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13 Year Old Floridian Faces JUDGMENT Day..

RyanH

RyanH

New member
News just broke that:

The 13 year old African American child in Florida, accused of killing his teacher, was just given 28 years by the judge. He also received 2 years of in-house probation, and received 5 years of community service.

The prosecution wanted 40 years to life, they didn't get it. The Defense argued he should get the minimum 25, he only got 28.

Bottom line: Defense won.
 
Come on Salami.....This kid can be reformed, and go on to lead a worthy, productive life......
 
who gives a shit if he can be reformed or not. he is a murderer and should just be gotten rid of. if you want to work on reforming people then do it before they kill somebody.
 
RyanH said:
News just broke that:

The 13 year old African American child in Florida, accused of killing his teacher, was just given 28 years by the judge. He also received 2 years of in-house probation, and received 5 years of community service.

The prosecution wanted 40 years to life, they didn't get it. The Defense argued he should get the minimum 25, he only got 28.

Bottom line: Defense won.
Click to expand...


Why does his race matter?
 
His race matters from the standpoint that a judge and jury is likely to be more biased against the Defendant.
 
RyanH said:
His race matters from the standpoint that a judge and jury is likely to be more biased against the Defendant.
Click to expand...


whatever

HYPOCRITE
 
But, this isn't intended to be a discussion on race.....just a thread on the punishment that this young child received.
 
After 28 years in jail he will be an even worse criminal and probably kill a few other people. Our system isn't about reform, it's about punishment. I wish it were about reform, but it isn't.
 
RyanH said:
But, this isn't intended to be a discussion on race.....just a thread on the punishment that this young child received.
Click to expand...

I know that. The problem is you do the exact same on other threads where people mention race. Your hypocricy is pathetic.
 
its a similar case to the bulger murderers, who spent a few years in a junior detention centre, then got released with new lives. 28 years isnt enough IMHO, he murdered a teacher, he should get life.
 
The African-American reference was included so that one may consider race in assessing whether the child received the appropriate punishment-----Since juries are typically biased against African-Americans. If it had been a caucasion child, race would not have been relevant since very likely the jury and judge would not have been biased.

Here, it looks like race was likely not a controlling factor since the punishment, although still more than I would have given, is reasonable in light of the alternative punishment.
 
WODIN said:
After 28 years in jail he will be an even worse criminal and probably kill a few other people. Our system isn't about reform, it's about punishment. I wish it were about reform, but it isn't.
Click to expand...

And Wodin, that is the downfall of our penal system.

We look backwards, instead of forwards.
 
why even bother keeping him alive? i dont see why people with life sentences arent just killed. this kid should just be ended and thats it. the system shouldnt be about reform it should be about punishment.
 
Sure Salami--Thus far drug offenses have been about punishment, and where has it gotten us?

It's gotten us to overcrowed prisons with people who pose no real threat or danger to society.
 
The_RAIDER said:
The Bias depends on the Racial makeup of the jury, No?
Click to expand...

The judge in this case was white, thus race was relevant. One must ask, "Did the white judge have any biases" in handing down the sentence that he didn't.

Admirably, it looks as though he did not.
 
then make more prisons or execute more prisoners. i dont care. we should try to waste as little tax payer money on them as possible. i would rather them die then be reformed. fuck them.
 
Salami---you are dealing w/ a 13 year old kid here. He was far from the age of maturity.

That would be a great precedent: execute teenagers.
 
he was mature enough to get a gun and kill somebody. it wasnt any kind of accident. so he should be executed. if it was someone in your family you would want the little shit dead.
 
Ryan, I can understand a bit of what you are saying him being a kid and all, but I didnt even look at the fact of his color.

That being said, I have a question for you Ryan.

If this teacher that this killed was your mother or sister, would you feel the same or would you want the little fucker dead too?

Just some food for thought, everybody in the justice system seems to always forget about one very important group of people, the victims family.
 
Jimsbbc said:
It should be eye for an eye. He should get a bullet in the head.
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Exactly. He killed a teacher. It is plain as day on the survailence video. Then the kid goes on to say that he is sorry to the family of the victim and that he never intended to do it. Bullshit! He had every intention of doing it.
 
dude

I love it when stupid fucks stick up for the cancer of society like this kid. One day, someone you know or love is going to be hurt by someone just like this kid, and when that day comes you tell me if the little fuck deserves a second chance. The fuckin teacher doesnt get a second chance, I hope the kid gets buttfucked for the next 28 years, and I hope his family all dies a slow and painful death. I would honestly laugh if him and his entire family died.
 
Milhouse said:
.

If this teacher that this killed was your mother or sister, would you feel the same or would you want the little fucker dead too?

Just some food for thought, everybody in the justice system seems to always forget about one very important group of people, the victims family.
Click to expand...

Revenge accomplishes nothing...it wouldn't bring my mother or sister back. When they are gone, they are gone. Killing the child might give me personal satisfaction, but then so does ecstasy---that doesn't mean I should do it.

Many death penalty advocates allow their emotions to get in the way of sound public policy decisions. It would set a very bad policy to have the United States or Florida killing teenagers.

The similarities to China would be far too great. I don't think any of us want that.
 
Re: dude

karson said:
I love it when stupid fucks stick up for the cancer of society like this kid. .
Click to expand...

CONGRATULATIONS....you are the FIRST PERSON TO RESORT TO NAME CALLING IN THIS THREAD...until this point we were having a reasonable discussion...
 
TheSalami said:
the people want murderers executed. why should age make a difference.
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Salami---Come on, do you really believe that minors should be held just as accountable for their crimes as adults.......Many minors don't have the adequate mental state to hold them accountable as you would adults....

Do you think a 10 year old should receive the same punishment as a 30 year old?
 
as long as it was an intentional act then age means nothing. there is still a dead victim and so there needs to be a dead criminal.
 
He's Not Getting Out

He'll die of AIDS in there. He'll get his just desserts in the end. The RearEnd.
 
Quote from the Chicago Tribune:
During the hearing, Palm Beach County sheriff's deputies testified that out of sight of the jury during the trial, Brazill was not the silent and solemn young man he appeared to be in court. They testified that, in his holding cell between court appearances, he joked about shooting jurors and was generally unruly.

Sure this little thug can be reformed :mad:
 
RyanH,

If the murderer were white, would you desire "reform" over punishment?

What if the murderer were white and the TEACHER were black? Would this fall under your beloved "hate crime" category, and thus fetch the perpetrator a more "punishing" than "reforming" sentence?

Race means nothing to me in a case like this. I heard of this case months ago on the news.

"So-and-so allegedly shot his teacher in the face."

me: "I hope they put him away for life or cook him."

Then they show the boy's picture - he's black. So what? I hope they put him away for life or cook him anyway.

You must look at it objectively. Don't look at it as "black boy killed white teacher." Look at it as "human killed human."

-Warik
 
Leave race out of this discussion. It is not about race. It is about the crime and the punishment. Race is not a factor. The punishment should be the same for anyone who would do such a senseless act of violence. This kid is a waste of a human life. Let him die the way he killed that teacher. Let him taste his own violence!!!!!
 
RyanH said:
The African-American reference was included so that one may consider race in assessing whether the child received the appropriate punishment-----Since juries are typically biased against African-Americans. If it had been a caucasion child, race would not have been relevant since very likely the jury and judge would not have been biased.

Here, it looks like race was likely not a controlling factor since the punishment, although still more than I would have given, is reasonable in light of the alternative punishment.
Click to expand...

You are one of those people who as a bleeding heart until something bad is done to you aren't you? If not, please correct me. Not that anyone is likely to admit it.
We have by far the most phucked up society on this Earth when it comes to crime. The law should be plain and simple, "If you do something on purpose that breaks the law, you should be punished." PLain and simple.
Everyone is always crying about, "Oh but he was so young or he didn't know any better." I am calling BS! This kid knew what he was doing enough to get a gun. He knew what he was doing enough to bring it to school and he knew it enoughto shoot his teacher! He is obviously a menace to our society and should be treated accordingly. WHITE OR BLACK. If you can't get along without hurting or killing other people, you shouldn't be allowed to be around other people.
Yes, people make mistakes but, aiming any weapon at someone and killing them is NO MISTAKE! The kid made his decision and it was a poor one. Let him be an example to all of the other would be 13-year-old killers of the world. We will not give you a second chance. God knows he wouldn't be given one in any other country...unless he was a soldier for Sadaam and then he would be given a medal.
 
Ryan didn't you want revenge when your friend got mugged? Sounds like you're all about reforming people unless they hurt you or someone you are close to.


I think Warik said it before "Every liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet."
 
I don't know what the right answer is, but how productive does anyone think this kid will be after spending all this time is the slammer? Unfortunately, he will probably kill again when released b/c he will know no other way after being raised by the prison system. Killling him also pretty much sucks, too. I am certainly not against capital punishment (but let's make sure we are absolutely certain they commited the crime - DNA test, etc..), but the guy is pretty young.. Not to mention a very productive member of society was taken. The whole thing really sucks, there's not an easy answer... I really dislike how the race card gets thrown into everything these days...
 
Interestingly they said only yesterday did he actually apologize for the shooting for the first time. And also the victim was supposed to have been the kid's favorite teacher. The family of the teacher indicated that they were still confused by his lack of remorse up until now.

What the hell is going through kids' minds these days that would even result in this???
 
He is obviously a thug and a criminal low life. Productive to society YEA RIGHT! He also told authorities that he sold some crack. Is that productive. He will be released when he's 40. I bet the first thing he does is rob someone. :mad:

He should get LIFE
 
Ryan, you mention making this child a productive member of society, what about the victim's family. What do we do to help them deal with their loss. The answer: nothing after all the press leaves and moves on to the next big story this family has to deal with the loss of a father, a husband, and a son. This mans wife has to figure out how to raise her family by herself. You are right it is a loss, but is is a bigger one for the victim.
 
28 years? What a brilliant legal system we have. This kid is gonna go through puberty getting ass rammed and cohorting with jailed up thugs. He'll be turned loose when he is 41 and will surely berehabilitated right?

Then we will have a really pissed off 41 year old psychopath in our society.

I don't have a good solution, but this one is definately not the right answer.
 
Ol' sparky will reform the little bastard. Maybe we should put an electric chair in every school. Those junior FUBUs would behave then.
 
RyanH said:
African American child
Click to expand...

RyanH said:
If it had been a caucasion child, race would not have been relevant since very likely the jury and judge would not have been biased.
Click to expand...

RyanH said:
The judge in this case was white, thus race was relevant.
Click to expand...

Hypothically speaking, what if the judge/jury was black, or asian... or green and blue, whould THEN race be relevant?

Oh, BTW RyanH..... I think you should delete this post because someone brought up RACE in it....... I wonder who THAT was:confused:
 
28 years.......I'm not even that old.....this is not a light sentence......but it doesn't seem just either.
 
I must be confusing this case with another. In the one I am thinking of the killer was a black "american" I guess in this case the defendant is from Africa?:confused:

This kid was far from a child, he had hair on his nuts for christ's sake!

If you don't want to be discriminated against in your murder trial...don't kill anyone.
 
MP5,

You're being kind of a jerk in your post above. 28 years is WAY too much. He should have been given 7 years MAX!
 
I guess the teacher's life was only worth 7 years? What if it was your mother? I would smoke the mother fucker if he shot someone I knew. he would not have to worry about prison cause he would never make it to court.
 
Nathaniel Brazill was 13 years old when he killed his teacher, Mr. Grumon. He was just 1 year out of elementary school.

I'm not saying that Mr. Grumon's life was worth only 7 years. I'm saying that we have to treat our children differently than we do our adults. Why this boy was tried as an adult is beyond me.

Nathaniel should be punished but he should not have his entire life taken away from him because of a senseless act he committed in a passionate moment when he was a 13 year old kid.
 
Great logic, May. I guess it's OK to kill people if you are only 13. Wow, you've just given me a great business idea! I'll go impgrenate about 50 women, and in 13 years, I'll sell all my kids as hitmen (or rather, hitboys). $50k a hit x 50 kids = $2.5mil. A few good investments here and there and I'll be set for life. 7 years later, we'll all be one big happy family!

A black child did not kill a white teacher.

A human being killed another human being.

Life without parole or death - anything else is unjust.

-Warik
 
May1010 said:
Nathaniel should be punished but he should not have his entire life taken away from him because of a senseless act he committed in a passionate moment when he was a 13 year old kid.
Click to expand...

Maybe by your definition 13 years old is still a little kid. Not me. By 13, people know what's right and wrong, and should be able to control their actions.

Who cares if he could be a productive member of society. Unless he can bring back the dead, take him out back and hang him.
 
Ryan listen here....That little son of a bitch took the life of a man, someones husband, someones father. Those people will never get to say I love you again. That kid deserves to die. He doesn't deserve the chance to live.

How can you say he can be reformed???If he serves the 28 years he'll be what 42, 43 when he gets out...Who in the hell is going to hire him for more then just mowing yards or flipping burgers???Hell I wouldn't even hire him to do that.

By the time he gets out of prison if he lives to see that day He's going to have shit for skills, shit for education and a conviction on his record for killing someone.
 
May1010 said:
You know what Warik? You're a fucking dick.
Click to expand...

Input:

I have been called a "fucking dick" by May1010.

Analysis of Input:

May1010 was defeated by Warik, thus, he is upset and resorts to childish attacks rich in offensive, profane language.

Conclusion:

Too ez kid $$

-Warik
 
Again, no one still has given a sound policy reason as to why punishment is superior to reform in dealing with criminals.

As already mentioned: look at where punishment of drug offenders has gotten us----it's given us overcrowded prisons with prisoners who have no business being there.

The current system of punish, punish, clearly isn't working, so why do so many of you continue to endorse it....?
 
if we punish murderers by death, they are not given another opportunity to kill anyone else. that in itself is a completely sound argument. a crime as heinous as murder does not deserve any sympathy. he purposely and knowingly ended someone's life...his should be ended period end of statement. if we try to reform them, there is no guarantee that they will not go back out and do it again.
 
RyanH said:
Again, no one still has given a sound policy reason as to why punishment is superior to reform in dealing with criminals.
Click to expand...

28 years for murder is not punishment.

Life in prison with no parole or death - criminal is unable to harm another innocent victim.

"Reform" - Criminal laughs after being released.

I bet you think "guilty due to temporary insanity" is a good idea too.

-Warik
 
Warik---

The insanity defense is rarely ever successful, and when it is, its usually less desirable than getting a normal sentence.

That aside: Warik you are using EMOTIONS in your argument. You still haven't offered a sound policy reason for punishment as opposed to reform....since we know that punishment is not usually a deterrent.

I bet if we devoted more of our resources to reform as opposed to throwing criminals in jail, we would see a reduction in crime.......

Punishment is usually a guaranteed failure. Criminals need help, not a dark jail.....
 
The 13 year old African American child in Florida, accused of killing his teacher, was just given 28 years by the judge.
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How is the fact that he is African American relevant?

Just wondering because you wanted to know why it was relevant to mention the Arabian in my post. Could this be MORE hypocrisy exhibited by RyanH??:eek2:
 
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RyanH said:
The insanity defense is rarely ever successful, and when it is, its usually less desirable than getting a normal sentence.
Click to expand...

I don't know about you, but spending a few months in some type of mental institution (isolated from humanity... yay!) knowing full well that I am perfectly sound of mental health is certainly more appealing than watching my back and refusing to shower for a few decades.

RyanH said:
That aside: Warik you are using EMOTIONS in your argument. You still haven't offered a sound policy reason for punishment as opposed to reform....
Click to expand...

Emotions? I'm using fact. Please be so kind as to quote some of my emotional outbursts.

I have given you a sound reason. Appropriate punishment = it doesn't happen again. Reform = he'll do it again after you're foolish enough to unleash him on society.

RyanH said:
since we know that punishment is not usually a deterrent.
Click to expand...

How do you figure? Many murder/rape/violent crime offenders are repeat offenders. A man who is permanently behind bars or taking an eternal dirt nap CANNOT COMMIT CRIMES. Surprise! Less crime.

RyanH said:
I bet if we devoted more of our resources to reform as opposed to throwing criminals in jail, we would see a reduction in crime.......
Click to expand...

Reduction in crime? (Petty theft, drug abuse, traffic violations) Sure! Shoplifters will get jobs... drug abusers will get counseling... traffic violators will learn to drive safely.

Reductions in violent crime? (Murder, rape, armed robbery, domestic abuse) You wish. A murderer is a murderer. A rapist is a rapist. If your idea of reform is blatant brainwashing, then I fully support it. Otherwise, I don't see any "proof" of your reform ideas being any better than my ideas. As a matter of fact, my ideas are clearly more effective.

A dead man cannot commit murder.

RyanH said:
Punishment is usually a guaranteed failure. Criminals need help, not a dark jail.....
Click to expand...

Criminals need to pose for Satanic Goatslayer's pics.

-Warik
 
The family of the teacher will NEVER have the satisfaction of having 28 more fulfilling years with their father,husband, brother,uncle, or FRIEND!!The way kids are going now if we as a society DO NOT SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT IF YOU DO A BIG BOY CRIME THEN YOU WILL DO THE BIG BOY TIME then we will see many more of these incidents occur . He was a brilliant child who obviously knew the difference between right and wrong but it was PREMEDITATED.He was told to leave the school because of a waterbaloon fight and then he chose to go home and get a GUN and return knowing damn well he was not coming to talk,but rather to be the judge and jury of a grown man, a teacher, who had done nothing but enforce some mild disciplinary action upon him and he deserved to DIE because of that?? WAKE UP PEOPLE, he took a life,not by accident, but he made the choice to get a weapon and return with all good intention of TAKING ANOTHER HUMAN BEINGS LIFE ???? He had a bright future but he is THE DEVIL and he is lucky he did not get the chair!!He could of just stayed home and been MAD, but he decided in his rage that he was going to take the weapon BACK TO SCHOOL AND SETTLE THE SCORE??? My mother is a teacher and I know how I would feel if some so called kid did that to her!!! I live in florida and I do not want my tax money to go towards supporting his ass in prison AND HIS RACE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!! EVIL IS EVIL AND IF ET HAD DONE THIS I WOULD STILL WANT HIS ALIEN ASS TO DIE FOR TAKING MY LOVED ONES LIFE. NO RACE INVOLVED HERE JUST A SICK MF WHO REMOVED A GOOD HUMAN BEING FROM THIS WORLD FOREVER......... RACE MY ASS , JUST ANOTHER TIME BOMB THAT WENT OFF.............:mad:
 
RIZZO,

I'm proud of you. Let's stick to crime & punishment threads so that we can be friends. =)

-Warik
 
Ryan asked for an example of how Punishment is better then reform.

Well Ryan you should read some of the Canadian Newspapers online, you will see how our lax judical system is such a joke to criminals around the world.

In lay terms, up here in the Great White North our prisoners are treated better then poor people. We have all our social engineers and fucked in the head politicians who talk about rehabilitating blh blah. Usually we let our worst criminals out very early into their sentences because of good behaviour in prison or overcrowding. This is something I dont understand because I imagine most people are put into prison for not behaving themselves, so shouldnt they behave in prison, do the full term and not get a fucking dog biscuit for being good in jail?

Anyways back to my point. We let people out all the time early in the sentence and hear the reasons that they are reformed, then a month later you read about how this reformed guy we just let out killed,robbed, raped, molested someone.

I am not going to get into the big words here because I am tired and dont give a fuck , but just read our newspapers online here in Canada for a few weeks and you will see all the bullshit we put up with here in Canada in the name of tolerance and reform.

There are no real easy answers to whatver this kid did, but I do think at the same time the problem starts at home with the parents not disiplining the kids.
That and the social engineers out there who usually dont have kids themselves telling us all the best way to raise Junior.

Lastly if I had a kid and he did this, I would kill the little fucker myself.Then again if I had a kid he would know upfront who is boss and to respect his elders.
 
Rizzo and Warik are right...this person got off with a slap on the hand... I hate to be the one to inform you ryan..but rehablitation does not work...at least not percentage wise for me to accept it... if we let 100 convicted murderers out that have been rehabilitated and 1 commits another murder..than the rehab has failed miserably...... You forget..these are peoples lives we are dealing with...not just a "School Teacher" that you only read about in the paper....its real...his brains were splattered over the school...obviously you have never seen anything like this in real life (I have) but have only read about it in the papers...I do not think he should of got the death penalty..only because he was 13...I think that is the only mercy the court should show him...but I do feel that life without parole would of been the correct sentence..
 
If it were up to me, Id tie the little bitch to some type of floating device (small enough so his feet are in the water, get about a 20 foot rope and tie it to a boat, cut one of his feet deeply, and go trolling for sharks for 15 hours making sure to keep him bleeding slightly and dump bloody fish guts in the water. If the little fuck survives, he can go free :D
 
I find it hard to believe that someone who is in his/her early teens is a morally responsible as an adult, who has more life experience.
I certainly don't condone killing anyone, and I'm not defending the kid's actions. But I think it's disturbing that so many people would advocate the death penalty for any juvenile. And in one post, someone wished death upon the defendant's family. That's just over the top! That's nearly as cold-blooded a sentiment as any murder who you would condemn might possess.
Nothing in the kid's background could justify what he did, but what we don't know about his background and his possible mental illnesses, should be mitigating factors. I'm sure that the judge took those factors into consideration. Perhaps, some of the people here should make a similar attempt.
Someone else posted that liberals are just conservatives that haven't been mugged. Well, I've been assaulted by strangers and mugged, but I'm still a liberal.
What we have is a terrible dilemma. We have a kid that commits a heinous crime, but I think we understand that kids haven't developed the same moral sense as adults. What do we do with him? Certainly, keep him away from society for a number of years. But do we incarcerate him for life? I'm not sure. If I knew more about his background, perhaps I might be willing to pass such a judgment. But without such information, I would caution others to not rush in where angels fear to tread.
 
NYCdefender how is this for moral resp.

a 4 yr old is told by his mother not to grab for the cookie jar. His mother walks out of the room and the kid reaches for it and breaks it. The mother walks into the room and finds the child crying...Now why would a child be crying if he didn't know on some level he was morally wrong.

Oh that child might not have been able to say "that was morally wrong" but he knows they fucked up.

You people can sugar coat it any which way you want to, but proof is showing us how "conformed" these criminals are....Any of you dare show stats on how often "conformed" or "treated" criminals commit crimes again once they are let out?
 
TXCol, I don't think that the child-cookiejar analogy is very good. The child cries because he knows that he is going to be punished--not because he is in the throes of a moral dilemma!
I admit that stats are hard to come by. I know that I have clients that will be part of the system for their entire lives. For some, it's because they are truly bad people. For others, it's economic. After clients get out of state jail, almost none of them have any means of financial support. So many of them sell drugs or burgle again. Personally, I would probably try to do better with my life if I were in the same situation. But maybe that's why I'm on one side of the bars!
I also have a ton of clients that have mental illnesses that they system refuses to treat. I just had a burglar that got a very long sentence. He's extremely dangerous (bipolar) when he's not on meds and self-medicating with crack. When he was on his meds, he was perfectly calm. If the system were better designed to meet the mental health needs of many of my clients, I'm sure that many of my clients would be reformed. (For some reason you repeated "conform." I'm only speculating that you meant reform.)
But to say that we should lock people up and throw away the key seems to be an oversimplified answer--one that refuses to tackle the tough issues of mental health and economic disenfrancihisement.
I am not saying that those are the only two issues that face many of my clients. There are probably many others. And I am not using those issues as an excuse for their behavior. I just think that those issues should mitigate any sentence that they could receive. And they are areas that the system must explore, if the system truly wishes to seek justice.
 
No one that I can see has mentioned the sad fact that our children are screwed up in the head because adults are showing them screwed up behavior.

The leaves don't fall far from the tree. We are all responsible for our children's behavior. Our society is a gun-toting, violence-loving, kill for money/fame world. This kid repeated what he's seen.

And by the way...whether or not the jury was black or not doesn't matter...blacks can be prejudiced against other blacks too.

You people who are for capital punishment of a child should be pitied...if you are in a situation where you commit a crime out of passion...do you want to be fried?

Any of us is capable of committing a crime of passion...none of us knows for sure how we will react in certain situations. And we are adults...
 
I don't think that Ryan should be flamed for mentioning the kid's race. Race does matter in the criminal justice system. For instance, I have never had a white client convicted after trial. The jurors in Manhattan are predominately white and seem to be more willing to apply the presumption of innocence to a white defendant than to a defendant of color. My experience is not that unique. All of my colleagues usually agree that there are certain types of cases that we would be more likely to win, if our clients were white.
But I think that in homicide cases, juries aren't as biased when it comes to issues of guilt/innocence, as opposed to when they decide punishment. An Alabama study found that a vast majority of the time, a black defendant who killed a white victim would receive the death penalty. The percentage dropped when a black person killed another black person. The percentage of the imposition of the death penalty dropped even lower when a white defendant was convicted of killing a white victim. And, yes, the statistic was even lower when a white defendant killed a black person.
I agree that race should not matter. Unfortunately, it is an ugly factor that is considered in our criminal justice system.:mad:
 
I used the word conform cause thats the impression I get from people I have known to have gone to prison or met once they left. I knew a guy very well who stole a car to drive 2 buddies to go rob a guy. One of the brothers was mentally ill and ended up killing some people in the house of the person they went to rob, the 2 brothers were put on death row, and the guy I knew is spending life in prison. Do I feel sorry for him you bet. He had no clue people were going to be killed, but it happened. I still feel sorry for his parents and especially is brother whom I was good friends with.

I feel the worst for the people who were killed in that house. Their loved ones can do nothing but live the rest of their lives the best they can.

The guy was only 16 when he stole this car....Do you think a 13 yr old knows less then a 16 yr old? Reguardless if he knew it....A crime is still a crime. If your convicted be prepared to serve whats handed to you.

By conforming you do what you can to convince people in charge you are changed and couldn't do it again. Reforming would mean you have actually changed who you are in the process of your time in prison. Something I seriously doubt happens even in the best of circumstances
 
I live about 5 minutes from Lake Worth Middle School were the shooting occurred and have followed this case closely and objectively well before its inception into mainstream American media.

This trial was very complex. When dealing with adolescent crime finding a fair and just punishment can become tedious and heartbreaking. Adolescent crime should be handled properly and the statutes applied appropriately when sentencing.

Most states have recognized that crimes committed by juveniles fall under different statutes than those crimes committed by their adult counterparts. However these laws are often undermined and applied unequally in many states such as Florida. Florida as well as states like Texas and Michigan have recently shown no regard or leniency to juvenile or handicapped offenders.

I believe this is due to the bureaucracy that can be found within our justice system. Politics nor the vengeful attitudes of the American public should ever become a force in determining the fate of a young offender. As many well know, politics and bureaucratic selfishness have become second nature amongst politicians in Palm Beach County within the past few years.

A 13 year old child is far from becoming a developed adult. Psychologists as well as sociologists recognize many of the mitigating factors that mold and can corrupt young influential children. We cannot ignore societies influence nor more importantly can we ignore a parents responsibility in raising and guiding children throughout their most venerable years.

I pray that Nathaniel Brazil receives treatment and is provided support while in prison. Prison is no place for 13 year old child. Prison will only hamper his chances of healing and recovery.
 
If one murders then one goes to jail or dies. What about the two white kids 10 and 13 I believe from Arkansas (?) They sniped their class mates and so on and killed how many? They are gonna get life. The DA would have preferred death, but can't execute a minor.

We also in Kansas, sent a bitch boy to jail for 40 years no parole (he was 13 at the time) for murdering Kevin Easter, a Sheriff's Deputy just 1 mile from my home and right after I joined the S/O.

They appealed his conviction saying that Kevin's wife inflamed the jury and biased them into a harsher sentence. At his retrial he recieved more convictions and more time.

This thing with bias is bullshit. It is a democratic/liberal attempt at inflaming peoples attitudes towards punishment.

Jail is for punishment. That is what it was created for. Not rehabilitation. You want to rehabilitate? That is like curing the disease by waiting for it to occur.

Find out what is wrong with society and fix it. And it isn't guns or drugs. It is much worse.

It is the gov't (liberal in general) that feels that we need to be governed and told what to do because we are incapable of governing ourselves and deciding what is best for us.
 
The problem is the gov't feels that it must tell us how to raise our children. It does not feel we are capable. Just look at Hillary's book, It takes a village. No, it does not take a village, it takes one or two adults with responsibility to raise a child, period.

The more the gov't conitnues to interfere with our parental rights the more we will see this sort of thing.
 
chesty said:
The problem is the gov't feels that it must tell us how to raise our children. It does not feel we are capable. Just look at Hillary's book, It takes a village. No, it does not take a village, it takes one or two adults with responsibility to raise a child, period.

The more the gov't conitnues to interfere with our parental rights the more we will see this sort of thing.
Click to expand...

We see what parental rights has given us: murdered and abused children. The government must play a more active role in the rearing of children since many parents seem incapable of doing an adequate job of raising their children.

Sure, the right to parent is a constitutional right, but it is not absolute----it has limits, all relating to the failure of a parent to give their child proper education, nutrition, or mental health.

As Hillary Clinton said, "It does take a village" to raise our children to become better citizens...
 
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RyanH said:
We see what parental rights has given us: murdered and abused children. The government must play a more active role in the rearing of children since many parents seem incapable of doing an adequate job of raising their children.
Click to expand...

I'm speechless.

I can't outright flame you because part of me is certain that you're portraying the extreme insane leftist expecting everyone to flame you and then laugh later and say you were just kidding and that you could never be capable of uttering such nonsense seriously, but the other part of me wants me to flame you into next week for such utter lunacy.

I have no choice... there is only one thing left to do:
 
An excerpt from Hillary Clinton's book, I've read it a million times:

"Nothing is more important to our shared future than the well-being of children. For children are at our core--not only as vulnerable beings in need of love and care but as a moral touchstone admidst the complexity and contentiousness of modern life. Just as it takes a village to raise a child, it takes children to raise up a village to become all it should be. The village we build with them in mind will be a better place for us all."

Buy Hillary's book at your local bookstore............
 
TheSalami said:
they should just execute little shits like this. put a bullet in his head right outside the courtroom.
Click to expand...

Amen. I hafta disagree with the guy who said he could go on to live a good life. If at 13 you're too ignorant and immature to know not to kill your teacher...thats absolutely ridiculous and the world doesn't need pricks like this
 
RyanH said:


As Hillary Clinton said, "It does take a village" to raise our children to become better citizens...
Click to expand...

This is what disgusts me w/ society today. Everyone is trying to blame everyone for their shortcomings or their mistakes. I am utterly disgusted w/ the way people act. They think they can do whatever they please and when it goes sour just say "Oh well it wasn't my fault".

Whoever thinks that it takes a village to raise a child shouldn't have children. It takes 2 frigging parents to raise a child. It is not my responsibility to raise someone else's kid. If you don't want the responsibility then don't have sex. Plain and simple. Noone ever got pregnant by getting themselves off.
 
Ryan: "We see what parental rights has given us: murdered and abused children. The government must play a more active role in the rearing of children since many parents seem incapable of doing an adequate job of raising their children."

I'm a liberal, and not even I believe the above statement. I don't need incompetent bureucrats telling me how to raise my child. And I don't think that a single person could possibly point to any child protective agency in the nation and say, with a straight face, that they are doing even a passable job.

Ryan, get a grip. You were doing well on this thread up until your past two posts IMHO.
 
BigPhysics: As usual, you are searching for facts that do not exist. Show us proof that punishment is superior to rehabilitation as a way of dealing with crime. I bet you cannot. Again, look at drug abuse as a prime example of why punishment doesn't work.

CHILDREN: Of course, parents have an absolute right in the rearing of children, but many parents do not do what is best for his or her child. For example, many Jehovah's Witnesses refuse blood transfusions for their children, b/c it goes against their religious faith. Yet, the government continously steps-in and saves those children from certain death.

The government acts again and again whenever necessary to protect children. This action should not change. Many parents are failing miserably at raising their children. For instance, the mother who killed all 5 of children probably killed her kids b/c she was overwhelmed with her responsbilities----she needed a village. Instead, she got an absent husband and sheer loneliness.

I'm all for the individual, but society was much more successful when we, in fact, behaved as if we were a village....It does take a village..........
 
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