. Liver enzymes were through the friggin' roof! No drinking as I had been sick for weeks. Doc said, "This is normal for acetaminophen use"! Combine that with alcohol and steroids, and you are most certainly on the road to liver problems, maybe irreversible.
Don't drink is my advice. Wait until PCT.
Cheers-
Rex
nautica said:
Nautica has some damn good advice. Many don't realize how toxic Acetaminophen (Tylenol/Paracetamol/Panadol) is to the liver. I had a bad flu several years ago and took the maximum (but recommended) dosage of Tylenol for about 7 days. It so happened that I also had a physical about two weeks after. Liver enzymes were through the friggin' roof! No drinking as I had been sick for weeks. Doc said, "This is normal for acetaminophen use"! Combine that with alcohol and steroids, and you are most certainly on the road to liver problems, maybe irreversible.
Don't drink is my advice. Wait until PCT.
Cheers-
Rex
