Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply US-PHARMACIES UGL OZ
Raptor Labs UGFREAK OxygenPharm
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplyUS-PHARMACIES UGL OZUGFREAKRaptor LabsOxygenPharm

A squat question...flapwrlftr, others?

TheProject

TheProject

New member
I've posted about my squat multiple times, and how I have weak hamstrings and hips, so consequently, I squat with my back.

We did our ME squat workout tonight, and we did low box squats. I did fine on form until about 175lbs, then my form started to suffer, and it became a combo squat GM, as it always does when it gets heavy. I went as high as 225, and got it, but it wasn't a true squat.

So, I was talking with spatts, and was bouncing the idea off her about doing more work at lower weights with proper form in an effort to practice form and hopefully strengthen my weak points. Her suggestion was to work up to a weight that I can do with proper form, then go no higher, and do more reps at that weight with proper form.

flapwrlftr, I know you helped spatts with her squat, and I'm curious to know what input you would have.

Also, anyone else that would like to chime in, I can use all the help I can get. :)
 
It really is a day and night switch. He goes up to about 200 in decent form, then BAM...it's a true goodmorning. Hannibal and I stand back in case his spine shoots out his ass. :)

I'm at a loss. I don't want him to waste his time repping it out with light weights, but at the same time, what good does it do to subject himself to the injury of "low box goodmornings?"
 
Yes...if he's not doing that, it's not because hannibal and I aren't screaming it at him! LOL

As for arching, you're talking to a guy that was pysically incapable of arching about 1 1/2 years ago. Had been sedentary for about 27 years, and has a minor spinal curvature, topped with (formerly) shit posture....I told him to arch his back when I first started training him, and he honestly didn't know what I was talking about. He had to learn to flex his erectors that way. Since then, he's almost OVER COMPENSATED for this weekness by doing GM's like a mad man. Now, his lower back is WAY stronger than everything else. Hence the problem.

He is very inflexible through the hips/hams, and I think that might be a contributing factor. His knees cave at about 185 pounds.
 
you could try switching him to sumo style deadlifts for a while to hit the hamstrings and hips, also add in a lot of low weight overhead squats...these will teach the proper balance and spinal position through the entire squat, you'll be amazed how much these help when teaching squat form
 
Oh, great ideas! I hadn't thought of the sumo thing. He pulls conventional, with his back of course....that's a GREAT idea! Thank you!
 
Well...it may be crazy...but you could try to teach him to squat high bar style...and STILL sit BACK. I believe that JV Askem has some pics of himself doing nice high bar squats...

My thougths...find a way for him to squat with the use of his legs more and NOT his back...make it to where his legs HAVE to strengthen instead of his back. Cheese is the same way!!!! Wait...so is Goggins....hmmmm... (back squatters)

Just throwing out an idea or two...but it might not be a BAD idea to throw in a set or 5 each week of high bar squats...

B True
 
Hi Project,

what has helped me tremedously is a hint by Dave Tate - Your head goes up first. I know You have read it already and that Spatts and Hannibal are probably yelling this at You too, just a thought. I had similar problems to Yours, then I literally started to visualize a barrier above my head that I want to hit and break with my head when i squat up. I don´t really look up, just drive my head up first.
It has really helped me and my training partners.

Good luck.

Pete
 
Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone.

To answer some of the questions:

I do try to get my head to go first. But the whole demonstrate/duplicate thing really doesn't work on me. I have to watch video of myself over and over again in order to see what I'm doing wrong, and even then, I just have to feel it.

B True...I'll admit, I don't know what a high bar squat is, but I'm sure spatts does. :)

I think we had discussed me doing sumo pulls before for a while, but decided against it because I do pull conventional most of the time, and we thought it would be more beneficial for me to find other, additional exercises to bring up my hips and hammies. That said...I'm all for anything that helps.

Also curious to try low weight overhead squats.
 
Project, I seem to remember in your meet video tha your stance was barely wider than shoulder-width. Have you tried moving your stance out a couple of inches? I say this b/c I used to have the same bro, but since I moved it out I am way more upright. Of course this advice is pointless if I was wrong about your stance.
 
argent said:
Project, I seem to remember in your meet video tha your stance was barely wider than shoulder-width. Have you tried moving your stance out a couple of inches? I say this b/c I used to have the same bro, but since I moved it out I am way more upright. Of course this advice is pointless if I was wrong about your stance.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have. I've experimented with my stance a LOT. The problem is, as I go wider, because of my lack of flexibility, my knees tend to come in at the bottom, which is more dangerous.

As I get more flexible, my stance needs to get wider, for sure.
 
ok heres what i think:

1. you need to strech alot, but i dont think thats enough to cut it, you need to work on flexiblity under the bar too. heres some moves i think could help:

A) seated good morning- put your feet out and up as far as you can away from you, but keep your foot flat. go all the way down to the bench or past the bench once you get more flexible. dont do these real heavy just put some weight on the bar and do reps. this should work on your ham and glute felxiblity.

B) stiff leg deadlift on block- take a bar with light weight and go down till the bar touches your toes. dont use alot of weight

C) ultra wide sumos on block- this will help you with pushing out your knees and bringing up your hips. you can work up on these when yo get use to it. this will also help your flexability


2. you need alot of pull through and rev hypers. sled dragging can be of help with your hamms and glutes too, they need brought up big time, but this you know already.


3. doing good mornings is all good and well for your arch but it take alot of upper back strength too. get the red bar out and practice arching the bar out of the rack with some weight on it. do some neck work. and when your squatting grip that bar just like on bench or deadlift, pull your shoulder blades together, and keep your head up.


im sure you and spatts and hannibal probably know most of this but maybe something in there is of use.
 
TheProject said:


Yeah, I have. I've experimented with my stance a LOT. The problem is, as I go wider, because of my lack of flexibility, my knees tend to come in at the bottom, which is more dangerous.

As I get more flexible, my stance needs to get wider, for sure.
Click to expand...

How flared out are your toes bro?
 
Liftbig, those are great suggestions, and all things I have not tried. We do pull throughs on occasion, and I'm trying to hit them more often because I really feel them in my hamstrings. I also hit the glute ham 2X a week.

I've used the reverse hyper, and to some extent my issue may be technique, but I just don't feel anything from it. As I understand it, the reverse hyper will work my back, which isn't the issue so much. Am I missing something?

Also, what's a red bar?

We've definitely talked about the need to build my upper back, and it's on the list of things to work on. :)

Of the things you mentioned, how often would you suggest doing them, and should I do them in addition to the accessory work I already to, or instead of something else?




argent, I've squatted with a variety of stances and foot positions to see if I can find one that's most comfortable and stable. Right now, my toes are angled out slightly. I've tried straight ahead, and varying degrees further out, but this is what I've settled on for the moment.
 
Re-read you first sentence. If you have weak hams and hips, fix that problem. Get those up to par and your form will imrove dramatically. I would still contunue to do your ME work heavy no matter how ugly it gets.

The change I would recommend would be in your DE work. I would have you do 15-20 sets of DE squats and fix your technique there. I used to do the same thing you do and my ass would shoot up. Well, Gritter got pissed at me and made me change my form on DE day. I used 315 and a green band and did 15-20 sets. The weight was very light for me, so I could focus on my technique. The ME work kept my strength up. It made huge difference in my technique. As a side note I went to a meet and squatted a PR using just the 315 and a green band.
 
flapwrlftr said:
Re-read you first sentence. If you have weak hams and hips, fix that problem. Get those up to par and your form will imrove dramatically. I would still contunue to do your ME work heavy no matter how ugly it gets.

The change I would recommend would be in your DE work. I would have you do 15-20 sets of DE squats and fix your technique there. I used to do the same thing you do and my ass would shoot up. Well, Gritter got pissed at me and made me change my form on DE day. I used 315 and a green band and did 15-20 sets. The weight was very light for me, so I could focus on my technique. The ME work kept my strength up. It made huge difference in my technique. As a side note I went to a meet and squatted a PR using just the 315 and a green band.
Click to expand...

Thanks...I know I definitely still need to be working on hams and hips, as well as flexibility.

I like the DE idea. I assume you mean 15-20 sets of 2, like a normal DE day?

This past Sunday was our DE squat day. My meet record is 325, and I was using 155+pinks. My form was good until my 4th set, then I started to get fatigued, and my form went to crap. Should I go light enough that I can avoid fatigue throughout all 15-20 sets?
 
Use 135 and the pink band. It's when you get fatigued that the sets really start to count. That is when you need to focus on your technique. Spatts and Hannibal should be all over you butt about your technique. Yes, 15-20 sets of 2 reps. You will need to cut down on the rest of your workout as this will be a kick in the balls.
 
Spatts & Project-

Ive missed to talkng to you good people. Just wondering if you have one of those front SQ harnesses. What little exp. Ive had with that creature makes you really work on form, or else the F'r will pull you the hell over.

If you find something that seems to work well, lemme know..as I have basically the same probs as Project.


Flapwrlftr-Are you Bob Y that used to post on John Troxels board a few years back. If so I remember reading that you were moving to Fla, but lost track of which board you have been on.
 
Its cool to see you around again Bob.

Just wondering if John Troxel still has a site, and If Gritter is posting anywhere. I have an older friend who benches, but has chronic elbow probs(I remember reading jeff had this too) and wanted to see if I can stick him for some advice.

Later..
 
TheProject said:
Can you elaborate? How is it modified?
Click to expand...

The "Red Bar" is a Saftey Squat Bar with a bigger camber to it. The Center of Gravity is farther forward on it compared to a regular SS Bar. Makes you work even harder to get the weight back.

Dave used to sell them on Elitefts...they aren't listed any more, but you probably could get one.
 
Okay, did DE squats tonight. I went 135 + pinks for 15 sets. I normally squat at 14.25", so we started out at 15.75" for the first 5 sets, then 15", then 14.25" I didn't concentrate so much on speed, but really concentrated on keeping my form. I did pretty well with it, up until my last two or three sets, and it suffered some. On my last set, I focused on speed, and form wasn't *too* bad. Did some sumo speed deads for a second move, and those really hit my hips, glutes, and hamstrings, but it also takes a hell of a lot of concentration to not do those with my back. I also need to work on the negative, and not put the bar down with my back.

Followed all that up with pull throughs and leaning abs, and my entire lower body is just fried. :D

I'll let spatts or Hannibal chime in with their .02 about how it went, but I'm pleased.
 
Well, he actually SQUATTED, so I was happy. I never once had to dodge the potentially projectile spine straining to not shoot out his A$$. Just as I expected, he had to work harder to move his head first as his hips became more involved...the last 5 sets that were lowest.

I think it was a GREAT idea to taper the three levels of height for him at this stage because he CAN squat high. So the gradual descent almost tricked his body, so to speak, into doing what he had been doing in previous sets...only a tad lower. It worked like a charm.

You should've seen his first sumo pull....looked like Bambi learning how to walk. HELLO, HIPS!
 
spatts said:
I think it was a GREAT idea to taper the three levels of height for him at this stage because he CAN squat high. So the gradual decent almost tricked his body, so to speak, into doing what he had been doing in previous sets...only a tad lower. It worked like a charm.
Click to expand...

Just glad we found something...now I gotta fix mine.
 
LOL sounds like me, I'm in-flexible as hell, when I first squatted wide with 135 I got buried on the box even tho I had done over 7 in a meet. It was like I would go down and all of a sudden I had no ability to stand and would just fall back. Lots of revhypers/ghr/wide sumos and dragging has helped.
 
You must be very open minded and willing to learn to sacrafice 700+ in one stance on someone's word that you'll do more wide.
 
Well I still don't squat super wide-just wider, still working on it. Of course your expected to take all advice and put it to use and I wanted to be stronger. So that helped too lol .
 
DBCooper said:
LOL sounds like me, I'm in-flexible as hell, when I first squatted wide with 135 I got buried on the box even tho I had done over 7 in a meet. It was like I would go down and all of a sudden I had no ability to stand and would just fall back. Lots of revhypers/ghr/wide sumos and dragging has helped.
Click to expand...

WOW....

Liftbig mentioned the reverse hyper as well. Where did you feel it when you were using it? Did it help with your flexibility as well?
 
I really feel that in my lower back and glutes if I really squeeze at the top/sounds weird but it works. I think dragging and wide sumos will help a lttle more maybe some sets of 5-10 reps(light) with zercher squats to force your form to go wide.
 
I've been meaning to post this, and keep forgetting.

I did the same progression this past Sunday, and it felt better to me. My back didn't fatigue as quickly from arching, and I felt like I was able to hold my form longer.

On a side-note, I did wear my suit this week, and had to fight against it to push my knees out, particularly my right knee. Made it a little tougher, but I think the pratice with the suit is worthwhile.

We did Zercher front squats as a second move, and I really felt those in my glutes, hams, and hips. I hit 225 for a triple, but it became more of a squat/gm combo.

Spatts did notice something interesting, and we may need to do a video of this just so everyone can see it...it seems that when I squat, it's like I squat to the left. I'm sure she can explain it better than I can, but I raise and lower myself at an angle. I suspect this is another one of those things that goes back to the slight spinal curvature, but I don't know. Anyone else ever seen someone squat at an angle?
 
I've seen someone twist as they squat. He would start squarred to the rack and he would twist on the eccentric so much the plates would sometimes hit the supports.
 
Okay, week three:

Three of the Springfield guys came up to train with us, so we had a bigger crowd for DE squat, which is always good.

With the additional help changing weights, my rest time between sets was shorter, which I think had an impact. My back was fatigued by set 8, so I was having trouble arching. Plus, I wasn't doing as good a job sitting back on the box, and my knees were coming in. Not nearly as good as last week.

I got the dip squat stand built, and did several sets with that at a lighter weight, doing my best to sit back as far as I could.

On a higher note, the guys were doing speed pulls while I was working, and they had 425 on the bar. I was still wearing my suit, so I had Hannibal put my straps up, put on a belt, and pulled it. :D

It was a 20lb PR, beating my 30lb PR from the St. Louis comp. Felt pretty good about that, especially after 15 sets of squats and all my accessory work.
 
Just another thing to try...

I've found that doing romanian deadlifts with a snatch grip takes my lower back out almost completely. Hammers hams/glutes.

Plus you really have to work to keep a good arch.
 
An update:

I did the squats as Bob recommended for quite a while, and my form has improved dramatically...Hannibal and spatts tell me that I actually squat now! I did speed work last week with 135+blues, and had only a minor deterioration of form.

The seated GM's, pull throughs, dip squats, and sumo pulls have all helped a great deal.

Over on this thread I posted about another benefit...a 138lb PR, thanks to stronger hips,hamstrings, and glutes.

Can't wait to test my max again. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

UnclePoon
Approved Log Retatrutide Fat loss cycle Log
2
Replies
141
Views
5K
fluffy bunny
fluffy bunny
jsmith32
Approved Log TRT and Cycle Training Log
2
Replies
131
Views
4K
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
Hansky_26
Approved Log Rebuilding Lean Mass and Growing Log - Female
2
Replies
143
Views
5K
rizzlekdizzle
rizzlekdizzle
eazy_
Strength Training for Your Fascia
Replies
3
Views
355
eazy_
eazy_
A
My Equipoise/Test/Anavar Cycle
Replies
6
Views
482
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
Top Bottom