2nd cycle test/deca: Feedback needed

[anmolgoel]

[FONT=&quot]Hi,

I am a newbie here and I found members around here to be quite helpful so I wanted to get some feedback for myself. I'm 5 years into training and had hit a plateau training naturally. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stats: Wt: 180 ; height 5"11 ;BF should be around 15%
Goals: Gain more muscle with least possible fat; will start cutting by the end of cycle

I did my first cycle only with test E 500mg/week split into two; followed by a PCT of clomid. Gains were pretty good. However, I did not have much info about aromatase inhibitors so I gained fat along with muscle. Also there were minor symptoms of gyno so i want to play pretty safe this time. While on the cycle I felt some intermittent pain at the back of the testes... is that normal?

Now I want to start my second cycle after 4 months from the last one. I was thinking about cypionate but its written everywhere that chemically Test E & Cyp are not much different and results dont differ much. Also I found a good article saying "Even though testicular shutdown is completely reversible once steroid use has ceased, it is a good idea to prevent it from ever happening."
I think this is completely fine to not let it stop all the way. Anybody agrees?

So based on the info I got there and other places, below is the cycle i'm planning to start in a day or two, please give me your suggestions:

Weeks 1-10:
500mg testosterone per week
400mg deca per week
1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)

Week 11:
500mg testosterone per week
1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)

Week 12:
250mg testosterone per week
1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)

Week 13:
1.25mg of finasteride per day
.25mg of Arimidex every other day
100mg of clomid every day

Week 14:
1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)
50mg of clomid every day

One more doubt I have is that people advise PCT after 2-3 weeks of the last dose of Test due to its long half life; and the doses suggested are pretty high. But since I am already taking small doses of clomid throughout, do you think it is necessary to wait after the last dose before I resume my dosages mentioned above for weeks 13&14?

Let me know if anyone needs the link for the article.

Thanks!

[/FONT]

 

[RADAR]

I won;t comment until your age

 

[anmolgoel]

I won;t comment until your age

haha.. i appreciate that.. .. i'm gonna turn 25 in a few weeks.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Given that you ran 500mg of test your first cycle I don't think you need 400mg of deca added for a 2nd cycle. You could just as easily go 500mg test again without deca or run the deca at 200mg and see how you react to it. Generally speaking, going above 500-600mg of gear a week for someone not planning on competing in anything, is taking more risks and higher side effects for minimal gains. You will grow faster on 2000mg of test a week than 500mg, but it is far from linear...you will not grow 4x faster, or even 2x faster... but a little faster. On a second cycle you probably are not going to grow much, if it all, faster going over 500mg, so that deca thrown in may be doing very little for you other than adding progins side effects, costing you money and more overall sides, without really yeilding more gains. You would be shocked at the doses a lot of older timers ran and still were huge and shreded.

I would still say 2-3 weeks with a long chain ester before PCT becuase you are still releasing it that long after you inject, which is still suppressing HTPA. Take the test enanthate with a 10.5 day halflife. That means that a 500mg shot of it... 21 days (two halflifes later)still has roughly 25% of the drug in your body yet to be released into your blood stream. That is 125mg, which means there is still an HRT amount trying to be released into your body.

 

[anmolgoel]

Thank you so much for your response!

Given that you ran 500mg of test your first cycle I don't think you need 400mg of deca added for a 2nd cycle. You could just as easily go 500mg test again without deca or run the deca at 200mg and see how you react to it. Generally speaking, going above 500-600mg of gear a week for someone not planning on competing in anything, is taking more risks and higher side effects for minimal gains. You will grow faster on 2000mg of test a week than 500mg, but it is far from linear...you will not grow 4x faster, or even 2x faster... but a little faster. On a second cycle you probably are not going to grow much, if it all, faster going over 500mg, so that deca thrown in may be doing very little for you other than adding progins side effects, costing you money and more overall sides, without really yeilding more gains. You would be shocked at the doses a lot of older timers ran and still were huge and shreded.

My idea was that since I already used 500 mg of Test earlier, I would be needing something more than that for my body to respond better... hence, deca. I totally respect your opinion, but could anyone gain out of 200 mg of deca? If you think gains would not be much on the second cycle, what do you suggest? Do you think repeating the same cycle with Test could give results again? Or you'd suggest something else like dbol.. Any possibility to gain around 20 pounds lean mass?

I would still say 2-3 weeks with a long chain ester before PCT becuase you are still releasing it that long after you inject, which is still suppressing HTPA. Take the test enanthate with a 10.5 day halflife. That means that a 500mg shot of it... 21 days (two halflifes later)still has roughly 25% of the drug in your body yet to be released into your blood stream. That is 125mg, which means there is still an HRT amount trying to be released into your body.

Bit technical for me, but I was planning on Testoviron depot 250mg/ml, guess thats the same you're talking about.. regarding the half life?

Thanks again!

 

[The Alpha...]

Just IMO... The test 500mg is enough, for longer cycles E is the easiest choice especially for a newb. Here's what I disagree with tho. 1) Deca, I would never recommend It to anyone. The theory behind it sounds great! If your looking for something to help lube the joints then it's beneficial to a degree. However with high dosages as an anabolic I think it's a waste. It's very slow, which means generally you're looking at, at least 4 week lead time to get the blood levels at a stable level. To me, that 4 wasted weeks of gear. So then you have 8 weeks left, after the last shot the levels decrease way down thru out 3 weeks. So all in all, you really are only looking at 9 maybe at the most steady weeks of Deca for a 12 week plan. Not worth it. If you want to run Deca then I strongly recommend NPP! The phenyl propionate kicks in immediately, you get the anabolic advantages thru out the whole cycle.. The only cons to that is more frequent injections as this ester is fast acting and needs to be pinned eod or every 3. I honestly run npp with every cycle I go with. It really is awesome! Test and npp are always my base!! As far as clomid, that's cool but wait towards the latter part of your cycle to run. I don't see why u want to run it from beginning to end??? Save it for the pct or start at the last 3 weeks. Unless you start to feel gnyo coming on you won't need it and I don't see gyno being an issue with only 500mg a wk. this is just IMO, from my experience and I'm sure some will agree and disagree as well. There more out there knowledgable than me I'd try askin Stevemi and Arabian they seem to be tip top on the advice!!

 

[The Alpha...]

I am a newbie here also (I don't knw how to start a topic so am writing on ur thread) just need som help. On Monday I am starting my first course of test enth 500mg week and dbol 30mg day for the first weeks, but I need som help with post cycle. I already hav tamoxifen but need help?? Do I need anything else? What about AI?? Please don't abbreviate to often as I am not sure what a lot ov these terms meen. Thanks

Dude, newb must first off start with your age and stats? Depending on that you will get your advice

 

[The Alpha...]

Thank you so much for your response!



My idea was that since I already used 500 mg of Test earlier, I would be needing something more than that for my body to respond better... hence, deca. I totally respect your opinion, but could anyone gain out of 200 mg of deca? If you think gains would not be much on the second cycle, what do you suggest? Do you think repeating the same cycle with Test could give results again? Or you'd suggest something else like dbol.. Any possibility to gain around 20 pounds lean mass?



Bit technical for me, but I was planning on Testoviron depot 250mg/ml, guess thats the same you're talking about.. regarding the half life?

Thanks again!

Basically yes, if you pin the test twice a week it's 500mg's and the same as he's referencing. When it comes to test you have 4 types.
1 suspension (meaning it carries no esters to extend its half life, it's immediate acting and gone within 24-48 hrs)
2 propionate (fastest acting ester, kicks in very fast but half life is no longer than 72 hrs give or take
3 Cypionate (this is your medium range or length ester, a lot longer life than prop, probably 2 wks +)
4 Enanthate (this is your slowest longest life ester, like he said 3+ weeks half life) meaning it lasts in your system that long at and takes 3+ weeks for it to run its course and run out). Esters are what added to the oils to determine the longevity and speed in which it kicks in.

 

[The Alpha...]

Basically yes, if you pin the test twice a week it's 500mg's and the same as he's referencing. When it comes to test you have 4 types.
1 suspension (meaning it carries no esters to extend its half life, it's immediate acting and gone within 24-48 hrs)
2 propionate (fastest acting ester, kicks in very fast but half life is no longer than 72 hrs give or take
3 Cypionate (this is your medium range or length ester, a lot longer life than prop, probably 2 wks +)
4 Enanthate (this is your slowest longest life ester, like he said 3+ weeks half life) meaning it lasts in your system that long at and takes 3+ weeks for it to run its course and run out). Esters are what added to the oils to determine the longevity and speed in which it kicks in.

I may be off a little with the half life's of the cyp and E... I keep all my cycles to fast acting so I don't ever use them, just prop

 

[Billsonurmum]

Sorry, I am 22 years old. 83 kg been training natural for 2 years. Just need advice for pct and AI, would aromasin be suitable for AI???

 

[joeblow12345]

I Guess im the only one who noticed, why would you take clomid through out the cycle? Clomid is used during pct not on cycle. Also 400 mg deca is too much for 500 mg test. I would only do 300 mg deca. If you were running 600 mg test than 400 deca would be ok. Though lower doses are better to gauge your tolerance. I would run the adex at .5 every 3 rd day. Also you are going to need to have a progesterone antagonist on hand in case you start having issues from deca. I like caber but bromo and prami is also effective. There is also no need to taper down test at the end. Just run 500 all the way. How did your first cycle go as far as gains?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[joeblow12345]

Sorry, I am 22 years old. 83 kg been training natural for 2 years. Just need advice for pct and AI, would aromasin be suitable for AI???

Aromasin is a good ai. You are young your natural test should be sufficient. I would advise holding off on juice for a couple years.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[Billsonurmum]

I knw I should wait few years but my gains have plateaued, I hav treid different diets and training program's but still struggling to gain, I am just worried about how long it will take for my natural test to kick back and what pct I should use to help it ??? And will my nuts go back to there normal size??

 

[The Alpha...]

I Guess im the only one who noticed, why would you take clomid through out the cycle? Clomid is used during pct not on cycle. Also 400 mg deca is too much for 500 mg test. I would only do 300 mg deca. If you were running 600 mg test than 400 deca would be ok. Though lower doses are better to gauge your tolerance. I would run the adex at .5 every 3 rd day. Also you are going to need to have a progesterone antagonist on hand in case you start having issues from deca. I like caber but bromo and prami is also effective. There is also no need to taper down test at the end. Just run 500 all the way. How did your first cycle go as far as gains?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

No sir, you're not the only one!! I questioned it first!!! Beat ya!!! Wondered the same thing? Not smart at all...

 

[The Alpha...]

I knw I should wait few years but my gains have plateaued, I hav treid different diets and training program's but still struggling to gain, I am just worried about how long it will take for my natural test to kick back and what pct I should use to help it ??? And will my nuts go back to there normal size??

22? I wouldn't advise it bro, your levels should be high already. If you have plateaued I can guarantee you it's bc your diet is not right. Fix that, eat like a mofo but keep it clean... You will notice changes, but be patient it don't happen overnight... Not the advice you're looking for I'm sure but its the best....

If you disregard and run the test anyways (which I'm pretty sure you wil do) the pct I would recommend is hcg 500-1000 iu's and hcgenerate is good. Clomid and or adex is good for AI

 

[Billsonurmum]

Hcg? Will u please tell me when and how often I should use it in cycle ? Aromasin for Ai? What about nolvadex? wil my natural test kick back to its normal level? If so how long will it take? (really paranoid coz don't want to lose sex drive)

 

[The Alpha...]

Hcg? Will u please tell me when and how often I should use it in cycle ? Aromasin for Ai? What about nolvadex? wil my natural test kick back to its normal level? If so how long will it take? (really paranoid coz don't want to lose sex drive)

Again, if u haven't researched it all enough and know about it, don't do it. With the proper pct your natural test will be back to normal within a few weeks after your test cycle runs out. The hcg will be needed about 500-1000 iu's midway or when you notice your ball sack shrink up. Then run it for about 2 weeks, the AI is only really needed at the end unless u have gyno symptoms. Aromasin, nolva and clomid will all work as AI. It's a personal preference as to which one to use you will get people on here that recommend different ones..

 

[Billsonurmum]

Have been researching for months lol lots of confusing info out there, when u say run hcg for 2 weeks do u mean 1 500u shot a day, for 2 weeks? And will my nuts go back to normal then? Really appreciate the advice, few ov my freinds hav jumped into it with out any research at all! Idiots! 1 ov them has been off gear for 3 months and still has small nuts, I'm just trying to avoid this. Again thank you for the advice it's invaluable to me

 

[RADAR]

Make another thread and Quit hijacking this one....improper manners!Besides ,Its polite!

 

[Billsonurmum]

Sorry m8 how do I make another thread?

 

[Billsonurmum]

The alpha, can I hav ur e-mail adress?

 

[RADAR]

Sorry m8 how do I make another thread?

Top left ,it says new thread

 

[RADAR]

[FONT=&quot]Hi,

I am a newbie here and I found members around here to be quite helpful so I wanted to get some feedback for myself. I'm 5 years into training and had hit a plateau training naturally. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stats: Wt: 180 ; height 5"11 ;BF should be around 15%
Goals: Gain more muscle with least possible fat; will start cutting by the end of cycle

I did my first cycle only with test E 500mg/week split into two; followed by a PCT of clomid. Gains were pretty good. However, I did not have much info about aromatase inhibitors so I gained fat along with muscle. Also there were minor symptoms of gyno so i want to play pretty safe this time. While on the cycle I felt some intermittent pain at the back of the testes... is that normal?

Now I want to start my second cycle after 4 months from the last one. I was thinking about cypionate but its written everywhere that chemically Test E & Cyp are not much different and results dont differ much. Also I found a good article saying "Even though testicular shutdown is completely reversible once steroid use has ceased, it is a good idea to prevent it from ever happening."
I think this is completely fine to not let it stop all the way. Anybody agrees?

So based on the info I got there and other places, below is the cycle i'm planning to start in a day or two, please give me your suggestions:

Weeks 1-10:
500mg testosterone per week
400mg deca per week
1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)

Week 11:
500mg testosterone per week
1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)

Week 12:
250mg testosterone per week
1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)

Week 13:
1.25mg of finasteride per day
.25mg of Arimidex every other day
100mg of clomid every day

Week 14:
1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)
50mg of clomid every day

One more doubt I have is that people advise PCT after 2-3 weeks of the last dose of Test due to its long half life; and the doses suggested are pretty high. But since I am already taking small doses of clomid throughout, do you think it is necessary to wait after the last dose before I resume my dosages mentioned above for weeks 13&14?

Let me know if anyone needs the link for the article.

Thanks!

[/FONT]

I see you're reasoning for using clomid ,however you would be better off starting hCGenerate on week 4 to the end, if you have any left over incorporate into your PCT along with Forma Stanazol Thru cycle & PCT.
also add Post cycle & unleashed.

 

[The Alpha...]

The alpha, can I hav ur e-mail adress?

U can PM here, we'll go from there. If u don't know how to do that then click on my avi or pic or name to look at me profile... There's a tab that asks if U would like to PM me... Do that

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Thank you so much for your response!



My idea was that since I already used 500 mg of Test earlier, I would be needing something more than that for my body to respond better... hence, deca. I totally respect your opinion, but could anyone gain out of 200 mg of deca? If you think gains would not be much on the second cycle, what do you suggest? Do you think repeating the same cycle with Test could give results again? Or you'd suggest something else like dbol.. Any possibility to gain around 20 pounds lean mass?

You will never gain 20 lbs of lean mass again on a cycle after the first one, no matter how much gear you use really. You will get diminished returns on every cycle becuase the body is more resistance to gaining muscle the larger you get.

As to the 200mg of deca yes people can gain on 200mg of deca, but you need to look at the big picture... it isn't 200mg of deca it is 200mg of deca + 500mg of test. That is like someone saying "100mg is worthless you will not gain anything" who did something silly like 100mg of test/deca/eq/primo/tren/masteron each per week who is on 600mg of total gear.

Actually I think for a second cycle if you go over 500-600mg of total gear anything extra you gain is most likely going to be water weight honestly.

Anyone who is currently maintaining their size natural can gain quite well on 500mg of test alone no matter how large they are or how many cycles they have done. TRT is usually 100mg of test a week to restore men to normal function who have low or no testosterone. One amp of pharma grade test (250 mg) usually puts people up to 1000-1200 ng/Dl which is on the high end for a healthy active 16 year old teen (in short it is higher than anyone 25+ can have without drugs). 500mg a week will put you to double the level of a very horny 16 year old. If your body is able to hold onto its size (but isn't gaining any longer) with your current natural hormone levels... 500mg a week will at least triple the testosterone levels in your blood stream. More than enough to saturate most people's androgen receptors. You will make rapid gains, and spiking it higher than this is very unlikely to produce much if any more gains. There are exceptions but given that you do not have 20" arms, a 500 lbs bench and several years of heavy steroid use under your belt, I doubt you have upregulated your AR count very much.

 

[ceo]

half life of test E is only around 4-5 days. Half life of Test C is around 8 days.

I got tons of blood work to prove it.

 

[anmolgoel]

Just IMO... The test 500mg is enough, for longer cycles E is the easiest choice especially for a newb. Here's what I disagree with tho. 1) Deca, I would never recommend It to anyone. The theory behind it sounds great! If your looking for something to help lube the joints then it's beneficial to a degree. However with high dosages as an anabolic I think it's a waste. It's very slow, which means generally you're looking at, at least 4 week lead time to get the blood levels at a stable level. To me, that 4 wasted weeks of gear. So then you have 8 weeks left, after the last shot the levels decrease way down thru out 3 weeks. So all in all, you really are only looking at 9 maybe at the most steady weeks of Deca for a 12 week plan. Not worth it. If you want to run Deca then I strongly recommend NPP! The phenyl propionate kicks in immediately, you get the anabolic advantages thru out the whole cycle.. The only cons to that is more frequent injections as this ester is fast acting and needs to be pinned eod or every 3. I honestly run npp with every cycle I go with. It really is awesome! Test and npp are always my base!! As far as clomid, that's cool but wait towards the latter part of your cycle to run. I don't see why u want to run it from beginning to end??? Save it for the pct or start at the last 3 weeks. Unless you start to feel gnyo coming on you won't need it and I don't see gyno being an issue with only 500mg a wk. this is just IMO, from my experience and I'm sure some will agree and disagree as well. There more out there knowledgable than me I'd try askin Stevemi and Arabian they seem to be tip top on the advice!!

Thanks so much man.. I'm thinking to skip the deca now.. I got my hands on Cyp made in thailand.. but the potency is quite low (100mg/ml) and its a 2ml vial.. i started with it yesterday so I guess I'd have to either go with 400mg or 600mg per week. What do you suggest?
NPP sounds nice, gonna research on it.. but searching for it in the mkt would take time so is it okay if I start it 2-3 weeks in to the cycle? Could you also lay out the NPP dosages in the cycle based on my cyp intake? Thanks a tonne!

 

[anmolgoel]

I Guess im the only one who noticed, why would you take clomid through out the cycle? Clomid is used during pct not on cycle. Also 400 mg deca is too much for 500 mg test. I would only do 300 mg deca. If you were running 600 mg test than 400 deca would be ok. Though lower doses are better to gauge your tolerance. I would run the adex at .5 every 3 rd day. Also you are going to need to have a progesterone antagonist on hand in case you start having issues from deca. I like caber but bromo and prami is also effective. There is also no need to taper down test at the end. Just run 500 all the way. How did your first cycle go as far as gains?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

lol bro.. alpha said it!
there's a minor diff between the adex dose you said and what I said, but i'll keep that in mind.. the first cycle went pretty well.. gained like 20 pounds and was able to hold 15
After what alpha said, I'm thinking of going with NPP.. anything to combat the sides from THAT?
Thanks a lot!

 

[anmolgoel]

You will never gain 20 lbs of lean mass again on a cycle after the first one, no matter how much gear you use really. You will get diminished returns on every cycle becuase the body is more resistance to gaining muscle the larger you get.

As to the 200mg of deca yes people can gain on 200mg of deca, but you need to look at the big picture... it isn't 200mg of deca it is 200mg of deca + 500mg of test. That is like someone saying "100mg is worthless you will not gain anything" who did something silly like 100mg of test/deca/eq/primo/tren/masteron each per week who is on 600mg of total gear.

Actually I think for a second cycle if you go over 500-600mg of total gear anything extra you gain is most likely going to be water weight honestly.

Anyone who is currently maintaining their size natural can gain quite well on 500mg of test alone no matter how large they are or how many cycles they have done. TRT is usually 100mg of test a week to restore men to normal function who have low or no testosterone. One amp of pharma grade test (250 mg) usually puts people up to 1000-1200 ng/Dl which is on the high end for a healthy active 16 year old teen (in short it is higher than anyone 25+ can have without drugs). 500mg a week will put you to double the level of a very horny 16 year old. If your body is able to hold onto its size (but isn't gaining any longer) with your current natural hormone levels... 500mg a week will at least triple the testosterone levels in your blood stream. More than enough to saturate most people's androgen receptors. You will make rapid gains, and spiking it higher than this is very unlikely to produce much if any more gains. There are exceptions but given that you do not have 20" arms, a 500 lbs bench and several years of heavy steroid use under your belt, I doubt you have upregulated your AR count very much.

Got what you're saying.. thanks for showing a clear picture! Some things I would want to have your opinion on:

- Planning to use NPP instead of Deca. I've started with cyp, had only one shot currently of 2ml (100 mg/ml).. Is it okay to combine a long ester with a short one?

- Is it okay if i start NPP a week or two later than test?

- Since my cyp is of low potency (a 2ml vial has 200 mg), I would either have to go with 400mg/week or 600mg/week. I know you said more than 600 makes no sense, but still wanna know what would be the dosages of both you would suggest for me in combination. Also how long to run NPP.

- What all tabs to use during the cycle.

- Is it okay to inject quads since I dont know whether any more than 2ml per glute is okay. If yes, what should be the sites?

Thanks again!

 

[anmolgoel]

Waiting.. BUMP!

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Got what you're saying.. thanks for showing a clear picture! Some things I would want to have your opinion on:

- Planning to use NPP instead of Deca. I've started with cyp, had only one shot currently of 2ml (100 mg/ml).. Is it okay to combine a long ester with a short one?

- Is it okay if i start NPP a week or two later than test?

- Since my cyp is of low potency (a 2ml vial has 200 mg), I would either have to go with 400mg/week or 600mg/week. I know you said more than 600 makes no sense, but still wanna know what would be the dosages of both you would suggest for me in combination. Also how long to run NPP.

- What all tabs to use during the cycle.

- Is it okay to inject quads since I dont know whether any more than 2ml per glute is okay. If yes, what should be the sites?

Thanks again!

-I have never used NPP nor do I know anyone offline with experience using it, thus you can read online all the same things I can. From what I have read though I fail to see what the magic is vs deca.

-I would consider something like 400mg test cyp/200mg of deca a week.

-Quads + glutes, rotating sites around, is perfectly acceptable. I shot 2 cc of test into my left quad this week myself. Smaller muscles are useful for site growth (debated but going on my own experiences here), but are shown in studies to release less of any given steriod into the bloodstream, so less optimal for overall gains.

 

[anmolgoel]

-I have never used NPP nor do I know anyone offline with experience using it, thus you can read online all the same things I can. From what I have read though I fail to see what the magic is vs deca.

-I would consider something like 400mg test cyp/200mg of deca a week.

-Quads + glutes, rotating sites around, is perfectly acceptable. I shot 2 cc of test into my left quad this week myself. Smaller muscles are useful for site growth (debated but going on my own experiences here), but are shown in studies to release less of any given steriod into the bloodstream, so less optimal for overall gains.

Thanks. Since you've made yourself repeatedly clear, I wont go over 600 mg of total gear. will run test at 400mg.

But even if you havent run NPP earlier, just wanted to know your views on combining it with a long estered test.. in case you've run something similar earlier

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Thanks. Since you've made yourself repeatedly clear, I wont go over 600 mg of total gear. will run test at 400mg.

But even if you havent run NPP earlier, just wanted to know your views on combining it with a long estered test.. in case you've run something similar earlier

For me there is some confusion as to what it is actually. Steroids.com says it is a combination of two different drugs rather than just being another nandrolone ester in which case I really have little to offer, other than it seems to be a reasonable drug if it can be obtained cheaply. I think guys who are not prepping for a show or photoshoot get too exotic sometimes, instead of sticking with the basics in their stack (and their routines for that matter... like 50+% of their sets being done on something other than an Olympic bar when they are not preping for an event).