1-ad...?

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Your #2 answer gave me the answer to what I was going to ask.I was curious why this stuff seems to give so many folks prostate trouble.Too bad there isn't a way to slightly tweak it's molecular structure so that it's not compatible with 5-alpha-reductase,but keeps it's anabolic properties.Then we could try it in insane amounts to see how well it stacks up to other AAS.

 

[da big thinker]

The studies were done on rats and published years ago. They were published in the journal of medicinal chemistry and the journal of organic chemistry. There was also biological data on this compound published in Steroids and Arzneimittel Forshung and maybe one other journal but i don't recall the name offhand.

The compound never made it to market probably because it did not have as favorable an anabolic/androgenic ratio as was desired by pharamaceutical companies at the time. It has a ratio of about 2. The burning effect on mucous membranes may also have been a factor.

interesting nevertheless...something new to research perhaps!

69muscle,
once again,my post was intended at the clerk behind the counter;as you stated,your dbol cycle is presently kicking your ass w/ results right?---that's my POINT(everyone knows that dbol works,not only w/ rats but humans as well)---and just cause a compound is "legal" doesn't make it any better to use...you can still suffer negative side effects w/ this compound,especially since it converts to DHT...just look at Big Andy's comments...in addition,ephedra is another "legal" compound and yet I got no sides at all w/ clen and much more results...---fyi

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Hey Pat, At least you got the Gear heads listening to you now instead of shooting down 1-AD so fast.

I have always enjoyed reading Mr.Arnolds contributions.I think if anyone out there can get the supplement industry respect,it is probably him.I think the 'instant-bash-pro-hormone-response' comes from folks who have used certain products in the past,spent a lot of money in the process,and were very disappointed with the results.Personally,I used androsol by the truckload when it first came out,and I could not believe how disappointing the results were with it.Ironically enough,prior to that,I used Substrate Solutions 4-diol at about 4 times the recommended dosage and saw some VERY nice strength gains and a hardening effect and tightening of the skin.It was however, MUCH more costly than running a cycle of anabolics,so my pocket-book dictated further experimentation.

 

[TheFng]

PA wrote:
OK, I am an idiot. This is patrick, not ergogal. I forgot to switch over to my identity on the computer. No, i did not get a sex change

You seem to do this quite often. Computers are cheap, buy one for the girlfriend and this wont happen anymore.

 

[pa1ad]

Your #2 answer gave me the answer to what I was going to ask.I was curious why this stuff seems to give so many folks prostate trouble.Too bad there isn't a way to slightly tweak it's molecular structure so that it's not compatible with 5-alpha-reductase,but keeps it's anabolic properties.Then we could try it in insane amounts to see how well it stacks up to other AAS.

Actually its does not convert to DHT via 5AR, it converts via some sort of 1,2-reductase. If I could draw chemical structures here I would be able to illustrate this more clearly

The studies done years past that measured urinary metabolites of 1-test showed large recovery of DHT metabolites (ring A 5alpha saturated androgens), so it is not disputable whether this 1,2-reduction occurs.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Actually its does not convert to DHT via 5AR, it converts via some sort of 1,2-reductase. If I could draw chemical structures here I would be able to illustrate this more clearly

The studies done years past that measured urinary metabolites of 1-test showed large recovery of DHT metabolites (ring A 5alpha saturated androgens), so it is not disputable whether this 1,2-reduction occurs.

With that in mind,how would one protect the prostate?Is there any substances out there that block off 1,2?

 

[pa1ad]

With that in mind,how would one protect the prostate?Is there any substances out there that block off 1,2?

I don't think anyone has ever studied or characterized a 1,2-reductase, at least not in humans. 1,2 unsaturated steroids are very rare in mammals, although microbes seem to make them pretty easily. All we know is that the 1,2 double bond of 1-test and 1-AD is definitely reduced in-vivo by some sort of process.

Besides, 1-test may act to stimulate the prostate directly because it is a very strong androgen. I am not sure that conversion to DHT is even necessary for it to stimulate prostate growth.

You should realize that prostate growth directly resulting from androgens in a healthy prostate is NOT the same thing as growth related to benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH). BPH is characterized by growth of different parts of the prostate than normal growth, and it can occur in environments of relatively low androgen concentration.

Any non-BPH (akin to normal developmental) growth that may occur during a cycle should reverse itself after stopping the androgens. Keep in mind also that many epidemiological studies have indicated that androgens appear NOT to be a causative factor in prostate cancer.

So just carry a pee bucket to bed with you

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

"So just carry a pee bucket to bed with you"...LOL!Mr. Arnold,I hope you will post a little more regularly on the A-board.I know you're a busy man,but we can all learn from your knowledge and perhaps explore into new frontiers together.Thanks for everything you've done for the bodybuilding world.

 

[TheBear]

Pat, I have stopped the 1-AD about a month ago and I still pee more frequently at night than normal. How long does it take to FULLY recover the prostate effects? I am getting a little worried. I will admit that it is not as bad now, but I am not 100% yet...

 

[cockdezl]

"I don't think anyone has ever studied or characterized a 1,2-reductase, at least not in humans. 1,2 unsaturated steroids are very rare in mammals, although microbes seem to make them pretty easily. All we know is that the 1,2 double bond of 1-test and 1-AD is definitely reduced in-vivo by some sort of process. "

Any possibility this may be due to entero-hepatic recycling?