5x5 question, Madcow anywhere???

[criffer]

Im 3 weeks into the 5x5 program and liking it very well, have been increasing slowly on all lifts as directed, but have one question.....I have a bad back (long story) and with all the deep squatting and deadlifts, it just seems the 90 degree bent over rowws seem to kill my back, I know its best to not substitute exercises, but if you had to pick the next best back exercise what would it be to replace the 90 degree bent over rows????? Or is there an alternative way to perform that isnt so taxing on the back (ie one leg in front of other, 45 degree angle, etc)???? Thanks,

Also when rowing do you recommend pronated or supinated grip, narrow or wide grip???

 

[Madcow2]

Well, it's better to cheat at the row than sub something else in. If you can tolerate them at 45 degrees that's going to be a whole lot better than a machine. Frequently the issue with bad backs is that people get tentative in using them, you run a program like this where you are using it a lot, and you wind up fatigued. Super_Rice is running Korte's 3x3 program right now and learned all about back fatigue due to workload.

So anyway, I'd stay with some kind of rowing motion. If it can't be 90 degrees that's okay - it shouldn't be straight up though so if you can do 45 degrees you might as well do power shrugs and clean pulls from the hang and move real weight through a real range of motion rather than the typical BBer air hump manuever that passes for a row in many gyms. If not rows then T bar or dumbell and last would be a cable or straight machine. Stick with rows though since you've gone this far.

For grip...real simple - if there was any mechanical advantage to be gained in rowing power from using an underhand grip - it's likely we'd see at least a minority of rowers using it or boats developed around this stroke. My theory is that most people that use this "row" (the quotes indicate a loose term) fairly upright and since the lats are meant to pull back and not up they need to bis to help with the motion since the lats are at an improper angle relative to gravity.

It's a compound movement but the idea is to let the big muscles of the back (i.e. lats) handle the most load and everything else assist in that handling (actually every lift is like this when performed well). 90 degrees and overhand wins out consistently in EMG and in real world, you don't see anyone rowing underhand. If you are too upright you are pulling up and not back with the lats, hence any of the OL pulls are better for this purpose.


Somewhere around shoulder width or a bit wider is fine.

 

[criffer]

Thanks for the solid advice, i will stick to the bent over rows and vary the angle from set to set and see if that helps, K to you

 

[rbtrout]

One question for you - are you keeping your legs straight or bent slightly when doing bent rows? I thought that I had a bad back, but I think it's just weak from lack of use. I discovered that when doing bent rows, I keep my legs slightly bent and arch my back forward (like trying to stick out my belly). This seems to do it for me. Good luck. I'm in the first week of the 3X3 phase and loving it. I haven't put on much size (yet), but my strength has gone way up.

 

[Madcow2]

I'm in the first week of the 3X3 phase and loving it. I haven't put on much size (yet), but my strength has gone way up.

Not to beat a dead horse but if strength is rising fast, gains should follow. If you aren't putting on fat or muscle (i.e. no net weight gain), caloric excess is not present.

1) If you are piling on the fat and little muscle is coming with it - we have a program problem (and that doesn't happen when you get a lot stronger in the compound lifts).

2) If you are getting stronger in the lifts on a good program and not gaining muscle or becoming fat we have a diet problem.

Granted you might have all of this under control but I get really worried when I see people's big lifts shooting up over a lengthy period and hearing about them not getting bigger. In every case it has always been caloric intake.