5x5 DF\Maintenance History

[go2failure]

He's just stating the facts. You cannot grow without over eating. I don't think he's trying to attack you or the program so don't take offense.

Gaining weight was never my overall objective, getting stronger was. The fact that I did gain weight with a restricted diet, gained strength in all areas, and maintained a 9-10% BF puts strain on that belief. Then again, 5X5 puts strain on a lot of "beliefs."

If you fellows want to discuss theories of physiology, take it to another thread.



Edited 20 Oct 05 to Add:

It seems this was misread to mean negative expenditure. In my first post, I stated low carb and that was my restricted food. Low carb is traditionally low calorie--whether I was negative expenditure or not is hard to say.

 

[TheOak84]

yeah, ya cant get bigger with out feeding your muscles...

my one friend thinks he can change his routine and 'shock' his muscles into new growth...

but he eats like a bird... and has never broke 180 in weight... he needs to read more

 

[go2failure]

yeah, ya cant get bigger with out feeding your muscles...

my one friend thinks he can change his routine and 'shock' his muscles into new growth...

but he eats like a bird... and has never broke 180 in weight... he needs to read more

I dont need a lecture on how to grow; as a 230lbs 10% BF natty I just want to focus on strength and hardness.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Yes, go focus on more "hardness" without reducing bodyfat and increasing muscle mass.

You took this as a personal attack, it seems. Either that, or you're ridiculously devoted to the 5x5 routine as some religious fanatics are to their "Almighty". I won't take anything to another thread, because any thread is open for discussion, and all I did was state that you could not have gained any weight, no matter what, without having a caloric excess.

You can't be 100% sure unless you got a DEXA done, that you didn't gain ANY bodyfat at all, that the water weight you carried at the beginning and ending were the same, and whether or not you actually added lean body mass. The 5x5 can do a lot of things, like make you stronger, and add weight via a caloric excess. Outside of that, it's just another program. It's not magic, so don't make it out to be.

 

[go2failure]

Yes, go focus on more "hardness" without reducing bodyfat and increasing muscle mass.

You took this as a personal attack, it seems. Either that, or you're ridiculously devoted to the 5x5 routine as some religious fanatics are to their "Almighty". I won't take anything to another thread, because any thread is open for discussion, and all I did was state that you could not have gained any weight, no matter what, without having a caloric excess.

You can't be 100% sure unless you got a DEXA done, that you didn't gain ANY bodyfat at all, that the water weight you carried at the beginning and ending were the same, and whether or not you actually added lean body mass. The 5x5 can do a lot of things, like make you stronger, and add weight via a caloric excess. Outside of that, it's just another program. It's not magic, so don't make it out to be.

First you tell me that I made good gains, then you say I didnt make that good of gains, then you say I cant get stronger on a clean/restrictive diet. Secondly, I never disagreed with you that eating excess makes for more muscle. I simply posted my gains on all the lifts and showed my weight gain while eating a clean/restrictive diet. Eating clean is restrictive, but that does not always mean a negative expenditure.


Edited 20 Oct 05 to add:

I do believe 100% in the 5X5. It has worked extremely well and I believe it can work well for others

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Eating clean isn't necessarily restrictive, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I still stand by what I said, in that you made good gains. Where did I deviate from this? I believe the progression in strength was solid, and if you could continue those numbers throughout further cycles, you'd be one strong bastard.

Also, I never said you can't get stronger on a clean or restrictive diet. Where are you pulling all of this from? Please read a bit better next time. Strength can be increased through other means, aside from getting bigger, although increased LBM is the fastest way to get stronger. No where did I say it can't be done while eating at a maintenance level.

I believe in the 5x5 too, and again, you're jumping to these conclusions that I don't, just because I'm criticizing some things. Sorry to tell you, but no program is perfect. It works extremely well for many, and I don't think there's anyone who wouldn't benefit from it at some point in their training, provided their goals are limited to size and strength. Outside of that, cookie-cutter programs fall short. Sorry, bud.

 

[go2failure]

Eating clean isn't necessarily restrictive, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Please dont make me laugh this hard again. Eating clean is restrictive, otherwise you'd be eating anything.

I still stand by what I said, in that you made good gains. Where did I deviate from this? I believe the progression in strength was solid, and if you could continue those numbers throughout further cycles, you'd be one strong bastard.

In post 4, you said "you made some nice gains..."

In post 6, you said "3lbs across a nine week period is not that great..."

Also, I never said you can't get stronger on a clean or restrictive diet. Where are you pulling all of this from? Please read a bit better next time. Strength can be increased through other means, aside from getting bigger, although increased LBM is the fastest way to get stronger. No where did I say it can't be done while eating at a maintenance level.

From post 14,

"The 5x5 can do a lot of things, like make you stronger, and add weight via a caloric excess"

I believe in the 5x5 too, and again, you're jumping to these conclusions that I don't, just because I'm criticizing some things. Sorry to tell you, but no program is perfect. It works extremely well for many, and I don't think there's anyone who wouldn't benefit from it at some point in their training, provided their goals are limited to size and strength. Outside of that, cookie-cutter programs fall short. Sorry, bud.

5x5 is simply a strength program tied into a lower volume strength program. The whole point of changing from one to the other is the DF approach. DF can vary greatly, I just happen to believe in the 5X5 method.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Wow, you're a fucking moron, aren't you?

A restrictive diet is usually called such in terms of caloric intake. You RESTRICT yourself from eating too many calories. I can fucking eat lard, dextrose and whey powder all day but still restrict my calories, and that certainly isn't the most "clean" diet. Think a little, first.

In post four I said you made some nice gains. I was referring to strength, which you should have been able to deduce thus far. The fact that you can't shows a complete lack of rationality. 3 lbs. of mass gained across 9 weeks isn't impressive, and that's what I referred to in post six.

And holy shit, read the entire thing you quoted me on. The 5x5 can MAKE YOU STRONGER, and ALSO, add weight, provided you eat enough calories. The "make you stronger" and "add weight through caloric excess" are seperate points. My lord, how old are you? This is fucking ridiculous.

I don't need an explanation of the fucking routine, I've ran it before myself. Also, I don't care what you believe in, not to mention the fact you've made it clear that you're a thick-headed proponent of the 5x5 program already. Good for you.

 

[go2failure]

Wow, you're a fucking moron, aren't you?

Name calling already? It must be because you're getting your ass handed to you. Next time, don't fuck with me on my thread. And now that you've opened the door to the flame room.....

A restrictive diet is usually called such in terms of caloric intake. You RESTRICT yourself from eating too many calories. I can fucking eat lard, dextrose and whey powder all day but still restrict my calories, and that certainly isn't the most "clean" diet. Think a little, first.

That's great you impotent fuck, but there is a problem with your spider's web of fallacies--I don't make it a goal to restrict calories. I make it a goal to restrict certain types of foods.

Whether or not restricting a type of food makes a negative expenditure for the day is a totally different area of discussion. If you'd like, I can skull fuck you in that direction too or you can wait for your nuts to drop. Pick one.....

In post four I said you made some nice gains. I was referring to strength, which you should have been able to deduce thus far. The fact that you can't shows a complete lack of rationality. 3 lbs. of mass gained across 9 weeks isn't impressive, and that's what I referred to in post six.

Honestly, I'm suprised you even know what rationality means. However, I will let you believe that "gains" means "what ever the fuck you want", without regard to context, simply to give you some ray of hope that the rest of this post wont disrespect you any worse.

And holy shit, read the entire thing you quoted me on. The 5x5 can MAKE YOU STRONGER, and ALSO, add weight, provided you eat enough calories. The "make you stronger" and "add weight through caloric excess" are seperate points. My lord, how old are you? This is fucking ridiculous.

Dont even think about twisting your splooge puddle of troll ramblings into something that makes sense. (Hint: It will just make you look worse!)

You're right, it is "ridiculous" that you categorized strength and weight with excess calories in the same sentence you stupid fuck! It is also ridiculous that you have the nerve to correct my comprehension when you can't even take a collection of multiple ideas and separate them into multiple sentences. Like I could effectively know what the fuck you're talking about when you can't even put ideas into sentences correctly like a person who knows the english language! Go back to school and relearn composition or I will shred you to pieces everytime you post.

I don't need an explanation of the fucking routine, I've ran it before myself. Also, I don't care what you believe in, not to mention the fact you've made it clear that you're a thick-headed proponent of the 5x5 program already. Good for you.

That's right bitch, go back to your cave. Next time you want to troll around, dont let yourself get fucked in the ass trying to do it. If you want to mess with the big boys, get your shit straight before you post.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Could you guys take this to PMs? I'd hate to see either of you get banned.

FWIW it seems you guys are getting pretty steamed over semantics -- you both said the same things but in different ways.