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Primo/Test/Var

joshuaua

New member
Need some imput, some dosing help and pct recommendations.

I'm about to start a new cycle.
I'm 5'8 210 lbs. 23 years old. Been lifting for about 5 years.
My goals are to cut as much bodyfat as possible. I'll be running,liftin, dieting. Like is necessary.

I've done a winstrol only cycle, and a test only cycle....

What i'd like to do is this:

1-4= primo-500 mg's wk.
test- 350 mg's wk.
4-12= Primo- 500 or 600 mg's wk.
test- 350-400 mg's wl.
Anavar- 40 for weeks 4-5, 60 for weeks 5-6, then to 80 for weeks 6-12.

PCT= no fucking clue because primo doesn't convert and same with anavar i believe. so i'm not sure what and how much would be required.


help me out.
Thanks.
 
Need some imput, some dosing help and pct recommendations.

I'm about to start a new cycle.
I'm 5'8 210 lbs. 23 years old. Been lifting for about 5 years.
My goals are to cut as much bodyfat as possible. I'll be running,liftin, dieting. Like is necessary.

I've done a winstrol only cycle, and a test only cycle....

What i'd like to do is this:

1-4= primo-500 mg's wk.
test- 350 mg's wk.
4-12= Primo- 500 or 600 mg's wk.
test- 350-400 mg's wl.
Anavar- 40 for weeks 4-5, 60 for weeks 5-6, then to 80 for weeks 6-12.

PCT= no fucking clue because primo doesn't convert and same with anavar i believe. so i'm not sure what and how much would be required.


help me out.
Thanks.


If you're 5'8 and 210 you're either a big dude or your BF is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too high...my guess is the latter. Do you know your BF% and can you post your diet and training routine....and any supps you're taking...

Cycle is too complicated, when you're ready pick a dose and roll with it...

PCT? Right here:

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/very-best-pct-2010-right-here-712121.html

However it appears you need to get your diet and training in check before anything....

~EZ
 
I'm 5'8 210 lbs. 23 years old. Been lifting for about 5 years.
My goals are to cut as much bodyfat as possible. I'll be running,liftin, dieting. Like is necessary.
.

i know this is not want what you want to hear but you should of done what you wrote above already BEFORE jumping on a cycle.

get your diet in check before anything. and at your age your bf% should be under 12% no excuses.. even under 10% is doable.

i think ur bf is 20-25% based on those stats unless you have an amazing amount of muscle mass.

I'm shorter then you and i have a shitload of muscle mass and I weigh 185.

i want u to do fasted cardio and clean up your diet. no dairy, fats, sugars, white flour. and drink a ton of water. do that for 6 months and you will be golden
 
well i walked around between 190-205 for the last year or two. then stopped working out for a few months and partied and didn't care about diet all summer. so i put on about 10 pounds or so since the start of summer. I was around 10% before the summer tho when i was at that lighter weight. But I find that i tend to naturally carry around more bodyfat then the average guy, or atleast i can gain it very easily and lose it vrey difficultly. That's what's got my frustrated enough to go all out on a cutting cycle, with primo and var i'll be dropping some cash. i'm aware that the primo is a rip off tho, but that's ok, aslong as it's somehwat similar. but i've started my new training schedule which will be 5 days on weights, 3 days of running around 4km. but running 15 minutes on the other days. the diet will be the best diet i've ever had. as of yet i don't have specifics for what i'll be eating and when, but it'll be completely clean. the odd cheat day, and to be honest, i'm gunna drink every now and then, but this summer consisted of completely eating whatever i wanted. but i'd say my bodyfat is around 15-16% right now. i've got good size on me. i've always been big for my age all through highschool. arms are close to 17-18 inches. so i'm not all that small, but not exactly huge. i'll be getting of all carbs after 3pm. during the workout. and the carbs that i do consume will be good rices ie. basmati, and the odd pasta. subway is my kille tho, so i'll have to cut that out. i'll be getting two shakes in a day, for supps, as well as no-explode to help with possible lethargy for pre-workout, if i notice joint problems i'll take something. i may buy some milk thistle.

i know i shouldve figred the pct out first, i know that that's the cardinal rule. i just know this cycle will take me pretty close to christmas so i figured i can get this figured out over the next few weeks. maybe order part of the pct with the next order of more gear. etc., gunn ahave to ge tsome propecia too, baldness runs in the fam and i'm freaking
 
You need to be way more disciplined before even thinking about AAS.....at least 1 year with a strict diet and training schedule, THEN you can THINK ABOUT using AAS


~EZ
 
You need to be way more disciplined before even thinking about AAS.....at least 1 year with a strict diet and training schedule, THEN you can THINK ABOUT using AAS


~EZ

True stuff there.
ASS should be used to finish off the perfect diet and excerise routines. Not to help you get started.

Harry
 
nor did i say it was a magic pill... working out is a life long lifestyle, sometimes you take a month off or two for rest. i just happened to do some partying during the summer when i took that break. good lord.
 
i'm just hoping to get my self back into good shape before christmas, why can i not use gear to do this but all of you can? hear comes the typical pile on posts.
 
as well since when is a cutting cycle NOT for losing bodyfat to get in better shape? i'm not a competitor, so cutting is for getting in better shape? i'm not out of shape, i'm just not where i was a few months ago, big deal.
 
We're not trying to be mean dude; you asked your questions and you got your answers....and the right answers, do with them what you will....

~EZ
 
1) I don't jump on AAS until I am in the shape to use it well. You are not. Get back into the gym and bust your ass getting back to where you were before you "partied" then when you hit a brick wall, then think of AAS. I don't just use when I fell like it - most guys on here cycle 1 to 2 times a year, and take time planning the cycle and WORKING up to the cycle. READ some the posts on here and you will here people planning a cutter in say december, and you can read how they are busting their ass in the gym trying to shave off every ounce they can BEFORE they start the cycle.

What is your BF%?
 
post some pics my friend, it would help a lot.. .... on paper you are overweight at your height and weight.. just sayin.

yes partying and drinking will pile on the fat and water weight bigtime. you can totally go from a beach body to fat very quickly.

get back into shape first or your cycle will be dissapointing! you should be in your prime when you go on a cycle, not just coming back after months of partying to get solid results.
 
no i totally understand what you guys are saying, but i just thnk you have me all wrong. i haven't ballooned out of shape in the slightest. i've just put on a bit of bodyfat. physiques are often an up and down thing by times. regardless of what you guys say, i'll have this stuff in a few days and i'll be starting it, so i'm just looking for some advice in regards to proper dosing and such. i think i've got the right dosage amounts so i'm just looking for verification. also i know what to take for pct, i'm just wondering if nolva is enough. since primo and var are DHT they don't convert to estrogen so simply nolva should suffice? this site has a gay rule that doesn't allow you to post links or photos til you've had 25 posts...which i don't have yet. so you can look up my bodyspace page, my user name as joshleb.
 
Reaaallllllllly trying not to be a prick but for the love of God, why do you keep asking the same question expecting a different answer?

You're not going to get advise on dosages cuz you shouldn't be using anything....If told you I had a rifle & ammo and was getting ready to go up in a clocktower and what's the best way to start picking people off, what would you tell me?

Do what you're gonna do...

~EZ
 
dude, what are you talking about? i'm probly like 16 or 17 % BF right now...big deal? is that grosely out of shape? take alook at my bodyspace and talk 5-7% body fat on that and tell me if that's grossly out of shape. good lord.

i'll be dieting incredibly strict, and running daily. don't question how seriously i'll take this.
 
anyways, i know the dosing is good for the cycle due to a slew of research i've done. do you guys think nolva alone is good since the primo and var don't aromatize?
 
Im chuckling at a few things....first unless someone has issues health wise and I realize everyone is different genetically, unless your training age (ie how many years you have been training hard, serious, strict, straight) is super high and you have hit some plateau, why people juice in their early 20s seems comical to me...you should still be pretty freaking primed hormone and nervous system wise to make some seriuos killer gains...I dont know if tons of people just have sh$tyy genetics on here, but the huge amount of people that seem very young (younger than 25 say to throw out a general #), makes me wonder what the hell is going on....even with beating myself up big time overtraining, not sleeping enough due to work schedules and life issues, I still was making sweet gains into my late 20s...albeit I was over my peak probably as far as pure raw power in the olympic lifts and traditional "power lifts" which is kinda a play on words because the O-lifts are really the "power" lifts and the big three "powerlifts" are really strength lifts...anyways, in some form or fashion if you learn more about training, diet, recovery techniques (not just more rest, but active recovery, soft tissue work, foam rolling, etc etc etc), and proper supplementation you can squeeze a lot of good stuff out of your body...if you juice "too early" you might be robbing yourself of bigger gains when needed further down the road and you really are tapped out as far as making gains....

Second, I do think its funny after being around competitive athletes all my life, to think that 5'8 and 210 is "huge".....walk into any Division One weight room in the country and you will see herds of dudes that size and they are the "small" guys!!! Dont get me wrong the running backs and d-backs that may be in that size range are beefy dudes and usually lean as hell, lean as hell, and usually well proportioned upper and lower body, as well sprinters, field event athletes, hockey players, wrestlers, and other sports probably slipping my mind...those guys are low body fat too... 5'8 is kinda short in the sports world at certain levels, but 210 at 5'8 wouldnt be "huge" by any stretch....

Oh, I do not know many athletes who take 1 or 2 months off just for the hell of it....that would drive most athletes I know insane, as people who love training you have to fight to keep them out of the gym when they are injured or overtrained or need rest....I dont know much about bodybuilding but Id imagine guys are the same way there too, addicted to the iron....that strikes me odd you are so serious about hitting the bean but you also live a casual lifestyle where taking 2 months off to party seems "normal"......normal for a non athlete or non bodybuilder maybe...
 
Im chuckling at a few things....first unless someone has issues health wise and I realize everyone is different genetically, unless your training age (ie how many years you have been training hard, serious, strict, straight) is super high and you have hit some plateau, why people juice in their early 20s seems comical to me...you should still be pretty freaking primed hormone and nervous system wise to make some seriuos killer gains...I dont know if tons of people just have sh$tyy genetics on here, but the huge amount of people that seem very young (younger than 25 say to throw out a general #), makes me wonder what the hell is going on....even with beating myself up big time overtraining, not sleeping enough due to work schedules and life issues, I still was making sweet gains into my late 20s...albeit I was over my peak probably as far as pure raw power in the olympic lifts and traditional "power lifts" which is kinda a play on words because the O-lifts are really the "power" lifts and the big three "powerlifts" are really strength lifts...anyways, in some form or fashion if you learn more about training, diet, recovery techniques (not just more rest, but active recovery, soft tissue work, foam rolling, etc etc etc), and proper supplementation you can squeeze a lot of good stuff out of your body...if you juice "too early" you might be robbing yourself of bigger gains when needed further down the road and you really are tapped out as far as making gains....

Second, I do think its funny after being around competitive athletes all my life, to think that 5'8 and 210 is "huge".....walk into any Division One weight room in the country and you will see herds of dudes that size and they are the "small" guys!!! Dont get me wrong the running backs and d-backs that may be in that size range are beefy dudes and usually lean as hell, lean as hell, and usually well proportioned upper and lower body, as well sprinters, field event athletes, hockey players, wrestlers, and other sports probably slipping my mind...those guys are low body fat too... 5'8 is kinda short in the sports world at certain levels, but 210 at 5'8 wouldnt be "huge" by any stretch....

Oh, I do not know many athletes who take 1 or 2 months off just for the hell of it....that would drive most athletes I know insane, as people who love training you have to fight to keep them out of the gym when they are injured or overtrained or need rest....I dont know much about bodybuilding but Id imagine guys are the same way there too, addicted to the iron....that strikes me odd you are so serious about hitting the bean but you also live a casual lifestyle where taking 2 months off to party seems "normal"......normal for a non athlete or non bodybuilder maybe...
It's called being lazy. Unless you have low test or some other issue, using AAS when young, strapping, and still below your natural weight, is being lazy.
 
It's called being lazy. Unless you have low test or some other issue, using AAS when young, strapping, and still below your natural weight, is being lazy.

Welcome to 95% of the population...

~EZ
 
You guys are probably right....I think Ive heard numbers like only 5% of the population actually pushes themselves beyond the norm and 95% of folks would rather coast, do the minimal to get by, punch the clock, etc....why I seem to forget that everyday and place my expectation upon others I dont know ha, I should know better!!
 
i'm 23, not 19, i pay no attention to those ages and just click away to get signed up. i'm not interested in waiting til i'm almost 30. i'm in my early twenties...i'd like to compete in amateur bodybuilding, get lots of chicks etc. i take my lifting more serious then any person i know, that's why i was that guy that was bigger and stronger then anyone in my highschool. that's who i was. but now my priorities are pretty much women, and bodybuilding as far as my working out. so i'm not gunna go all natty..i'd like to put on a lot of size to that i'm big, ripped, intimidating, girls like my physique etc. this may get me hate, but it's the motivatin of plenty of people on here aswell who are my age. i don't wanna be 28, and be only a decent bit bigger then i am now. while it's very possible to be in great ripped shape naturally, it's just much more convenient to bust your ass off while nto natty and literally shave years off your progress and look freaky. so lay off a bit guys.
 
i'm 23, not 19, i pay no attention to those ages and just click away to get signed up. i'm not interested in waiting til i'm almost 30. i'm in my early twenties...i'd like to compete in amateur bodybuilding, get lots of chicks etc. i take my lifting more serious then any person i know, that's why i was that guy that was bigger and stronger then anyone in my highschool. that's who i was. but now my priorities are pretty much women, and bodybuilding as far as my working out. so i'm not gunna go all natty..i'd like to put on a lot of size to that i'm big, ripped, intimidating, girls like my physique etc. this may get me hate, but it's the motivatin of plenty of people on here aswell who are my age. i don't wanna be 28, and be only a decent bit bigger then i am now. while it's very possible to be in great ripped shape naturally, it's just much more convenient to bust your ass off while nto natty and literally shave years off your progress and look freaky. so lay off a bit guys.

Dude, this board is about helping people, we are not trying to criticize...you sound a little immature to be running juice from your above posts...
 
Dude, this board is about helping people, we are not trying to criticize...you sound a little immature to be running juice from your above posts...

immature to take steroids based on me not getting any help on here and being pissed about that?
ugh.

i just went and posted my question on , got plenty of responses. everyone on here just looks to flame. if there's one thing that someone disagrees with, it's flame time. i see NOTHING, wrong with me looking to run this cycle at all.
 
i'm 23, not 19, i pay no attention to those ages and just click away to get signed up. i'm not interested in waiting til i'm almost 30. i'm in my early twenties...i'd like to compete in amateur bodybuilding, get lots of chicks etc. i take my lifting more serious then any person i know, that's why i was that guy that was bigger and stronger then anyone in my highschool. that's who i was. but now my priorities are pretty much women, and bodybuilding as far as my working out. so i'm not gunna go all natty..i'd like to put on a lot of size to that i'm big, ripped, intimidating, girls like my physique etc. this may get me hate, but it's the motivatin of plenty of people on here aswell who are my age. i don't wanna be 28, and be only a decent bit bigger then i am now. while it's very possible to be in great ripped shape naturally, it's just much more convenient to bust your ass off while nto natty and literally shave years off your progress and look freaky. so lay off a bit guys.


You sound like a legend in your own mind...what did being bigger and stronger than anyone else in high school get you? Are you sure you were really the biggest baddest dude in your high school? Were you an athlete that got all the chicks, and got yourself a full ride to an outstanding college to play a sport and get an education to improve your life long term? Plenty of college athletes are big and/or shredded, get tons of girls, and could kick much a$$ backing up their ego.....plus they dont need to talk about how cool they are (at least the mature ones)...sign up for some MMA classes before your mouth ends up writing a check your a$$ cant cash...Im sure some football player, hockey player, serious MMA guy, or wrestler would just love to meet a guy like you runing your mouth about how intimidating you are in a bar and beat you silly in front of all the hot chicks...

I dont know you from Adam, so Im just basing my sarcasm on my past experience of being a little older than you, and knowing the kinds of guys who need to talk similar as you have in your post...

At your age if you are dialed in with nutrition, supplementation, recovery strategies, if you take lifting "more serious than any person I know", you should still be making sick gains unless your genetics suck.
 
You need to stop bitching and crying dood. We can help people with the right frame of mind.
 
You sound like a legend in your own mind...what did being bigger and stronger than anyone else in high school get you? Are you sure you were really the biggest baddest dude in your high school? Were you an athlete that got all the chicks, and got yourself a full ride to an outstanding college to play a sport and get an education to improve your life long term? Plenty of college athletes are big and/or shredded, get tons of girls, and could kick much a$$ backing up their ego.....plus they dont need to talk about how cool they are (at least the mature ones)...sign up for some MMA classes before your mouth ends up writing a check your a$$ cant cash...Im sure some football player, hockey player, serious MMA guy, or wrestler would just love to meet a guy like you runing your mouth about how intimidating you are in a bar and beat you silly in front of all the hot chicks...

I dont know you from Adam, so Im just basing my sarcasm on my past experience of being a little older than you, and knowing the kinds of guys who need to talk similar as you have in your post...

At your age if you are dialed in with nutrition, supplementation, recovery strategies, if you take lifting "more serious than any person I know", you should still be making sick gains unless your genetics suck.

whaaaat? i was pointing out that i take my training seriously in reference to people trying to say i'm not ready because i don't take my training seriously since i took a few months off training during the summer. good lord. and i've done mma for years. and i've never been "ripped". it's very tough for me to be that way naturally because of my bodytype/metabolism. but i didn't play football or anything..i did for one year. played baseball for a few years. YOU strike me as the typical tough guy you're trying to call me. good god ahah
 
You need to stop bitching and crying dood. We can help people with the right frame of mind.

my frame of mind is fine. read the whole thread...i''m trying to respond to people not helping me or responding to the question i asked and who are just flaming me. if i defend myself then that means my "frame of mind" is questionable?

man i'm just looking for some help or input on the questions i asked, not peoples critical opinions and shit, i'm going to what i feel, so just gimme some help and input, don't flame. it brings these boards down a notch. i mean if you don't want to help me, then why respond?
 
I will help you. Look at my other posts. There is always some young punk who comes in here acting like this.
Guess what? In 03' I was a year younger than you and I came in here with a bad attitude too. I will read over your post.
 
repost your cycle with your doseages the same throughout.

i see no problem with my attitude, i posted something asking for help and got shit on from 50 different people. but hey, i appreciate that you'll actually adress what i'm asking. i'll just copy and paste what i posted on cause i've dumped the primo and switched it for tren. i'm ready for the sides...i've experienced most of them through clenbuterol already. also i'll be saving myself like $800 and gaining a bunch more results.


Hey guys, been lifting 5 years, 5'8 210, around 15% bodyfat.

ten week cycle

1-10 test prop 500mg's wk
1-7 tren Ace- 50ED
6-10 anavar

PCT

My questions are this, should i run the var for the last four weeks? Is this DHT overkill with the tren? I just don't wanna stop the tren and then have bloat from test only through the end of the cycle.

ALSO, with this cycle, should i run both hcg and Arimidex? and would Clomid at say 80,50,50 suffice? Thanks guys. This is my 3'rd cycle BTW, and at 350mg/'s wek of tren, i'm prepared for the sides...i've used clen before so i'm used to sweats and no sleep.
 
i see no problem with my attitude, i posted something asking for help and got shit on from 50 different people. but hey, i appreciate that you'll actually adress what i'm asking. i'll just copy and paste what i posted on cause i've dumped the primo and switched it for tren. i'm ready for the sides...i've experienced most of them through clenbuterol already. also i'll be saving myself like $800 and gaining a bunch more results.


Hey guys, been lifting 5 years, 5'8 210, around 15% bodyfat.

ten week cycle

1-10 test prop 500mg's wk
1-7 tren Ace- 50ED
6-10 anavar

PCT

My questions are this, should i run the var for the last four weeks? Is this DHT overkill with the tren? I just don't wanna stop the tren and then have bloat from test only through the end of the cycle.

ALSO, with this cycle, should i run both hcg and Arimidex? and would Clomid at say 80,50,50 suffice? Thanks guys. This is my 3'rd cycle BTW, and at 350mg/'s wek of tren, i'm prepared for the sides...i've used clen before so i'm used to sweats and no sleep.

Shut the hell up with the bitching!'It is nreally distracting for people to help you. You sound like my GF. I'm gonna actually take a look now.
 
i see no problem with my attitude, i posted something asking for help and got shit on from 50 different people. but hey, i appreciate that you'll actually adress what i'm asking. i'll just copy and paste what i posted on cause i've dumped the primo and switched it for tren. i'm ready for the sides...i've experienced most of them through clenbuterol already. also i'll be saving myself like $800 and gaining a bunch more results.


Hey guys, been lifting 5 years, 5'8 210, around 15% bodyfat.

ten week cycle

1-10 test prop 500mg's wk
1-7 tren Ace- 50ED
6-10 anavar

PCT

My questions are this, should i run the var for the last four weeks? Is this DHT overkill with the tren? I just don't wanna stop the tren and then have bloat from test only through the end of the cycle.

ALSO, with this cycle, should i run both hcg and Arimidex? and would Clomid at say 80,50,50 suffice? Thanks guys. This is my 3'rd cycle BTW, and at 350mg/'s wek of tren, i'm prepared for the sides...i've used clen before so i'm used to sweats and no sleep.

First off tren is actually worse than clen for sides. Get prepared to stare at the ceiling or sleep like shit.
Gains are the best and it's honestly worth a shot.
Anavar does not convert to DHT and I have no idea what you really mean by DHT overload anyway. If anything running a DHT derivative like winny or mast will help with the tren bloat/gyno. Use the HCG as the final ester clears your body and then start PCT. Use the arimidex throughout your cycle and even your post cycle as well. Clomid is crap, use nolva if you want to use a serm. A great post cycle supp is hcgenerate which I do reccomend. If you get acne you can try acnetame as it is quite effective and if you need a potent thermogenic adderllin is as strong as they come.
 
Also... cabergoline is something you wanna get as well. With anavar you don't have to run it at the end if you don't want to and going up to 6 weeks on that oral is okay in my book for a healthy person.
 
First off tren is actually worse than clen for sides. Get prepared to stare at the ceiling or sleep like shit.
Gains are the best and it's honestly worth a shot.
Anavar does not convert to DHT and I have no idea what you really mean by DHT overload anyway. If anything running a DHT derivative like winny or mast will help with the tren bloat/gyno. Use the HCG as the final ester clears your body and then start PCT. Use the arimidex throughout your cycle and even your post cycle as well. Clomid is crap, use nolva if you want to use a serm. A great post cycle supp is hcgenerate which I do reccomend. If you get acne you can try acnetame as it is quite effective and if you need a potent thermogenic adderllin is as strong as they come.

ya i'm ready for the sleep shit..i'l try and shoot as soon as i wake up.

anavar is derrived from DHT.
also i'm pretty sure that i've read in a bunch of threads that nolva fucks you up with tren...
 
Also... cabergoline is something you wanna get as well. With anavar you don't have to run it at the end if you don't want to and going up to 6 weeks on that oral is okay in my book for a healthy person.

to be honest, here in canada ...especially the part of canada i'm from it's hard to get alot of the stuff you mentioned...we're not very close to mexico... so honestly i'll probably only be able to find HCG and arimidex if i'm lucky. so that'll probably be all i can run...what dose would you recommend running both of these at? tren is a different animal for me, so i'm somewhat uncertain about alot of things.
 
You've done winny only and test only. You're not ready for tren. You have no idea about tren.

And the reason you are getting hit so hard is that you always have a counter-argument against everyone's post. That makes everyone not want to help.
 
I dont know where else to post this, Id like to start a thread but dont know how... so since this guy had the same basic idea for a cycle as Im considering for my early spring cycle (Im currently on my 5th week of a standalone Test 250 cycle, goin GREAT!) Ill put it here. Ive always been the guy that knows where to get about anything, but with the steroids this is not the case and it drives me CRAZY to not be able to find what I want. I dont mention this because I am looking for a source... although I am, that is not what Im doing here. I want to establish EXACTLY what my cycle is going to be before I start trying to find products. Also, is it okay for me to ask people's opinion on what brands to seek out? I dont know how this factors into the no sources policy of this board - it would seem if Brand X makes a better test than brand Y it should not be unethical to say so! If I am overstepping my bounds with any of this, let me know...

I want to run Primo, EQ, or both. Since they seem to accomplish the same thing I dont know if they run well together... a lot of people tend to put them on the same cycle but it seems counter intuitive. Also, I DONT want to run an insanely long test cycle, but want max results from the Primo/EQ so is it okay to start the Primo before the test by several weeks? FYI Im not scared of needles, I actually love to inject, but I dont want to do it all the time. 2 or 3 times a week probably max unless there is a GREAT reason to do otherwise. Here is kind of what Im thinkin, I would welcome an expert's advice. All I know is what I have learned through private research and these boards!!!

Week:
 
YOU strike me as the typical tough guy you're trying to call me. good god ahah

:-) Hardly, too old for that sh$t and too wise to know the difference between talking and doing....

Ive hung around a lot of "tough guys" in sports and other fields where winning and losing is alot more than whats on the scoreboard, and those who truly are "intimidating" if you actually knew what their backgrounds or experience indicated, do not have that as a goal...frankly the exact opposite demeanor, those who are strong can afford to be gentle and kind...usually someone hooting and hollering or talking up a big game isnt anyone you worry about in a street fight, its the quiet guy with the cold calm stare not saying a word...

Those who train for performance are often not thinking about how big or intimidating they will look, they are trying to accomplish other goals...which thankfully when you are training hard for power and anaerboic sports, you often end up looking pretty darn good if your diet isnt horrific....and many friends of mine who used to do the bodybuilding type thing with lots of steady state cardio, end up trying out training like an athlete for 2-3 months, and gaining the size they were looking for while dropping bodyfat (naturally). ie doing a dynamic warmup, full body or upper/lower body splits incorporating big lifts in the rack and O-lifts and variations on the platform, followed by some push pull supersets of compound movements, maybe a quick circuit of strongman or med ball drills, and polished off with interval training...

Dude I wish you the best truly....there are some seriously smart folks on here, seriously smart and well experienced....If your shopping for someone to affirm exactly what you want to hear, then you can switch forums until you find what you want....if your truly looking for experienced guys in AAS, THIS is the place to be...I like a few other boards, but this is the one I most frequent because Im a newbie to AAS and these guys seem to be the most experienced, most knowledgable, AND most truly interested in helping people...
 
you've done winny only and test only. You're not ready for tren. You have no idea about tren.

And the reason you are getting hit so hard is that you always have a counter-argument against everyone's post. That makes everyone not want to help.

+1
 
sorry, you are right drop the nolva. Honest mistake sorry. You switched it around last second and confused me bro. I still hate clomid.
 
Primo/Test/Var is probably the only gear I will ever do again with exception to Masteron. There is nothing negative about this cycle and I love the strength, hardness, and overall good feeling it provides. It makes me look big and lean with no bloat, yea! Granted you shouldn't be doing a cycle like this until you already look decent with your bodyfat in check.

Next blast is:
Test 400mg wk
Primo 500mg wk
Var 60mg ed last 6-7 weeks
Going for 5'10'', 215lbs @ 6-8%bf, currently 210lbs @ 10-11%bf
 
i'm 23, not 19, i pay no attention to those ages and just click away to get signed up. i'm not interested in waiting til i'm almost 30. i'm in my early twenties...i'd like to compete in amateur bodybuilding, get lots of chicks etc. i take my lifting more serious then any person i know, that's why i was that guy that was bigger and stronger then anyone in my highschool. that's who i was. but now my priorities are pretty much women, and bodybuilding as far as my working out. so i'm not gunna go all natty..i'd like to put on a lot of size to that i'm big, ripped, intimidating, girls like my physique etc. this may get me hate, but it's the motivatin of plenty of people on here aswell who are my age. i don't wanna be 28, and be only a decent bit bigger then i am now. while it's very possible to be in great ripped shape naturally, it's just much more convenient to bust your ass off while nto natty and literally shave years off your progress and look freaky. so lay off a bit guys.

Man... No offense to the shorter guys on here, or really to you either joshuaua, but this shit just LOOKS like it was written by a guy thats 5'8 or less, if you know what I mean. It doesnt exactly take Dr. Phil to see that you have some serious image issues to adress that lifting isnt gonna help... bigger and stronger than anyone in your highschool? Really? In the first place, your 23... Im 24, so I know how far from highschool we are - it doesnt even apply! Plus I dont know where your from or how big your school was, but there were 770 people in my class. I was a 6', 220lb All State strong safety for two years of highschool... at one of the best football schools in one of the biggest football states in the country, and I dont pretend I was the biggest or strongest guy at my school by any means.

I'll admit, in highschool that shit gets you laid, but everyone, including girls, forgets it after the last game is played, then you have to rely on your personality (and looks) to get girls. And bro, I dont think that a guy thats 2-3" shorter than your average male and plays baseball is gonna be the guy everyone is scared of or intimidated by unless you pull guns out a lot... I played baseball to get a BREAK from strenuous sports, and I was a catcher - really the only truly physical position you can play! If you wanna get laid, then work on that conversatin' game, your body will catch their eye if its on point but a needle isnt gonna get you bitches, except the occasional REALLY drunk or superficial one that is probably goin home with someone every night anyway and just happened to pick you cause the bar is bout to close... and has a pussy full of diseases to give you! Not to sound like your dad or older brother, but no matter how physically attracted to you she might be at first its the impression you make once you meet a girl that matters - you want to come across as intelligent, quick to laugh and joke, witty, confident, and self assured... not arrogant, loud and desperate to impress! I know eveyone's been on your shit here, so maybe thats why you seem so defensive and insecure (am I right?), but either way you come across as incredibly insecure. Im not sayin YOU are this guy, but the personality your PUTTING OUT HERE is that of someone that gets mouthy as shit when theyre drunk and always tries to fight at the bar to prove they arent scared. Usually they are! If its not you then disregard this, if it is you then I bet your friends HATE it when you get drunk!

You mention that you want to be able to intimidate people... If you weigh 210 lbs at 10% BF... or even 15... regardless of your height (you should look HUGE being 5'8 210 unless its fat) and this is an issue for you it must not be your body that people arent scared of... so maybe like ol' boy suggested - take some classes in MMA or Boxing, its fun as shit and you wont have to worry about scareing people cause you can just take care of them if they cross the line or try to fuck with you, then you dont look like the asshole at the bar thats always mouths off or is trying to fight everyone... your just the guy they whisper about when you walk in the night after you beat that dudes ass in the parking lot of your regular neighborhood bar so bad the ambulance came, when nobody had ever even heard you raise your voice in anger before. THAT guy gets a whole lot more respect. I dont mean to preach, but there is something about your attitude that makes you sound like your just a year or two out of highschool and maybe just need some guidance? haha I dont know man, but best of luck to you.

And as far as holding off on the juice, think of it this way... would you rather put a supercharger on a stock engine in an old muscle car, or would you rather first rebuild that engine, have it bored, balanced, and blueprinted, all the heads are ported and polished, all the worn parts rebuilt... THEN add the supercharger? If you waste your AAS cycle getting back to where you were, then where are you gonna go from there? Im younger than they reccomend to start AAS by about a year, so I feel ya about not wanting to wait till your late 20s. That said, consider that that the success of the cycle is only going to be dependant upon the body that it is run through, so get your body in top shape then just fuckin KILL IT when you cycle!!! Dont use it to make it easier to get back to baseline then be goin through PCT by the time your where you should be starting off at! Sorry for the long post, and its not personal man... Just bored at work and had to throw my opinion in!
 
And as far as the advice I gave (without being asked, I know) on females... Ive gotten pussy with all physiques... I was sellin a TON of drugs (not this kind) and partyin all the time after highschool for years, I got up to about 230 (I have actually weighed 242 before, just for a few days though!), and as far as my physique at that time... well, you could tell I USED to look good, but used to doesnt cut it. It was harder to catch a girls eye, but once she let me buy her a drink 7 times out of 10 Id at least get a number, and probably 4 out of 10 I was gettin laid. So its not about your body. I spent from December of 08 until the end of 09 working my ass off... naturally, completely... until I had burned off all the body fat I felt I absolutly had to (got down to about 10%) but by that point I weighed about 180, and thats skinnier than I like to be or have ever been. As a side note, the pussy was way easier to get at 180 than 230, but was not a problem at either weight.... anyway, so I start lifting a lot more and reducing cardio, but kept my diet to about 1200 cals/ED and started getting some real hard muscle but wasnt really getting stronger or losing fat. Then a buddy offered me some 'roids. No brainer... I turned em down. Didnt even ask what they were cause I didnt care and didnt know the difference from one to the other anyway. This was in July. I changed my mind a week later, bought 10ml of Test E and 10ml of Test C (all he had), and put them in my safe and started reading everything I could. Finally, I learned enough that I was ready to begin a cycle, so FINALLY, in the second week of August, on Friday the 13th, I pinned for the first time. I weighed 177.2 that day, and last night I weighed 194.6, with no body fat increase noticable, although I imagine I have gained a % or two that just isnt showing in the mirror. The moral of this second post? First - if you cant get laid without being a perfect physical specimen then you need to adress that seperately and second - just cause you WANT to be ready to go on cycle doesnt mean you are, and that can be some of the hardest news to accept. BTW... If this is about pussy, you might wanna take it down some on your desired body image. Ask around, and by that I mean ask GIRLS... females are gonna go for a guy that looks like he is built big, hard, proportionate and lean over a hulk, blown up, stereotypical "roided out" lookin guy. Once again, just my 2 cents...
 
Man... No offense to the shorter guys on here, or really to you either joshuaua, but this shit just LOOKS like it was written by a guy thats 5'8 or less, if you know what I mean. It doesnt exactly take Dr. Phil to see that you have some serious image issues to adress that lifting isnt gonna help... bigger and stronger than anyone in your highschool? Really? In the first place, your 23... Im 24, so I know how far from highschool we are - it doesnt even apply! Plus I dont know where your from or how big your school was, but there were 770 people in my class. I was a 6', 220lb All State strong safety for two years of highschool... at one of the best football schools in one of the biggest football states in the country, and I dont pretend I was the biggest or strongest guy at my school by any means.

I'll admit, in highschool that shit gets you laid, but everyone, including girls, forgets it after the last game is played, then you have to rely on your personality (and looks) to get girls. And bro, I dont think that a guy thats 2-3" shorter than your average male and plays baseball is gonna be the guy everyone is scared of or intimidated by unless you pull guns out a lot... I played baseball to get a BREAK from strenuous sports, and I was a catcher - really the only truly physical position you can play! If you wanna get laid, then work on that conversatin' game, your body will catch their eye if its on point but a needle isnt gonna get you bitches, except the occasional REALLY drunk or superficial one that is probably goin home with someone every night anyway and just happened to pick you cause the bar is bout to close... and has a pussy full of diseases to give you! Not to sound like your dad or older brother, but no matter how physically attracted to you she might be at first its the impression you make once you meet a girl that matters - you want to come across as intelligent, quick to laugh and joke, witty, confident, and self assured... not arrogant, loud and desperate to impress! I know eveyone's been on your shit here, so maybe thats why you seem so defensive and insecure (am I right?), but either way you come across as incredibly insecure. Im not sayin YOU are this guy, but the personality your PUTTING OUT HERE is that of someone that gets mouthy as shit when theyre drunk and always tries to fight at the bar to prove they arent scared. Usually they are! If its not you then disregard this, if it is you then I bet your friends HATE it when you get drunk!

You mention that you want to be able to intimidate people... If you weigh 210 lbs at 10% BF... or even 15... regardless of your height (you should look HUGE being 5'8 210 unless its fat) and this is an issue for you it must not be your body that people arent scared of... so maybe like ol' boy suggested - take some classes in MMA or Boxing, its fun as shit and you wont have to worry about scareing people cause you can just take care of them if they cross the line or try to fuck with you, then you dont look like the asshole at the bar thats always mouths off or is trying to fight everyone... your just the guy they whisper about when you walk in the night after you beat that dudes ass in the parking lot of your regular neighborhood bar so bad the ambulance came, when nobody had ever even heard you raise your voice in anger before. THAT guy gets a whole lot more respect. I dont mean to preach, but there is something about your attitude that makes you sound like your just a year or two out of highschool and maybe just need some guidance? haha I dont know man, but best of luck to you.

And as far as holding off on the juice, think of it this way... would you rather put a supercharger on a stock engine in an old muscle car, or would you rather first rebuild that engine, have it bored, balanced, and blueprinted, all the heads are ported and polished, all the worn parts rebuilt... THEN add the supercharger? If you waste your AAS cycle getting back to where you were, then where are you gonna go from there? Im younger than they reccomend to start AAS by about a year, so I feel ya about not wanting to wait till your late 20s. That said, consider that that the success of the cycle is only going to be dependant upon the body that it is run through, so get your body in top shape then just fuckin KILL IT when you cycle!!! Dont use it to make it easier to get back to baseline then be goin through PCT by the time your where you should be starting off at! Sorry for the long post, and its not personal man... Just bored at work and had to throw my opinion in!

Amen to all the content in this post....funny yet totally on point in a very nice and non-confrontational manner.
 
Man... No offense to the shorter guys on here, or really to you either joshuaua, but this shit just LOOKS like it was written by a guy thats 5'8 or less, if you know what I mean. It doesnt exactly take Dr. Phil to see that you have some serious image issues to adress that lifting isnt gonna help... bigger and stronger than anyone in your highschool? Really? In the first place, your 23... Im 24, so I know how far from highschool we are - it doesnt even apply! Plus I dont know where your from or how big your school was, but there were 770 people in my class. I was a 6', 220lb All State strong safety for two years of highschool... at one of the best football schools in one of the biggest football states in the country, and I dont pretend I was the biggest or strongest guy at my school by any means.

I'll admit, in highschool that shit gets you laid, but everyone, including girls, forgets it after the last game is played, then you have to rely on your personality (and looks) to get girls. And bro, I dont think that a guy thats 2-3" shorter than your average male and plays baseball is gonna be the guy everyone is scared of or intimidated by unless you pull guns out a lot... I played baseball to get a BREAK from strenuous sports, and I was a catcher - really the only truly physical position you can play! If you wanna get laid, then work on that conversatin' game, your body will catch their eye if its on point but a needle isnt gonna get you bitches, except the occasional REALLY drunk or superficial one that is probably goin home with someone every night anyway and just happened to pick you cause the bar is bout to close... and has a pussy full of diseases to give you! Not to sound like your dad or older brother, but no matter how physically attracted to you she might be at first its the impression you make once you meet a girl that matters - you want to come across as intelligent, quick to laugh and joke, witty, confident, and self assured... not arrogant, loud and desperate to impress! I know eveyone's been on your shit here, so maybe thats why you seem so defensive and insecure (am I right?), but either way you come across as incredibly insecure. Im not sayin YOU are this guy, but the personality your PUTTING OUT HERE is that of someone that gets mouthy as shit when theyre drunk and always tries to fight at the bar to prove they arent scared. Usually they are! If its not you then disregard this, if it is you then I bet your friends HATE it when you get drunk!

You mention that you want to be able to intimidate people... If you weigh 210 lbs at 10% BF... or even 15... regardless of your height (you should look HUGE being 5'8 210 unless its fat) and this is an issue for you it must not be your body that people arent scared of... so maybe like ol' boy suggested - take some classes in MMA or Boxing, its fun as shit and you wont have to worry about scareing people cause you can just take care of them if they cross the line or try to fuck with you, then you dont look like the asshole at the bar thats always mouths off or is trying to fight everyone... your just the guy they whisper about when you walk in the night after you beat that dudes ass in the parking lot of your regular neighborhood bar so bad the ambulance came, when nobody had ever even heard you raise your voice in anger before. THAT guy gets a whole lot more respect. I dont mean to preach, but there is something about your attitude that makes you sound like your just a year or two out of highschool and maybe just need some guidance? haha I dont know man, but best of luck to you.

And as far as holding off on the juice, think of it this way... would you rather put a supercharger on a stock engine in an old muscle car, or would you rather first rebuild that engine, have it bored, balanced, and blueprinted, all the heads are ported and polished, all the worn parts rebuilt... THEN add the supercharger? If you waste your AAS cycle getting back to where you were, then where are you gonna go from there? Im younger than they reccomend to start AAS by about a year, so I feel ya about not wanting to wait till your late 20s. That said, consider that that the success of the cycle is only going to be dependant upon the body that it is run through, so get your body in top shape then just fuckin KILL IT when you cycle!!! Dont use it to make it easier to get back to baseline then be goin through PCT by the time your where you should be starting off at! Sorry for the long post, and its not personal man... Just bored at work and had to throw my opinion in!

honestly bro i get what you're saying but i think you've got me a bit wrong. i was jsut that guy that people didn't want to fuck with, i'm not saying this to impress you or anything, that's jsut me responding to what you said about me, had nothing to do with playing baseball or anything..i just took my fitness serious all through highschool... and as for you recommending me taking fighting..i do, have, and get my shti in all the time. I have NO friends who i've ever seen lose a fight.. and neither have i due to my training...forwhatever it's worth in this post lol. but i can get laid through more then physique, i just don't approach many girls, i just chill at the clubs..wait for them to come to me mostly. way she goes. what these people don't get on these boards is that i'm not a guy debating first trying juice, i've done it several times, so noones about to discourage me, i can handle ALL sides of sleep deprivation and sweats etc. i jsut can. i'm focused on the goal and don't let that shit bug me. so people should just help me by answering my questions , not by passively aggresively picking fights on here with me.
 
you should send an application in for Jersey Shore or whatever it is called on MTV...you seem like a perfect fit
 
I finally "bit the bullet" and tried AAS this year. I'm 39.

I'm using 100mgs test prop/ 200mgs Primo a week and 20mgs oxandralone/day for three weeks, then half that for four weeks.

I'm not doing it to get huge.

I'm not doing it to get ripped.

I'm not doing it to intimidate people.

I'm doing it so I can play sports more due to enhanced recovery.

The libido boost is nice, too, so I suppose I'm also doing it to get laid...more.

However, and your age you're just plain cheating. Mostly, you're cheating yourself out of learning how to make your body do what you want it to do.

My friends and I used to enjoy outperforming steroid users in our twenties. I had three friends my size ( middleweight) that tried the drugs and their results were no better than mine, and I was stronger, leaner, and I'm in much better shape ten years later.

The real secrets to bodybuilding are diet and exercise. Most bodybuilders love to exercise, and therefore exercise too much.

The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet works wonders, even at my age and without drugs. I have do e many different variations but this one makes me get ripped AND blow up like a balloon:

7 days zero carbs. During this phase, all I worry about is getting 1g protein per pound of bodyweight. I usually eat lean cuts of beef deep fried in peanut oil. I have had people literally scream at me saying this is dangerous and won't work but the blood tests and results say otherwise.
I've tried different lenghts of time fro 5-15 days without carbs, 7 works best.

7 days maximum carbs. I usually get lean with a CKD before "bulking up" with a 'get big drink' I discovered that there is a rapid weight gain the first 7 days after ketosis (10lbs!) but after that the gains slow way down and is half fat.

If you decide to try this, make sure to read labels on everything. Only 12-15g of carbs per diem will keep you out of ketosis, which means you'll simply have low blood sugar and feel like hell. The first 48 hours is the hardest. You'll need some ketostix to know if you're in ketosis. You'll also want to take vitamins and fiber capsules.

For the carb up, I like to mix 200g whey with milk, corn syrup, ice cream, peanut butter, and a banana. Think 3000 calories a day plus meals. One week only. Fat starts to come back after 7 days.

As for training, do circuit style training to burn fat, but for building muscle stick to a basic full body routine centered around the squat.

For example:

3 sets, 12 reps:

standing press
pullup
bench press
row
dip
curl

One set, 20 reps squat. For a guy your size the goal weight is 315. Then do a light set of pullovers to stretch
One set, 15 reps deadlift. Another light pullover set.

You can do a couple ab exercises after this, keep it short.
Do lots of moderate pace cardio on the zero carb week.

Why don't you give this a try? The results are quick. It creates a natural anabolic state.

You just don't need AAS at your age. Get to know your body, then you'll know when it's time for some help. That should only be when you've really gone as far as you can on your own.

You'll be way happier at Forty if you do.
 
Like I said, I was just sayin how your comin across... I dont know you ,and Id be defensive too if everybody was jumpin my shit for just askin a question, thats why I kept sayin if Ive got your personality wrong then dont bother listening to what Im sayin... But I can guaruntee everyone else on here is getting the same impression of you and, well - its always easier to be an asshole TO an asshole, and thats why people are treating you so shitty, ya know? But at the same time, a lot of the advice (not the flames) your getting your basically saying you dont like, then you ask the question again.... I guess until you get the answer you want? It doesnt sound like your gonna get it, so if your sure about what you want to do then fuck what everybody else says and do what you want - dont even ask for advice after you keep getting the SAME answer, several people agreeing with that answer, and it still isnt good enough. The truth is you really arent looking for advice, just validation. Your not going to get it here, but if your confident enough in your own decision making then dont waste your time asking for advice you dont really want. And dont be surprised if everything turns out just like these guys are saying, but if they were wrong come back on here and tell em so when your cycles over. The way they see it, your asking a nuclear weapons engineer to tell you the safest way to disarm a nuclear bomb... if someone put a gun to their head they could come up with an answer that would be the "best" way for an unqualified person to do it, but the truth is if your not qualified your not qualified, there arent different degrees of wrong, and what your tryin to do just shouldnt be done, period. If you wanna give it a shot though, thats how most people 25 or 35 years ago were doin it anyway - trial and error and no access to experienced advice or nationwide forums and discussion boards of accomplished and experienced experts like we have today. It didnt work the best though. And I dont think anybody has implied you cant handle any physical side effects, they are just saying A) your going to be surprised by how different these are vs what you have experienced in the past and B) They dont think the toll on your body is worth it, whether you have the mental and physical determination to tough it out or not its not worth the longterm risks and potential damage to your body and nervous system, for what will likely be a very dissapointing return. I wish you luck whichever route you go man!
 
Like I said, I was just sayin how your comin across... I dont know you ,and Id be defensive too if everybody was jumpin my shit for just askin a question, thats why I kept sayin if Ive got your personality wrong then dont bother listening to what Im sayin... But I can guaruntee everyone else on here is getting the same impression of you and, well - its always easier to be an asshole TO an asshole, and thats why people are treating you so shitty, ya know? But at the same time, a lot of the advice (not the flames) your getting your basically saying you dont like, then you ask the question again.... I guess until you get the answer you want? It doesnt sound like your gonna get it, so if your sure about what you want to do then fuck what everybody else says and do what you want - dont even ask for advice after you keep getting the SAME answer, several people agreeing with that answer, and it still isnt good enough. The truth is you really arent looking for advice, just validation. Your not going to get it here, but if your confident enough in your own decision making then dont waste your time asking for advice you dont really want. And dont be surprised if everything turns out just like these guys are saying, but if they were wrong come back on here and tell em so when your cycles over. The way they see it, your asking a nuclear weapons engineer to tell you the safest way to disarm a nuclear bomb... if someone put a gun to their head they could come up with an answer that would be the "best" way for an unqualified person to do it, but the truth is if your not qualified your not qualified, there arent different degrees of wrong, and what your tryin to do just shouldnt be done, period. If you wanna give it a shot though, thats how most people 25 or 35 years ago were doin it anyway - trial and error and no access to experienced advice or nationwide forums and discussion boards of accomplished and experienced experts like we have today. It didnt work the best though. And I dont think anybody has implied you cant handle any physical side effects, they are just saying A) your going to be surprised by how different these are vs what you have experienced in the past and B) They dont think the toll on your body is worth it, whether you have the mental and physical determination to tough it out or not its not worth the longterm risks and potential damage to your body and nervous system, for what will likely be a very dissapointing return. I wish you luck whichever route you go man!

i'm not asking for validation at all. and i don't get what you're trying to say... these boards are for people who know about AAS but just need a bit of help to figure a few things out that they weren't clear about. i may've only run two cycles, but i've been surrounded by steroids for a few years now through friends, friends who seel, bodybuilders i know, researching for hours a night etc. itake my training very seriously, and have been dieting and cutting naturally for a few weeks now in anticipation of this cycle in a few weeks. i came here asking if people thought this was an ok dosage, not whether they would personally do a cycle in my position blahblahblah. i'll make my own decisions. bodybuilders get out of shape during the offseason and cycle to get back into shape. my offseason was this summer...i slacked a bit for the first time in 5 or 6 years. so i'm cutting naturally, then cycling to fill the rest in, i just need input on the arimidex , hcg and clomid dosages. but noone can seem to do that for me. as if them saying i shouldn't do it will actually influence me..
 
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