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AAP's Muscle Building Thread

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As you (many of you) may remember I used to do threads about AAPs Muscle Building Tips which turned out to be wildly popular. Until I had to quit doing them. (long story)

Next I started putting together training programs for various people, many which have declared my shoulder routine the best ever.

So this thread will be dedicated to posting about my training methods, philosophies, and helping each and everyone of you out with any training obstacles you may encounter.

To cut back on all the PMs and emails I get from multiple people asking pretty much the same thing, I will just post here on this thread so everyone may share and be involved.
 
Here is the trap advice I have given out in the past.
-----

Ok, just from the training side of things (not taking in consideration of diet, rest, supplementation, etc..)

You should be training traps after your back training. Because your traps extend 2/3 of the way down your back. Training your back pre-exhausts them.

Two of the best exercises that I have found to directly trigger trap growth are :

Olympic Style Snatches - no I don't men renegade female zombie twats. But you want to work the Snatch part of Olympic lifting. Start with holding the barbell at arms length like you are going to do barbell shrugs, hands directly down (shoulder width). Not any narrower, not any further. The bar is going to travel from mid thigh upwards, in an arc and come to rest on your upper chest like you are getting ready to do a military press. But instead you are going to lower it back to midthigh. I hesitate to say do it "explosively" because that often leads people to eventually fall into a habit of bad form, but the truth is that you want to do it explosively, but not with a lot of jerking around or swinging.
10 reps here and then after the 10th rep, immediately do 10 shrugs with a two second pause at the top. Just straight up and down movement. None of this shoulder rolling thing.
Four sets of these.

Next exercise - Traps Raises on the Calf Machine. You get under the machine like you normally do for calf raises, but instead simply use your traps to push the pads upwards as far as they will go. Try to get the bottom of the pads up near the middle of your ear.
Four sets with about 10-12 reps would be enough.

About every third trap workout you can change up and do 3 sets of 3 different exercises. Just mix it up and get some new angles in there. Doing dumbell shrugs on a high incline bench is a new angle. Doing behind the back shrugs is a new angle. Doing one arm shrugs with your body angled is good. This is like you see people holding onto a stationary object with one hand and leaning away from the object in the opposite direction to do side laterals with a great range of movement. Instead, get a heavier dumbell, assume the same stance, and simply shrug it upwards. Different angle, different feel.

After a while, you will find exactly which exercise benefits you the most. Or better yet, you will find the "groove" that allows you to hit the exact pathway you need with the muscle no matter what exercise you do. Doesn't matter if you are doing standing barbell shrugs or laying rowing machine shrugs
 
My calves are my genetic weak point. What in your opinion is the best way to add size to calves. Is there any way to bring out the upper part of the calf muscle?
 
roy2 said:
My calves are my genetic weak point. What in your opinion is the best way to add size to calves. Is there any way to bring out the upper part of the calf muscle?
Click to expand...


Personally I believe that the key to calve growth is through aggressive stretching. However, I do NOT believe you should try to stretch the calves during the actual exercise.

What I mean is that you often hear of the statement that on calf training you should go as low as you can to "get a really good stretch". Well I don't believe it. I believe doing that is generating a risk for hyperextending your tendons there when you are training heavy. Instead, I believe that you should only lower your heels to the point they are parallel to the floor. After all this the natural level they rest at when you are standing up anyways. Keep the rep movement in that range and you will be able to increase your poundages. I don't see the point in going over 15 reps on calf training. Between 8-15 are ideal. Some people say high reps work, but there is a small percentage of people that actually benefit from that.

Also, you should try to do at least one exercise during your calf work with your legs perfectly straight. Most people say they keep their legs straight during standing calf raises and toe raises on the leg press. But look again. Are they perfectly straight and the knees locked out the entire time? When you bend the knee, even slightly, you shift the stress on the calf somewhat. One thing you can use is the hack squat machine to do your calf raises. Because the bottom of the platform (at least most platforms on most common hack machines) will have your heels slighltly behind and under your glutes once you assume the calf raise position. You have to naturally move your feet backwards a bit to get them to hang off the bottom of the platform. Do these with your knees locked and legs perfectly straight. Do your normal normal standing calf raises or leg press machine, then do the seated calf raises, again 10-15 reps and heels never really dipping low.

After the workout, this is when stretching is important. Stretching is a whole workout in itself. The best stretch I have found is to assume the stance on the standing calf machine and then instead of raising yourself, just shift your balance to one leg and lower all the way down slowly, when you reach the bottom, you shift balance to the other leg and lower it while placing the previous leg/foot back up so you can immediately transfer the weight again. The movement resembles you stepping down backwards. That is strange, but the best way I can describe it. You do about 10 reps (20 step downs all together) rest, do 2-3 more sets. You will be stretched beyond belief then.

You can also do the old school routine that involved buying the calf shoes they used to advertise in magazines. But you can make your own by superglueing a small block of wood under the front of an old pair of shoes and wearing them around the house. Every step you take will force you to exaggerate the raising and lowering movement the calfs make. when you are standing still, you make sure you rest your heels on the floor so you are in a stretched position.

I used to see a lot of track guys doing this back in college.
 
this is a great idea AAP, I get a lot of pms and emails too, this is easier and puts the info out there for everyone
 
Before I give you my delt routine, let me give you my philosphy behind it.

I don't buy into that shit about how your shoulders get enough work from training other bodyparts (front delts with chest, rear with back, etc..). I simply don't believe that indirect work in exercises for other muscle groups will ever be more than just a warm up for shoulder training. And if it is more than indirect work, chances are that you are doing the exercise completely wrong in the first place.

I also base this routine on good old volume training because #1 it stimulates the muscles more adequately than low set high intensity training and #2 the constant pushing of blood into the muscle helps in fascia stretching with is very important for growth.

This shoulder routine looks long. Roughly 24-27 sets. Which sounds like a 2 hour workout. The layout is basically :

7-8 sets side laterals reps 10-12
7-8 sets front laterals reps 10-12
7-8 sets rear laterals reps 10-12
3x10 miliatary press reps 8-10

But it only takes about 45 minutes tops. You are not doing forced reps or negatives or drop sets or any of that shit like that which does nothing but compromise your form and risk injury.

Look at it this way. Your side delts are what?? as big as your two fingers? You dissect that muscle and you will see the actual side delt is not very big at all. So why you want to throw heavy weight at such a small muscle? You can't possibly stimulate it enough without incorporating and recruiting additional muscles. So your side laterals, effectively become a compound movement for the whole shoulder girdle. You target that tiny muscle with high reps, volume sets and you push that blood in there to stretch that muscle from the inside as much as you can. When you start training balls to the wall with the utmost intensity, throwing that weight up, getting those extra forced reps, dropping the weight and continuing on... you are just grinding the hell out of your socket and putting the entire SITS foundation muscles at risk of injury. Why take that chance when you can accomplish the same results with just an extra set, which is safer. Not to say this is candy ass training, you are still going to train hard. But when you reach the failure limit you are going to acknowledge it and accept it rather than stubbornly try to overcome it.

Every third workout you can change up and do something different. Something based primarily around pressing movements. Two of my favorites are behind the neck presses done with free weights as the smith machine locks you into a path range that may not be natural for you based on your body structure, arm length, etc.. (when I lower the weight, I only bring the bar down to about mid ear level, any lower you are begging for trouble, so don't do it) and the second pressing movements will either be dumbell presses or reverse front presses on the smith machine (for safety reasons). This exercise, you grip the bar under your chin with a grip that resembles the completion of a barbell curl. Hands shoulder width (thumbs facing out, palms facing you, but your hands directly in front of your delts, you shouldn't have your thumbs out past your shoulder width.) Then just smoothly push the weight up. Sort of resembles a reverse underhand grip pullup when you are lowering yourself. But you are sitting and pushing. Hard to explain but you can sit at your desk and try it to get the right idea.
 
This thread is a great idea. In case anyone here hasn't seen what AAP looks like, he certainly knows his stuff. About 3 years ago he gave me some quad tips that really worked great. I've always been able to get my legs up in size, but I needed that deep seperation (the look where you think you would be able to hide a dime in your flexed thigh). His tips did the trick. Never had a problem again.

I also had lagging upper pecs and he told me to give good ol' neck presses a try. A Vince Gironda lost exercise that most would laugh off. Not I, I still use it from time to time. It worked and then some. Just don't go too heavy! I remember thinking 135lbs would be baby weight, it was like doing reps with 405 on regular bp! After a few months my upper pecs were on par with my lower and then some.

I hope this thread takes off and keeps growing. Maybe for humor, throw in some stories of Niko or some of the crazy gym characters your seem to attract (I recall the hillbilly with the huge gut and tightly cinched lifting belt with a pack of cheerleaders/goons he had hanging around him, thinking he was king shit, that you invisioned driving a 70's model rusted transam with a big firebird sticker on the hood, lol).
 
c3bodybuilding said:
This thread is a great idea. In case anyone here hasn't seen what AAP looks like, he certainly knows his stuff. About 3 years ago he gave me some quad tips that really worked great. I've always been able to get my legs up in size, but I needed that deep seperation (the look where you think you would be able to hide a dime in your flexed thigh). His tips did the trick. Never had a problem again.

I also had lagging upper pecs and he told me to give good ol' neck presses a try. A Vince Gironda lost exercise that most would laugh off. Not I, I still use it from time to time. It worked and then some. Just don't go too heavy! I remember thinking 135lbs would be baby weight, it was like doing reps with 405 on regular bp! After a few months my upper pecs were on par with my lower and then some.

I hope this thread takes off and keeps growing. Maybe for humor, throw in some stories of Niko or some of the crazy gym characters your seem to attract (I recall the hillbilly with the huge gut and tightly cinched lifting belt with a pack of cheerleaders/goons he had hanging around him, thinking he was king shit, that you invisioned driving a 70's model rusted transam with a big firebird sticker on the hood, lol).
Click to expand...

Hey, post up what your initial problems were with your legs, what you were doing for it, and the hints I gave you. Cause sometimes people get sick of me running my mouth.

I swear, I can still hear the song "ohhhh yeahhhhh Jack and Diane..." going through my head when I think about that dude. All I can picture is those two tone colored teeth from the tobacco use. :worried:
 
AAP said:
Hey, post up what your initial problems were with your legs, what you were doing for it, and the hints I gave you. Cause sometimes people get sick of me running my mouth.

I swear, I can still hear the song "ohhhh yeahhhhh Jack and Diane..." going through my head when I think about that dude. All I can picture is those two tone colored teeth from the tobacco use. :worried:
Click to expand...
Is this a boys only club or can the girls play too? :qt:

I'd really be interested in seeing the quad hints as well. I thought separation was something that just happens according to how your muscle is shaped.
 
For that matter do you have seperation techniques for other muscles say inner and outer biceps for instance?
 
ximor said:
For that matter do you have seperation techniques for other muscles say inner and outer biceps for instance?
Click to expand...

If by seperation you mean the "split" that you see some people have like Darrem Charles, Ronnie, Al Beckles, that sort of splits their peaks in two... well that is genetically determine. No amount of drugs or training is going to change that. A surgeon with a scalple might, but nothing else. Diet of course is key to first determine if you have any seperation at all.

If by training each bicep head seperately is what you meant, you can do that to ensure overall growth (but still will not lead to a seperation and split, just a bit more size.)

My idea of bicep training is to based on the principle of pumping blood into the area. This doesn't mean use light weight and do 100s of reps. But hold your arm up and look at the bicep. Now make a fist with your other hand and hold it next to your bicep. Which is bigger? If you were to peel the skin back and actually look directly at the bicep muscle it will be rather small. (no pun) When you take into consideration the small nature of bicep size, you will see that it makes no sense to attempt to hammer it with heavy weights and low reps. Which nearly always turn into an exercise for your tendons to help see-saw the weight back and forth more than your muscle is actually lifting it.

Now to directly contradict myself, I am not saying that low reps are useless. But people make them useless. They turn a low rep principle into a "lets see how much weight I can use for only 4-5 reps" kind of thing. If you were to stand with your back flat against the wall and do curls with proper form and full range of motion, you would be surprised at how "strong" you really are. Or rather are not.

Ok, that concludes my view on overall bicep training. Now to specifically answer your question about the seperate heads and stimulation of each... almost every exercise stimulates the inner bicep (facing the body when your arms are down) to a various degree. To directly stimulate it more specifically the best thing to do is Wide Grip Barbell Curls. Which is just as it sounds. You take a wide grip on the barbell, wide enough so that at the top of the curl, your pinkies will be out further than your shoulders. Then using a LIGHT weight, you simply curl the weight smoothly all the way up and then all the way down. You really do not want to jerk or sway in this exercise. Trust me on that one.
Or you can simulate the movement with seated dumbell curls. Do them seated to eliminate cheating and keeping your elbows pressed into your sides like you do when (or like you SHOULD do) when you do tricep pressdowns, you curl the d'bells up and supinate them while keeping your pinkies out further than your shoulders.

Outer biceps - the part facing away from the body - the very best exercise I have found has been narrow grip EZ bar curls supersetted with hammer curls. Use an EZ bar - which I hate but it is necessary for keeping your wrists safe and injury free in this position - simply place your hand in the same groove that you would use for tricep presses - but of course your palms facing the other direction in a curl position. Elbows in close to the body, curl it up and down from crotch to upper chest. 10 reps and then immediately do a set of hammer curls. I do mine with arms by side going up and down, none of this across the body curl shit. Why complicate things? Just up and down. This will target the brach and really compound the stimulation it already received indirectly from the narrow grip curls. 10 reps here too.

Keep in mind for reps that quality of reps is always better than quantity of weight used.

An alternative exercise to target the outer section of the bicep is narrow grip underhand pullups. With a grip that has your pinkies touching each other, simply raise and lower yourself on bicep strength alone. Use a lot of caution with this one and dont try forced reps or negatives because of the ackward position and flexion of the bicep you don't want unnecessary injury risks.
 
Wow, awesome post. +K You answered my question perfectly. At the moment I am having trouble adding size to my arms and since your bicep info is so valuable... Im currently on my fifth week of a cycle but my basic question is this: When conventional methods have only gotten my tricep development so far which new routine would you recommend to shock them into growth? I hope that was easy to understand :P
 
Tricep training is tricky and mine (along with my hamstrings) were my two weakest bodyparts.

First, don't train triceps like I do. Because everyone usually does it wrong. I do anywhere from 18-30 sets just for triceps. Sounds like a lot doesn't it. You know that guy you see training triceps in the gym? Drenched in sweat, straining to push past failure, who would rather die than not get that final rep??????.... you know "that guy"? Well that ain't me. I train high volume, moderate intensity. For instance, I keep my reps 10-15. If I am doing a set and I am on the 11th rep and I *KNOW* the 12th rep will be my finally one where I have to strain and inch the weight down little by little, well I just stop. Sounds like pussying out, but I have found that once you do that balls to the wall type training.. it is usually your tendons that are leverage the weight (with body sway) the last few reps. Why cheat yourself. So I just do an set or two, push the blood into that muscle over and over again. It will be forced to expand or burst eventually.

So basically you have to expirement with your sets and intensity to see what you respond to. Since I really can't predict that for you, I will instead give you my three favorite tricep exercises. Not very conventional, not very popular, but really very effective.

Pull over presses - load up an EZ curl bar with LESS weight than you normally use for close grip benches. Start with about 50% of the weight you normally use. Arms extended in the starting position, you lower the weight until your hands/bar come in contact with your spot between lower pec and upper ab. Then keeping your ARMS bent at the 90 degree angle they are in, you push up about one inch and then rotate/lower the bar behind your head down past the bench like a pullover. The only difference is that your arms stay bent 90 degrees and at the bottom stretch position your upper arms are parallel with the floor. Then you smoothly pull the weight back over head, touch that spot between lower pec / upper ab and push it straight back up in close grip press style.
Lower
Touch
Rotate/Stretch behind head/bench
pull back over
Touch
press up

NOTHING will wear your triceps out faster than this.


The next exercise mimics both dumbells tricep extensions and close grip presses. Sitting upright on a bench under a smith machine. With the bar directly overhead you grip it in a close grip position with your thumbs no more than 2 inchs apart. You unrack the weight and lower it smoothly all the way down to the top of your head (you are still looking forward, not at the weight). Your elbows will natuarlly be bent out to the sides. Then you press back up. Top Of The Head Presses is about the only thing I can call them. Use a LIGHT weight and reps again in the 10-15 range. You are using all tricep strength to move the weight. Don't go heavy or fast because you are lowering the bar to the top of your skull and you don't want to bang it.

The last is favorite superset of mine : Close grip bench presses 10 reps supersetted with wide grip pressdowns 10 reps.

I do 10 perfect reps on the close grip and then gripping a lat pulldown bar, I do pressdowns with an overhand wide grip. Making sure at the bottom of the movement my grip is so wide that at all times, raising or lowering the weight, my thumbs are always further out to the sides than my shoulders. Keep your upper arms and elbows pushed into your sides during this to isolate the tricep muscle and force it to do all the work. You will feel a strong cramping at the bottom when you complete each rep.

Other than this, the other exercises I do are common ones. Pushdown with various grips, machines, etc..

Just make sure you train triceps as the first muscle on that day so you will have the most strength to hit them like they need to be. You can pair them up with something like hamstrings or traps/abs/calves to make a complete training day.

Let me know if this works.
 
*bump*
 
I love your trap work suggestions - Snatches are a superior movement to most for total strength.

The delt routine seems fluffy IMO. Why not just do overhead work till you can't anymore. I don't do ANY lateral raises, front raises, etc. Just Oly work fromt he floor and overhead, and my medial delt heads are about the sive of grapefruits.

I think heavy pressing makes big shoulders. I think fluff work is a waste of time, and I disagree that the delts need all that direct work. he idea that the delts get enough work on a pressing day is scientific, not theroy.

It's different for everyone I guess. My shoulders grow if I look a them wrong.

Great thread bro. I love the shrugs ont he calf machine. Don't do them personally, but to me trap development is all about load.
 
Mind sharing your chest work out? Do anything in particular for lower pecs (e.g. decline press)?
 
Hmmm . . . well, if I can't get your chest workout, can you just bring your chest over here and let me bury my face in it? :p
 
Thanks AAP

I lift heavy on the compounds . But often get strange looks by novice gym rats
when I do isolation work.Becuase your right when your trying to hit the biceps or a deltoid they are very small muscles when you look at the anatomically.You can not lift much weight when done correctly.

I see guys swinging 60lb dumbells doing " curls " and they prob are not even working any of their biceps at all when it comes down to it. It looks more like a upper cut then anything else.

Thanks for the re enforcement that it's fine to train properly and not have to worry about lifting more weight then the guy next to you.
 
al420 said:
I love your trap work suggestions - Snatches are a superior movement to most for total strength.

The delt routine seems fluffy IMO. Why not just do overhead work till you can't anymore. I don't do ANY lateral raises, front raises, etc. Just Oly work fromt he floor and overhead, and my medial delt heads are about the sive of grapefruits.

I think heavy pressing makes big shoulders. I think fluff work is a waste of time, and I disagree that the delts need all that direct work. he idea that the delts get enough work on a pressing day is scientific, not theroy.

It's different for everyone I guess. My shoulders grow if I look a them wrong.

Great thread bro. I love the shrugs ont he calf machine. Don't do them personally, but to me trap development is all about load.
Click to expand...

Your side delts are not the size of grape fruit if you peel the skin back you will see that your actually looking at the front deltoids and the whole sideof the shoulder and getting confused that its the lateral head.When the lateral head even in the biggest bodybuilder is maybe 3 inches wide at the most

Your side delts get hardly any work at all by pressing the attachments on the humerus and up to the clavical do not allow them to be targeted well during a press but only from rasies.

My shoulders blow up doing military presses . But I was lacking seperation and striations the lateral raises have really made a big difference in the lateral development.
I garantee they will in yours as well.
Just give um a shot for a few weeks
 
jerseyrugger76 said:
Mind sharing your chest work out? Do anything in particular for lower pecs (e.g. decline press)?
Click to expand...


Actually, *my* chest workout might not be suited for you as our goals are a bit different. I never really do anything for lower pecs, rather concentrating on the upper and inner parts where you can never have too much thickness. The exercises that I normally choose from are : (in no particular order, just what I feel like doing and what equipment is free)

One arm pec dec machine - doing these with one arm will allow you to cross the arm further across your body and get a much stronger contraction. I often like to do this first in the workout. That way it pumps blood into the area and helps "pressurize" the muscle before I start with compound movements like presses.

Incline presses - regular incline bench, but also I like to place a bench inside the power rack and tilt it 10 degrees up and do presses that way as well. Same with dumbells.

Incline HS Machine - I admit I do not use the standard one (weird movement for me) but there is ONE in particular http://us.commercial.lifefitness.com/content.cfm/iso-lateralhorizontalbenchpress
Like that one, but slightly a bit more inclined

that I have only found in two places, neither which is here in South Florida. That machine is the fucking boss. I would join a gym simply for no other reason than it had that machine. (if there was one here that did.)

Flat bench presses to the throat - these are another favorite of mine which actually yields consistent results in everyone that is faithful to them. You can't (and don't want to) use a lot of weight. But I scoot down the bench some so the bar doesn't hit the supports on the movement plane. I hold my head back and flat on the bench. None of this "neck crunch" to look at my chest or bar while doing the movement. I lower the bar all the way down to touch my adams apple and then push it slowly back up to about 2 inches short of lockout. I don't lock out. And I don't go heavy. I am usually using 385 for 7-10 reps on the flat bench regular presses (when the rare occassion presents itself that I do them) but on this movement, I never go over 225. Forget the weight and instead slow the movement down so you can feel every bit of stress in the muscle and focus on your upper chest stretching and pushing.

Flat bench medium grip presses - Not a regular bench press grip, not a close grip. But in between. Much like the exact same space between my thumbs as there would be if I were pressing dumbells and had just completed a rep. This is a terrific movement for adding inner chest thickness.

I do various flyes, cable cross overs, etc.. as well. Something to throw in keep the boredom away.





Now regarding your request for lower chest development. Continue with the decline presses, keep your reps about 10, 4-5 sets at the start of the workout BUT make sure you lower the bar as far down as you can. Try to get that bar all the way down to your upper chest / neck. You will use less weight, but you will not lockout and thus the stress multiplies each rep.
Follow these up with 3 sets of a superset of dips - keep the elbows AWAY from the body, upper arms should be parallel to floor at bottom of the movement with your elbows sticking out to the sides. Much like an old west gunfighter in "position" to make a quick draw during some High Noon showdown. Hit 10-15 reps, then hit cable crossovers. But do not do them the regular way where you take the handles and step forward. Instead grip the handles and don't move. Stand in the middle of the machine and bring your arms down to your sides. It will sort of resemble a bird flying. Up and down. This will focus on the outer pec area and help give the illusion of lower pec thickness.

Also try other machines in the gym until you find the one that helps you "groove" to the muscle pathway and gives the greatest benefits. But don't discount the importance of continuing upper chest work. Throw in at least 3 sets of something for that area while you are prioritizing the lower area.

(sorry about my description at times, I know some of them make no sense. You have to actually just stand up and try them to hopefully get the idea I am trying to convey.)
 
AAP said:
Actually, *my* chest workout might not be suited for you as our goals are a bit different. I never really do anything for lower pecs, rather concentrating on the upper and inner parts where you can never have too much thickness. The exercises that I normally choose from are : (in no particular order, just what I feel like doing and what equipment is free)

One arm pec dec machine - doing these with one arm will allow you to cross the arm further across your body and get a much stronger contraction. I often like to do this first in the workout. That way it pumps blood into the area and helps "pressurize" the muscle before I start with compound movements like presses.

Incline presses - regular incline bench, but also I like to place a bench inside the power rack and tilt it 10 degrees up and do presses that way as well. Same with dumbells.

Incline HS Machine - I admit I do not use the standard one (weird movement for me) but there is ONE in particular http://us.commercial.lifefitness.com/content.cfm/iso-lateralhorizontalbenchpress
Like that one, but slightly a bit more inclined

that I have only found in two places, neither which is here in South Florida. That machine is the fucking boss. I would join a gym simply for no other reason than it had that machine. (if there was one here that did.)

Flat bench presses to the throat - these are another favorite of mine which actually yields consistent results in everyone that is faithful to them. You can't (and don't want to) use a lot of weight. But I scoot down the bench some so the bar doesn't hit the supports on the movement plane. I hold my head back and flat on the bench. None of this "neck crunch" to look at my chest or bar while doing the movement. I lower the bar all the way down to touch my adams apple and then push it slowly back up to about 2 inches short of lockout. I don't lock out. And I don't go heavy. I am usually using 385 for 7-10 reps on the flat bench regular presses (when the rare occassion presents itself that I do them) but on this movement, I never go over 225. Forget the weight and instead slow the movement down so you can feel every bit of stress in the muscle and focus on your upper chest stretching and pushing.

Flat bench medium grip presses - Not a regular bench press grip, not a close grip. But in between. Much like the exact same space between my thumbs as there would be if I were pressing dumbells and had just completed a rep. This is a terrific movement for adding inner chest thickness.

I do various flyes, cable cross overs, etc.. as well. Something to throw in keep the boredom away.





Now regarding your request for lower chest development. Continue with the decline presses, keep your reps about 10, 4-5 sets at the start of the workout BUT make sure you lower the bar as far down as you can. Try to get that bar all the way down to your upper chest / neck. You will use less weight, but you will not lockout and thus the stress multiplies each rep.
Follow these up with 3 sets of a superset of dips - keep the elbows AWAY from the body, upper arms should be parallel to floor at bottom of the movement with your elbows sticking out to the sides. Much like an old west gunfighter in "position" to make a quick draw during some High Noon showdown. Hit 10-15 reps, then hit cable crossovers. But do not do them the regular way where you take the handles and step forward. Instead grip the handles and don't move. Stand in the middle of the machine and bring your arms down to your sides. It will sort of resemble a bird flying. Up and down. This will focus on the outer pec area and help give the illusion of lower pec thickness.

Also try other machines in the gym until you find the one that helps you "groove" to the muscle pathway and gives the greatest benefits. But don't discount the importance of continuing upper chest work. Throw in at least 3 sets of something for that area while you are prioritizing the lower area.

(sorry about my description at times, I know some of them make no sense. You have to actually just stand up and try them to hopefully get the idea I am trying to convey.)
Click to expand...
Awesome response! Many thanks for the detailed answer!
 
Re: Flat Bench Presses To the Throat

How do these differ from a JM Press which is used to target triceps? Of course the guy in the pic sets up differently but I bench relatively flat and I'm still getting JM Press.
 
The description of the JM Press :

"The elbows are tucked and shoulder rotation is minimized. The grip that is used is a close to medium grip "

When you bench you use a wider grip, and keep the elbows flared out so the stress is on the pecs, not triceps.

Personally that JM Press is just too weird for me to even incorporate.
 
Thanks.

JM press, of course, was developed for powerlifting and can seem counter-intuitive at first.
Being from the parallel universe I was having a hard time seeing the difference. Even now I'm having to really concentrate on not letting my tris take over. :teleport:

Great thread. Hard to believe there's not more bodybuilders out there with questions.
 
fortunatesun said:
Great thread. Hard to believe there's not more bodybuilders out there with questions.
Click to expand...


That's because everyone thinks they know it all and refuse to accept the fact that maybe, just maybe they have been their own biggest obstacle in the path of progress. It's easier to blame genetics, underdosed gear, etc.. than yourself.

Of course to an extent the magazines contribute to this as well. I was lucky enough to go to some of the better gyms in Atlanta and have advice from quite a few people who knew what the hell they were talking about.

Most people are not happy with their progress but yet, refuse to make any changes to their routines because they are now habits and it doesn't "feel right" doing something new.
 
AAP said:
That's because everyone thinks they know it all and refuse to accept the fact that maybe, just maybe they have been their own biggest obstacle in the path of progress. It's easier to blame genetics, underdosed gear, etc.. than yourself.

Of course to an extent the magazines contribute to this as well. I was lucky enough to go to some of the better gyms in Atlanta and have advice from quite a few people who knew what the hell they were talking about.

Most people are not happy with their progress but yet, refuse to make any changes to their routines because they are now habits and it doesn't "feel right" doing something new.
Click to expand...


Agreed.
 
Hey AAP, what you got for abs. Been trying to work on the abs alot more now. Abs is not what it used to be since I graduated high school and dont do as much running. I know fat is a problem too but i figured its alot easier to work on the abs then to cut the fat.
 
Great info bro, tried the tricep routine and loved it. Going to stick with it for a few more weeks and see what kind of results I get. I've actually found a lot of the info in this thread to be extremely helpfull. I've been working out for over a decade and many of these alternative techniques are new to me. Fantastic stuff, keep it coming!!!!
 
MoFoBerto said:
Hey AAP, what you got for abs. Been trying to work on the abs alot more now. Abs is not what it used to be since I graduated high school and dont do as much running. I know fat is a problem too but i figured its alot easier to work on the abs then to cut the fat.
Click to expand...


Well you have to get rid of the fat to see the abs first. But when you get rid of the fat, you need something actually there to see.

I longer train abs at all. I did 8 years of ab work during my swimming years through high school and college. Our coaches put us through 45 mins of ab drills 6 days a week. Trust me, even today I could probably walk a quarter up and down the grooves as they are still so developed.

I always believe in high sets / reps. Mainly because training this way builds them up and then will eventually make your waist small and tight because you will technically be overtraining them. When I say high reps, I mean like 30. Which people snort at and proclaim they do 75-100+. Which I snort at because I know when they do this they are using half ass shitty movements and momentum.

If you do need some thickness in the region to get some depth there, cable crunches (I prefer to tell people to do them standing rather than kneeling to save your knees), the exercise that needsize likes to do, the 5 second pause on the decline bench, and the Hammerstrength ab machine with weights.

Otherwise, crunches, leg crunches (reverse crunches for lower abs), the bicycle crunch and using the swiss ball to "roll" your lower abs while laying on your back and lifting the ball by gripping it under your calves and hams are the best for really adding detail to that area.

I never see the point in doing any oblique work. But get the cardio going and BF in check and you will be more motivated each day when you see results in the mirror to continue working them even harder.
 
AAP said:
Well you have to get rid of the fat to see the abs first. But when you get rid of the fat, you need something actually there to see.

I longer train abs at all. I did 8 years of ab work during my swimming years through high school and college. Our coaches put us through 45 mins of ab drills 6 days a week. Trust me, even today I could probably walk a quarter up and down the grooves as they are still so developed.

I always believe in high sets / reps. Mainly because training this way builds them up and then will eventually make your waist small and tight because you will technically be overtraining them. When I say high reps, I mean like 30. Which people snort at and proclaim they do 75-100+. Which I snort at because I know when they do this they are using half ass shitty movements and momentum.

If you do need some thickness in the region to get some depth there, cable crunches (I prefer to tell people to do them standing rather than kneeling to save your knees), the exercise that needsize likes to do, the 5 second pause on the decline bench, and the Hammerstrength ab machine with weights.

Otherwise, crunches, leg crunches (reverse crunches for lower abs), the bicycle crunch and using the swiss ball to "roll" your lower abs while laying on your back and lifting the ball by gripping it under your calves and hams are the best for really adding detail to that area.

I never see the point in doing any oblique work. But get the cardio going and BF in check and you will be more motivated each day when you see results in the mirror to continue working them even harder.
Click to expand...

Aye, Captain. I only train abs the last few weeks of contest prep.


Nice thread! I'm glad I came over today to find this.

{{bookmarked}}


Oh, yeah - nice avi. :D
 
the-short-one said:
Aye, Captain. I only train abs the last few weeks of contest prep.
Click to expand...

That is really the best time to train them. I see people training them year around and have some really great development and yet... the bigger and more detailed the abs get, the weaker it makes their chest appear. So unless you already have a phenominal chest, there is no point to overdevelop the abs.
 
AAP, great thread, thanks for all your input

how often should one train abs with high reps as you mentioned before to tighten the area via 'overtraining'? i currently do abs 2-3x a week and they are decently developed but i need to strip some bodyfat off before i can really see what ive got
 
chazk said:
Your side delts are not the size of grape fruit if you peel the skin back you will see that your actually looking at the front deltoids and the whole sideof the shoulder and getting confused that its the lateral head.When the lateral head even in the biggest bodybuilder is maybe 3 inches wide at the most

Your side delts get hardly any work at all by pressing the attachments on the humerus and up to the clavical do not allow them to be targeted well during a press but only from rasies.

My shoulders blow up doing military presses . But I was lacking seperation and striations the lateral raises have really made a big difference in the lateral development.
I garantee they will in yours as well.
Just give um a shot for a few weeks
Click to expand...

yeah I always thought that Over Head presses did jack shit for the side and rear heads. BB do mostly front but DB do a bit more for the side head.
 
Back? Funny you should ask. I just gave two friends a back routine about 3 months ago and the difference in their backs are like night and day. If you really want improvements, and don't mind a bit of inconvenience, this will definately work for you.

The workout involves two different back workouts. Done on the same day. Prior to this, my friends couldn't make progress because they couldn't stimulate the back enough in a work out (without tapping into the CNS system which is a no-no as you will burned out very very quick). They simply could not generate the intensity and maintain it for enough sets. Volume training is key. Never more so with a complicated part like the back which is actually several different muscles thrown together.

The workout format is like :

Friday - no training
Saturday - 2 back workouts
Sunday - no training

You have a pre and post rest day in order to ensure maximum recovery levels.

The back workout is actually broken up into 2 different kinds. Thickness (AM) and width (PM)

The thickness (AM) workout is first. Wake up and make sure you get a good amount of solid protein and carbs in you. I would highly suggest that you take one of the AAP MuscleMix cocktails immediately upon waking. Then shower, dress, etc.. and sit down about an hour later and have solid food. Wait a couple of hours and off to the gym.

All exercises here are done in the 10 rep range. Use good form. Why cheat yourself? Lighter weight with a full contraction will always produce more results than a heavy weight with body swing and lurch.
Here you are going to focus on thickness exercises. T-Bar rows - I advocate these over barbell for the simply reason that no one does BB rows correctly. Ever see Arnold or Haney do them? That is how you are suppose to do them. Body at 90 degree angle, upper torso parallel with the floor. Almost resembling the bottom of a stiff leg deadlift. But no.. people don't do that. Instead they do it the Dorian style which is a hybrid row/shrug movement. Seated Cable rows (my favorite), one arm dumbell rows, under hand pulldowns, machine rows, rear pec deck scalpula squeezes (stand facing pec dec that has the pads on the front, not the handles. Place your elbows on the pads and with a light weight PUSH the pads back like you are trying to touch your elbows behind your back. Almost like doing a rear most muscular. If that makes sense.) Do about 5 exercises, 3 sets each. Finish up with 4 sets of shrugs. choose one from HS shrugs, seated DB shrugs, behind back shrugs (excellent), front shrugs or shrugs on the calf machine.

Have protein/carb shake. Go home. Eat solid food. Nap for 1-2 hours. Wake up. Another solid meal. Another musclebuilding cocktail. later in the evening back to the gym for the second (width) workout.

Now the second one is going to sound simply. 8 sets of front pulldowns. That is not hard is it. You are going to use light weight, 10 reps. You simply MUST sit excellent form. No swing or body sway. You sit straight up, ramrod straight, and you don't pull the weight down.. you grip the bar and push your elbows to your sides. You won't really be able to touch your sides with your elbows but that is the attempt. Instead of thinking of your lats as a pulling muscle, think of them as a pushing muscle - which technically all muscles are pushing muscles as they "push" themselves into contraction. Even the biceps. You might bend the arm, but the muscle itself pushes itselfs into a contraction.
So you are going to push your elbows down. Using a semi wide grip. At the bottom, which will be about chin level as you won't touch your chest with the weight unless you are using very light weight or very cheating form. When you reach the bottom of each rep this is when the fun starts. You are going to take about 8 seconds on the negative part. So basically about 2 seconds down and 8 seconds up. 10 reps. After each set you are going to the chinning bar and hang for 30 seconds. You won't make it. Maybe you will the first couple of sets (if you are lucky) but it takes a long time to build up the point of hanging this way for multiple sets. You are going to use this stretch out the lats. Nothing else. Strap yourself to the bar - don't be macho with this grip strength shit - then simply hang down. Your arms should be relaxed and almost limp all the stress is being diverted down to the lats and everytime you breath out you feel the pulllllllllll of them when they stretch.

Rest about 3-4 minutes in between sets to get your maximum wind and focus back.

After 8 sets, do another 3-4 sets of another trap exercise. A different one than what you did in the morning. I suggest a lot of trap work because that muscle goes 2/3 the way down your back and makes up a huge portion of thickness that is in the area.

If you try this, it is only one workout per week. In 10 workouts you will definately see an improvement. I know this for a fact because I have seen the results in other people that I suggested this to with my own eyes.
 
AAP said:
That's because everyone thinks they know it all and refuse to accept the fact that maybe, just maybe they have been their own biggest obstacle in the path of progress. It's easier to blame genetics, underdosed gear, etc.. than yourself.

Of course to an extent the magazines contribute to this as well. I was lucky enough to go to some of the better gyms in Atlanta and have advice from quite a few people who knew what the hell they were talking about.

Most people are not happy with their progress but yet, refuse to make any changes to their routines because they are now habits and it doesn't "feel right" doing something new.
Click to expand...

r these exercises limited to those who use gear?

some seem contraditory to other things i've been told on this site.

i.e, no need for high reps. isolation exercises.
 
nodiggitydave said:
r these exercises limited to those who use gear?

some seem contraditory to other things i've been told on this site.

i.e, no need for high reps. isolation exercises.
Click to expand...


Your body will respond to the same stimilus whether you use gear or not. If you can't get results from flat bench presses but can from incline, it is not going to change just because you hit the juice.

As Lee Haney said "stimulate, don't annihilate" You could stimulate muscle fiber with superheavy low reps in the Dorain/Mentzer style... but look at the way they ruined their tendons and bodies in that.
 
AAP said:
Your body will respond to the same stimilus whether you use gear or not. If you can't get results from flat bench presses but can from incline, it is not going to change just because you hit the juice.

As Lee Haney said "stimulate, don't annihilate" You could stimulate muscle fiber with superheavy low reps in the Dorain/Mentzer style... but look at the way they ruined their tendons and bodies in that.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I tried your shoulder workout and it's awesome. I'd say my shoulders are probably the most developed part of my body so I think this workouts great.

I think I'm going to carry on building my strength up with compounds for the other lifts though, I might try your 'to neck bench press'
 
hairlossguru said:
Any calf workout tips?
Click to expand...


If you didn't like my previous one, then try this.

Go spend $20 on a pair of ankle supporters. Like this : http://www.andreascahling.com/images/VS_ankle.jpg

Now when you think that people wrap their knees when squatting and some wrap their elbows and wrists when benching... should you not add some support to your ankles when using heavy poundages? Trust me if you are doing calf raises with 500+ lbs or such, you need support. The ankle is a very small joint which are you heaving around during calf training. Not to mention the added support on your arch can lead to plantaris (sp?) if you are not careful.

Slip the supports on and when you train calfs do NOT go all the way down. Yes a stretch is good. Yes a stretch is important. But you will stretch AFTER the set. Not during. Save your efforts for the explosive contractions. Go down about 75 of the way. Actually I never go down below paralled when doing heavy calf raises. I go up as high as I can, all the way up, but when lowering, I stop at the same plane I would if I were standing on a flat floor.

But afterwards, I stretch a little bit after each set and LOT at the end of the calf workout.
 
Doing old fashioned hacks with a barbell instead of that stupid, knee killing machine is what helped me. And no, I don't believe a certain exercise will change genetics of any of that other shit, but it did help hit areas of the thigh that weren't being hit with plain ol' squats. And I know this is a 5x5, powerlifting haven now, but when you are a bber and get to the advanced 240-280lb range, then each little bit counts. I'm very pleased to see a thread like this still going. AAP has a lot to teach others and I think the training forum has shifted to a place where there is no bodybuilding info. Everyone seems to think things like hst, 5x5 are all new or something. All were created and used since the 40s and 50s, sorry folks. Not angry, just hate to see people critize and shut down threads and ideas like these that do and will help people stuck in a rut.
 
I believe HST and 5x5 (and DC and volume training, etc..) do work. Unfortunately I also believe 150% that they do not work for the entire body. You may have certain muscle groups that respond to that kind of stimilus and training and then have other bodyparts that simply don't.

I don't believe a training system exists that works your body as a whole with the same level of benefits. It truly comes down to a case of the sum of the parts being greater than the whole.

When trying other training systems it is crucial that you first stick to it long enough to effectively judge how well it works. This means 5-6 months at least. And also keep a training log that details every little thing you can think of. Then when try another method, you do the same... and again.. until you can look back and compare notes and find out exactly what you need to do for each.

In my case, I do around 8-12 sets total for chest. Hamstrings get about 12-15. And triceps get around 18-25 sets. However, the way I train each is different. Chest I use heavy weight to break the muscle down and fatigue it. With Hamstrings I use a slightly higher rep range. With triceps, I simply pump blood in there over and over again. The blood volume training principle.

The reason most people don't see the results they want is because they have become ingrained with their training and training concepts. The 5x5, the DC, the Secret Soviet System (remember that one? LOL) all have the same thing in common. Heavy weights and low reps. That is why some people gravitate from one of these to the other and vice versa. That is what "worked" for them once and they subconsciously stick with it.

Which isn't to say I haven't made the same mistake. I have. When I first started training right out of college I went to Lee Haneys Animal Kingdom. I had never touched a weight before. Instead we just did training drills, abs 6 days a week, and various pullups that our swim coach gave us. From doing this 8 years (4 years high, 4 years college) when I first walked in the gym, I already had low bodyfat, deep abs, shoulders and an above average back. Naturally I started training heavy. Reps in the 4-6 range. I made a lot of gains to start with the first year. And who doesn't in their first year of training? We all do. Then it slowed down and by the end of the second year it had stopped all together. So what did I do? Trained harder. More weight. More sets. Still low reps. It worked for me to start with, it should work for me now right? Well most people don't realize that any kind of training will work for them when they first start out. And I was trapped by my own notion of what "worked".

I had a conversation at the water fountain one day with Lee Haney that changed my mind and got me to trying new things. He came over and said "I have never seen a powerlifter with that little amount of bodyfat on them." I told him I wasn't a powerlifter. And he replied with a straight face "so why you training like one month after month after month?"

Come to find out, he didn't train with low reps anymore and didn't believe in them. He said anything less than 8 reps, you are fatiguing your tendons and joints first for having to compensate for such a heavy load.

It took me years to find out what works for me. But at least I did. That is more than some people do. Instead they train the same, and still look the same year in and year out.
 
c3bodybuilding said:
Doing old fashioned hacks with a barbell instead of that stupid, knee killing machine is what helped me. And no, I don't believe a certain exercise will change genetics of any of that other shit, but it did help hit areas of the thigh that weren't being hit with plain ol' squats.
Click to expand...


I have never seen another person do these other than me and my training partner. I have not found an exercise yet that annihilates the VMO quite like these. These are giving me that nice tear drop that you don't see on the average leg press and leg curl crowd.

AAP this thread is full of unbelievably good info. K to who originally bumped this up. You should continue make threads like this.
 
SouthernLord said:
I have never seen another person do these other than me and my training partner. I have not found an exercise yet that annihilates the VMO quite like these. These are giving me that nice tear drop that you don't see on the average leg press and leg curl crowd.

AAP this thread is full of unbelievably good info. K to who originally bumped this up. You should continue make threads like this.
Click to expand...

I use to do these too. Not sure if I had proper form but i destroyed the back of my calves.
 
Hey bro. My biceps lacks peak. I know a lot of that has to do with genetics. What kind of routine would you advice. Concentration curls? cables? Preachers while holding weight on top? Alternating dumbell curls with a twist at the top?
 
the_alcatraz said:
Hey bro. My biceps lacks peak. I know a lot of that has to do with genetics. What kind of routine would you advice. Concentration curls? cables? Preachers while holding weight on top? Alternating dumbell curls with a twist at the top?
Click to expand...


You can only improve what you have. If you don't have it, you can't build it. Some people like Kevin Levrone just didn't have it, but they still built impressive biceps.

Basically I would start with heavy (reps around 8 but perfect form) concentration curls for the first exercise. You are fresh and stronger, might as well utilize that to your advantage. Then stick with a mass building movement with perfect form for the second exercise. Barbell curls with your back against the wall to eliminate cheating. Then move into bodydrag curls supersetted with preacher curls (done properly). Finish up with another round of concentration curls but with the reps in the 12-15 range.

After this always throw in 4-5 sets of hammer curls, hammer rope curls, etc.. to hit the brachilolololoias muscle that everyone says they do, but they never really train it.
 
the_alcatraz said:
Hey bro. My biceps lacks peak. I know a lot of that has to do with genetics. What kind of routine would you advice. Concentration curls? cables? Preachers while holding weight on top? Alternating dumbell curls with a twist at the top?
Click to expand...


I found heavy ass hammer curls gave my bicep their peak
 
AAP said:
Before I give you my delt routine, let me give you my philosphy behind it.

I don't buy into that shit about how your shoulders get enough work from training other bodyparts (front delts with chest, rear with back, etc..). I simply don't believe that indirect work in exercises for other muscle groups will ever be more than just a warm up for shoulder training. And if it is more than indirect work, chances are that you are doing the exercise completely wrong in the first place.

I also base this routine on good old volume training because #1 it stimulates the muscles more adequately than low set high intensity training and #2 the constant pushing of blood into the muscle helps in fascia stretching with is very important for growth.

This shoulder routine looks long. Roughly 24-27 sets. Which sounds like a 2 hour workout. The layout is basically :

7-8 sets side laterals reps 10-12
7-8 sets front laterals reps 10-12
7-8 sets rear laterals reps 10-12
3x10 miliatary press reps 8-10

But it only takes about 45 minutes tops. You are not doing forced reps or negatives or drop sets or any of that shit like that which does nothing but compromise your form and risk injury.

Look at it this way. Your side delts are what?? as big as your two fingers? You dissect that muscle and you will see the actual side delt is not very big at all. So why you want to throw heavy weight at such a small muscle? You can't possibly stimulate it enough without incorporating and recruiting additional muscles. So your side laterals, effectively become a compound movement for the whole shoulder girdle. You target that tiny muscle with high reps, volume sets and you push that blood in there to stretch that muscle from the inside as much as you can. When you start training balls to the wall with the utmost intensity, throwing that weight up, getting those extra forced reps, dropping the weight and continuing on... you are just grinding the hell out of your socket and putting the entire SITS foundation muscles at risk of injury. Why take that chance when you can accomplish the same results with just an extra set, which is safer. Not to say this is candy ass training, you are still going to train hard. But when you reach the failure limit you are going to acknowledge it and accept it rather than stubbornly try to overcome it.

Every third workout you can change up and do something different. Something based primarily around pressing movements. Two of my favorites are behind the neck presses done with free weights as the smith machine locks you into a path range that may not be natural for you based on your body structure, arm length, etc.. (when I lower the weight, I only bring the bar down to about mid ear level, any lower you are begging for trouble, so don't do it) and the second pressing movements will either be dumbell presses or reverse front presses on the smith machine (for safety reasons). This exercise, you grip the bar under your chin with a grip that resembles the completion of a barbell curl. Hands shoulder width (thumbs facing out, palms facing you, but your hands directly in front of your delts, you shouldn't have your thumbs out past your shoulder width.) Then just smoothly push the weight up. Sort of resembles a reverse underhand grip pullup when you are lowering yourself. But you are sitting and pushing. Hard to explain but you can sit at your desk and try it to get the right idea.
Click to expand...
I just noticed this thread. My question is on the above military press layout. Did you mean to say 3 sets of 8-10?
 
What do you think of Arnold style concentation curls?
(Apologies for the hammy Pumping Iron dialog)



I switched to doing them this way because it just felt more natural and it took the tendancy to cheat with your body out of the movement.

The open stance allowed for a full range of motion really stretching out the muscle. They felt great to finish out a workout with.
 
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