5x5 Volume question

[SDHW]

I am currently running the 5x5

here is what it looks like

Monday
squat 5x5
Bench 1x5
Row 1x5
-bi's/tri's

Wednesday
Squat 5x5 20% lower than Monday
Deadlift 5x5
Push press 5x5
Pull up 5x5
-abs

Friday
Squats 1x5
Bench 5x5
Row 5x5
-abs, bi's/tri's (if I have time)

My question is, Should I be using everything at 5x5, I guess it's just a matter of volume. However I am not de-loading, my main focus is getting the numbers up, and if that starts to fail, I will de-load. I like the 1x5 sets, to me they are more of an intensity set and allow me to put on more weight than I would be able to with just the 5x5.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

i don't like the bis and tris on monday.... friday should be your all out whatever u want day (as you have there abs, bis, tris) because you have 2 days recovery there.

how many weeks in are you?

 

[SDHW]

i don't like the bis and tris on monday.... friday should be your all out whatever u want day (as you have there abs, bis, tris) because you have 2 days recovery there.

how many weeks in are you?

oh and as for the bi's and tri's, they are a very easy 3 supersets.


I’m in week7 (well the end of it), at week 4 I did deload, I did it more so to give my back and knee’s a break, they were getting pounded. it helped, I feel great now. I would like to increase my lifts by 2.5% each week. Im not too sure on the deloading part as well, some say don’t worry about it, just keep pushing the weight up, and well you stall then deload, others tell me I need to every 3-4 wks??

 

[SgtSlaughter]

ok.

7 weeks minus deload... so 3 weeks in or so back at it: yeah as long as your progressing and don't feel like a train wreck i was told a deload wasn't nessesary.

Are you hitting PR's every week?

 

[Madcow2]

oh and as for the bi's and tri's, they are a very easy 3 supersets.


I’m in week7 (well the end of it), at week 4 I did deload, I did it more so to give my back and knee’s a break, they were getting pounded. it helped, I feel great now. I would like to increase my lifts by 2.5% each week. Im not too sure on the deloading part as well, some say don’t worry about it, just keep pushing the weight up, and well you stall then deload, others tell me I need to every 3-4 wks??

I think you have two different variations confused. The 2.5% applies to the linear/intermediate program. The loading/deloading and straight sets of 5 one day and working up to a top set of 5 on another is the advanced program.

They are structured very differently. I think you should read the advanced description again in detail if that's what you think you should be using.

 

[SDHW]

ok.

7 weeks minus deload... so 3 weeks in or so back at it: yeah as long as your progressing and don't feel like a train wreck i was told a deload wasn't nessesary.

Are you hitting PR's every week?

Well here is the thing on that, I really need to keep track of my numbers, I know I am for sure progressing without a doubt, but like this week, on Monday, my squat was way up, but my bench was down??

The bigger question is, should everything be 5x5, or are the 1x5 okay?

 

[SgtSlaughter]

*passes batton to Mad Cow*

 

[Madcow2]

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm

This is pretty much the way more experienced lifters on this site have gotten into it. Changing the 1x5 to 5x5 will add more tonnage and work but if you are making quick progress without that, keep it the way it is. I don't know that most people have had to add volume except after more training time. Certainly not at first.

I would run it as is for a while, maybe use the 3x3 phase too and peak it out, that leaves you 8-9 weeks with 2 phases that can be repeated. See how that does you.

 

[SDHW]

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm

This is pretty much the way more experienced lifters on this site have gotten into it. Changing the 1x5 to 5x5 will add more tonnage and work but if you are making quick progress without that, keep it the way it is. I don't know that most people have had to add volume except after more training time. Certainly not at first.

I would run it as is for a while, maybe use the 3x3 phase too and peak it out, that leaves you 8-9 weeks with 2 phases that can be repeated. See how that does you.

I agree, I think I am mixing the two programs. I also think I dont need the extra volume. Im not sure I understand you when you say 3x3 phase, and peak it out. can you go into a little more detail.

so, is the goal to keep pushing up the weight with the advanced program, or is it to allow the deload to do that for you?

 

[SDHW]

Let me give you an example of some of the weight that I use.

Monday
Squat 5x5 405lbs same weight
Bench 1x5 365lbs <- ramp up to as much as I can
Row 1x5 245lb ramping up

Wednesday
Squat 5x5 325lb 20% less than Monday same weight
Deadlift 5x5 365lbs same weight
Push press 5x5 205-225lbs, same weight
lat pull down 5x5 230lbs same weight

Friday
Squat 1x5 435lbs ramping up
Bench 5x5 335lb same weight
Row 5x5 225 same weight

everything is done with at least 3 warm up sets.

So should I be trying to push my numbers each week??

 

[enigma4dub]

This is self explanatory in the program descriptions. The advanced program is broken down into two phases load and peak. You load with 4 weeks of 5's. Starting in week one at about 80% Deload for a week then "peak out" as madcow described with 3's for weeks 6-9, continuing to add weight

I would suggest spending more time at the geocities site. Also the original thread is really worth reading start to finish.

 

[Madcow2]

Im not sure I understand you when you say 3x3 phase, and peak it out. can you go into a little more detail.

Read the link, there are two multiweek blocks. The second block can be either a basic deload for a few weeks or you can deload just long enough to catch your breath and hammer the triples with 3 workouts a week. (I guess there are infinitely many things you can do but those are two of the plain vanilla options presented there)

so, is the goal to keep pushing up the weight with the advanced program, or is it to allow the deload to do that for you?

Well both kind of. You should be trying to set PRs in the first phase, you may or may not be able to do that. If you aren't super experienced then your odds are good but an experienced lifter loading heavily (i.e. pushing it harder than the generic setup) won't be setting PRs during loading. It's just doing all the work.

You can also set PRs during deloading (explicitly under the 3 session per week intensification plan) and this should be a sure thing as the volume reduction allows you to rebound.

But honestly, read that page. It's spelled out in excrutiating detail for the volume phase as well as both options for the second phase.

 

[SDHW]

Thanks very much for your insight and help.

so are you saying it would be wise to deload, or could I just keep pushing up the weight, until i stall, then work into some deloading....

Read the link, there are two multiweek blocks. The second block can be either a basic deload for a few weeks or you can deload just long enough to catch your breath and hammer the triples with 3 workouts a week. (I guess there are infinitely many things you can do but those are two of the plain vanilla options presented there)



Well both kind of. You should be trying to set PRs in the first phase, you may or may not be able to do that. If you aren't super experienced then your odds are good but an experienced lifter loading heavily (i.e. pushing it harder than the generic setup) won't be setting PRs during loading. It's just doing all the work.

You can also set PRs during deloading (explicitly under the 3 session per week intensification plan) and this should be a sure thing as the volume reduction allows you to rebound.

But honestly, read that page. It's spelled out in excrutiating detail for the volume phase as well as both options for the second phase.

 

[Madcow2]

Thanks very much for your insight and help.

so are you saying it would be wise to deload, or could I just keep pushing up the weight, until i stall, then work into some deloading....

The source of your confusion and what I am saying is to read the link. It is all clearly spelled out in rediculous detail. Both options include deloading, one of them will result in a big peak of low fatigue if run long enough as there's just not much work. The other will deload and then rachet back up in the triples probably leaving you quite taxed by the time you are finished requiring a ligher week maybe two depending on how you do, before beginning again.

But honestly, reading that link is your best friend. At the very least read the chart and core description (including the volume phase and then both options for the 2nd phase). After that maybe download the spreadsheet and see how it looks. THen you can ask whatever you'd like but the whole source of your questions and confusion results from not having read that very link. That should be your next stop.

 

[SDHW]

Thanks, I have read the link, and it is very helpful.

I would say most of my confusion is that some say that I can just run the program how I have it, and not deload, just focus on putting up more weight each week. until I stall, and then start to think about the deloading. This is why I asked you if I should follow the link you gave me and deload they way it is spelled out on the site?

The source of your confusion and what I am saying is to read the link. It is all clearly spelled out in rediculous detail. Both options include deloading, one of them will result in a big peak of low fatigue if run long enough as there's just not much work. The other will deload and then rachet back up in the triples probably leaving you quite taxed by the time you are finished requiring a ligher week maybe two depending on how you do, before beginning again.

But honestly, reading that link is your best friend. At the very least read the chart and core description (including the volume phase and then both options for the 2nd phase). After that maybe download the spreadsheet and see how it looks. THen you can ask whatever you'd like but the whole source of your questions and confusion results from not having read that very link. That should be your next stop.

 

[Madcow2]

Thanks, I have read the link, and it is very helpful.

I would say most of my confusion is that some say that I can just run the program how I have it, and not deload, just focus on putting up more weight each week. until I stall, and then start to think about the deloading. This is why I asked you if I should follow the link you gave me and deload they way it is spelled out on the site?

The loading period can be longer you just have to start with lighter weight and keep it reasonable i.e. peaking into two PR weeks in 5/6 vs. 3/4. I'd advise not taking the route of staying under your PRs for a long time and making tiny increases, just seeing if you can make the lifts week to week. That was the stratgey I used to test some stuff out and see how deep into overtraining I could get myself (so I can confirm that it works well - you will make the lifts if your capacity is above them but the volume will torch you and it takes a long time to recover from a deficit like that and get back on track again).

If you want to run a linear program based on a good stretch of PRs moving up 2.5% or some such - and think it's appropriate, do the intermediate program as the volume is not as significant and fatigue shouldn't get in your way (I assume your work capacity is pretty standard and you aren't superman here).

 

[SDHW]

The loading period can be longer you just have to start with lighter weight and keep it reasonable i.e. peaking into two PR weeks in 5/6 vs. 3/4. I'd advise not taking the route of staying under your PRs for a long time and making tiny increases, just seeing if you can make the lifts week to week. That was the stratgey I used to test some stuff out and see how deep into overtraining I could get myself (so I can confirm that it works well - you will make the lifts if your capacity is above them but the volume will torch you and it takes a long time to recover from a deficit like that and get back on track again).

If you want to run a linear program based on a good stretch of PRs moving up 2.5% or some such - and think it's appropriate, do the intermediate program as the volume is not as significant and fatigue shouldn't get in your way (I assume your work capacity is pretty standard and you aren't superman here).

Thanks, I guess that clears it up, I am going to re-read that link, and work in the deloading/peak phase.

I am at the end of week 7, I deloaded in week 4, any suggestion on where to go from here. I could deload next week, or I could just go to the 9 wk mark, and then deload/set new pr, and start all over with my new pr in week 3?? on a side note, I really dont feel too fatigued.

and I guess I mixed the two programs up, because I wasnt sure if I should be doing the linear program or the advanced program, someone told me not to bother with the advanced program unless I was competing and needed to peak my lifts?? so I guess thats where i got the idea.

 

[Madcow2]

Thanks, I guess that clears it up, I am going to re-read that link, and work in the deloading/peak phase.

I am at the end of week 7, I deloaded in week 4, any suggestion on where to go from here. I could deload next week, or I could just go to the 9 wk mark, and then deload/set new pr, and start all over with my new pr in week 3?? on a side note, I really dont feel too fatigued.

and I guess I mixed the two programs up, because I wasnt sure if I should be doing the linear program or the advanced program, someone told me not to bother with the advanced program unless I was competing and needed to peak my lifts?? so I guess thats where i got the idea.

That's not really right, some people are just not going to be able to make much progress trying to ramp linearly week to week under a sustainable volume. They need to work hard over a period of time greater than a week to get an increment of progress (this might be 4 weeks, this might be many 4 week blocks layered to peak and get that increment once a year). Either way the advanced program is the slower of the two lanes and there is no point in being in the slow lane unless you have to be there (and some have to - keep training, you'll get there too and that sucks because it's a lot easier to add weight to the bar every week)

I'm not sure what plan you are currently on - there are two options for the 2nd phase or maybe you already deloaded (completed the 2nd phase) and now you've restarted a volume phase? The weeks are fairly planned for exactly what you should be doing but I'm getting the feeling you are doing something different even though you said you deloaded already (which means you'd be back at week 1 so hard to tell).

I'd say finish out whatever you are doing if it's working and you are enjoying it, deload if needed and do the intermediate program. It's a much simpler setup and if you can get it to work it's faster.

 

[SDHW]

That's not really right, some people are just not going to be able to make much progress trying to ramp linearly week to week under a sustainable volume. They need to work hard over a period of time greater than a week to get an increment of progress (this might be 4 weeks, this might be many 4 week blocks layered to peak and get that increment once a year). Either way the advanced program is the slower of the two lanes and there is no point in being in the slow lane unless you have to be there (and some have to - keep training, you'll get there too and that sucks because it's a lot easier to add weight to the bar every week)

I'm not sure what plan you are currently on - there are two options for the 2nd phase or maybe you already deloaded (completed the 2nd phase) and now you've restarted a volume phase? The weeks are fairly planned for exactly what you should be doing but I'm getting the feeling you are doing something different even though you said you deloaded already (which means you'd be back at week 1 so hard to tell).

I'd say finish out whatever you are doing if it's working and you are enjoying it, deload if needed and do the intermediate program. It's a much simpler setup and if you can get it to work it's faster.

ahh I see, well in that case I guess the intermediate program might work best for now, as my lifts are going up, I havnet used a percentage each week, I have been doing whatever i feel I can do, if thats 10lbs more or if thats more or less. AND I defiantly want to be in the fast lane…lol

In either program, where do you put your PR max 5x5 for each lift, is it in week 3,4? and then how much lower do you start with, and does this change if you dont deload..ie: intermediate program. The reason I ask is that when reading it said, not to start too aggressively but also not to start too light.

Also when reading the intermediate version, is that 6 working sets on Friday? so that I do 4 sets of 5 which would be the same as the end weight on Mondays, and then I add 2.5% and do another set of 3reps, then back down the weight to the 3 set of the first 4x5, and finish out with 8 reps? Seems like a lot. and im not sure I can go up by 2.5% on my 4th set, if I do 3 warm up sets first I would have done 7 sets before I add the increase ni weight.. wouldnt I want to do this first??

Also, looking at the advanced vs the intermediate, besides the deload, it looks like the intermediate has more 1x5 (ramping weight) which would be less volume. Is this to keep volume low so that recovery can happen, therefore no need to deload, and to help insure you wont overtrain?

 

[SDHW]

bump

 

[SDHW]

how the hell did i get way down here, back to the top...lol