AAS and the immune system your input welcome

[acneman]

i think i have an undiagnosed rheumatic disease
i had a blood test to check for these things and my "sed rate" was very high
"The erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR) can be used to monitor inflammatory or malignant disease. Although it is a screening test (cannot be used to diagnose a specific disorder), it is useful in detecting and monitoring tuberculosis, tissue necrosis (death), rheumatologic disorders, or an otherwise unsuspected disease in which symptoms are vague or physical findings are minimal."
other tests and symptoms point me toward this conclusion
some synptoms are
ocasional very dark circles under my eyes(at times so bad that people have asked me if i had been in a fight)
red rash on nose and cheeks(got a diagnosis on that for Rosacea so i dont think i have lupus)
body and joint pain
lack of energy
my doctors have been unable to pinpoint my problem
some have had no idea where to begin and some have stated that a rheumatic disease is likely(do to the sed rate and other tests) but have been unable to determine what it was.
cortisone has been recomended but ill be damned if im gonna use that the rest of my life. i hate it.
ive talked about the multiple injuries ive had several times but i believe they are all connected to this
like my body is attacking itself

i believe that AAS helps with this as the only time ive felt good since my early thirties is while on and for a little over 6 months after pct

i havent been "on" for years because i always feel i should be in shape before i start back but every time i try to get in shape a new injury occurs. and this is with light weight and attention to form
i hurt my shoulder doing pushups for christ sake
and the other shoulder doing dumbell curls???WTF?

i tried to quit taking motrin(i take a lot. so much blood thinning i would get nose bleeds) i stopped for 2 weeks and two nights ago i was laying in bed for 2 hrs and couldnt sleep from pain in shoulder and i didnt even know why it was hurting.
also my knuckles have swolen to the point i cant get my wedding ring off any more.

i still feel strong and i dont think this is an illusion. while rebuilding my house after katrina i had a carpenter helping me with an engineered beam to support the ceiling where we planned to remove a wall. the beam was 17ft long and very heavy(think 8 17 foot long 2 by 4s glued together)
i lifted one end and put it in place when i noticed the guy helpin me struggling
i ran over and grabbed it because he was off balance and looked it trouble, and put it in place. the guy looked at me and was kinda suprised. he said "your a lot stronger than you look."

so now you have the info
heres the question

is it my imagination or do AAS help with imunological illnesses like this
are they supressing my imune system like cortisone would and therefore providing relief or simply balancing a raging violent self distructive imune system. is this a good enough reason to use the anabolics that i have despite the lack of training ive had over the years due to pain and injury(since age 35 my bouts with non chemically assisted weight exercise have never lasted over 8 months without an injury stopping me)
not lookin for sympathy just some ideas
advice on this type of illness does not have to include AAS if thats the info you have
further medical advice is not available at this time since ive lost my insruance
no major injuries at this time just non specific pain
thanks in advance and sorry for the long post

 

[macrophage69alpha]

anabolic steroids modulate the immune system, they can be suppressive. Recent studies indicate that testosterone supports the immune system response, however testosterone use has been linked with increase plasma cortisol which suppresses immune response.

DHEA supplementation may be an option.


GH therapy is known to help with rheumatic conditions.

you really need it a full blood panel and to see a specialist.

 

[acneman]

anabolic steroids modulate the immune system, they can be suppressive. Recent studies indicate that testosterone supports the immune system response, however testosterone use has been linked with increase plasma cortisol which suppresses immune response.

DHEA supplementation may be an option.


GH therapy is known to help with rheumatic conditions.

you really need it a full blood panel and to see a specialist.

wow quick thanks
the sed rate test was with a rheumatologist he did a full panel and was unable to give a specific diagnosis. he however felt confident that something was wrong and told me inability to give a specific diagnosis on problems of this sort were comon. he stated that fibromyalgia and mixed connective tissue disease were a possibility as well as lupus and recomended prednisone maintanance which i refused.
since the two cycles i refer to giving me relief included deca, that might have been the factor.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

were you off cycle when you had the blood panel done? because hormonal status can skew results

 

[solidspine]

Injuries are simply part of living,


I simply “feel” better on than off, all other variables aside,

But as I lower my BF and eat correctly, stay off booze and lift regularly I feel much better on than off,

I think I am older than you, I am 56, and planning a kick ass cycle starting in November.


I think it is helpful to maintain certain key benchmarks, weight, measurements and not overreact to life’s emergencies.

Two years ago, my B/P skyrocketed to over 220/? And I was hallucinating, now have it in check with Diovan EOD.


My key bench mark, besides weight and bf is my waist, always needs to be under 30 inches or something is wrong, regardless of my weight.

I am 5’5” 190#

 

[acneman]

were you off cycle when you had the blood panel done? because hormonal status can skew results

ah very good question
the rheumatologist was before i had ever tried anabolics
other tests since then have been much less specific (and by a gp)
executive panels where i forget the test mentioned by the doc but he mentioned rheumatoid arthritis as a possibility. those tests were 8 months post last cycle and 4 years post last cycle respectively.
i believe it was cortisol levels but its been 2 years so my memory could be way off
but the doc said that injuries effect that test i do remember that

 

[acneman]

Injuries are simply part of living,


I simply “feel” better on than off, all other variables aside,

But as I lower my BF and eat correctly, stay off booze and lift regularly I feel much better on than off,

I think I am older than you, I am 56, and planning a kick ass cycle starting in November.


I think it is helpful to maintain certain key benchmarks, weight, measurements and not overreact to life’s emergencies.

Two years ago, my B/P skyrocketed to over 220/? And I was hallucinating, now have it in check with Diovan EOD.


My key bench mark, besides weight and bf is my waist, always needs to be under 30 inches or something is wrong, regardless of my weight.

I am 5’5” 190#

i deffinatly feel better on and for some time after
yes your older im 42 and drink one beer usually on new years eve and thats about it
im seriously considering jumpin in and experimenting
its been a long time

 

[solidspine]

Just do something simple


Test E
Primo or Deca
Fina for 5 weeks


Do 10-14 weeks and see if you don’t feel great.

 

[acneman]

Just do something simple


Test E
Primo or Deca
Fina for 5 weeks


Do 10-14 weeks and see if you don’t feel great.

yes what i have is test enathat some sus and deca. all are expired since i bought them several years ago but the guys on here said it shouldnt be a problem
i have already thrown out several bottles where the rubber stopper looked strange but the rest look pristene ive got enough for a long cycle and have my ancilaries and pct lined up and will purchace before i even consider starting

 

[ryan04]

Lowered estrogen levels are synonymous with a lowered immune system, strong anti e's like letro can have a negative impact on your immune system. I don't believe testosterone impacts it much, if at all.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

http://www.anthony-roberts.com/deca_winstrol_joints.html

My article on steroids and your joints touches on the ability of steroids to modulate the immune system. The above link is taken from my website www.anthony-roberts.com and here's an excerpt from the article:

Progesterone, like testosterone, both stimulates humoral immunity (the TH2) and suppresses cellular immunity (TH1 response). Ergo, progesterone has anti-inflammatory action. Deca is a progestin, meaning it stimulates the progesterone receptor. And that’s why it alleviates joint pains. Remember that old idea that deca promotes "water-retention" in the joints, and that’s why it helps your joints feel better? Bullshit. You just read the real reason deca helps joints. Deca actually works on two fronts as an androgen—which have well-documented effects on corticosteroids—and as a progestin to reduce inflammation.
Let’s move on....

Estrogen exerts what is known as a biphasic (two phase) effect. At low amounts, it is pro-inflammatory, because it stimulates the TH1 arm of the immune system (cellular immunity) and inflammation. In high(er) amounts, it is actually an anti-inflammatory (2). So when one takes very strong anti-estrogens (or aromatase inhibitors), one both loses water (because estrogen causes water retention) as well as experiences sore joints due to the pro-inflammatory effects generated from low estrogen levels.
Letrozole, which reduces blood plasma levels of estrogen due to aromatase inhibition, is the best example of this.

 

[acneman]

Lowered estrogen levels are synonymous with a lowered immune system, strong anti e's like letro can have a negative impact on your immune system. I don't believe testosterone impacts it much, if at all.

What we are showing is that testosterone seems to impede immunity," said Dr Eugene Kwon, a urologist and immunology researcher at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. "When testosterone is withdrawn, you get an increased host immune response indicated by the rising numbers of immune cells that are available to participate."
http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine.com/issue/2004/12_15/clinical05_23.html

Braude came across a new body of research -- about a dozen studies in all over the past five years -- that questions the whole idea of immunosuppression and suggests that, instead of suppressing the immune system, testosterone and other steroids play a key role in what's called immunoredistribution.http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/1999/E/199904705.html


studies show a imune response to testosterone but they argue as to how it effects it and in which way
i guess the real question is should i do a cycle to combat this problem
it seems to have helped in the past
but how do i know its not just makin it worse in the long run?

 

[acneman]

http://www.anthony-roberts.com/deca_winstrol_joints.html

My article on steroids and your joints touches on the ability of steroids to modulate the immune system. The above link is taken from my website www.anthony-roberts.com and here's an excerpt from the article:

ok i read your article twice and some paragraphs 3 times but i think i get the gist
progestin and progestin steroids as well as tes act as a imune system modulator to create more antiinflamitory imune cells(TH2 cells) and depress the TH1 cells which aggravate inflamation
low estrogen can aggravate inflamation but higher levels can act as an antiiflamitory agent as well

so considering i used no aromatase inhibitor in my cycles but used nolvadex in my last cycle because of higher tes dosage to block but not stop the estrogens developement
and since my last two cycles contained nandrolone.....
the resulting improvement in my condition was the result of imuno modulation to increasing anti inflamitory immune cells and depressing inflamatory imune cells. and the anti inflamitory effects of high circulating estrogen from aromatase. correct?

so in your opinion is this a viable alternative to long term corticosteroid therapy?
and if i do a cycle should i not take an AI or just keep the dosage of these compounds like aromasin low?

 

[BigCracker]

i think i have an undiagnosed rheumatic disease
i had a blood test to check for these things and my "sed rate" was very high
"The erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR) can be used to monitor inflammatory or malignant disease. Although it is a screening test (cannot be used to diagnose a specific disorder), it is useful in detecting and monitoring tuberculosis, tissue necrosis (death), rheumatologic disorders, or an otherwise unsuspected disease in which symptoms are vague or physical findings are minimal."
other tests and symptoms point me toward this conclusion
some synptoms are
ocasional very dark circles under my eyes(at times so bad that people have asked me if i had been in a fight)
red rash on nose and cheeks(got a diagnosis on that for Rosacea so i dont think i have lupus)
body and joint pain
lack of energy
my doctors have been unable to pinpoint my problem
some have had no idea where to begin and some have stated that a rheumatic disease is likely(do to the sed rate and other tests) but have been unable to determine what it was.
cortisone has been recomended but ill be damned if im gonna use that the rest of my life. i hate it.
ive talked about the multiple injuries ive had several times but i believe they are all connected to this
like my body is attacking itself

i believe that AAS helps with this as the only time ive felt good since my early thirties is while on and for a little over 6 months after pct

i havent been "on" for years because i always feel i should be in shape before i start back but every time i try to get in shape a new injury occurs. and this is with light weight and attention to form
i hurt my shoulder doing pushups for christ sake
and the other shoulder doing dumbell curls???WTF?

i tried to quit taking motrin(i take a lot. so much blood thinning i would get nose bleeds) i stopped for 2 weeks and two nights ago i was laying in bed for 2 hrs and couldnt sleep from pain in shoulder and i didnt even know why it was hurting.
also my knuckles have swolen to the point i cant get my wedding ring off any more.

i still feel strong and i dont think this is an illusion. while rebuilding my house after katrina i had a carpenter helping me with an engineered beam to support the ceiling where we planned to remove a wall. the beam was 17ft long and very heavy(think 8 17 foot long 2 by 4s glued together)
i lifted one end and put it in place when i noticed the guy helpin me struggling
i ran over and grabbed it because he was off balance and looked it trouble, and put it in place. the guy looked at me and was kinda suprised. he said "your a lot stronger than you look."

so now you have the info
heres the question

is it my imagination or do AAS help with imunological illnesses like this
are they supressing my imune system like cortisone would and therefore providing relief or simply balancing a raging violent self distructive imune system. is this a good enough reason to use the anabolics that i have despite the lack of training ive had over the years due to pain and injury(since age 35 my bouts with non chemically assisted weight exercise have never lasted over 8 months without an injury stopping me)
not lookin for sympathy just some ideas
advice on this type of illness does not have to include AAS if thats the info you have
further medical advice is not available at this time since ive lost my insruance
no major injuries at this time just non specific pain
thanks in advance and sorry for the long post

I'll tell you my bro's current situation and you can decide for yourself. My friend is about 43 yrs old, about 5 ft 11 220#'s about 7% without even dieting, and a long time, moderate user of AAS. Like most of us, this guy has his share of personal problems. After dating some alcoholic for a few yrs that loves to take her clothes off in public after a few drinks, flirt w/ other guys, etc he was at his wit's end. He dumped her-and to avoid dwelling on his loss he decided to do his 1st BB show. For 6 months he busted ass, juiced hard, and won the novice division. Soon after he got sick, but just continued to blow it off cuz he owns his own biz. After about 2 months of fighting off this nasty flu, he was to the point where he could hardly breathe. His brother brought him into the hospital with a 105 degree fever. He was in critical care with pneumonia for 2 months-which is unheard of cuz most people in critical care are only there under a week-either they recover good enough to be put in a regular room-or they die. Anyway, he was hooked up to oxygen 6 months, lost around 30 lbs, and was pretty much incapable of working out until recently(It's been a yr) and he's still on antibiotics. His lungs are heavily scarred and may never have the same lung capacity again. He's now faced with a $111K medical bill and may be forced to file bankruptcy. Anyway, my feelings are that my bro ignored his symptoms much too long at the same time he was coming off, compounded by the stress of a bb contest and getting over his ex. By doing this his body developed some nasty infection that was highly resistant to antibiotics. He said that he wasn't sure if he was gonna live for a good portion of the past year-the Drs said the same. Keep in mind that this guy is the picture of health for 43-non drinker/smoker and never sick day in his life. So with all of this being said, my feelings are that you need to be in touch with your body-especially when going on or coming of aas. If something doesn't seem right, you don't wanna just tough it it out-especially for 2 months. You can have the greatest bod in the world and more puss on hand than Hugh Hefner, but if you don't have your health, you are fucked.

 

[THE GOOD SUN]

how about a low dose of NPP eod?
easy to increse
easy to discontinue
less pronounced deca sides

i mean @ a low dose of like 25mg/eod ...100mg/week you shouln't have any sides or even 50mg/eod ...200mg/week ...no need for ancillaries either i wouldn't imagine

and just see if it brings you any improvement and go from there ...i mean health and an improved immune function is the goal here ...right?

 

[acneman]

I'll tell you my bro's current situation and you can decide for yourself. My friend is about 43 yrs old, about 5 ft 11 220#'s about 7% without even dieting, and a long time, moderate user of AAS. Like most of us, this guy has his share of personal problems. After dating some alcoholic for a few yrs that loves to take her clothes off in public after a few drinks, flirt w/ other guys, etc he was at his wit's end. He dumped her-and to avoid dwelling on his loss he decided to do his 1st BB show. For 6 months he busted ass, juiced hard, and won the novice division. Soon after he got sick, but just continued to blow it off cuz he owns his own biz. After about 2 months of fighting off this nasty flu, he was to the point where he could hardly breathe. His brother brought him into the hospital with a 105 degree fever. He was in critical care with pneumonia for 2 months-which is unheard of cuz most people in critical care are only there under a week-either they recover good enough to be put in a regular room-or they die. Anyway, he was hooked up to oxygen 6 months, lost around 30 lbs, and was pretty much incapable of working out until recently(It's been a yr) and he's still on antibiotics. His lungs are heavily scarred and may never have the same lung capacity again. He's now faced with a $111K medical bill and may be forced to file bankruptcy. Anyway, my feelings are that my bro ignored his symptoms much too long at the same time he was coming off, compounded by the stress of a bb contest and getting over his ex. By doing this his body developed some nasty infection that was highly resistant to antibiotics. He said that he wasn't sure if he was gonna live for a good portion of the past year-the Drs said the same. Keep in mind that this guy is the picture of health for 43-non drinker/smoker and never sick day in his life. So with all of this being said, my feelings are that you need to be in touch with your body-especially when going on or coming of aas. If something doesn't seem right, you don't wanna just tough it it out-especially for 2 months. You can have the greatest bod in the world and more puss on hand than Hugh Hefner, but if you don't have your health, you are fucked.

i think i understand your concern and thank you for taking the time to write out that post.
toughing it out is the alternative i took because the only consequence is basically pain. something ive considered an old friend at times.
while maintenece corticosteroids might put what ever "mystery illness that the docs cant pinpoint" in remission i have witnessed the effects of that treatment first hand.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/medmaster/a601102.html
Prednisone may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:

headache
dizziness
difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep
inappropriate happiness
extreme changes in mood
changes in personality
bulging eyes
acne
thin, fragile skin
red or purple blotches or lines under the skin
slowed healing of cuts and bruises
increased hair growth
changes in the way fat is spread around the body
extreme tiredness
weak muscles
irregular or absent menstrual periods
decreased sexual desire
heartburn
increased sweating

Some side effects can be serious. If you experience any of the following symptoms, call your doctor immediately:

vision problems
eye pain, redness, or tearing
sore throat, fever, chills, cough, or other signs of infection
seizures
depression
loss of contact with reality
confusion
muscle twitching or tightening
shaking of the hands that you cannot control
numbness, burning, or tingling in the face, arms, legs, feet, or hands
upset stomach
vomiting
lightheadedness
irregular heartbeat
sudden weight gain
shortness of breath, especially during the night
dry, hacking cough
swelling or pain in the stomach
swelling of the eyes, face, lips, tongue, throat, arms, hands, feet, ankles, or lower legs
difficulty breathing or swallowing
rash
hives
itching
what do you think of that^
i saw my mother change from a beautiful inteligent woman into a shell of her self with diminished mental capacity taking prednisone for years for mixed conective tissue disease
pain is pain and can be ignored or tolerated most of the time

also if the problems get to sever i can start the treatment at any time and go into remision
i simply refuse to go that route at this time since if you stop the treatment you are right back where you started.
bigcracker im sayin thanks again because i know that took time to write and dredged bad memories of your bros problems and i apreciated your concern

 

[acneman]

how about a low dose of NPP eod?
easy to increse
easy to discontinue
less pronounced deca sides

i mean @ a low dose of like 25mg/eod ...100mg/week you shouln't have any sides or even 50mg/eod ...200mg/week ...no need for ancillaries either i wouldn't imagine

and just see if it brings you any improvement and go from there ...i mean health and an improved immune function is the goal here ...right?

kind of like a hrt dose that included nandrolone
yes its a good idea and ive considered it before
my goal for all my cycles has been health not appearance
the first cycle i did was 200mg test enathate per week
and i didnt feel the improvement that i felt on the later cycles with higher tes dosages and addition of nandrolone
however im not willing to do a forever maintenance dose of steroids yet either although that appeals to me more than cortisone.
as the second and third cycles were based on a bell curve dosage pattern
(i do not reccomend that pattern now) basically starting low dose, progessing to higher dosses and tapering off, i didnt feel the improvement at the lower dosages of the beginning but did feel very good one the dosages were higher and for many months after pct. so my current inclanation is toward a yearly cycle of medium dosage
although i havent given up in the thought of a slightly longer lower dosage regimen like you have recommended, on a yearly basis

 

[THE GOOD SUN]

hey maybe even HGH??? ...in a mild rejuvenation type of dose and therapy schedule? maybe just to give your body a refresher course on how it's supposed to function?

i haven't ventured to GH ... ...yet ...i'm early 30's

 

[acneman]

hey maybe even HGH??? ...in a mild rejuvenation type of dose and therapy schedule? maybe just to give your body a refresher course on how it's supposed to function?

i haven't ventured to GH ... ...yet ...i'm early 30's

yeah macro was suggesting the hgh.
at the moment its not an option because of money
however if the state grant for katrina victims comes through i will discuss with my boss(wife) the possibility of trying that
mabey in conjunction with the AAS or starting post cycle with pct trying to extend the feeling of weelness. i would have to research the minimum effective dosage on that since most info ive seen is for HGH dosages for cosmetic effect.

 

[mikefear]

i havent gotten sick since i started HRT.. and my RA in my hips has decreased dramatically.

 

[acneman]

i havent gotten sick since i started HRT.. and my RA in my hips has decreased dramatically.

your hrt is tes only right? at what dosage?

ignore the karma message RA = rheumatoid arthritis
figured that one out
as part of the spin the wheel and see what hurts today symptoms i get
hip pain is one
docs said it was bursitis
happens less when i put less strain on them but still happens none the less

 

[acneman]

I have to go to work for the night but i wanted to say one more thing
ive learned a lot from the posts in this thread and thanks to all

and thanks to CO B-man
still dont know why i told him about this in the first place as ive never told anyone else on this board
but he convinced me to start this thread
thanks man

 

[mikefear]

200mg test cyp a week.. and yeah, you figured out RA.

 

[acneman]

ok from what ive read the cycle of tes/deca might very well do exactly what i want it to do
im gonna go with medium dosages as thats what seemed to help in the past but i have not given up the idea that a low dose cycle might do the same thing
plan will be a 12 week cycle
week 1-12 750mg tes enathate
week 1-10 300mg deca
week 3-6 10ius humulin r insulin post wrk/out not to exceed 4 days/week

using standard ancillaries and pct plan ive posted for others many times
if your intrested ill post but rest assured i have it covered

start date jan 1 07
lift plan is not to exceed 70% of one rep max for sets
going with a high rep/set as opposed to a low rep/set with higher weight
hoping to avoid injuries this way

diet will be a 50/50 bulk cut
bulk week 1-6
cut week 7-15 with eca 3 weeks on/3 weeks off/3 weeks on
every thing is subject to change if someone convinces me otherwise
i will listen to all resonable suggestions

 

[CO B-man]

This sucks bro. You are good peeps!

 

[blut wump]

I think that's a monster of a cycle if your intention is that the cycle be primarily medicinal. It should give you a good few months of improved life-quality, though.

You don't mention any tests besides blood. Did you have any x-rays or MRI scans on you shoulders? Do you have good reason to suspect that your aches and pains are muscular rather than joint-related? To some extent, aches and pains seem to be a part of getting older and it seems the only real options, besides exercise, for trying to turn back the clock are gear and GH.

I don't have much to offer on this thread other than that deca takes away my bad back temporarily. I've not yet tried eq or primo, which are reputed to help with regeneration of tissue besides muscles, but test and deca don't seem to help me at all with what I think is tendonitis.

Another issue that I occasionally do searches on, without much success, is the effect of test on your tendons, ligaments and joints. I keep finding contradicting reports as to whether it helps or whether it's actually detrimental to them other than the extra short-term stress imposed by being stronger.

I hope you report back with results. You can only add to the body of anecdotal evidence.

 

[acneman]

I think that's a monster of a cycle if your intention is that the cycle be primarily medicinal. It should give you a good few months of improved life-quality, though.

You don't mention any tests besides blood. Did you have any x-rays or MRI scans on you shoulders? Do you have good reason to suspect that your aches and pains are muscular rather than joint-related? To some extent, aches and pains seem to be a part of getting older and it seems the only real options, besides exercise, for trying to turn back the clock are gear and GH.

I don't have much to offer on this thread other than that deca takes away my bad back temporarily. I've not yet tried eq or primo, which are reputed to help with regeneration of tissue besides muscles, but test and deca don't seem to help me at all with what I think is tendonitis.

Another issue that I occasionally do searches on, without much success, is the effect of test on your tendons, ligaments and joints. I keep finding contradicting reports as to whether it helps or whether it's actually detrimental to them other than the extra short-term stress imposed by being stronger.

I hope you report back with results. You can only add to the body of anecdotal evidence.

thanks brotha
monster cycle? yes. its true. and of course i will benifit in ways beyond medicinal. third cycle which was in 99 peaked around 700mg tes 300 deca
and that was the best ive felt since mid 20's. so of course i based this one around that one. i dont know if a lower dosage cycle will work. i know that my second cycle was at a lower dosage peaking around 500mg tes 200mg deca and while did improve my issues did not have the same effect or length of effect as the third. however time (and other desires)sometimes cloud the memory. this i must admit. i will give the dosage of my cycle some more consideration.

no other tests on shoulders were recomended by doctors. at one time i was reffered to a specialist and with a physical exam of one shoulder was told i had a "lax tendon" in my shoulder... that time. usually caused by a nonspecific injury in the joint followed by tightness and inactivity of the joint and was given some temporary relief in that joint by physical therapy.

i suspect all my pain is joint and connective tissue related. the shoulder pain i mentioned that was just a few days ago seemed to be centered deep in the joint. i massaged and rubbed the shoulder several times in my quest for sleep and the pain seemed deep in the joint where i couldnt reach. no muscular pain i could determine. however this pain is gone now and left ankle and knee pain is prevelant now but hopefully this wont last and it will move on to other locals soon.
i know im getting older but i just dont think the pain levels i endure are anywhere close to what other people encounter as normal aches and pains. ive had some severe injuries like large cooking grease burns on back and legs which required physical therapy, and ruptured disk/pinched nerve. and my pain tolarence seems high compared to most people i know.
my objective is not reneration of connective tissue as i think these tissues are intact, just inflamed for periods of time. i remember one study i read where tes caused improper growth of ligiment and tendons in a spiral fashion as opposed to complete growth, which made them stronger but not as strong as the same muscular strength increase would incurr naturally. but have been unable to find that study again. i remember thinking at the time this might be related to many injuries incurred while on gear.
thanks for your replie and of course i will report my results.

 

[blut wump]

I spotted this article and thought it pertinent or, at least, interesting:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6090460.stm

 

[acneman]

I spotted this article and thought it pertinent or, at least, interesting:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6090460.stm

very intresting the study of eastern homeopatic medicine is cutting edge and has led to many very promising discoveries lately. it has been given a bad name recently due to some of the more politicaly incorrect treatments like endangered animal horn and things like that.

i have been searching on and off for more evidence and research on my supposition of androgen imunomodulation and treatment of rheumatic diseases for a long time

wheres lanky when i need him he sifts through research like this for fun

i found this article and it alludes to this but was a study for HCG treatment in hypogonadal men
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/1/66
It has long been known that a number of autoimmune and rheumatic diseases, including systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE), rheumatoid arthritis (RA), Sjögren’s syndrome (SS), autoimmune thyroiditis, and primary biliary cirrhosis, are more prevalent in women than in men, as are SLE and some other autoimmune diseases in KS (3, 4, 5).

Many abnormalities in the metabolism of estrogen and androgen in SLE (20) and reduced serum concentrations of androgens in RA, SS, and adjuvant-induced arthritis have been reported (19, 20, 21). Based on these observations, hormonal modulation of rheumatic diseases has been investigated. Androgen therapy has been used to effectively ameliorate SS, SLE, thyroiditis, and polyarthritis in animal models and to decrease various signs and symptoms of SLE systemic lupus erythematosus , SS, and RA rheumatoid arthritis in humans (2, 22, 23, 24). The effects of testosterone treatment are related not only to serum testosterone levels, but also to other factors, such as androgen metabolism, androgen receptor expression and sensitivity, androgen/estrogen ratio, the effect of the cytokines on sex steroid metabolism, the emotional status of the patient, etc.

i was thinking on the comment of the size of the cycle you were curious about and thought that the inclusion of insulin might be what you were referring to.
on that i am very comfortable and versed with its use and i have no thoughts as to its effect on the health issues i face. however i know that while health is the main consideration i will use this cycle for strength and athletic as well as appearance effects at the same time(why not) so that is why i included it and went a little over the last dosages i used in cycle.

i apologize for the length and language of my posts on this as i know they make it a difficult read for most