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1 year plan..

  • Thread starter Thread starter satchboogie
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satchboogie

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these flights can get really boring.
even on business class aint shit to do but daydream about one of the stewardist climbing me for quicky when the lights are out.
so im chillin with a glass of merlot, legs up in the air, brainstorming...
then comes out the laptop.. i been thinkin about this for a while now!!


WEEKS 1-12: 12 weeks bulking

goal: to add as much muscle as possible!
choice of gear: high anabolics/high androgens. hgh/slin an option but not a must!
what to avoid: excessive cardio, undereating, fat burners and/or thermogenics.
the most critical error you can make: not eat enough! not train hard enough!

the diet:

eat eat eat..
but make sure to NOT overeat!
1500 cals above maintanance should do you fine.
on steroids, your body wants to grow and it needs food food food!
and expect to gain some fat.. its part of the game!

the workouts:

2x workouts per day if possible.
one in the morning, one at night.
if 2x per day isnt possible, then train as much as possible.
try to train each bodypart at least every 5-6 days with legs and back as exceptions as those bodyparts may need more recovery. if youve been training for a while, you should know what works for you.

tip: bulking is a walk in the park compared to cutting.. the only thing demanded here thats a bit hard is to train hardcore and with frequency. so give it all you got!


rest:

as much as possible!

======================================

WEEKS 13-20: POST BULKING CYCLE THEARPY:

goal: to keep gains from bulking cycle.
choice of gear: hcg, nolvadex or clomid, vitamin b12, creatine.
what to avoid: excessive cardio, undereating, fat burners and/or thermogenics, steroids!
the most critical error you can make: immediately start a cutting cycle and/ or cut calories down!!!

the diet: eat eat eat... this is the time when the body actually needs all the help to keep gains. that means eating just as much as when bulking.. maybe even a bit more. adding creatine IS A MUST!!! cant stress how important creatine is for PCT. during the 8 week pct, expect to gain a bit more fat.. thats perfectly fine. its part of keepin gains!

the training:

ease off the training a bit, but get at least 1 workout per bodypart per week.
that means doing a few less sets per bodypart, but still hittin the weights hard.

tip: the longer the body holds extra mass, the more likely it'll keep that mass permenantly, so dont worry about gaining more fat.

rest:

as much as possible!

==========================

AFTER WEEK 20 IS OVER WITH:

its here that youll overview your results so far.
if you followed the pct plan, you should have kept most if not all your gains but have also gained some fat too.

if you feel like youve lost some mass despite following a strict pct routine, 100mg primo per week for 4 weeks would be a nice addition.

either way, on to the next phase:

=================================================
WEEKS 21-28: MAINTANANCE/CUTTING PREPARATION

goal: solidify gains from bulking cycle/pct, while losing a little bit of fat.
choice of gear: optional 100mg primo per week for first 4 weeks only!
what to avoid: overeating, overtraining, excessive cardio, steroids!
the most critical mistake: overeating.. eat too much here and youll become a beast.

diet:

eat to maintain your size. nothing more nothing less!
at this point, youll also stop creatine (as it probably wont be affective anymore).

training:

you're natural at this point, so 1x workout per week hard and effective!
you can start adding cardio sessions 2-3 times per week.
preferably after a workout for 20 minutes.

tip: prepare yourself mentally for the next 12 weeks cutting cycle.. a time when social time will be cut down, energy levels will suffer, and basically 3 unpleasant months.


rest:

as much as possible!
=========================================

WEEKS 29-40: CUTTING CYCLE

goal: get ripped to the fuckin bone!!!
choice of gear: arguable area, but i suggest sticking with high anabolics/high androgens. clenbuterol, efedrine, t3, R-ALA.
the combination of low cals and cardio puts the body through heavy stress. so use more gear during cutting cycles to avoid catabolism.
what to avoid: overeating, not enough rest!
most critical mistake: fuckin up on diet, fuckin up on diet, and fucking up on diet!

diet:

every body is composed differently but LBM (lean body mass) x 10- 12 should put you in a nice fat burning zone.
this area of dieting is very arguable as some work well on very low carbs, while some eat carbs only pre and post workouts. then there are others who still manage to do fine with 200-300g carbs per day. personally, i feel the most importatnt time for carbs is pre workout and post workout. 50g pre workout will fuel a decent workout, while 50mg post should help recover.
other times of the day, stick to as little carbs as possible per meal.. 10-20g max!

the first 4 weeks, you should see very nice progress.
the body will react fast by burning alot of fat FAST!
its after 4 weeks or so that fat burning will slow down just a bit.
this is a great time for a clen/t3 pyramid:

t3: 25mcg up to 100mcg and pyramid down to 12.5mcg
clen: find what works for you.. i like 200mcg a day. add taurine every day! this is a must!
if clen stops working, stop for 2 weeks and take efedrine and/or ventolin for 2 weeks.. then go back to clen.

training:

overtraining while cutting is quite easy to acheive so monitor your body closely!
train heavy as usual, but add cardio at 4-6 cardio sessions per week.
post workouts at 30 minutes.
or cardio sessions by themselves at 45 minutes.
am cardio is also an option at 30-45 minutes.

tip: cutting sucks balls! dont get discouraged! dont crash! avoid cheat meals. its only 12 weeks and no room for error!

rest:

as much as possible!
=======================================

AFTER CUTTING CYCLE IS COMPLETED:

monitor yourself.
you may need to shed more fat in which case extending cycle another 2-4 weeks may help.
of if you feel you lost some size, up the cals drastically and start training 2x per day for a few weeks.
the body will put on a nice amount of muscle after a cutting cycle if fed right.

=============================================

WEEKS 41-52: POST CUTTING CYCLE THERAPY

goal: use the first 4 weeks to pack on some heavy size.
choice of gear: hcg/nolvadex/b12/creatine
what to avoid: undereating, excessive cardio, fat burners/theromgenics, steroids, cardio.
critical mistake you can make: undereating

diet:

you just starved yourself for 12 weeks and the body is readly to explode. this is an ideal 2-4 week range to pack on some nice size NATURALLY!! creatine is a must here. so is eating.. but not overeating. so the combination of 500-1000 extra cals over maintanance per day and heavy training should help you gain nice mass.

training:

hit it hard but not too hard!
no cardio period!

tip: time for a vacation too i think. no?
 
A day in the mind of the Boogieman!!! Good read! I got a 10 hour flight coming up and i have no clue how i am going to handle it!

BGI
 
yeah I'm all for the plan..why not, but I would bulk for 16-18 weeks.
 
Why would you do 2 a days when bulking, with only 1500 extra cals, especially if any cardio is in there? The most massive body builders I have seen do like a 4 or 5 day slip, hammering the crap out of those 1 workouts. Just wondering your thougths on the 2 a days, how do you split them up and so on, did you mean cardio in the am and lift in the pm?
 
Pretty good plan for the most part.

I don't like the training much though. Bodyparts should be hit at least twice/week cutting or bulking. You don't have to hammer the $#%@ out of them every workout, just keep a constant stimulus.

The only other comment I'd make is you'd have to make some slight modifications based on whether you have an easy or tough time getting lean (ecto or endo). The plan seems best for someone more in the middle, while I'd tell ectos to do more bulking, and endos to do more cutting.

Borg, remember that size isn't always the best indicator of knowledge. The biggest bodybuilders might know what they're talking about OR they might be the guys with the best genetics and/or using the most gear.
 
The plan looks good. However, I would eliminate the 2X per day training when trying to add mass. You need to allow your body plenty of rest to grow. Personally, I would only hit the gym 4-5days per week max.
 
Borg4902 said:
Why would you do 2 a days when bulking, with only 1500 extra cals, especially if any cardio is in there? The most massive body builders I have seen do like a 4 or 5 day slip, hammering the crap out of those 1 workouts. Just wondering your thougths on the 2 a days, how do you split them up and so on, did you mean cardio in the am and lift in the pm?

hey borg....

the addition of extra cals ON TOP of steroids will make your body an anabolic machine! recovery time should be super fast, and strength should be way up! and if you have the strength for a 2nd workout, there's not a better time than when bulking!!

as far as the split goes to each his own.
but on a sidenote..

chris cormier does the same plan when bulking and each body part gets 3 sessions per 2 weeks.

NO CARDIO during bulking period!
 
satchboogie said:
hey borg....

the addition of extra cals ON TOP of steroids will make your body an anabolic machine! recovery time should be super fast, and strength should be way up! and if you have the strength for a 2nd workout, there's not a better time than when bulking!!

as far as the split goes to each his own.
but on a sidenote..

chris cormier does the same plan when bulking and each body part gets 3 sessions per 2 weeks.

NO CARDIO during bulking period!

3 things:

1) You grow out of the gym, not in it. I'm not totally against going twice/day, but I think that strategy should only be incorporated for brief periods of time to switch things up.

2) Cardio is good for you and is beneficial for your health 365 days/year. And hell, if you're bulking it just means you get to eat more to make up for it. That's a win-win IMO.

3) What Chris Cormier (or any pro for that matter) does is irrelevant. He also parties something like 5 nights/week and does tons of recreational drugs; do you recommend that as well?
 
Joe Stenson said:
3 things:

1) You grow out of the gym, not in it. I'm not totally against going twice/day, but I think that strategy should only be incorporated for brief periods of time to switch things up.

2) Cardio is good for you and is beneficial for your health 365 days/year. And hell, if you're bulking it just means you get to eat more to make up for it. That's a win-win IMO.

3) What Chris Cormier (or any pro for that matter) does is irrelevant. He also parties something like 5 nights/week and does tons of recreational drugs; do you recommend that as well?

Took the words right out of my mouth.
 
For cardio you can always walk on an incline. It spares your muscles, trims some fat and gets your blood pumping!
 
Don't over train no need to lift twice a day get it done right the first time. No more the 3 exercises with 3 sets a max total of 9 sets per muscle group. You want to grow right? Then don't over train. Most peoples problem is over training in general. Less is more here exahust the muscle in your first work out and there is no need to do a 2nd one.
 
i see a consenus here against 2x per day training.

but it worked for me last time around so i will try it again.

the 1 year plan is my plan and may not work for everybody.

thanks for the feedback people.. id like to hear more.
 
satchboogie said:
i see a consenus here against 2x per day training.

but it worked for me last time around so i will try it again.

the 1 year plan is my plan and may not work for everybody.

thanks for the feedback people.. id like to hear more.
How well did it really work for you how much did you really gain? Why not try a diffrent route? Less is more like I said you exhaust the muscle properly the first time around and no need to do the 2nd work out.
 
Borg4902 said:
Took the words right out of my mouth.

Satch,
Everyone is different but I would have to agree and say your better off with only training once a day with max intensity.
During your bulk add IGF-1 with HGH and you'll definitely put on the pounds. By the way up the calories even more if you can when using these substances. :chomp:
 
I dont care what anyone sais if you do a proper workout in the morning there is now way anyone on the planet can put that same effort into that second workout of the day. After one of my off season leg routine's I can barely walk for hours, I couldnt fathum going back and hitting anything. I would save the 2 a days for the last 4 or 5 weeks of your cutter.
 
Borg4902 said:
I dont care what anyone sais if you do a proper workout in the morning there is now way anyone on the planet can put that same effort into that second workout of the day. After one of my off season leg routine's I can barely walk for hours, I couldnt fathum going back and hitting anything. I would save the 2 a days for the last 4 or 5 weeks of your cutter.

A "proper" workout provides a stimulus for growth...it doesn't have to cripple you.

If that's what works for you, that's fine. Whether it's optimal or not is certainly debateable.
 
Joe Stenson said:
A "proper" workout provides a stimulus for growth...it doesn't have to cripple you.

If that's what works for you, that's fine. Whether it's optimal or not is certainly debateable.
Exahusting the muscle is what works for most. Satch has been doing 2 times a day works for how long now? He is in good shape but is he huge? No. Could he be sure has unlimited gear supply and all the time in the world to eat sleep and train. Less is more ask.
 
Joe Stenson said:
A "proper" workout provides a stimulus for growth...it doesn't have to cripple you.

If that's what works for you, that's fine. Whether it's optimal or not is certainly debateable.

So are you recommending 2 a days for maximal growth?
 
Borg4902 said:
So are you recommending 2 a days for maximal growth?

No. But I do recommend hitting a bodypart more frequently than once/week for maximal growth. 2 upper body and 2 lower body workouts per week is a pretty standard workout schedule that I think works quite well. You can make things more complex if you want, but that's a good one.
 
Joe Stenson said:
Pretty good plan for the most part.

I don't like the training much though. Bodyparts should be hit at least twice/week cutting or bulking. You don't have to hammer the $#%@ out of them every workout, just keep a constant stimulus.

The only other comment I'd make is you'd have to make some slight modifications based on whether you have an easy or tough time getting lean (ecto or endo). The plan seems best for someone more in the middle, while I'd tell ectos to do more bulking, and endos to do more cutting.

Borg, remember that size isn't always the best indicator of knowledge. The biggest bodybuilders might know what they're talking about OR they might be the guys with the best genetics and/or using the most gear.



are you kidding me here----your saying ALL BODY PARTS SHOULD BE HIT 2x WEEK???? You've just concluded all the skepticism from your other threads......




SATCH---GREAT PLAN----OUTSTANDING REALLY!!!!!


Very impressive----



Cant wait to see the improvement from your dedication!!!
 
Willbe, what are your thought on 2 a days. I got my ass reamed by my trainer for even saying that word in the same sentence as bulking?
 
will b huge said:
are you kidding me here----your saying ALL BODY PARTS SHOULD BE HIT 2x WEEK???? You've just concluded all the skepticism from your other threads......

If you're disagreeing with me, which I know you LOVE to do, that's perfectly acceptable. I don't expect everyone to agree. It would be nice if you could ever explain your position though instead of just simply stating how dumb I am.

Also, when people talk about different splits and frequencies, remember that volume is a key factor. There's a big difference between a 3-set leg workout and a 20-set leg workout in terms of recovery time.
 
Borg4902 said:
Willbe, what are your thought on 2 a days. I got my ass reamed by my trainer for even saying that word in the same sentence as bulking?


I was simply saying that working out every single body part twice per week regardless of bulking or cutting was one of the dumbest things I've heard/seen on Elite Fitness.......

Out of everyone I've been around, 2 a days have been used for comp diets when you need to go to the gym twice anyways for cardio........but rest is very very important......you have to do what your body can handle----

2 a days for bulking---I personally haven't seen---you'd have to take quite a bit more cals in per day if you workout hard twice---plus I like to go to complete failure and I wouldn't have the energy to go back again without sleeping for 8+ hours~!!!!
 
will b huge said:
I was simply saying that working out every single body part twice per week regardless of bulking or cutting was one of the dumbest things I've heard/seen on Elite Fitness.......

Why?

And when you're answering, keep in mind what I said about volume.
 
Joe Stenson said:
Why?

And when you're answering, keep in mind what I said about volume.



Joe, I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT VOLUME---there is only one way to TRAIN and that is ALL OUT!!!!!!------Let that body part rest......Theres not time to hit every single body part properly twice per week anyways........

Done with this thread....
 
will b huge said:
Joe, I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT VOLUME---there is only one way to TRAIN and that is ALL OUT!!!!!!------Let that body part rest......Theres not time to hit every single body part properly twice per week anyways........

Will, can I assume you're not a lawyer? ie. your debating skills are dreadful.

I would love to have a debate with you or anyone else as to why hitting a bodypart less intensely, but more frequently is better/worse and I'm sure people would learn something from it. Your attitude of "my way is right, everyone else is wrong" doesn't really contribute much to the board.

Instead of just making bold claims and emphasizing them by using caps lock, why don't you offer an explanation so you can actually help people learn?
 
In my experience, it's difficult to predict that far into the future what the results will be like. But yeah, I'd strongly recommend not training 2X per day. I've done it before with great results, too. But if you do it once per day with double the intensity you'll probably get even better results. I know I did.
 
jay cutler also trains 2x per day!!!!
watch his dvd's and learn.

WILL B HUGE..

you have the right idea bro.
i dont believe once a week per bodypart is even close to enough for maximal growth.
sure they'll grow on once per week..
but every 4-5 days is more beneficial when bulking!!

thanks brotha..
 
Borg4902 said:
Why the hell dont you back your you are one of the only ones claiming this stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The idea is to achieve a stimulus for growth with the LEAST amount of effort possible because then your recovery time is shorter and you can hit the gym again sooner. It also puts the least stress on your central nervous system, which is typically what gets "overtrained" if anything is going to.

If your calories are sufficient, and you're progressively increasing the weights you're lifting, don't you think you'd grow better hitting a bodypart 8 times in a month as opposed to 4?

Why are you better off hammering a bodypart into submission with a ton of sets to failure, only to need a week or longer to recover from the session? The most anabolic time for a muscle to grow is in the few days following the workout. Once these heightened state of anabolism dies, what's needed? More stimulus. What's the point of waiting another 3-4 days to hit the bodypart again? You're just missing out on growth time.

satchboogie said:
WILL B HUGE..

you have the right idea bro.
i dont believe once a week per bodypart is even close to enough for maximal growth.
sure they'll grow on once per week..
but every 4-5 days is more beneficial when bulking!!

thanks brotha..

*scratches head*

will b huge is the guy saying you can't hit a bodypart more than once/week...
 
joe - your volume and intensity stuff sounds like fred hatfield, is that where these ideas are stemming. i've heard it before but never tried it. i have seen splits where there are 3 training intensities: low, medium, and hard and you mix and match the days so there are more light sessions than heavy. i think that was the set up.

will b - there is more than 1 way to train, it's called periodization. training all out works but not week in and week out.
 
satchboogie said:
jay cutler also trains 2x per day!!!!
watch his dvd's and learn.

WILL B HUGE..

you have the right idea bro.
i dont believe once a week per bodypart is even close to enough for maximal growth.
sure they'll grow on once per week..
but every 4-5 days is more beneficial when bulking!!

thanks brotha..


Satch. I hope we squashed the crap. I just like to say that I'm with you on this. I know where you want to go. I know your type. You remind me of.....ME! You got a plan for everything. That is good. Stick with it and do it! Just don't be like me. Where things or people or so-called " acts of god " are always preventing me from acheiving my goals. I'm watching you! Don't let me down! We are all watching you! DO NOT DISAPPOINT US!!!
 
Bro! Use the fucking Slin! You'll go from this...

IMG_0099.jpg


To this...

IMG_7376.jpg



And then this...

IMG_7716.jpg
 
timtim said:
joe - your volume and intensity stuff sounds like fred hatfield, is that where these ideas are stemming. i've heard it before but never tried it. i have seen splits where there are 3 training intensities: low, medium, and hard and you mix and match the days so there are more light sessions than heavy. i think that was the set up.

I may have read Fred's stuff, I'm not sure. The fact is that almost no one is recommending the "traditional" bodybuilder-style splits anymore. They were a few years ago, but things have changed. Look at the tremendous response for madcow's (or Bill Starr's) 5x5 on this board, and that's squatting 3 times/week. (Interestingly enough, Needsize actually likes the sound of this 5x5 routine more than the one he made up years ago, which was hitting each bodypart once/week.) Then you've got HST, which uses a few different principles but is still 3 full body workouts/week, and all the science backing it.

I'm not surprised that so many people still hit a bodypart only once/week as it's what they've been doing for years. Human beings are very stubborn by nature. But if you can show me some RECENT research that has been done that demonstrates that that's more effective I'd be shocked.

Times change. If people want to be left behind, that's their perogative, not mine.

timtim said:
will b - there is more than 1 way to train, it's called periodization. training all out works but not week in and week out.

Agreed. I've trained balls-to-the-wall before as well, and after reading a lot of the recent literature decided to give the lower volume, more frequent sessions thing a try and think it's been much more effective.

Basically each workout you do for a bodypart is contributing to its growth, so the more workouts you can get in during a given time period, the better your gains should be. This, however, must be balanced against proper recovery time, which is where the lower volume comes into play.
 
My entire point for chiming in here (besides to give props to Satch) was the post by Joe Stenson that said "Train all body parts 2 times per week" whether bulking or cutting"....


It was a dumb statement-----NOBODY TRAINS CHEST, BIS, TRIS, BACK, SHOULDERS, TRAPS, ABS, QUADS, HAMS, CALVES, ETC...TWICE A WEEK EVERY WEEK........


SURE SATCH---if you want to hit it every 4 or 5 days ----thats great....and usually the norm....but almost all people take either 2 or 3 days off per week...and that would never get all muscle parts in TWICE in one week.every week.....

(He said that in every 7 day period---you train all bodyparts twice----that is how the post was written)
Please show me how you'd train all of these bodyparts 2x in one week.......Id love to see this....

Are you going to do this:
Monday-Chest/Bis/Shoulders
Tuesday-Back/Tris/Abs
Wednesday-Quads/Hams/Calves
Thursday--Chest/Bis/Shoulders again
Friday--Back/Tris/Abs again
Saturday--Quads/Hams/Calves again

This would clearly be the dumbest thing I've seen----not to mention who would get a good workout doing CHEST/ BICEPS/ SHOULDERS in the same workout??????



To be honest, I would normally just not responded to a post like that----but I keep seeing these posts from this guy time and time again-----I asked him one time what he was doing in the thread-----his honest answer was that he likes to play the devils advocate because there is NO right answer!!!!

Please see this thread to get an idea of what I mean, Especially page 3 on of this thread........

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5094593#post5094593
 
will b huge said:
To be honest, I would normally just not responded to a post like that----but I keep seeing these posts from this guy time and time again-----I asked him one time what he was doing in the thread-----his honest answer was that he likes to play the devils advocate because there is NO right answer!!!!

Correct. There is no "right" answer. Timtim just stated that as well. And I said I've trained your way before (and yes I saw results), but the way I'm presenting I feel is better.

And I already gave a very typical split above, but here it is written out more clearly:

Mon- Upper body
Tue- Lower body
Wed - Off
Thurs- Upper body
Fri- Lower body
Sat- Off
Sun- Off

When you are doing low volume it isn't difficult to hit the entire upper body or entire lower body in a single session.


Here is Bill Starr's 5x5 from the training board:

The 5X5:

Monday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (same weight)
Benching 5x5 (flat, close grip or regular)(same weight)
JS Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)

Wednesday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (reduced 15-20% from Monday) or Front Squats 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5 (same weight)
Deadlifts 5x5 (same weight) (if you pull 2.5x bodyweight do 3x5)
Pull ups 5x5 (use weight if you need it)
Accessory (biceps and abs)

Friday:

Olympic Squats 5x5 (working up each set)
Benching 5x5 (flat or incline)(same weight)
Rows 5x5 (same weight)
Accessory (low volume triceps and abs)


And then you have HST:

Mon/Wed/Fri: Full body
Tue/Thurs/Sat/Sun: Off

There's 3 examples. You could play around with all of them and come up with tons of different splits.
 
will b huge said:
My entire point for chiming in here (besides to give props to Satch) was the post by Joe Stenson that said "Train all body parts 2 times per week" whether bulking or cutting"....


It was a dumb statement-----NOBODY TRAINS CHEST, BIS, TRIS, BACK, SHOULDERS, TRAPS, ABS, QUADS, HAMS, CALVES, ETC...TWICE A WEEK EVERY WEEK........


SURE SATCH---if you want to hit it every 4 or 5 days ----thats great....and usually the norm....but almost all people take either 2 or 3 days off per week...and that would never get all muscle parts in TWICE in one week.every week.....

(He said that in every 7 day period---you train all bodyparts twice----that is how the post was written)
Please show me how you'd train all of these bodyparts 2x in one week.......Id love to see this....

Are you going to do this:
Monday-Chest/Bis/Shoulders
Tuesday-Back/Tris/Abs
Wednesday-Quads/Hams/Calves
Thursday--Chest/Bis/Shoulders again
Friday--Back/Tris/Abs again
Saturday--Quads/Hams/Calves again

This would clearly be the dumbest thing I've seen----not to mention who would get a good workout doing CHEST/ BICEPS/ SHOULDERS in the same workout??????



To be honest, I would normally just not responded to a post like that----but I keep seeing these posts from this guy time and time again-----I asked him one time what he was doing in the thread-----his honest answer was that he likes to play the devils advocate because there is NO right answer!!!!

Please see this thread to get an idea of what I mean, Especially page 3 on of this thread........

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5094593#post5094593


HST... I've used it and saw great gains while bulking!
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

I was pretty skeptical at first as well.... but it did work for me! i like switching back and forth between the HST and my own modified 5 x 5 routine...
VW
 
CARTH bro..

yeah man all is squashed brotha no worries.
im aiming high for next year.
hopefully first competition..
 
I train 'muscle groups' 3 times every 2 weeks... but then I do 1-2 sets per area.

trying to do 5 x 5 on deads and squats twice a week is just dumb imo.. size follows strength and overtraining & overreaching prevents you from adding poundage to the bar. Staying ahead of your CNS by switching routines helps too I found

I don't train like pretty much anyone else here, so ymmv
 
Tweakle said:
trying to do 5 x 5 on deads and squats twice a week is just dumb imo.. size follows strength and overtraining & overreaching prevents you from adding poundage to the bar. Staying ahead of your CNS by switching routines helps too I found

I'm not terribly familiar with the program, but it is my understanding that only one of those days you're actually lifting your maxes. The other days are "light" days. This should avoid the CNS burnout you're speaking of (and that I was referring to when I said balls-to-the-wall training can lead to overtraining).
 
van_wilder said:
HST... I've used it and saw great gains while bulking!
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

I was pretty skeptical at first as well.... but it did work for me! i like switching back and forth between the HST and my own modified 5 x 5 routine...
VW

Personally, I hate doing legs and upper body in the same workout, even if it is only a few sets for legs. Thus, I didn't really like HST.

That being said, I've never heard of anyone complaining about a lack of results from the program.
 
Joe Stenson said:
Personally, I hate doing legs and upper body in the same workout, even if it is only a few sets for legs. Thus, I didn't really like HST.

That being said, I've never heard of anyone complaining about a lack of results from the program.

I didn't like that part either... i actually train upper body and lower body on separate days... HST recommends a 3 day training schedule... so mine is split into 6 days. wasn't overtraining because i was still hitting bodyparts with the same rest time but just doing less in a single workout. worked out really well for me!
 
Good post bro, when you starting ?? Get my blood tests back tomorrow so I am ready to hit it again, maybe we can start at the sametime and push each other throughout this upcoming cold winter.......So unless you're still scared of me, let's talk big guy :)
 
satchboogie said:
CARTH bro..

yeah man all is squashed brotha no worries.
im aiming high for next year.
hopefully first competition..

:rolleyes: Ummmm.... :rolleyes: Ummmm...

Carth VS. Satch II ??????????

Say.....August 2006???
 
Fuck it! 2 competitions. First one in the winter. Just to see who is the biggest and fatest! And then again in August. To see who looks more pretty! :qt:
 
actually i like the 5 x 5 and 3 x 5 training protocols because of the max effort days mixed with the functional strength days but i can't do this too much. i get tendinitis all the time in the elbows if i train more than 3 days a week. sucks, but i do have a lot of experience with the strength training protocols from various programs and the fact is everything works to an extent. finding what works for you is the key.
 
how about hireing a good trainer? you will be able to acheive a lot more with less drugs with proper guidance. im not talking about a trainer that works at your local gym
 
LOL.....

VAN/STENSON whoever is sitting at your computer right now....

Just curious why you (two?) are ALWAYS posting in the same threads-----ALWAYS 15 minutes or so apart------and ALWAYS complementing each other?????

I bet you both voted for the same Satch or Carth too......


LOL---it doesnt matter to me---whatever makes you happy----

And I thank you for the research that you look up and supply----I don't mind reading the studies that you find and post-----I can never get enough knowledge and can learn almost anything from almost anyone....


Karma to you Joe Stenson, or I mean Van Wilder...
 
alltraps said:
how about hireing a good trainer? you will be able to acheive a lot more with less drugs with proper guidance. im not talking about a trainer that works at your local gym

Damn! How much is that going to cost?!
 
Joe Stenson said:
The idea is to achieve a stimulus for growth with the LEAST amount of effort possible because then your recovery time is shorter and you can hit the gym again sooner. It also puts the least stress on your central nervous system, which is typically what gets "overtrained" if anything is going to.

If your calories are sufficient, and you're progressively increasing the weights you're lifting, don't you think you'd grow better hitting a bodypart 8 times in a month as opposed to 4?

Why are you better off hammering a bodypart into submission with a ton of sets to failure, only to need a week or longer to recover from the session? The most anabolic time for a muscle to grow is in the few days following the workout. Once these heightened state of anabolism dies, what's needed? More stimulus. What's the point of waiting another 3-4 days to hit the bodypart again? You're just missing out on growth time.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!...... a ton of great research is supporting the fact that the concept of "training to failure" or balls out as some would say, is FAR from the most efficient way to train. Bodybuilders are one of the only groups of elite athletes in the world that still manage to train this way. And how do they make up for the fact that their training methods are shit?...More drugs. I wish Madcow2 would say something on this thread concerning these methods, because he would own some shit real fast.....
 
Tweakle said:
I train 'muscle groups' 3 times every 2 weeks... but then I do 1-2 sets per area.

trying to do 5 x 5 on deads and squats twice a week is just dumb imo.. size follows strength and overtraining & overreaching prevents you from adding poundage to the bar. Staying ahead of your CNS by switching routines helps too I found

I don't train like pretty much anyone else here, so ymmv


If thats you in your avatar---your doing just fine..
 
Carth said:
Damn! How much is that going to cost?!

I have a top trainer working with me right now, and its not nearly as bad as you think, I will actually spend less this time around, as I wont have to use half as many drugs to grow as I have in the past
 
needsize said:
I have a top trainer working with me right now, and its not nearly as bad as you think, I will actually spend less this time around, as I wont have to use half as many drugs to grow as I have in the past
About how much does a trainer of that caliber charge per hour?And do they charge per hour?Dont have to give me exact numbers if you dont want bro just wondering what they charge ballpark figure.If they do charge per hour. ;)
 
JIMguy said:
EXACTLY!!!!!!!...... a ton of great research is supporting the fact that the concept of "training to failure" or balls out as some would say, is FAR from the most efficient way to train. Bodybuilders are one of the only groups of elite athletes in the world that still manage to train this way. And how do they make up for the fact that their training methods are shit?...More drugs. I wish Madcow2 would say something on this thread concerning these methods, because he would own some shit real fast.....

I believe this is something along the lines of what you're looking for: (I stole this off the training board from one of the links in the madcow's 5x5 thread)

Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training:

Note: first off, I'd like to thank AngelFace, JohnSmith, and Gavin for contributing to this article.

There are basically two accepted theories in the world of weight training. One is called Supercompensation (or Single Factor Theory), and the other is called the Fitness Fatigue Theory (or Dual Factor Theory). Bodybuilding tends to follow the Supercompensation way of thinking, while virtually every field of strength and conditioning, athletics, etc. follows the Dual Factor Theory. The reasoning that almost everyone involved in strength training adheres to the Dual Factor Theory is because there is scientific proof that it works, not to mention that the eastern bloc countries that have adhered to this theory have kicked America's ass at every Olympics since the 1950s.

Bodybuilding, for years, has basically ignored Dual Factor Theory and opted for Single Factor Theory training. In the following paragraphs, I hope to prove to you why Dual Factor Theory should be accepted, taught, and adhered to in the world of bodybuilding as well as all other athletes concerned with strength and conditioning.

Note: The one exception to the rule of "all bodybuilding programs based on Supercompensation" is Bryan Haycock's HST, which, from Bryan's own mouth, says that it wasn't based on dual factor theory, although he hit it dead-on, on all points. What I didn't care for personally with HST is that the same amount of importance is placed on the 15-rep phase and the negative rep phase as with the 10 rep and 5 rep phases. The thickness that rep ranges in the 3-8 range provide are far more impressive to me personally than those who focus on 12-15 rep schemes and countless negatives. I also wasn't excited about working the entire body in one workout. The CNS drain was unbelievable. – However, in saying that, HST is the best I've seen compared to everything else out there, and I did make good progress on it.

The Supercompensation Theory has been, in the bodybuilding community, the most widely accepted school of thought. However, people are beginning to see it as a bit too simplistic (the strength and conditioning and athletic movements have never accepted this practice). The theory itself is based on the fact that training depletes certain substances (like glycogen, and slowing protein synthesis). Training is seen as catabolic, draining the body of its necessary nutrients and fun stuff. So to grow, according to the theory, the body must then be rested for the appropriate/ optimal amount of time, AND, it (the body) must be supplied with all the nutrients it lost. If both of these things are done correctly, then theoretically your body will increase protein synthesis and store more nutrients than it originally had! (i.e. – your muscles will be bigger!)

So obviously the most important part of this theory is TIMING! (Specifically concerning the rest period). But that's where the problem comes in. "If the rest period was too short, then the individual would not be completely recovered and as such the training would deplete the substance even more, which over a period of time would result in overtraining and a loss of performance. If the rest interval were too long then the training would lose its stimulus property, and the individual would recover completely and lose the window of opportunity to provide the stimulus again. If the interval is optimal then improvements surely follow" (AF).

"So, given the one factor theory (Supercompensation), which looks at physical ability as, of course, one factor, you are left with the problem of timing workouts to correspond to the supercompensation wave... anything sooner or later will lead to a useless workout"(JS).

Another issue concerning the Supercompensation/ Single Factor Theory is that of FAILURE. Almost every program that utilizes this type of training advocates the use of muscle/ CNS failure, and then fully rest, and then beat the crap out of your muscles again, then rest, etc (I'm referring to the "work one bodypart per day, six days per week" program as well as HIT, popularized by Mike Mentzer). The issue is that it has now been proven that total failure is not necessarily needed for optimal growth. It has been shown that leaving a rep or two in the tank can and will yield the same results AND therefore a shorter rest period will be needed and less accumulation of fatigue will still be present by the time the next training session rolls around.

A Better Way…

The Dual Factor Theory, also called Fitness Fatigue Theory is somewhat more complex than the Supercompensation Theory. The theory is based on the fact that an individual's fitness and fatigue are totally independent of each other. This theory is entirely dependant on one's base conditioning (or physical preparedness or fitness). The thing is, when you have a high level of fitness (or conditioning/ preparedness) this level changes fairly slowly. This is because over the short term fitness does not fluctuate often. (However, fatigue can change (increase or decrease) fairly quickly when compared to fitness).

"The theory works like an equilibrium in that training will have an immediate effect on the body (similar to supercompensation). This effect is the combination of fatigue and gain (again, remember the equilibrium thing). So after a workout, because of the stimulus that training provides, preparedness/conditioning/fitness increases (gain) but at the same time will decrease due to fatigue from the training."

"So, the outcome of the training session is the result of both the positive and negative consequences of the training session. These two outcomes depend on time. By striking the correct balance, fatigue should be large in extent but short in how long it lasts. Gain on the other hand should be moderate, however, and is longer in duration. Typically the relationship is 1:3; if fatigue lasts x amount of time, then gain lasts 3x amount of time."

"Given the two factor theory, which separates physical fitness or preparedness and fatigue, you see that the timing of individual workouts is unimportant to long term gains (unlike Supercompensation)... in other words regardless of whether or not fatigue is or is not present, fitness can and will still be increased" (which is the goal)...

So what you get concerning the two-factor theory is a period of peaking fatigue (maybe 6 weeks), followed by a period of rest (maybe 2 weeks deloading, then one or two weeks of total rest). You view entire weeks and maybe months as you would have viewed just one workout with the single factor theory. For example, in the single factor theory, one workout represents a period of fatigue. But, in the two-factor theory, 6 weeks would represent a period of fatigue. In the single factor theory, a day or two (up to a week) represents a period of rest. But in the two-factor theory, up to four weeks may represent a period rest.

"What is important to note is there is almost universal agreement among scientists and athletes and coaches in all sports EXCEPT bodybuilding that the two factor theory is correct and the single factor theory is not correct and is in fact suitable only for beginners to follow when planning training."

"It is also important to note that most athletes in most sports are experiencing some level of constant fatigue ALWAYS, except for maybe a couple of weekends a year, when they are peaking. Training takes place daily against a backdrop of fatigue". Therefore, you should be able to see why, concerning the single factor theory, it would be very hard to ever fully recover, unless you sat on your ass for two weeks and did nothing."
 
gymratforlife said:
About how much does a trainer of that caliber charge per hour?And do they charge per hour?Dont have to give me exact numbers if you dont want bro just wondering what they charge ballpark figure.If they do charge per hour. ;)


800 to start, 200 per month, which includes 2 training session, u basicaly pay for work out plans, deit plans and body assessments, progress tracking and re modifying diets and training programs.,
 
Carth said:
Fuck it! 2 competitions. First one in the winter. Just to see who is the biggest and fatest! And then again in August. To see who looks more pretty! :qt:


lets do it!
but this winter ill be a big bear not a lean machine!
 
isn't it better to bulk at a reasonable bf like under 12 for a guy 16 for a girl, and just eat clean, do some cardio for good general health, then just make sure you are eating few calories above maintance, so that you dont lose....

I dont think walking up a flight of stairs should make you out of breath.. just my opinion...

I know 2 natural bodybuilders that follow that approach then just start cutting 10-12 weeks out from there competition.. both are huge dudes under 5"8 and one of them can do the full splits....

someone else told me that the "bulking diet" is just an excuse to be fat... and I think I am going to have to agree....

there isn't any good reason why you should not be able to gain lean mass with out putting on a ton of fat...
 
courtneybcca said:
isn't it better to bulk at a reasonable bf like under 12 for a guy 16 for a girl, and just eat clean, do some cardio for good general health, then just make sure you are eating few calories above maintance, so that you dont lose....

I dont think walking up a flight of stairs should make you out of breath.. just my opinion...

I know 2 natural bodybuilders that follow that approach then just start cutting 10-12 weeks out from there competition.. both are huge dudes under 5"8 and one of them can do the full splits....

someone else told me that the "bulking diet" is just an excuse to be fat... and I think I am going to have to agree....

there isn't any good reason why you should not be able to gain lean mass with out putting on a ton of fat...
I am an advocate of this aproach.Not to mention you feel like crap when you gain too much BF during bulking.Id rather keep it clean all year.
 
gymratforlife said:
I am an advocate of this aproach.Not to mention you feel like crap when you gain too much BF during bulking.Id rather keep it clean all year.

i have a friend who keeps it clean year long.
he's at around 9% all the time!

looks great...
but he doesnt gain much muscle as he follows your approach!

its simple and routine in the sport to bulk... then cut...

and when bulking, you WILL gain some fat.

so if you're modeling bulking isnt for you!
but if you're like me with plans to compete, staying clean year long simply isnt an option.

digest that for a bit..
 
gymratforlife said:
About how much does a trainer of that caliber charge per hour?And do they charge per hour?Dont have to give me exact numbers if you dont want bro just wondering what they charge ballpark figure.If they do charge per hour. ;)

the plan I am on charges by the month, $200
 
I'll tell you what! I don't think nobody gets more bigger and FATTER than what Needsize does when he is bulking. LOL
 
Carth said:
I'll tell you what! I don't think nobody gets more bigger and FATTER than what Needsize does when he is bulking. LOL

no doubt!!

but then he loses like 40 pounds in 5 minutes that bastard! :)


NEESIZE...

you agree about the 1 year plan?
id like to hear your take.
 
satchboogie said:
no doubt!!

but then he loses like 40 pounds in 5 minutes that bastard! :)


NEESIZE...

you agree about the 1 year plan?
id like to hear your take.

LOL NO SHIT!!!! I can just picture it. He comes out to his backyard. Has his picture taken all fucking fat and nasty. And then says...." honey...I"m going to take a nap to shed around 40lbs. Please wake me up in say....2 hours! Thanks!

And then comes out and takes another pic with 40lbs melted right off!!! Something in his sleep??? Hmmmmm Maybe this guy produces extremely high levels of GH during his naps?????
 
courtneybcca said:
isn't it better to bulk at a reasonable bf like under 12 for a guy 16 for a girl, and just eat clean, do some cardio for good general health, then just make sure you are eating few calories above maintance, so that you dont lose....

I dont think walking up a flight of stairs should make you out of breath.. just my opinion...

I know 2 natural bodybuilders that follow that approach then just start cutting 10-12 weeks out from there competition.. both are huge dudes under 5"8 and one of them can do the full splits....

someone else told me that the "bulking diet" is just an excuse to be fat... and I think I am going to have to agree....

there isn't any good reason why you should not be able to gain lean mass with out putting on a ton of fat...

Well said girlfriend, K to you !! You didn't answer me back yet by the way :)
 
courtneybcca said:
isn't it better to bulk at a reasonable bf like under 12 for a guy 16 for a girl, and just eat clean, do some cardio for good general health, then just make sure you are eating few calories above maintance, so that you dont lose....

The only problem with this approach is that some people really struggle to stay that "lean". If you're struggling worrying about your bodyfat too much during a bulk you might really be restricting potential mass gains.

So, I would say that approach is good for some people and not others. However, bulking is never an excuse to get fat. You should always be trying to maximize the amount of LBM:fat gained, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't allow yourself to gain "some" fat.
 
satchboogie said:
no doubt!!

but then he loses like 40 pounds in 5 minutes that bastard! :)


NEESIZE...

you agree about the 1 year plan?
id like to hear your take.
Im not saying to stay at single didgits all year.Maybe go up to 12-14% max when bulking then you dont have too work too hard in taking the fat off.Also your at an advantage as you dont have to kill yourself with the cardio and extreme dieting to take all the fat off.So in the long run I think it evens out.If you have less fat to take off your gona sacrifice less muscle when it comes to cutting time.Of course in order to gain muscle efficiently you have to sacrifice the abs but not get a full keg while your at it.I just think its healthier to put on minimal fat if you can. :Chef:
 
Borg4902 said:
You think you'll compete someday Satch?

YES BRO ABSOLUTELY!!!

in fact, ive never been so locked in on anything.
i have good genetics, all the gear within an armreach, and motivation/drive that wins!

keep in mind ive only been training for 2.5 years...
started at 180 pounds... approx same bodyfat as now.. maybe 11% or so.

and in 2.5 years gained about 40 pounds.
sure my cycles have been heavy, and i dont mind taking a beating admitting to have used well over 1g juice per cycle.

so in all, i think i have what it takes to get up to competition level.
ill give it all i got this coming year and if god has a plan for me to compete so shall it be.
 
Borg4902 said:
Thats ausome bro, im 9 days out from my first comp, pretty sure it will be my last as well.

good luck bro!
your pics from last week are impressive!

if you need last minute prep tips, hit up JENETIC!
the dude knows his shit!

KARMA TO YOU!
 
plan looks okay in some respects, it is well thought out
but that being said, if your goals are to put as much mass on as possible in that much time, I would switch things up.
Personally I would spend the year bulking, and dont worry about bodyfat until its all over. I would keep your bulking diet somewhat in check though, to make sure your bf levels dont get out of control.
It also depends on how bad you want the size over this next year, and if you would be willing to stay on the whole time, and if not, keep your pct periods to sort of a minimum levels
 
satchboogie said:
jay cutler also trains 2x per day!!!!
watch his dvd's and learn.

thanks brotha..
He NEVER did that when he was your size. You should drop the 2x per day, Remember....
Lift Big,
Eat Big,
Get Big.
 
Last I read u weren't going to use anything but primo and winny cos u were worried about the health risks? Change of plan? lol.
 
DMI said:
Last I read u weren't going to use anything but primo and winny cos u were worried about the health risks? Change of plan? lol.

and when was this thread started? :rolleyes:
 
superqt4u2nv said:
So what is he progress weight up? Weight down? Where is the bodyfat at? Still training twice a day? If you're gonna bump this at least give us an update :qt:

actually, work has been super busy lately, so im no longer training 2x per day.
but 5-6 workouts per week as usual, and making great progress!

ill post pics later in the month..
 
satchboogie said:
actually, work has been super busy lately, so im no longer training 2x per day.
but 5-6 workouts per week as usual, and making great progress!

ill post pics later in the month..
So you growing on training only once a day? If so TOLD YOU SO ;)

Looking forward to the pics. :)
 
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