A different train of thought...

[11bInBalad]

I'm looking for some input on something I read a ways ago. The way I understand it there are two pretty broad categories; one, cut as much as you can before your first cycle and two, cutting isn't really important (as long as you are >20% or so bf) as the extra muscle you gain during the cycle will help you lean out down the road.

What is the general concensus about this? Is it critical to be at 4% bf before a cycle? Granted I am sure there are some out there that would say, "If your diet isn't in check enough to lean out, you shouldn't be using gear..." That's all good but things don't work all that peachy for some of us "brick shit-house" kinda guys.

btw, I'm 27, 6'4", 215, and about 19% I've lifted consistently for quite a few years (17.5" arms).

 

[Mr.X]

I'm looking for some input on something I read a ways ago. The way I understand it there are two pretty broad categories; one, cut as much as you can before your first cycle and two, cutting isn't really important (as long as you are >20% or so bf) as the extra muscle you gain during the cycle will help you lean out down the road.

What is the general concensus about this? Is it critical to be at 4% bf before a cycle? Granted I am sure there are some out there that would say, "If your diet isn't in check enough to lean out, you shouldn't be using gear..." That's all good but things don't work all that peachy for some of us "brick shit-house" kinda guys.

btw, I'm 27, 6'4", 215, and about 19% I've lifted consistently for quite a few years (17.5" arms).

if you're going to do a cycle you should be around 10-12% bodyfat. Stick to the basics: get you bf down to low double digits, get your diet and training in check, then consider AS.

Mr.X

 

[Maxx Out]

if you're going to do a cycle you should be around 10-12% bodyfat. Stick to the basics: get you bf down to low double digits, get your diet and training in check, then consider AS.

Mr.X

I totally agree! If your body fat is not in the low teens or less u should reconsider cycling untill u get there.

 

[timtim]

"If your diet isn't in check enough to lean out, you shouldn't be using gear..." That's all good but things don't work all that peachy for some of us "brick shit-house" kinda guys.

understandable. i can say when people make remarks like this one they have never dedicated 12 to 16 weeks to really cut. i think if you try you'll be really happy with the results.

as for cycling with a high bf, be careful. estrogen levels are higher in the body if your bf is high and the addition of aas could lead to estrogenic fat gain which is very hard to lose.

 

[11bInBalad]

thanks for the advice you guys, anyone else care to chime in?

 

[Joe Stenson]

What is the general concensus about this? Is it critical to be at 4% bf before a cycle?

First of all, you'll more than likely NEVER be 4%, ever, period.

Now, as for what bodyfat % you should be before starting a cycle, you have to ask yourself what kind of cycle you're running: bulker, cutter, or body recompositioning. Obviously, the answers differ for all of them.

 

[will b huge]

understandable. i can say when people make remarks like this one they have never dedicated 12 to 16 weeks to really cut. i think if you try you'll be really happy with the results.

as for cycling with a high bf, be careful. estrogen levels are higher in the body if your bf is high and the addition of aas could lead to estrogenic fat gain which is very hard to lose.

I dont buy this as a viable answer---ESTROGEN Levels can be controlled......Extra estrogenic fat is garbage.....I personally believe that even taking test will add muscle and if its under a bunch of fat---it doesnt matter---the more muscle you gain---the more calories/body fat your body will be burning------Its MUCH easier for a fat guy to lose body fat while on Test than it is for a normal guy......(given diets, cardio is the same)


Again, you must learn how/what to cycle and proper PCT----how to train properly-----how to diet properly---etc........(which it looks like you did know previously)...


Good Luck bro..

 

[11bInBalad]

So, Will B, you are saying that as long as PCT is strict (arimidex, nolva, and clomid) and taken the right way than it's not necessarily a bad thing for a guy with a high bf % to stick a bulk cycle? Being my first I was only thinking of QV Enanthate @ 500mg/wk, that's it, nothing fancy.

Training isn't much of a problem for me, I've always been a big boy, not one to have a naturally low bf %.

You said, "It's much easier for a fat guy to lose bf while on test than it is for a normal guy." What's your experience with that? Know anyone that has done a cycle with a moderately high bf %? Thanks for your input.

 

[guiness2]

I find it hard to believe he is 6'4 and 215 at 19% unless he has absolutely no muscle. I'm 6'4 and the lighest i've been is around 215 at probably 12-13% and I had nooooo muscle. i'm now 255 at around the same bodyfat and i don't appear to be a "brick shithouse" <--- doesn't happen at 6'4. at this height a high weight is needed for size because of the large amount of room that needs to be filled.

 

[will b huge]

I find it hard to believe he is 6'4 and 215 at 19% unless he has absolutely no muscle. I'm 6'4 and the lighest i've been is around 215 at probably 12-13% and I had nooooo muscle. i'm now 255 at around the same bodyfat and i don't appear to be a "brick shithouse" <--- doesn't happen at 6'4. at this height a high weight is needed for size because of the large amount of room that needs to be filled.

yea...good point...(didnt see that)------

a good base would be pretty darn beneficial eh????



oh well

 

[11bInBalad]

Maybe not a brick shit house but I definitey am not twig... My point though, is if a nice base HAS been established, even if bf is high, then it's possible to drop bf while still gaining lean mass on a simple, first cycle right?

 

[Joe Stenson]

Maybe not a brick shit house but I definitey am not twig... My point though, is if a nice base HAS been established, even if bf is high, then it's possible to drop bf while still gaining lean mass on a simple, first cycle right?

Yes, you just have to keep your calories in check.

 

[will b huge]

of course, if you can eat properly---high protein, several meals, low fat, lower carbs (proper carbs)-----Train hard and correctly----put in your cardio-----

then yes, you can rip yourself up.......

POINT IS----that most people on here think that you are Fat for a reason and will say that you arent ready for AAS because they think that you dont know how to train or diet.etc..etc..etc....

But a GOOD BASE is very important-----A good base of muscle is more important than what your bodyfat is........

For Example---One of my comp buds---is always at 250+ throughout the offseason (8 months a year) while he diets down to 198 with a 12-16 week diet.........My point here is when he is 250, his bodyfat is quite high and that is when he would run the most AAS to grow even more---utilizing his fat for energy and then he will diet down and be ripped with lots of new muscle under that FAT!!!!!!!!!!

---thats a VERY COMMON APPROACH---but an excellent base is in place under the FAT

 

[11bInBalad]

How much cardio are you talking about?

 

[gymratforlife]

How much cardio are you talking about?

That depends on how fast you want to get things done.

 

[11bInBalad]

What's your opinion of a modest amount while on cycle? Needless to say I want to maximize my gains while on...

 

[gymratforlife]

You have to decide on wether you want to gain muscle or lose BF.You cant get max benefits of gaining muscle while cutting.

 

[11bInBalad]

Definitely want to gain! hehe

 

[gymratforlife]

Definitely want to gain! hehe

Then you must eat eat eat.Then worry about cardio/diet/cutting later.

 

[will b huge]

GYMRAT is speaking the TRUTH!!!

 

[11bInBalad]

Say after a 10wk cycle on 500mg Enanthate (proper PCT and all), what would you anticipate bf % doing (up or down and take a whack at a percentage guess)? Granted each of us is different, speaking generally though...

 

[Joe Stenson]

Say after a 10wk cycle on 500mg Enanthate (proper PCT and all), what would you anticipate bf % doing (up or down and take a whack at a percentage guess)? Granted each of us is different, speaking generally though...

Man, gear doesn't burn fat or build muscle for you, it only aids in the process. Your diet is what is going to determine whether you gain or lose fat during a cycle, and if you're trying to gain a bunch of muscle like it seems you are, you're almost certainly going to gain some bodyfat. If you try for more moderate size gains you should be able to gain muscle and lose fat.

If you're 19% already, either choose the latter option or make sure you cut up a bit before you start.

 

[Gaffa]

Interesting thread,i was thinking along the same lines as 11bInBalad.I was told that i was to heavy to cyle for 10 weeks on Test E.I listened to the experts then decided to do a 4-6 weeks worth of hard cardio with gym work.But listening to some of the reply's here,if your basic frame is good enough,it should be ok to cycle(or am i wrong?)....Sry to hijack thread ......Also i havnt done any weight training for 5 weeks(think i broke my hand)plus i havnt started the cardio,that starts monday so take it easy on my BF .

 

[nishnish]

gaffa, you need at least another 4-6 MONTHS to get your diet and training regimen in check. i understand you broke your hand and all, but i think you will find the results of your proposed cycle MUCH more satisfying if you get in shape first. i can see some muscle there in your shoulders, arms, and upper back, but you really need to get dialed in bro.

trust me, this way you will maximize the effetiveness of the cycle when you finally use.

 

[Gaffa]

Thx for the advice Nishnish cheers m8.