1st cycle advice

[malhavoc]

Here are my stats, I'm 23 (24 in a couple of months), have been training for 3.5 years, and have recently dieted down to about 188 (roughly 10% BF) at 6'2. I've decided to do my first cycle.

Right now I'm only planning on doing this one cycle in the foreseeable future, so I want to make sure I do it right, and keep as much as possible. With that in mind I know that clomid is essential without question, and Novladex is good to have on hand.

I plan to do sust. with either dbol, winny, or deca. I like the convenience of the dbol tabs, but since a lot of the gains from it will be water, how much of the weight from the dbol can I expect
to keep post cycle? I'm not really keen on the ED or EOD day winny injections? Finally the deca, would that be a good choice for the second drug?

One of the sample cycles I've read about for beginners is :

1: sust 250, dbol 20
2: sust 250, dbol 25
3: sust 500, dbol 30
4: sust 500, dbol 35
5: sust 500, dbol 35
6: sust 500, dbol 30
7: sust 250, dbol 20
8: sust 250, dbol 15

How does that seem? Or should not waste my time tapering up and just taper down?

I've also read quite a bit of contradictory info, some people advocate clomid through the entire cycle, while others say start in weeks 7 and 8, and continue for 3 weeks post cycle (100/50/50). What about HCG should I forget about it, or should it be considered a staple part of the cycle like clomid?

Finally, my goals from this cycle are definetly to gain strength, but I'm really interested in getting a good amount of size (keeping 15-20 post cycle). Thanks for any help you gurus can provide.
If you need anymore info from me, fire away.

 

[METHYL MIKE]

too androgenic-try winny and primo, maybe a little test. you dont need much your first time, trust me

 

[Freak Show]

Very intelligent first post.

From what I understand I would wait 3 weeks after last shot of sus or deca to do the clomid.

I've heard alot of dbol's gains will be temporary.

You could try deca and sust. Alot of guys advocate some form of test to go with deca to avoid the limp dick thing.

I wouldn't bother tapering the sust. You're not using a whole lot.

If you're looking to "keep" alot post cycle, try to add things like primo, anavar, eq, or winny to the mix.

 

[ultragainz]

i think its fine dont up and then go low with the d-bol take strat high then go low not too low.....about 25-35mgs is good...

 

[pgerardone]

I don't want to sound like a know it all but I have been bodybuilding competitively since 1991 and placed in the top three in two national level npc shows so I have tried every imaginable way to combine and use steroids. Anyway, a lot of the things advocated here are not the most effective way to utilize gear and this example is what I mean. When cycling you should start with your highest dose for the first four weeks and taper down from there. So if you want to use 500 mgs of sust start with that amount for the first 4-5 weeks and drop to 250 the last few. Same with the d's and deca if you decide to use it. As for this "I have the novs on hand" stuff that is just plain stupid. You have never used anything before and you are going to do test and d-bols without knowing how your body will react and you are going to roll the dice and not take an ant-estrogen from the start. WHY? If you start getting gyno it is too late. Rarely will novs reverse the effects of estrogen once started. Arimidex might but if you have arimidex you should start that from the beginning also. Think about this, if you get gyno it may never go away and you would have to have surgery. Before you have the surgery you will be embarrassed to take your shirt off anywhere because you have tits so there goes your plan of improving your body with AS. I just don't want to see some of you guys make the same mistakes I did in the beginning.

 

[malhavoc]

Thanks for the replies.

My intention wasn't to have the Nov. on hand and use just in case. I was wondering whether I should use it for sure. Now I have my answer.

So is it a good idea to use the anti-est. from the beginning, threw to post cycle, or to startup towards the end (last 2-3 weeks) threw post cycle?

 

[pgerardone]

You should use the anti-estrogen from day one of your cycle until about three weeks after. Arimidex is a great anti-estrogen but novs are good also. Take .25mgs a day of arim or 10mg a day of novs and you will be protected from gyno. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[malhavoc]

What about clomid? Start from day 1, or start at week 7 continued to 3 post cycle?

 

[pgerardone]

It depends on how long your cycle is. If you are going like 7-8 weeks use the clomid for three weeks starting when everything is out of your system. If you are planning to stay on for a while you may want to use it for two weeks in the middle. I would think hcg may be better to do in the middle. 3000 iu's of hcg for two weeks in the middle of like a 16 week cycle would be effective.

 

[serge]

i would run sust at 500mg through out the cycle and deca at 200-400mg, no need to pyramid, if you can get fast acting test and winny for your last 3 weeks of the cycle, keep the total mg dose the same through out the cycle. the reason for fast acting drugs at the end of the cycle is that they will get out of your system very fast allowing you to start your recovery process (clomids @100mg first week and 50mg 2nd)

 

[malhavoc]

Thanks to the input from you guys, this is what I've decided on (one variable left though). It will be 8 weeks, with 500 mg sust each week (I'm assuming that's one injection monday and on thursday?). I'm also leaning towards adding winny to the mix, because I can drink it and get the same results as an injection, that would be 50 mg's ED.

I'll also add 50 mg of clomid EOD, and bump it up after the cycle, and I've been advised to do nov. ED.

Any advice on that?

 

[MUSTANG_18]

Sounds like a pretty good plan. There is no need to use Clomid through out your cycle, save it for after it is finished. I would only use the Nolva if you start to feel or see signs of gyno coming on. Winny would be a good addition to your cycle as well, if you drink 50mg/day take 25mg/morning and 25mg/night. The Sust shots split up on Monday and Thursday is fine. Good Luck!

M18

 

[malhavoc]

Would doing the clomid EOD hurt the cycle or my gains in any way?

 

[lunatic calm]

Would doing the clomid EOD hurt the cycle or my gains in any way?

I'm assuming you mean eod DURING the cycle. If that's the case, you're only gonna hurt your wallet. Do like the guys say and wait till everything is out of your system before you start clomid.