1-ad...?

[da big thinker]

Walked into a supp shop and the guy behind the counter asked if I had heard of this supp...!Also advised me that this compound is seven times more potent that TEST...Yes...you heard me...that's what he said.Can someone advise me what the hell this "fruit" is talking about...?He also stated that he gained a solid 10 lbs to his 150 lb frame...hehehe

 

[Willyumyum]

If it's 10 times more anabolic than test how come his physique isn't as perfect as greg kovacs? Any supplement company claiming their product to be any times more anabolic than testosterone should be slapped in the face with one of those hot mops, covered int tar, that they use for roofing, 'cause it's bullshit... I mean the guy behind the counter with his 150 pound frame says it all.. lol...

YUM

 

[Dr.X]

BS....However, it IS 10X more expensive than test. I think it's around $50 for a 10-14 day supply.

 

[da big thinker]

If it's 10 times more anabolic than test how come his physique isn't as perfect as greg kovacs? Any supplement company claiming their product to be any times more anabolic than testosterone should be slapped in the face with one of those hot mops, covered int tar, that they use for roofing, 'cause it's bullshit... I mean the guy behind the counter with his 150 pound frame says it all.. lol...

YUM

i hear ya brother...perhaps his 10 lb increase was due to the fact that he actually ATE food?hehehe

 

[da big thinker]

BS....However, it IS 10X more expensive than test. I think it's around $50 for a 10-14 day supply.

what's up w/ that?he advised me that it would cost 130 CDN ...for a little fucker he had alot of guts quoting a price like that...i advised him i'll stick to sust....i mean protein...lmao

 

[nautica]

Hahahahahhahahahhahahah You got to be kidding me.

You guys got to stop with the jokes.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

As I understand it, 1-AD and 4-AD are "grey market" -- I'm not sure how effective they are orally, but I read an article where a guy had gotten his hands on some pure 4-AD powder (which is supposedly better than 1-AD) and used a kit to transform it into an injectible. I can't remember his injection schedule, but it was pretty frequent. He reported that he got good results from it. That's about all I know. Cost is pretty high. Not very interesting at this point to me.

 

[mvmaxx]

1-AD is a supplement and you'll get more information on the "supplements" board than the "anabolics" board.

 

[da big thinker]

1-AD is a supplement and you'll get more information on the "supplements" board than the "anabolics" board.

thx for clearing that one up...---well,i guess i assumed that since it's 7 times more potent than TEST,it belongs on the anabolic board...

 

[BiggerAndy69]

1-Ad may have more sides than real test. The owner of my gym recently tried it. He stopped once his balls shrunk. I read about a guy on AF who pied in a cup and let it sit. (Urination was painful for him.) Chucks of white powder set at the bottom. My friend tried it, same thing happened.

 

[jstrong20]

BS....However, it IS 10X more expensive than test. I think it's around $50 for a 10-14 day supply.

I beleive you hit the nail on the head with that statement.

 

[3Vandoo]

WHAT supplement shops?

Bugs? Fitness Nutrition?

 

[mvmaxx]

thx for clearing that one up...---well,i guess i assumed that since it's 7 times more potent than TEST,it belongs on the anabolic board...

LOL - wasn't trying to be a smartass. well....maybe a little
It's just posts like this will always get torn apart on the anabolics board by "experts" who've never used the stuff. I just figured you may get some advice from people who've actually used the stuff on the supps board.

 

[da big thinker]

WHAT supplement shops?

Bugs? Fitness Nutrition?

bingo...first one bro...

 

[3Vandoo]

HAHAHAHAHA

I dont know what happened to that place but since 3 years now, price are shitty and
service is fuck

I remember when Giovanni was manager there, great price, good service

now I dont even go there.

Does Spinelli still there?

Ah shit I remember the members card giving discount. LOL

good ole time

 

[pa1ad]

If it's 10 times more anabolic than test how come his physique isn't as perfect as greg kovacs? Any supplement company claiming their product to be any times more anabolic than testosterone should be slapped in the face with one of those hot mops, covered int tar, that they use for roofing, 'cause it's bullshit... I mean the guy behind the counter with his 150 pound frame says it all.. lol...

YUM

My company sells 1-AD and that is not what we claim about our product at all. What we claim (and this is substantiated in the literature) is that 1-AD converts to a hormone that is over 7 times as anabolic as testosterone. In other words, it takes a dose 1/7th as great as a dose of testosterone to impart a given degree of anabolism. This claim is quite valid.

If the guy behind the counter wants to fuck up the facts then that is no fault of ergopharm

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Now,if we could just get Mr. Arnold to switch over to the dark side and start making us some human grade oral turinabol and furazabol,he would be the god of hard-core enthusiasts.

 

[da big thinker]

My company sells 1-AD and that is not what we claim about our product at all. What we claim (and this is substantiated in the literature) is that 1-AD converts to a hormone that is over 7 times as anabolic as testosterone. In other words, it takes a dose 1/7th as great as a dose of testosterone to impart a given degree of anabolism. This claim is quite valid.

If the guy behind the counter wants to fuck up the facts then that is no fault of ergopharm

o.k...what hormone would that be then?and no offense to you bro,i'm just going w/ what the guy behind the counter told me...funny sh*t...

 

[BigAndy69]

I've got to say that I've seen people make great strength gains on ergo's 1-ad but the side effects are quite harsh, and it's more expensive than roids.

It would be stupid to use this in Canada since it is classified as a steroid anyway.

 

[da big thinker]

ditto bro...

 

[mvmaxx]

My sister's husband's friend's dentist's dog's owner said that HE HEARD from his best friend's wife's uncle that this stuff does nothing but give you sides and doesn't work at all.

Actually both my workout partner and I used 1-AD for a period of about 6 weeks. The "sides" included increased strength <+60lbs on bench>, increased mass <+18lbs in 5 weeks> and joint relief <my workout partner had a tough time going beyond 225 on bench because of his shoulder and was repping 315 by the end>.

My point is people are so damn quick to bag on shit they've never used. My workout partner had done andro cycles before and never felt anything. He was amazed at how well the 1-AD worked.

The only drawback I found was a lower libido and my nuts did shrink a little but I'd expect that from any kind of gear or non-gear that shuts down your natural test as it produces test in your body, or injecting it straight using gear. After a few weeks off things went back to normal. If I knew it was going to have such a dramatic effect I prolly would've used clomid.

And btw, da big thinker - the person who replied to your post was Patrick Arnold himself - the organic chemist who discovered both andro and nor-andro and knows more about hormones and gear than you and I will in a lifetime.

 

[ErgoGal]

Now,if we could just get Mr. Arnold to switch over to the dark side and start making us some human grade oral turinabol and furazabol,he would be the god of hard-core enthusiasts.

If this stuff were legal to do then I would have no problem doing it. Its just that leading a life of paranoia and secrecy is not particularly appealing to me at 35 years old

 

[ErgoGal]

o.k...what hormone would that be then?and no offense to you bro,i'm just going w/ what the guy behind the counter told me...funny sh*t...

5alpha-androst-1-en-17beta-ol-3-one

 

[ErgoGal]

5alpha-androst-1-en-17beta-ol-3-one

OK, I am an idiot. This is patrick, not ergogal. I forgot to switch over to my identity on the computer. No, i did not get a sex change

 

[da big thinker]

My sister's husband's friend's dentist's dog's owner said that HE HEARD from his best friend's wife's uncle that this stuff does nothing but give you sides and doesn't work at all.

Actually both my workout partner and I used 1-AD for a period of about 6 weeks. The "sides" included increased strength <+60lbs on bench>, increased mass <+18lbs in 5 weeks> and joint relief <my workout partner had a tough time going beyond 225 on bench because of his shoulder and was repping 315 by the end>.

My point is people are so damn quick to bag on shit they've never used. My workout partner had done andro cycles before and never felt anything. He was amazed at how well the 1-AD worked.

The only drawback I found was a lower libido and my nuts did shrink a little but I'd expect that from any kind of gear or non-gear that shuts down your natural test as it produces test in your body, or injecting it straight using gear. After a few weeks off things went back to normal. If I knew it was going to have such a dramatic effect I prolly would've used clomid.

And btw, da big thinker - the person who replied to your post was Patrick Arnold himself - the organic chemist who discovered both andro and nor-andro and knows more about hormones and gear than you and I will in a lifetime.

listen bro...with all due respect to Patrick Arnold,my point was that the claims made by the "fruit" behind the counter were silly to say the least...7 times more potent than TEST?that is one stupid ass remark...and you don't need to be a bio-chemist to figure this one out...lol!i did not bag this shit as you state...i would not be asking about it if were close minded...AND I AM NOT...beleive me.IMHO,i just find that for the price,i would rather stick to something like sust,cyp,etc...i react well to it.in addition,
you gained +18 lbs in 5 weeks...?if so,why do you still require the aid of steroids?with those kind of accomplishments,i would just stick to 1-ad...hey,you found your miracle worker...those are some astonishing gains...---fyi

 

[da big thinker]

5alpha-androst-1-en-17beta-ol-3-one

thx for the response...any studies to show how effective this compound is...?in other words,does ergopharm have some back up to validate these claims...?

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Bill Roberts and Chris Shugart on 1AD (this is the same thing we're discussing, right?) (from a T-mag interview, so take it with a grain of salt...)


Chris: Now what about that 1-androstenedione and 1-androstenediol stuff?

Bill: Okay, now at least we have a case of someone that’s trying to deliver something good!

These are prohormones, though ineffective ones, of 17beta-hydroxy-androst-1-ene-3-one, or Androst-1-ene for short. This is a very cool steroid, if you get enough of it in the system. It’s two or three times as potent as Testosterone, but it doesn’t convert to estrogen or DHT. And it’s a legal, natural product. Androst-1-ene is really the premier Class I legal steroid.

This, by the way, is the same thing that others are calling "1-Testosterone," not because it actually is any such thing, but because it's a name that has tremendous marketing appeal, so I suppose being wrong and deceptive is considered irrelevant.

These "1" compounds you mention were potentially interesting because they have some conversion to Androst-1-ene. If you had a very high rate of conversion, then these compounds could be nice products. Or if they were themselves inherently active, not needing conversion to help build muscle, again they could be good products. But that's not the case.

1-Androstenedione has no inherent activity, and only a poor conversion to Androst-1-ene. 1-Androstenediol is a better compound, but still is found to have only moderate potency, less than half that of 4-AD. Obviously not much converts; you don’t get much Androst-1-ene in the system, and it can’t have much inherent potency either, if any. In any case, it’s not very effective.

 

[pa1ad]

thx for the response...any studies to show how effective this compound is...?in other words,does ergopharm have some back up to validate these claims...?

The studies were done on rats and published years ago. They were published in the journal of medicinal chemistry and the journal of organic chemistry. There was also biological data on this compound published in Steroids and Arzneimittel Forshung and maybe one other journal but i don't recall the name offhand.

The compound never made it to market probably because it did not have as favorable an anabolic/androgenic ratio as was desired by pharamaceutical companies at the time. It has a ratio of about 2. The burning effect on mucous membranes may also have been a factor.

 

[pa1ad]

Chris: Now what about that 1-androstenedione and 1-androstenediol stuff?

Bill: Okay, now at least we have a case of someone that’s trying to deliver something good!

These are prohormones, though ineffective ones
of 17beta-hydroxy-androst-1-ene-3-one, or Androst-1-ene for short. This is a very cool steroid, if you get enough of it in the system. It’s two or three times as potent as Testosterone, but it doesn’t convert to estrogen or DHT. And it’s a legal, natural product. Androst-1-ene is really the premier Class I legal steroid.

This, by the way, is the same thing that others are calling "1-Testosterone," not because it actually is any such thing, but because it's a name that has tremendous marketing appeal, so I suppose being wrong and deceptive is considered irrelevant.

These "1" compounds you mention were potentially interesting because they have some conversion to Androst-1-ene. If you had a very high rate of conversion, then these compounds could be nice products. Or if they were themselves inherently active, not needing conversion to help build muscle, again they could be good products. But that's not the case.

1-Androstenedione has no inherent activity, and only a poor conversion to Androst-1-ene. 1-Androstenediol is a better compound, but still is found to have only moderate potency, less than half that of 4-AD. Obviously not much converts; you don’t get much Androst-1-ene in the system, and it can’t have much inherent potency either, if any. In any case, it’s not very effective.

1) 1-test is 2-3 times as potent as testosterone propionate. It is 7 times as potent as testosterone. You must compare free steroids against free steroids and esters against esters. Roberts should know this

2) It definitely converts to DHT. Roberts did not do his homework at all. Either that or he lied on this to promote the product

3) There is no such classification as "Class I" for anabolic steroids

4) Obviously he has no idea of the difference between formal IUPAC names and trivial names or trademark names. What kind of anal dweeb would pick on someone for nomenclature?

5) 1-AD is definitely more potent than 4-AD. This is blatantly obvious to those who have used both products

6) From feedback on the boards from uses I would suggest that 1-test is only marginally more potent than 1-AD. Therefore 1-AD conversion is probably very high

 

[69Muscle]

Hey Pat, At least you got the Gear heads listening to you now instead of shooting down 1-AD so fast.

BTW guys, I've done 3 cycles of 1-AD, 4-AD and strength was great, IMO have clomid for post cycle and you'll be fine. Take about 2-3 weeks to feel it's full effects. Appitite will be though the roof as well.

And so I don't look like a suck ass, my dbol cycle is way better then 1-AD... but I think everyone here knows that and has no delusions that 1-AD will be as effective as a 17-A oral roid.

IMO it's a great "legal" choice.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Your #2 answer gave me the answer to what I was going to ask.I was curious why this stuff seems to give so many folks prostate trouble.Too bad there isn't a way to slightly tweak it's molecular structure so that it's not compatible with 5-alpha-reductase,but keeps it's anabolic properties.Then we could try it in insane amounts to see how well it stacks up to other AAS.

 

[da big thinker]

The studies were done on rats and published years ago. They were published in the journal of medicinal chemistry and the journal of organic chemistry. There was also biological data on this compound published in Steroids and Arzneimittel Forshung and maybe one other journal but i don't recall the name offhand.

The compound never made it to market probably because it did not have as favorable an anabolic/androgenic ratio as was desired by pharamaceutical companies at the time. It has a ratio of about 2. The burning effect on mucous membranes may also have been a factor.

interesting nevertheless...something new to research perhaps!

69muscle,
once again,my post was intended at the clerk behind the counter;as you stated,your dbol cycle is presently kicking your ass w/ results right?---that's my POINT(everyone knows that dbol works,not only w/ rats but humans as well)---and just cause a compound is "legal" doesn't make it any better to use...you can still suffer negative side effects w/ this compound,especially since it converts to DHT...just look at Big Andy's comments...in addition,ephedra is another "legal" compound and yet I got no sides at all w/ clen and much more results...---fyi

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Hey Pat, At least you got the Gear heads listening to you now instead of shooting down 1-AD so fast.

I have always enjoyed reading Mr.Arnolds contributions.I think if anyone out there can get the supplement industry respect,it is probably him.I think the 'instant-bash-pro-hormone-response' comes from folks who have used certain products in the past,spent a lot of money in the process,and were very disappointed with the results.Personally,I used androsol by the truckload when it first came out,and I could not believe how disappointing the results were with it.Ironically enough,prior to that,I used Substrate Solutions 4-diol at about 4 times the recommended dosage and saw some VERY nice strength gains and a hardening effect and tightening of the skin.It was however, MUCH more costly than running a cycle of anabolics,so my pocket-book dictated further experimentation.

 

[TheFng]

PA wrote:
OK, I am an idiot. This is patrick, not ergogal. I forgot to switch over to my identity on the computer. No, i did not get a sex change

You seem to do this quite often. Computers are cheap, buy one for the girlfriend and this wont happen anymore.

 

[pa1ad]

Your #2 answer gave me the answer to what I was going to ask.I was curious why this stuff seems to give so many folks prostate trouble.Too bad there isn't a way to slightly tweak it's molecular structure so that it's not compatible with 5-alpha-reductase,but keeps it's anabolic properties.Then we could try it in insane amounts to see how well it stacks up to other AAS.

Actually its does not convert to DHT via 5AR, it converts via some sort of 1,2-reductase. If I could draw chemical structures here I would be able to illustrate this more clearly

The studies done years past that measured urinary metabolites of 1-test showed large recovery of DHT metabolites (ring A 5alpha saturated androgens), so it is not disputable whether this 1,2-reduction occurs.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Actually its does not convert to DHT via 5AR, it converts via some sort of 1,2-reductase. If I could draw chemical structures here I would be able to illustrate this more clearly

The studies done years past that measured urinary metabolites of 1-test showed large recovery of DHT metabolites (ring A 5alpha saturated androgens), so it is not disputable whether this 1,2-reduction occurs.

With that in mind,how would one protect the prostate?Is there any substances out there that block off 1,2?

 

[pa1ad]

With that in mind,how would one protect the prostate?Is there any substances out there that block off 1,2?

I don't think anyone has ever studied or characterized a 1,2-reductase, at least not in humans. 1,2 unsaturated steroids are very rare in mammals, although microbes seem to make them pretty easily. All we know is that the 1,2 double bond of 1-test and 1-AD is definitely reduced in-vivo by some sort of process.

Besides, 1-test may act to stimulate the prostate directly because it is a very strong androgen. I am not sure that conversion to DHT is even necessary for it to stimulate prostate growth.

You should realize that prostate growth directly resulting from androgens in a healthy prostate is NOT the same thing as growth related to benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH). BPH is characterized by growth of different parts of the prostate than normal growth, and it can occur in environments of relatively low androgen concentration.

Any non-BPH (akin to normal developmental) growth that may occur during a cycle should reverse itself after stopping the androgens. Keep in mind also that many epidemiological studies have indicated that androgens appear NOT to be a causative factor in prostate cancer.

So just carry a pee bucket to bed with you

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

"So just carry a pee bucket to bed with you"...LOL!Mr. Arnold,I hope you will post a little more regularly on the A-board.I know you're a busy man,but we can all learn from your knowledge and perhaps explore into new frontiers together.Thanks for everything you've done for the bodybuilding world.

 

[TheBear]

Pat, I have stopped the 1-AD about a month ago and I still pee more frequently at night than normal. How long does it take to FULLY recover the prostate effects? I am getting a little worried. I will admit that it is not as bad now, but I am not 100% yet...

 

[cockdezl]

"I don't think anyone has ever studied or characterized a 1,2-reductase, at least not in humans. 1,2 unsaturated steroids are very rare in mammals, although microbes seem to make them pretty easily. All we know is that the 1,2 double bond of 1-test and 1-AD is definitely reduced in-vivo by some sort of process. "

Any possibility this may be due to entero-hepatic recycling?

 

[pa1ad]

"I don't think anyone has ever studied or characterized a 1,2-reductase, at least not in humans. 1,2 unsaturated steroids are very rare in mammals, although microbes seem to make them pretty easily. All we know is that the 1,2 double bond of 1-test and 1-AD is definitely reduced in-vivo by some sort of process. "

Any possibility this may be due to entero-hepatic recycling?

I don't think so because a much larger portion of the 1-test (majority of it) gets reduced than you would expect from this route alone (which is a very minor physiological pathway). Good thinking though to suggest this

 

[notpuff]

Hey pat your a great chemist im sure you could discover a roid legal to sell thats not on the DEA'S list , just gota watch the impurities , like dihidro-stanazolol or dihydro-deca or something