A cycle for those on HRT?

[strongsmartsexy]

If you're on HRT and want to do a cycle, do you continue using the same amount of HRT and then ADD the cycle to it, or do you drop the HRT stuff and just increase one of the base components to make up for the low test levels?

 

[CLOMIDCLOWN]

bump

 

[sportjuicer]

If you're on HRT and want to do a cycle, do you continue using the same amount of HRT and then ADD the cycle to it, or do you drop the HRT stuff and just increase one of the base components to make up for the low test levels?

For what its worth,while I was on HRT I was using Deca,then EQ.The doc was giving me 200mg every two weeks,then once a month then once a quarter. Could not talk him into doing it any longer. Once my test levels were above an 18yr old.

 

[Dave949]

Could someone explain exactly what is given ot taken during HRT ?

Thanks

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Could someone explain exactly what is given ot taken during HRT ?

Thanks

Most doctors give you either an injectible or a topical testosterone. It's usually around 100mg/week or less. Some of the more aggressive treatments will be higher, especially from the anti-aging groups...

 

[Dave949]

Most doctors give you either an injectible or a topical testosterone. It's usually around 100mg/week or less. Some of the more aggressive treatments will be higher, especially from the anti-aging groups...

I`m down with that..... and at my age would / should certainly qualify (I would think anyway). If anyone has any experience with doctor prescribed HRT, would 100mg/week make a difference ? From what I hear the topical is kinda useless......but again.....I`ve only heard this. I do not have any first hand knowledge. Any expansion on the subject would be most welcomed and appreciated

Pump on .....

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I`m down with that..... and at my age would / should certainly qualify (I would think anyway). If anyone has any experience with doctor prescribed HRT, would 100mg/week make a difference ? From what I hear the topical is kinda useless......but again.....I`ve only heard this. I do not have any first hand knowledge. Any expansion on the subject would be most welcomed and appreciated

Pump on .....

I'm on HRT and 100mg/week sucks huge time! Think half life... You rollercoaster like a bandit. I do well around 250mg/week. I then built my cycle off of that.

Most of the guys I talked to stay on year round and just increase the doses for a cycle and then drop at the end of the cycle... Other's I've heard will just come off for about 4 weeks and start on their maintenance dose again. (200 - 300mg/wk)

Not all will use HCG. Most seem to do bloodwork at least twice a year.

 

[Dave949]

I`m a little leary of test. Was thinking of going route anavar myself. From some 40+ yr. old bros I chatted with the bounce back after going off test is pretty harsh and takes forever.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I`m a little leary of test. Was thinking of going route anavar myself. From some 40+ yr. old bros I chatted with the bounce back after going off test is pretty harsh and takes forever.

Well, those of us on HRT typically don't have any bounceback. When I'm not on, my levels are in the 100s. HRT is for life.

 

[Dave949]

No negatives associated with lifelong ? Please Excuse my ignorance.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

No negatives associated with lifelong ? Please Excuse my ignorance.

I don't know if they've studied long enough to determine any long time effects. However, there are some significant long time effects for being hypogonadal (andropause). None of 'em are good. I know that I've read a few studies about prolonged use of Test from 100mg/wk to 600mg/wk and from them I liked the idea of being on 600mg/wk if their conclusions were correct.

Again, it's important to note that men in andropause lack their essential hormone (testosterone) in their system. Coming off cycle for them even with PCT means not having enough testosterone in their systems.

 

[40butpumpin]

If you're on HRT and want to do a cycle, do you continue using the same amount of HRT and then ADD the cycle to it, or do you drop the HRT stuff and just increase one of the base components to make up for the low test levels?

i've been on hrt and i did the latter. so i would just save my test that i obtained through scripts and then used another test, preferably sust, at a higher dose, and then added to that whatever. i did that because i like sust over all tests and i just figured i'd save the pharmacy test for an emergency.

 

[CLOMIDCLOWN]

anyone ever hear of using hrt as PCT at 100mg/week test cyp
my friend found out he had low test and the doctor recommended hrt but he wanted to go through the cycle first. doctor then recommends starting the test as pct... is this realistic at such a low dosage?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

anyone ever hear of using hrt as PCT at 100mg/week test cyp
my friend found out he had low test and the doctor recommended hrt but he wanted to go through the cycle first. doctor then recommends starting the test as pct... is this realistic at such a low dosage?

70 - 100mg/wk of test cyp is "normal" pct. It bounces you all over the place though. just take a look at the half life graphs and you'll see what I mean. Most older gents I talk to use 200 - 300mg/wk though... It's not "standard" procedure though...

 

[sportjuicer]

Just had my blood work. My test level was 155.Have been on and off HRT for the last two years. I'm seeing a urologist.He gave me a shot and androgel. Going back in six for more blood work. He wants to keep it around 800.
I have a question.Does anyone know if Deca or EQ will change test levels? I don't think it will,but if I take something that jumps my test levels right now my doc might ask questions. I want to use him on off cycle times.Any suggestions?

 

[40butpumpin]

Just had my blood work. My test level was 155.Have been on and off HRT for the last two years. I'm seeing a urologist.He gave me a shot and androgel. Going back in six for more blood work. He wants to keep it around 800.
I have a question.Does anyone know if Deca or EQ will change test levels? I don't think it will,but if I take something that jumps my test levels right now my doc might ask questions. I want to use him on off cycle times.Any suggestions?

wow, consider yourself fortunate to have a doc that wants to maintain you at 800. most would be fine with half that. as far as i know deca nor eq will raise your test levels, but bump for more help on this though since i'm not 100% sure.

 

[Big Duke 3]

Good information in this thread. I'm 38 yrs. old and have been on HRT off and on now for a couple of years. The only thing the medical community will prescribe for your testosterone deficiency is Depo-Testosterone (cypionate).
Since all the other forms of Anabolics have not been shown to increase your testosterone levels that is why the defacto standard of Test. is prescribed for Hypogonadism. (low natural testosterone count).

My experience is that most of the Docs are clueless about Anabolics in general and especially as it relates to muscle building. The guys on this forum know more about this stuff than most of the medical community.

I ended up seeing some "old school" Urologist who initially put me on 400mg test every 4 weeks but that didn't last long cause I bitched about the rollercoaster ride peak and trough effects of that treatment. ie..felt good for the first couple weeks then would feel like shit for the next 14 days while I waited to get my next shot "fix". After much persuasion and showing him various medical studies, I ended up getting him to agree on 300mg. every 2 weeks. That worked out well and I was able to "grow" on that dosage over a years time. If I wanted to run a cycle I would just add to that baseline level and do my cycle. Fairly good results overall but reached a point of diminishing returns on that dosage as my body got used to that amount of test. and it was like my body was saturated and not responding anymore. I essentially hit a plateau. I did my own PCT cause the docs were reluctant to prescribe any anti-estrogens. Old school fuckers have no clue that I wanted it to build muscle and improve my physique while trying to minimize the negative side effects.

As it turns out, the old lady told me she wanted another kid and my fertility was completely fucked. Almost zero sperm count due to the yearlong cypionate. I came off altogether and boy was that terrible. Depression,lack of energy/aggresiveness, lost some size and strength, the usual sides. Didn't have a good source lined up so it was a while trying to get some clomid to address the fertility issue.

Currently the old lady is 6 months pregnant so shit worked out and I'm getting ramped up for another cycle this fall and joined this community to get "Educated".

Someone asked a question earlier in this post about transdermal gels and their effectiveness. I can speak from personal experience on this one cause I ended up seeing a "new" Urologist and he wanted me to try a testosterone gel for HRT. In a nut shell it sucks for muscle building cause the strength levels are far too weak to support what we are all after here. It does do what it is designed to do however..put your testosterone in the range of 600 to 800 ng/dl. Not strong enough to do the job. This latest product is called Testim. I'm sure it is similar to androgel. It has a steady release into the bloodstream over a 24 hr. period and puts me at about 650 on the scale. I'll just keep doing that and go back to my injections of 300mg test and run it with something else and try to get a good cycle out of it.

After many long months of fighting with insurance companies and numerous Docs, I finally got the system figured out. The whole insurance thing is a scam and you gotta learn how to beat them at their own game. It pays to study all the fine print in the insurance documents regarding your benefits and all that shit cause in the long run these clowns are paying for my Cypionate. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give my 2 cents to the HRT issue. Now I just got to purchase that E-book from this site on successful steroid mail ordering.

 

[sportjuicer]

Good post!I agree with you on the roller coaster ride!! My level is 155 right now,but six months ago it was at 3400.One day I was ok,the next I would be depressed as hell. My insurance pays for the injections and for the andorgel. I get the androgel filled but do not use it except to help with PCT.But, like you I am having trouble getting my doc to prescribe anti-e meds and someone I know here said you really need an anti-e when using androgel.Not sure what to do about getting doc to get off his ass on the anti-e thing.

Good information in this thread. I'm 38 yrs. old and have been on HRT off and on now for a couple of years. The only thing the medical community will prescribe for your testosterone deficiency is Depo-Testosterone (cypionate).
Since all the other forms of Anabolics have not been shown to increase your testosterone levels that is why the defacto standard of Test. is prescribed for Hypogonadism. (low natural testosterone count).

My experience is that most of the Docs are clueless about Anabolics in general and especially as it relates to muscle building. The guys on this forum know more about this stuff than most of the medical community.

I ended up seeing some "old school" Urologist who initially put me on 400mg test every 4 weeks but that didn't last long cause I bitched about the rollercoaster ride peak and trough effects of that treatment. ie..felt good for the first couple weeks then would feel like shit for the next 14 days while I waited to get my next shot "fix". After much persuasion and showing him various medical studies, I ended up getting him to agree on 300mg. every 2 weeks. That worked out well and I was able to "grow" on that dosage over a years time. If I wanted to run a cycle I would just add to that baseline level and do my cycle. Fairly good results overall but reached a point of diminishing returns on that dosage as my body got used to that amount of test. and it was like my body was saturated and not responding anymore. I essentially hit a plateau. I did my own PCT cause the docs were reluctant to prescribe any anti-estrogens. Old school fuckers have no clue that I wanted it to build muscle and improve my physique while trying to minimize the negative side effects.

As it turns out, the old lady told me she wanted another kid and my fertility was completely fucked. Almost zero sperm count due to the yearlong cypionate. I came off altogether and boy was that terrible. Depression,lack of energy/aggresiveness, lost some size and strength, the usual sides. Didn't have a good source lined up so it was a while trying to get some clomid to address the fertility issue.

Currently the old lady is 6 months pregnant so shit worked out and I'm getting ramped up for another cycle this fall and joined this community to get "Educated".

Someone asked a question earlier in this post about transdermal gels and their effectiveness. I can speak from personal experience on this one cause I ended up seeing a "new" Urologist and he wanted me to try a testosterone gel for HRT. In a nut shell it sucks for muscle building cause the strength levels are far too weak to support what we are all after here. It does do what it is designed to do however..put your testosterone in the range of 600 to 800 ng/dl. Not strong enough to do the job. This latest product is called Testim. I'm sure it is similar to androgel. It has a steady release into the bloodstream over a 24 hr. period and puts me at about 650 on the scale. I'll just keep doing that and go back to my injections of 300mg test and run it with something else and try to get a good cycle out of it.

After many long months of fighting with insurance companies and numerous Docs, I finally got the system figured out. The whole insurance thing is a scam and you gotta learn how to beat them at their own game. It pays to study all the fine print in the insurance documents regarding your benefits and all that shit cause in the long run these clowns are paying for my Cypionate. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give my 2 cents to the HRT issue. Now I just got to purchase that E-book from this site on successful steroid mail ordering.

 

[Big Duke 3]

Good post!I agree with you on the roller coaster ride!! My level is 155 right now,but six months ago it was at 3400.One day I was ok,the next I would be depressed as hell. My insurance pays for the injections and for the andorgel. I get the androgel filled but do not use it except to help with PCT.But, like you I am having trouble getting my doc to prescribe anti-e meds and someone I know here said you really need an anti-e when using androgel.Not sure what to do about getting doc to get off his ass on the anti-e thing.

I am essentially doing the same thing that you are and "stockpiling" my 10ml. vials of test for an upcoming cycle As far as prescribing anti-E's for you, I had the same problem with my Doc. He said he didn't want me on long term anti-E's orally due to the prolonged effect of liver toxicity associated with orals. (hepatoxicity). When you have your blood work done make sure he/she checks your estrogen levels, specifically Estradiol. If Estradiol gets too high then you need an anti-estrogen. When you are taking supraphysiological doses of AAS, naturally some will convert or "Aromatize" to estrogens and you want to minimize this with anti-E's. Testosterone is one of the AAS that easily Aromitizes at elevated dosages. Of course, it is different for different people. Some people are lucky and this does not happen to them and they don't get the usual bloating/water retention/Gynocomastia(bitch tits) issues. Unfortunately, I am not one of those lucky ones. I balloon up easily and always have to worry about the aromitization issues. Hence, my need for anti-estrogen therapy. I have not had that problem on this weak ass testim transdermal issue but as soon as I go back to the injections it will be an issue for me.

 

[40butpumpin]

Good information in this thread. I'm 38 yrs. old and have been on HRT off and on now for a couple of years. The only thing the medical community will prescribe for your testosterone deficiency is Depo-Testosterone (cypionate).

just fyi bro, test enanthate is also available, that's what I was getting.

 

[Big Duke 3]

just fyi bro, test enanthate is also available, that's what I was getting.

Thanks for that juicy tidbit of info brother. I will have to investigate that one with my Doc/Insurance company. I'll have to search around on this board and re-familiarize myself with that version of test and see what the pro/con issues are with that. The thing I hate is that I always have to "jump through the hoop" so to speak and "sell the idea" to these clowns. Have to get them out of their rut of only prescribing cypionate for HRT. Maybe thats all my insurance plan will cover, who knows but I'll definately look into it.

Guess I could always go through a longevity center who is more aggressive with HRT and they would also prescribe Deca as well but their cost is to high for my liking. Couldn't get any of my docs to agree to the deca thing. Guess I can't blame them though from their perspective they are only interested in replacing your natural test levels....not supporting you to grow lean mass associated with weight training and all the other benefits that we want out of the HRT thing. If they suspect that you want the juice for anything other than HRT, they are inclined to cut you off thinking you are wanting steriods for weightlifting. Silly fucks, why would I want that??

 

[40butpumpin]

bro give me a day and i'll find out from my pharmacy what pharm. company makes it. i can't for the life of me remember at this moment.

Thanks for that juicy tidbit of info brother. I will have to investigate that one with my Doc/Insurance company. I'll have to search around on this board and re-familiarize myself with that version of test and see what the pro/con issues are with that. The thing I hate is that I always have to "jump through the hoop" so to speak and "sell the idea" to these clowns. Have to get them out of their rut of only prescribing cypionate for HRT. Maybe thats all my insurance plan will cover, who knows but I'll definately look into it.

Guess I could always go through a longevity center who is more aggressive with HRT and they would also prescribe Deca as well but their cost is to high for my liking. Couldn't get any of my docs to agree to the deca thing. Guess I can't blame them though from their perspective they are only interested in replacing your natural test levels....not supporting you to grow lean mass associated with weight training and all the other benefits that we want out of the HRT thing. If they suspect that you want the juice for anything other than HRT, they are inclined to cut you off thinking you are wanting steriods for weightlifting. Silly fucks, why would I want that??

 

[Big Duke 3]

bro give me a day and i'll find out from my pharmacy what pharm. company makes it. i can't for the life of me remember at this moment.

O.K...Thanks Bro.

 

[40butpumpin]

O.K...Thanks Bro.

here ya go bro, this is the stuff I was getting from either a CVS or Rite Aid Pharmacy, which are major chains:

Delatestryl by BTG/Bristol Meyers

i'm sure your doc can scribe that for ya bro, if you don't wish to use cyp. i personally prefer enanthate over cyp.

good luck to you brother.

 

[Big Duke 3]

here ya go bro, this is the stuff I was getting from either a CVS or Rite Aid Pharmacy, which are major chains:

Delatestryl by BTG/Bristol Meyers

i'm sure your doc can scribe that for ya bro, if you don't wish to use cyp. i personally prefer enanthate over cyp.

good luck to you brother.

Thanks for the info. Why do you personally prefer enanthate?? Please describe why as opposed to cypionate?

I researched the profile on enanthate and compared it to cypionate and they seem pretty similar with the exception that the reference I used said enanthate might hang on longer in the bloodstream which would require reduced dosing schedule as compared to cyp. Seems like the side effects were virtually the same,(according to the source material I read),being that they are both highly andogenic with the usual sides of water retention/gynocomastia,aggression/acne type stuff.

I could care less about the aggression issue I only get affected by water retention and gynecomastia.

So why do you prefer the enanthate? Thanks much

 

[40butpumpin]

Thanks for the info. Why do you personally prefer enanthate?? Please describe why as opposed to cypionate?

I researched the profile on enanthate and compared it to cypionate and they seem pretty similar with the exception that the reference I used said enanthate might hang on longer in the bloodstream which would require reduced dosing schedule as compared to cyp. Seems like the side effects were virtually the same,(according to the source material I read),being that they are both highly andogenic with the usual sides of water retention/gynocomastia,aggression/acne type stuff.

I could care less about the aggression issue I only get affected by water retention and gynecomastia.

So why do you prefer the enanthate? Thanks much

only because i feel like i bloat more on cyp. don't get me wrong, if i only had access to cyp i'd use it, but if i had a choice, i'd choose enanthate.

 

[Big Duke 3]

only because i feel like i bloat more on cyp. don't get me wrong, if i only had access to cyp i'd use it, but if i had a choice, i'd choose enanthate.

Thanks for the info brother....much appreciated.

 

[sportjuicer]

Ok,can anyone tell me if Deca or Laurabolin will change test levels while on HRT? I am on HRT and my doctor is trying to get my levels stable at around 800. I do NOT want to screw up my test levels,if I do my doctor won't give me amount of test that it would take to keep me at 800. any help will be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Big Duke 3]

Ok,can anyone tell me if Deca or Laurabolin will change test levels while on HRT? I am on HRT and my doctor is trying to get my levels stable at around 800. I do NOT want to screw up my test levels,if I do my doctor won't give me amount of test that it would take to keep me at 800. any help will be greatly appreciated!!

I do not believe that the Deca will affect your Test. readings but I'm not sure about the Laurabolin.

 

[Dial_tone]

I'm not on HRT (yet) since at 39 I feel like my levels are still pretty high. I'm also ultra sensitive to estrogen gyno so the way I would do it when I start would be:

- keep test at 100mg/week year round even while on
- cycle with low-aromatizing stuff (Fina, EQ, Deca, masteron)

 

[Goldprospector]

My problem is low thyroid output. I can smell food and gain fat. it is hard as hell to lose weight. My numbers were just above borderline and all the doc would say was "welcome to the wonderful world of aging". Anyway, if I use test for long periods, I do notice E related fat gains that I get even while keeping the diet the same as it was before Test. What I mean is, I am a pretty finicky eater, I don't eat a wide variety of foods. I eat pretty much the same foods all of the time and I get the majority of my protien through shakes. I don't eat "Uh-healthy" but I eat a lot of meat and potatoes type things. But without injecting test, I can maintain my BF%, but when I do inject and eat the same food amounts, I gain fat.
Does this make sense? If so, any suggestions because I love the feeling I have on long term Test!
BTW, I am 37 yrs old. 6'5" 240lbs and back up to 17% BF%. (was down to 14 or so before my last test cycle)

 

[Dial_tone]

70 - 100mg/wk of test cyp is "normal" pct. It bounces you all over the place though. just take a look at the half life graphs and you'll see what I mean. Most older gents I talk to use 200 - 300mg/wk though... It's not "standard" procedure though...

If you re-inject when half of the half-life has expired your levels should stay within 15% or so, eh?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

If you re-inject when half of the half-life has expired your levels should stay within 15% or so, eh?

That would seem to be the case, although I've seen where drjmw and others recommend taking it all in one inject weekly. Most of those who are doing HRT that I've talked to tend to do more than one inject a week. I know I do.

 

[Dial_tone]

I switched my Deca from 2x/week to 1x/week about a month ago; can't recall why though. I think I just wanted to do fewer shots since I get hard spots at injection sites.

 

[mitochondriaman]

Hey guys. I'm on HRT as well. I get 200mg of test enan every 10 days. Does anyone know if I do a cycle if I need to take clomid to regain what little production I have? Also, I wanted to verify that my lab test values won't increase if I take deca, anavar, or primo. thanks for any info

 

[Dial_tone]

Hey guys. I'm on HRT as well. I get 200mg of test enan every 10 days. Does anyone know if I do a cycle if I need to take clomid to regain what little production I have? Also, I wanted to verify that my lab test values won't increase if I take deca, anavar, or primo. thanks for any info

The little production you have probably isn't worth recovering; I wouldn't worry about it. Plus the 200mg test would be too much to cause your body to stimulate recovery anyway.

 

[sportjuicer]

My doc started me on a Striant,30mg test daily.Its a SMALL tab you put between your top lip and gum.It stays in place for twelve hours,then you take it out and put another one on the other side.He says I won't have the roller coaster levels.

 

[Dial_tone]

I think I'm going to stop this cycle next week (11 total), stay off til Christmas, get bloodwork done then try 6-12 months of 300-400mg/week.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I think I'm going to stop this cycle next week (11 total), stay off til Christmas, get bloodwork done then try 6-12 months of 300-400mg/week.

That notion of running just a maintenance dose of test (100mg/wk) with 300 - 400mg of either deca or EQ and rotating them every 8 weeks or so appeals to me like crazy.

 

[Dial_tone]

That notion of running just a maintenance dose of test (100mg/wk) with 300 - 400mg of either deca or EQ and rotating them every 8 weeks or so appeals to me like crazy.

wonder what happens in the first month after you switch over or if it would make sense to overlap somewhat. I suppose if you're on the whole year it wouldn't make much diff in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Ulter]

Hello everyone my name is Ulter and I am a steroid user.

I have been using steroids most of the last 20 years. When I was young my testes didn't make enough test. I didn't know this until much later and never gave it much thought. There were upsides like not getting acne in high school, but there were down sides like not growing facial hair, having a normal sex drive, or being able to hold more than 140 pounds on my 6 foot frame. In my mid 20's I discovered steroids. They changed everything. By 31 I was 255 pounds and screwed everything in my path.
Fast forward to July 4, 2000. I am 44 and discovered Dr Scruggs. What a great doctor. He would write me a script for 200mg/wk of test and 200mg/wk of deca and gh and oxandrolone and my insurance paid for it all. I was on my first cycle with him about 6 weeks when I asked him, "when do I have to come off". He said, "why do you want to come off?". Well, I didn't have an answer for that. So I stayed on. In my research I learned that, as was mentioned here, researchers were now using up to 600mg/wk of test to measure it's effects. The U of Iowa was using 500mg/wk. After looking at the Shandi and several other reviews of steroids literature I learned that the use of test at 500mg/wk was not dangerous at all. In fact there was no evidence that there was any linear decline in health from 100mg/wk to 600mg/wk. NONE. So I called Dr Scruggs and we talked about it for about an hour. In his 20 years of giving out test/deca to body builders he had found that there was no decline in the health of his patients even after many years of 300mg/wk test and 300mg/wk of deca. Well that was enough for me.

Right now and for the last 3 years I have used 400-500mg/wk of test and 300-400mg of deca. My blood work is clear and my echostress shows the heart of a track star. The cardiologist tells me I am his healthiest patient.
When I want to cycle, which is about 5 times a year for 6 weeks, sometimes 8, I will adjust the doses according to what I want to do with my body at the time and then just go back to me 500/400 dose when I am done.
I should add here that I use the deca because when I don't I can't even put my coat on by myself without great pain in my shoulders that have been scoped twice to no avail. And for those of you who wonder about sterility. That’s a myth. My sperm count is excellent.

My current cycle is to add size I lost last year when I couldn’t train due to a metal plate/bone fusion in my neck. Where it meets my traps. I guess I herniated it over the years setting the bar back there for squats.
Anyways, I added NPP at 800mg, dropped the deca and rose the test to 800mg. THIS is working very well for me now that I added the ISO AGB we sell as a my protein supplement. I had always used food for protein. I am only about 10-15 pounds away from my target of 230 and my legs suck not doing squats anymore.
I will finish this cycle and go back to my 500/400 routine in about 3 weeks from now.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

 

[Dial_tone]

I should add here that I use the deca because when I don't I can't even put my coat on by myself without great pain in my shoulders that have been scoped twice to no avail. And for those of you who wonder about sterility. That’s a myth. My sperm count is excellent.

How can you say it's a myth when there are people all over the world working on a male birth control method involving testosterone and/or progestins?

 

[Ulter]

It's a myth because both studies funded by the World Health Organization found that both testosterone and nandrolone are worthless for male contraception. Ask your endocrinologist if he recommends AS for male contraception.

 

[Dial_tone]

In the WHO trials, two-thirds of men were rendered azoospermic (ie, having sperm counts of zero), while 91% of the men achieved sperm counts below 1 x 106/mL (normal value, > 20 x 106/mL).3

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/172_06_200300/mclachlan/mclachlan.html

 

[Ulter]

In the WHO trials, two-thirds of men were rendered azoospermic (ie, having sperm counts of zero), while 91% of the men achieved sperm counts below 1 x 106/mL (normal value, > 20 x 106/mL).3

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/172_06_200300/mclachlan/mclachlan.html

2/3 is unacceptable and probably why they dropped it. Like I said, ask your endo if AS is an acceptable male contraceptive. The party line for endo's is no.

I just realized I didn't put HCG in my routine. I use HCG at 1000iu/day for ten days about every 3-4 months. I also take Aromasin every day. This offsets any effects of the AS on my sperm production and probably explains how pros like Ronnie Coleman can have children.

 

[Dial_tone]

most of the info i'm seeing indicates it's probably 5-6 years away.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

2/3 is unacceptable and probably why they dropped it. Like I said, ask your endo if AS is an acceptable male contraceptive. The party line for endo's is no.

I just realized I didn't put HCG in my routine. I use HCG at 1000iu/day for ten days about every 3-4 months. I also take Aromasin every day. This offsets any effects of the AS on my sperm production and probably explains how pros like Ronnie Coleman can have children.

I'm using arimidex .5mg/EOD and use 500iu HCG M, W, F for three weeks about every 3 months. I'm not worried about sperm production since I had that leak fixed YEARS ago.

 

[Dial_tone]

I'm not worried about sperm count as long as it's recoverable. My main concerns are liver and prostate damage. I pretty much have the liver under control since the only oral I use is anavar and I take 6-8 r-ALA tabs ED. I added finasteride this week for the prostate.

 

[Ulter]

There are more studies proving AS doesn't affect your prostate than there are concluding it does. Again I say myth. Even LEF literature doesn't support prostate issues as a concern. Liver is silly to worry about with injectables and with Glucorell R your liver cells excellerate their reproduction. You'll be fine.

You should go over to our Bjaarki Library at AnabolicFitness.com and check out some of the AS literature reviews. All the studies in the library are the full studies and not abstracts.

 

[Dial_tone]

That notion of running just a maintenance dose of test (100mg/wk) with 300 - 400mg of either deca or EQ and rotating them every 8 weeks or so appeals to me like crazy.

I'm still tweaking this idea and now I'm thinking of working Anavar and Primo into the rotation, now that I've found a legit source.

 

[kinda5150]

well, this is my first post and can relate to this situation. i'm 33 and have been on hrt for about two years. it took me to actually diagnose the f'ing problem though. first doc told me i was depressed and gave me celexa. took that for several months and really didn't feel any better. pretty much gave up on getting help for several months. then i started researching the net for the symptoms i was having and boom there it was--low test.

decided to go try a different doc. told him my symptoms and told him about not responding to the anti-depressant. he said he would do some blood work to rule out any physiological problems. i asked him specifically what would be tested--liver, blood cell counts, yadda yadda. i told him to i wanted my test and estradiol levels checked too. in a very condescending tone he asked why in the world would i need that, to which i informed him that was what my research had concluded as a strong possibility. this attitude coming from a dr who didn't even know what CLA or ALA was!!

the funny part--i get a letter from him about a week later with the lab results showing my test was 197 and note telling me i did in fact have low test. he included a prescription for androgel and told me to come back in four weeks. that's it, didn't explain anything else or any other alternatives. i was more interested in restoring my own levels than going on some lifelong medication. to make a long story longer i sought out an endocrinologist who immediately had more blood work done and a MRI of my head. he wanted to make sure i didn't have a pituitary lesion/tumor. which i didn't. tsh and igf1 levels were also low, albeit the very bottom f'ing number of the "normal" range. get this, this asshole tried to tell me that by taking anti-depressants i could get my levels back in the normal range! wtf?!! if somebody else has heard this, then please enlighten me.
well after leaving that dude too, i finally found a cool ass doc. he lifts and has no problem getting me to the level i want. started me off on test enth 200mg for the first month, then 400 a month--to which i told him i'd rather take the 200 every two weeks. after going back the next month for testing--i still felt like ass--my levels came back lower than when i started-167. on top of that i was having some massive conversion to dht--i assume this because acne was horrendous, hairline crept back even further, grew hair in places it shouldn't, and my beard grew quicker and thicker and grayer then before. this is all after just ten f'ing weeks and 800mg total. he was puzzled as was i. i mean, i knew about the probable dht conversion, but couldn't figure out why my levels would be lower than baseline 14 days after last shot.

he directed me to another endocrinologist--she explained that whole peak/trough business and said i was at the bottom of the trough at 14 days and the peak is like 4 days. either way, i told her i didn't wanna stab myself anymore right now--so i could hord the shit for later--so she wanted me to use testim. i'm thinking great, another damn topical piece of crap. oh, forgot to mention i never got my test level above 290 with the androgel. four weeks after using testim my level was right at 790. ok, so i'm pretty f'ing stoked about this. considering i've been under 200 for who knows how long, this was at least psychologically uplifting. although i still didn't feel any better. at the six week mark i developed some serious skin problems anyplace i applied the stuff. started like little flea or mosquito bites, only they wouldn't stop itching!! i'm thinking great, i finally find something that i know works and i can't even take the shit anymore. so my only remaining alternatives were going back to the shot, patch, or pellet. i don't know about you, but ain't nobody inserting anything around the johnson. shaving my nuts and attaching an adhesive object to them also didn't sound viable. lastly she mentioned the striant--which was mentioned in a previous reply. i'm in my fifth week of it and still don't feel any better. however, a few weeks ago and many complaints of fatigue and decreased energy, the doc put me on adderral (amphetamines). no you can't have any!! there mine, mine i say!! ha ha. these work pretty well but not wonderful. the rebound is aweful and i have to take them every three or four hours. they have an extended release version which i'll probably snag when i go back for my blood work.

damn, i'm sorry for being so long winded to those few of you who actually read it all. i just wanted to put it out there that i've been through the ringer trying to get straightened out and i'm still not all the way there. however, for the first time in a long time i'm starting to feel somewhat normal again.

i actually do have a question--since my thyroid levels are low, would it be wiser to take some t4 or t3 instead of the amphetamine to help with energy levels and actually lose some fat?

thanks for hearing me out guys and i appreciate any help.

 

[Dial_tone]

There are more studies proving AS doesn't affect your prostate than there are concluding it does. Again I say myth. Even LEF literature doesn't support prostate issues as a concern. Liver is silly to worry about with injectables and with Glucorell R your liver cells excellerate their reproduction. You'll be fine.

You should go over to our Bjaarki Library at AnabolicFitness.com and check out some of the AS literature reviews. All the studies in the library are the full studies and not abstracts.

I would if I could figure out how to get to it.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I would if I could figure out how to get to it.

If you're a member of anabolicfitness.com, just select the message boards, then the anabolics board. At the top in the center you'll see a link to those libraries. TONS of stuff.

 

[Jack Stack]

I,m also new to the Forum and this is my 2nd post and I guess,my first reply to any thread.I also am a HRT man(Depot-Test 100-200mg IM self-injection about every 10-14 days).My levels got down there(about 79ng/dl)when I began therapy 6 mos.ago.What has really caught my attention about this whole 3 page trhead is the fact that I ain,t seen not one person even mention PSA levels or Prostate problems or concerns.Where I live,if you got high PSA or a bit of swell in the P-gland= NO TEST!What,s it like elsewhere?BTW,I live in the Piedmont Triad area of NC.Jack Stack

 

[satchboogie]

politically involved bump

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I,m also new to the Forum and this is my 2nd post and I guess,my first reply to any thread.I also am a HRT man(Depot-Test 100-200mg IM self-injection about every 10-14 days).My levels got down there(about 79ng/dl)when I began therapy 6 mos.ago.What has really caught my attention about this whole 3 page trhead is the fact that I ain,t seen not one person even mention PSA levels or Prostate problems or concerns.Where I live,if you got high PSA or a bit of swell in the P-gland= NO TEST!What,s it like elsewhere?BTW,I live in the Piedmont Triad area of NC.Jack Stack

You'll find PSA levels discussed in other topics ad nausea. I've yet to see a study where levels of testosterone below 600mg/wk caused an elevation in PSA levels which would begin to cause concern. Secondarily, you're likely to find that the real concerns when it comes to prostrate have more to do with excess estrogen than with testosterone. There is still significant debate about this however.

 

[topcat51]

I'm 51 yrs and am currently going to an endo in my area to get prescribed hgh. He is also concerned with my test levels being low and has me on a measly 100mg eow. But thats all good and fine because I went initially for the growth hormone . He will not give me a scipt so I drop by eow for my injection . I also know that this small amount does not even phase me so I supplement with my own 600 mg a week of cyp. I have researched and have found out that I should get off a month before bloodwork to get my test levels back in the range that he will be happy with . I have no prob getting test at rediculously low cost but have to play his game so I can keep my presciption for the humatrope . I did have to go through all of the lab work and do have hypo pituitarism , which anyone over 45 has , and have been prescibed the humatrope . Each time my blood levels are checked I have still been in the low range and he has upped my dosage by 1/2 iu a time . I have been on the humatrope for about 8 months and am currently doing 2iu daily . I have lost about 10 lbs of fat , skin elasticity is much better , feel sharper mentally and hair growth is faster and seems thicker . Not to sure at this point about muscle growth . Everything that I read says that it takes at least 4iu daily to effect muscle growth . Anyway , My endocrinologist says that he will keep me on for life and my insurance pays 90%. I will enjoy the anti-aging benefits from the hgh and I do assure you that it works . Any questions, feel free to ask . Goodluck ! Topcat51

 

[40butpumpin]

hey bro, thanks for posting this. i can't figure why i now get such severe night sweats from deca, i used to love the stuff. is the doc accessible online?

Hello everyone my name is Ulter and I am a steroid user.

I have been using steroids most of the last 20 years. When I was young my testes didn't make enough test. I didn't know this until much later and never gave it much thought. There were upsides like not getting acne in high school, but there were down sides like not growing facial hair, having a normal sex drive, or being able to hold more than 140 pounds on my 6 foot frame. In my mid 20's I discovered steroids. They changed everything. By 31 I was 255 pounds and screwed everything in my path.
Fast forward to July 4, 2000. I am 44 and discovered Dr Scruggs. What a great doctor. He would write me a script for 200mg/wk of test and 200mg/wk of deca and gh and oxandrolone and my insurance paid for it all. I was on my first cycle with him about 6 weeks when I asked him, "when do I have to come off". He said, "why do you want to come off?". Well, I didn't have an answer for that. So I stayed on. In my research I learned that, as was mentioned here, researchers were now using up to 600mg/wk of test to measure it's effects. The U of Iowa was using 500mg/wk. After looking at the Shandi and several other reviews of steroids literature I learned that the use of test at 500mg/wk was not dangerous at all. In fact there was no evidence that there was any linear decline in health from 100mg/wk to 600mg/wk. NONE. So I called Dr Scruggs and we talked about it for about an hour. In his 20 years of giving out test/deca to body builders he had found that there was no decline in the health of his patients even after many years of 300mg/wk test and 300mg/wk of deca. Well that was enough for me.

Right now and for the last 3 years I have used 400-500mg/wk of test and 300-400mg of deca. My blood work is clear and my echostress shows the heart of a track star. The cardiologist tells me I am his healthiest patient.
When I want to cycle, which is about 5 times a year for 6 weeks, sometimes 8, I will adjust the doses according to what I want to do with my body at the time and then just go back to me 500/400 dose when I am done.
I should add here that I use the deca because when I don't I can't even put my coat on by myself without great pain in my shoulders that have been scoped twice to no avail. And for those of you who wonder about sterility. That’s a myth. My sperm count is excellent.

My current cycle is to add size I lost last year when I couldn’t train due to a metal plate/bone fusion in my neck. Where it meets my traps. I guess I herniated it over the years setting the bar back there for squats.
Anyways, I added NPP at 800mg, dropped the deca and rose the test to 800mg. THIS is working very well for me now that I added the ISO AGB we sell as a my protein supplement. I had always used food for protein. I am only about 10-15 pounds away from my target of 230 and my legs suck not doing squats anymore.
I will finish this cycle and go back to my 500/400 routine in about 3 weeks from now.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

 

[JKurz1]

DId any on you experience very low ejaculation, lack of sesation, etc. before HRT? ANy of you guys under 30 years old? How is your fertility?

 

[Jack Stack]

It never ceases to amaze me how the Docs around here where I live(Piedmont Area of North Carolina)can stay so far behind the times.I been keepin up with the replies to this thread and can,t believe the doses of Test and other stuff some of you guys get from your Docs!I got checked in Dec.,2003 and the report showed my Test levels at 79 ng/dl.My conservative doc put me on Depot inj. at 100mg etw,so in 6 mos.,I went back in,this time it was 180ng/dl so she raised it to 150mg etw!What is the deal?Jack Stack

 

[geoboy]

I'm on about 200 mg test cyp ew HRT when off cycle. feels good, not much bloodwork issues if any.

 

[Dial_tone]

I started 100mg cyp/week and 300mg EQ/week two weeks ago, plan on staying on for 16 weeks then switching the EQ to something else. I'm also on igf-1 for 4-5 weeks.

 

[JKurz1]

I started 100mg cyp/week and 300mg EQ/week two weeks ago, plan on staying on for 16 weeks then switching the EQ to something else. I'm also on igf-1 for 4-5 weeks.

Interesting...such a low dose compared to most.......why so little test? Hows your diet/cardio? Goals in 16 weeks?

 

[Dial_tone]

It's supposed to be higher dosed HRT going 6 months at least. I'm very gyno sensitive.