How To Choose the Right HRT Clinic

[pbhardbody]

Since I get so many PMs from people asking me the benefits of using an HRT Clinic versus an underground lab, and how to reach my friend that works at the HRT Clinic I use, I thought why not make one thread where I can put up info about HRT Clinics and my experiences over the 4 - 5 years that I've used them. In that 4 - 5 years I've used 3 different Clinics.

So here goes.

1. Location - You do NOT have to have an HRT Clinic near you to be able to use an HRT Clinic for Testosterone Replacement Therapy and/or Hormone Replacement Therapy (TRT/HRT). The HRT Clinic that my friend works at is located in south FL. However, he has patients all over the United States. They do not service patients in NY or NJ.

2. How It Works - By using an HRT Clinic, you provide yourself with the assurance that you are being monitored by the Clinic's Medical Staff. All HRT Clinics have a doctor on staff. Most also have either a Nurse Practioner or a Physicians Assistant on staff as well.

Every HRT Clinic I've ever been a patient at requires that you are at least 30 years old to be a patient.

Everything is done based on your bodies specific needs as shown by the bloodwork that the Clinic has done.

If you don't have recent bloodwork your Patient Care Coordinator, at the Clinic, will set everything up so that you can go to a LabCorp office that is close to you, and have your bloodwork done.

The Clinic requires that you have a recent "basic" physical - ie height/weight, blood pressure, heart rate, etc.

They will help you with finding a health clinic in your area that does basic physicals so that you can get right in, generally without an appointment.

The last detail is that you have to complete a Medical History form at the Clinics website.

Your Patient Care Coordinator builds a medical file that contains the bloodwork, physical, and Medical History.

This file is given to the Medical Staff so that they can make an analysis of it, and make recommendations for your TRT/HRT.

Once done, the Medical Staff gives your file back to your Patient Care Coordinator, who then contacts you and goes over your bloodwork levels, as well as the recommended therapy.

You pay for your prescription, and they have the meds overnighted direct from the pharmacy to your door.

3. Service - This is the # 1 criteria I recommend anyone use when selecting an HRT Clinic. And I'll even take that a step further... I don't think you can base your selection on the service you get just from the Clinic.

What I've found is that you can get different levels of service from different people within the same Clinic.

Here's what I mean:

It's really important who your Patient Care Coordinator at the clinic is and the quality of service they provide. They are the person who will work with you on everything from having a question about your prescription, to issues with a shipment, if you ever have one. So you really have to go with someone who works to provide you with a high level of great service.

Here's an example of what happened to me: A few years back I was with a different clinic than I'm at now. My Patient Care Coordinator moved out of the area and quit working there, and so I got reassigned to a different Patient Care Coordinator.

I ended up with a completely different level of service, at the exact same company, by just being with a different Patient Care Coordinator. It wasn't a good situation.

So IMO the best thing to do is to go with a Clinic based on a recommendation of the Patient Care Coordinator if you can. This enables you to make a decision based on the reputation of the Coordinator instead of just the Clinic.

4. Cost - I'm always looking for the best prices I can get. What I've learned is that the prices will vary widely from one clinic to another. I've referred several people to my Patient Care Coordinator. Every single time he has saved the referral money over what they were paying at their last HRT Clinic. One time his prices were 25% less than the other Clinic!

My Patient Care Coordinator has told me that a basic Testosterone Cypionate therapy costs about $60 - $75 per month. So prescribed therapy is way cheaper than most people expect it to be.

Ok that's good for now. In a few days I'll post some more information.

If you have any questions, post them, or send me a PM. If I don't know the answer, I'll get in touch with my Patient Care Coordinator and ask him, or I can put you in direct contact with him.

 

[Discreet User]

Thanks for all the great info.

 

[pbhardbody]

you're welcome

 

[kjcmjc]

I too have used a Clinic out of South FL. The only concern I have is does the Dr have to physically exam you? What are the legalities of this? I was told that since the meds are controlled that a Dr from the clinic must exam you before he can write a script? Now I am wondering if this is true can I get in legal trouble? I did submit my blood work and the questionnaire and had a consultation on the phone. I do have a real medical reason to use what I am on now. Just wondering?

 

[pbhardbody]

I too have used a Clinic out of South FL. The only concern I have is does the Dr have to physically exam you? What are the legalities of this? I was told that since the meds are controlled that a Dr from the clinic must exam you before he can write a script? Now I am wondering if this is true can I get in legal trouble? I did submit my blood work and the questionnaire and had a consultation on the phone. I do have a real medical reason to use what I am on now. Just wondering?

I did a little checking on this and learned that NY and NJ are the only states that require a face to face visit with the doctor for them to be able to write you a prescription and have the pharmacy ship meds to you.

If you are in NY or NJ, then you can make an appointment with the clinic, and get a physical done at their location.

 

[kjcmjc]

Thanks pbhardbody, that is good to know. I am not in one of those states. Was getting a little nervous. I tried finding out what the legality of this was and could not find answers.

 

[Discreet User]

Thanks pbhardbody, that is good to know. I am not in one of those states. Was getting a little nervous. I tried finding out what the legality of this was and could not find answers.

Stick with pbhardbody; He's a good bro.

 

[doublebicep]

Nicely done pbhardbody.

 

[pbhardbody]

I've been getting quite a few PMs from people asking me how low their testosterone levels have to be to qualify
for therapy through an HRT Clinic. So I contacted my Patient Care Coordinator and asked.

Here is what he said:

"A person who wants hormone replacement therapy does not have to be below the bottom end of the range
to qualify for therapy. For example, a 42 year old male: The testosterone range is 280 - 800. This
does not mean that you have to be below 280 to qualify for therapy. Overall physical health is taken
into account, but if the person is suffering from symptoms of Adult Hormone Deficiency, and his
bloodwork confirms that he is somewhere below the top end of the range, he is generally an eligible
candidate for therapy.

Our Medical Staff would determine the protocol (dosing and frequency of injections) based on
where the initial testosterone level falls in the range."

I hope this is helpful to those who had that question.

 

[Discreet User]

I've been getting quite a few PMs from people asking me how low their testosterone levels have to be to qualify
for therapy through an HRT Clinic. So I contacted my Patient Care Coordinator and asked.

Here is what he said:

"A person who wants hormone replacement therapy does not have to be below the bottom end of the range
to qualify for therapy. For example, a 42 year old male: The testosterone range is 280 - 800. This
does not mean that you have to be below 280 to qualify for therapy. Overall physical health is taken
into account, but if the person is suffering from symptoms of Adult Hormone Deficiency, and his
bloodwork confirms that he is somewhere below the top end of the range, he is generally an eligible
candidate for therapy.

Our Medical Staff would determine the protocol (dosing and frequency of injections) based on
where the initial testosterone level falls in the range."

I hope this is helpful to those who had that question.

"Our Medical Staff would determine the protocol (dosing and frequency of injections) based on where the initial testosterone level falls in the range."

If a patient goes on TRT doesn't there natural production cease anyway? Why is the dose dependent on their initial reading if their natural production becomes irrelevant after beginning therapy?

I'm also curious what the highest weekly TRT dose is, that you know of.

 

[pbhardbody]

"Our Medical Staff would determine the protocol (dosing and frequency of injections) based on where the initial testosterone level falls in the range."

If a patient goes on TRT doesn't there natural production cease anyway? Why is the dose dependent on their initial reading if their natural production becomes irrelevant after beginning therapy?

I'm also curious what the highest weekly TRT dose is, that you know of.

There are two testosterone levels that are measured - testosterone serum, and free testosterone.

Your testosterone serum number will increase through therapy. So that is the "primary" number they look at, although your free testosterone level is important as well.

Generally your free testosterone level will decrease when taking injections of testosterone. Because you are injecting testosterone your body is told to stop production.

However, they will usually prescribe HCG which you inject to keep your free testosterone level up, preventing the production stop, and it also prevents testicular atrophy.

The maximum weekly dosage is 600 mg. This is a combination of test and deca. So you could do 400 mg of test cyp and 200 mg of deca for a total of 600 mg. Or you could do 600mg of test cyp.

Keep in mind that these are pharmacy grade so IMO 600mg of test cyp from a pharmacy will generally be more testosterone than 600mg of test cyp from an underground lab.

 

[Discreet User]

There are two testosterone levels that are measured - testosterone serum, and free testosterone.

Your testosterone serum number will increase through therapy. So that is the "primary" number they look at, although your free testosterone level is important as well.

Generally your free testosterone level will decrease when taking injections of testosterone. Because you are injecting testosterone your body is told to stop production.

However, they will usually prescribe HCG which you inject to keep your free testosterone level up, preventing the production stop, and it also prevents testicular atrophy.

The maximum weekly dosage is 600 mg. This is a combination of test and deca. So you could do 400 mg of test cyp and 200 mg of deca for a total of 600 mg. Or you could do 600mg of test cyp.

Keep in mind that these are pharmacy grade so IMO 600mg of test cyp from a pharmacy will generally be more testosterone than 600mg of test cyp from an underground lab.

My doc prescribed 200mg/week, but hinted that my levels were still low after my one month follow up blood test (you know the details PB).

I'm thinking about telling him during my next appointment that I upped it to 200mg twice per week, and hopefully he'll write me more next time

I think he may have had that in mind, since he wrote my three 10 ml vials initially.

 

[pbhardbody]

My doc prescribed 200mg/week, but hinted that my levels were still low after my one month follow up blood test (you know the details PB).

I'm thinking about telling him during my next appointment that I upped it to 200mg twice per week, and hopefully he'll write me more next time

I think he may have had that in mind, since he wrote my three 10 ml vials initially.

I would say one month may be too soon to tell. Just really starting to kick in at that point. See if he will write the script for 2 ccs a week and split them into 2 injections like you said. Then tell him you want to check your levels in 90 days. You will get a better take on the improvement at that point.

 

[pbhardbody]

Was talking to my Patient Care Coordinator this morning and he told me that he would be glad to answer any specific questions that anyone has regarding TRT/HRT, how it all works, how to get started, etc.

So post your questions in this thread, and I will get them to him, then I'll post up his answers for all to see. If you feel your question is too personal to post out in the open, PM it to me and I'll get it to him for you, or PM me and I'll put you in direct contact with him.

 

[Discreet User]

Was talking to my Patient Care Coordinator this morning and he told me that he would be glad to answer any specific questions that anyone has regarding TRT/HRT, how it all works, how to get started, etc.

So post your questions in this thread, and I will get them to him, then I'll post up his answers for all to see. If you feel your question is too personal to post out in the open, PM it to me and I'll get it to him for you, or PM me and I'll put you in direct contact with him.

pbhardbody,
Please place me in contact with your Patient Care Coordinator.

After this TRT cycle I may be in the market for a new Doctor.

I'm uneasy about the fact that my doc won't prescribe HCG to run along with testosterone.

I'm sure that if this medical facility comes with your recommendation they are A+

 

[pbhardbody]

pbhardbody,
Please place me in contact with your Patient Care Coordinator.

After this TRT cycle I may be in the market for a new Doctor.

I'm uneasy about the fact that my doc won't prescribe HCG to run along with testosterone.

I'm sure that if this medical facility comes with your recommendation they are A+

Discreet - I agree about the whole HCG issue. That would bother me too.

It's interesting because I've talked to a lot of other people on here that have ran into the same situation -- they have a doc that has a very basic knowledge of TRT.

When it comes to AIs, HCG, orals, and other options - they arent available to them because their doc doesnt have proper knowledge to be able/know to prescribe them or what the protocols should be.

Anyone that wants to reach my Patient Care Coordinator, just send me a PM with your first name and an email address. I'll pass this on to my Patient Care Coordinator. He'll email you some information, as well as a link to his website.

 

[tlm1]

I can vouch for PH's patient care coordinator. He hooked me up with his guy and I have been very satisfied. I did my 1st shot today - it was nerve-wracking but painless! I was prescibed test cyp, hcg and adex.

 

[caribeman]

PB has provided me with an awesome rep. Thanks again PB.

 

[Zyglamail]

PB has provided me with an awesome rep. Thanks again PB.

yep yep.

Just got my labs

serum test 381
free test 9.8

No wonder I cant drag myself to the gym and life seems ho-hum.....

 

[Discreet User]

yep yep.

Just got my labs

serum test 381
free test 9.8

No wonder I cant drag myself to the gym and life seems ho-hum.....

I had those kinds of numbers before ever touching test, and I'm 22 years old!

Now in on 400mg/week TRT and loving life!

 

[layinback]

There are two testosterone levels that are measured - testosterone serum, and free testosterone.

Your testosterone serum number will increase through therapy. So that is the "primary" number they look at, although your free testosterone level is important as well.

Generally your free testosterone level will decrease when taking injections of testosterone. Because you are injecting testosterone your body is told to stop production.

However, they will usually prescribe HCG which you inject to keep your free testosterone level up, preventing the production stop, and it also prevents testicular atrophy.

The maximum weekly dosage is 600 mg. This is a combination of test and deca. So you could do 400 mg of test cyp and 200 mg of deca for a total of 600 mg. Or you could do 600mg of test cyp.

Keep in mind that these are pharmacy grade so IMO 600mg of test cyp from a pharmacy will generally be more testosterone than 600mg of test cyp from an underground lab.

i am scripted 400 mgs cyp wk, 200 deca wk and 2 i u hgh day. i use the 400
cyp and i only do the deca 12 wks once a year. however i use 3 - 4 iu hgh
day. i've been on this regimen for several years except for hgh, i started that
13 months ago. i am scripted 1/2 mg arimidex every 5 days for ai.

good info you've posted here brutha.

 

[caribeman]

yep yep.

Just got my labs

serum test 381
free test 9.8

No wonder I cant drag myself to the gym and life seems ho-hum.....

Ouch bro! Feel sorry for ya. But the good thing is you can do something about that. Bust a move and get on it.

 

[Discreet User]

i am scripted 400 mgs cyp wk, 200 deca wk and 2 i u hgh day. i use the 400
cyp and i only do the deca 12 wks once a year. however i use 3 - 4 iu hgh
day. i've been on this regimen for several years except for hgh, i started that
13 months ago. i am scripted 1/2 mg arimidex every 5 days for ai.

good info you've posted here brutha.

Do you have any suggestions for asking my doc to prescribe Deca?

I'm getting Test, Arimidex, Nolvadex, and HCG now.

 

[layinback]

Do you have any suggestions for asking my doc to prescribe Deca?

I'm getting Test, Arimidex, Nolvadex, and HCG now.

why are you scripted nolva ? is it for emergency?


bro, i don't know your doc or your circumstances. give me a little feedback
on yourself and your doc.

 

[Discreet User]

why are you scripted nolva ? is it for emergency?


bro, i don't know your doc or your circumstances. give me a little feedback
on yourself and your doc.

I'm 22 years old and have tested very low for total and free testosterone.

First test I tested in the mid 200's. 1 month later with perfect diet and everything else I tested mid 400's, which is still VERY low for 22 years old.

The doctor was happy to prescribe me testosterone. I asked him for ancillaries to have on hand and he wrote the scripts no problem. The only issue I've had is HCG, he'll only give it to me in the final 2 weeks of my 10 week cycle.

As far as the doctor knows, I came in at the mid 400's after 3 weeks on Testosterone. I wasn't really taking it at that time, but he thinks I was.

Hopefully this will give me some ammo for when I speak with him next time, to get more scripts.

My plan is to do 10 week cycles and not stay on indefinitely.

I'm in otherwise excellent shape. Good low body fat %. Clean diet (4500 kcal per day now, bulking), following HST training program.

I made respectable gains as a natural, and only decided to get on test once the gains stopped and I was feeling symptoms of low test.

 

[Zyglamail]

Ouch bro! Feel sorry for ya. But the good thing is you can do something about that. Bust a move and get on it.

Yep, starting monday

 

[Zyglamail]

I made respectable gains as a natural, and only decided to get on test once the gains stopped and I was feeling symptoms of low test.

Symptoms of low test are insidious, they sneak up on you as you age (generally speaking) and the changes are so gradual you almost dont notice them.

Then when you stop to think about the joy you used to get from things and rate them now stuff just doesnt get you as jazzed up, fun things just arent as fun. Can be hard to focus and concentrate.

What really pisses me off about the medical community is that ever since the gov made AAS scheduled it seems the medical community has shunned them. There are numerous studies about the benefits of ERT for women while men just had to sit back and quietly suffer.

Anyway, I digress......

As far as deca goes most docs up on TRT would have no problem prescribing deca at half your prescribed T dose. You could try telling him your joints are a bit achy and ask if he would prescribe it. If not you may want to consider finding another doc if you really want to use it.

 

[Discreet User]

Symptoms of low test are insidious, they sneak up on you as you age (generally speaking) and the changes are so gradual you almost dont notice them.

Then when you stop to think about the joy you used to get from things and rate them now stuff just doesnt get you as jazzed up, fun things just arent as fun. Can be hard to focus and concentrate.

What really pisses me off about the medical community is that ever since the gov made AAS scheduled it seems the medical community has shunned them. There are numerous studies about the benefits of ERT for women while men just had to sit back and quietly suffer.

Anyway, I digress......

As far as deca goes most docs up on TRT would have no problem prescribing deca at half your prescribed T dose. You could try telling him your joints are a bit achy and ask if he would prescribe it. If not you may want to consider finding another doc if you really want to use it.

Thanks for the response, karma headed your way

I do want to ask for it, what is the best way I could explain to him that I want deca?
How should I refer to Deca in terms of naming it?

 

[Zyglamail]

Thanks for the response, karma headed your way

I do want to ask for it, what is the best way I could explain to him that I want deca?
How should I refer to Deca in terms of naming it?

He is your doc, he should be trying to help you as long as you arent trying to hurt yourself. With that in mind I would just come straight and and say hey doc, my joints have been feeling a bit stiff and sore and that you have read a lot of good things about Nandrolone Decanoate and what it did for other peoples joints. Let him know your research has shown doses half that of test prescribed for HRT are common and see what he says. Worst he can say if no. He may say he wants to look into it more himself or simply just say yes.

 

[Discreet User]

He is your doc, he should be trying to help you as long as you arent trying to hurt yourself. With that in mind I would just come straight and and say hey doc, my joints have been feeling a bit stiff and sore and that you have read a lot of good things about Nandrolone Decanoate and what it did for other peoples joints. Let him know your research has shown doses half that of test prescribed for HRT are common and see what he says. Worst he can say if no. He may say he wants to look into it more himself or simply just say yes.

Thanks Zyglamail,
I'm going to give it a try!

 

[pbhardbody]

He is your doc, he should be trying to help you as long as you arent trying to hurt yourself. With that in mind I would just come straight and and say hey doc, my joints have been feeling a bit stiff and sore and that you have read a lot of good things about Nandrolone Decanoate and what it did for other peoples joints. Let him know your research has shown doses half that of test prescribed for HRT are common and see what he says. Worst he can say if no. He may say he wants to look into it more himself or simply just say yes.

Great advice Zyg.

 

[pbhardbody]

Discreet - I got with my Patient Care Coordinator and sent me the following info to pass along to you regarding deca.
There may be some info here that you can utilize with your doc.

Derived from modifying the testosterone molecule, Nandrolone is one of the most popular anabolics in the world and with good reason; it is a versatile anabolic that can be used in "bulking" or "cutting" cycles.

Nandrolone has many benefits coupled with an unbeaten safety record. It has an anabolic (muscle building) rating of 125, making it an excellent drug for adding lean muscle. Neither is it very androgenic (leading to the development of male characteristics in women), with an androgenic ratio of only 37.

Nandrolone aids in various ways:

1. It promotes nitrogen retention in the muscle cell which in turn

2. Promotes the muscle cell to synthesize and store more protein

3. It increases levels of the highly anabolic hormone IGF-1 in muscle tissue

4. And it leads to a significant increase in the amount of androgen receptors in muscle.

5. Nandrolone has been proven to improve endurance

6. Increase the number of red blood cells

7. And speed the rate of glycogen replenishment after strenuous physical activity

8. One trait people love about Nandrolone is its ability to reduce joint pain and soreness

9. This is because the drug increases the rate of collagen synthesis and increases bone mineral content

10. Shown to be a good drug for fat loss, Nandrolone can reduce the amount of fat under the skin and around the abdominal area

11. The amount lost, however, is dependant on dose, with higher dosages having the greatest overall effect

12. Nandrolone also has positive effects on the brain. It increases chemicals in the brain that promote aggressive behavior, which can improve both speed and power

13. Nandrolone aromatizes (converts to estrogen) slightly, but only at about 20% the rate of testosterone, so estrogenic side effects such as breast tissue growth in men (gynecomastia), fat gain and water retention are not major issues. Most who use Nandrolone seldom complain of androgenic side effects such as prostate enlargement, loss of hair and acne. Those who are worried about their cardio vascular health can use Nandrolone without fear; studies have shown that it does not negatively affect cholesterol.

Nandrolone is a good drug, but it is not perfect. With its chemical structure it acts directly on the receptor of the female sex hormone progesterone with a binding rate of 20% of the actual hormone.

Despite its low aromatizing rate, this can lead to breast growth in gyno-prone individuals. There is no need for panic though, because Tamoxifen Citrate can easily combat this reaction.

Elevated prolactin levels are also a side effect of Nandrolone usage, but there are readily available drugs like bromocriptine and cabergoline that activate the dopamine receptor to lower prolactin levels.

Testicular atrophy may be a problem from elevated prolactin as well. HCG (female hormone that acts like LH when introduced into the male body) used during the cycle can possibly remedy or prevent the condition.

Probably the worst effect Nandrolone has is on natural testosterone production: a single 100mg dose of Nandrolone causes complete nullification of testosterone levels, which remained suppressed for a month before returning to normal.

This can cause loss of sex drive, better known as the dreaded "Deca dick." The best solution to this problem is to always use at least a 2:1 ratio of testosterone with Nandrolone.

 

[Zyglamail]

Here is a good read specific to nandrolone and collagen synthesis...

http://www.flexcellint.com/documents/TT/TT2.pdf

 

[Discreet User]

Thanks again for more great info PB

Discreet - I got with my Patient Care Coordinator and sent me the following info to pass along to you regarding deca.
There may be some info here that you can utilize with your doc.

Derived from modifying the testosterone molecule, Nandrolone is one of the most popular anabolics in the world and with good reason; it is a versatile anabolic that can be used in "bulking" or "cutting" cycles.

Nandrolone has many benefits coupled with an unbeaten safety record. It has an anabolic (muscle building) rating of 125, making it an excellent drug for adding lean muscle. Neither is it very androgenic (leading to the development of male characteristics in women), with an androgenic ratio of only 37.

Nandrolone aids in various ways:

1. It promotes nitrogen retention in the muscle cell which in turn

2. Promotes the muscle cell to synthesize and store more protein

3. It increases levels of the highly anabolic hormone IGF-1 in muscle tissue

4. And it leads to a significant increase in the amount of androgen receptors in muscle.

5. Nandrolone has been proven to improve endurance

6. Increase the number of red blood cells

7. And speed the rate of glycogen replenishment after strenuous physical activity

8. One trait people love about Nandrolone is its ability to reduce joint pain and soreness

9. This is because the drug increases the rate of collagen synthesis and increases bone mineral content

10. Shown to be a good drug for fat loss, Nandrolone can reduce the amount of fat under the skin and around the abdominal area

11. The amount lost, however, is dependant on dose, with higher dosages having the greatest overall effect

12. Nandrolone also has positive effects on the brain. It increases chemicals in the brain that promote aggressive behavior, which can improve both speed and power

13. Nandrolone aromatizes (converts to estrogen) slightly, but only at about 20% the rate of testosterone, so estrogenic side effects such as breast tissue growth in men (gynecomastia), fat gain and water retention are not major issues. Most who use Nandrolone seldom complain of androgenic side effects such as prostate enlargement, loss of hair and acne. Those who are worried about their cardio vascular health can use Nandrolone without fear; studies have shown that it does not negatively affect cholesterol.

Nandrolone is a good drug, but it is not perfect. With its chemical structure it acts directly on the receptor of the female sex hormone progesterone with a binding rate of 20% of the actual hormone.

Despite its low aromatizing rate, this can lead to breast growth in gyno-prone individuals. There is no need for panic though, because Tamoxifen Citrate can easily combat this reaction.

Elevated prolactin levels are also a side effect of Nandrolone usage, but there are readily available drugs like bromocriptine and cabergoline that activate the dopamine receptor to lower prolactin levels.

Testicular atrophy may be a problem from elevated prolactin as well. HCG (female hormone that acts like LH when introduced into the male body) used during the cycle can possibly remedy or prevent the condition.

Probably the worst effect Nandrolone has is on natural testosterone production: a single 100mg dose of Nandrolone causes complete nullification of testosterone levels, which remained suppressed for a month before returning to normal.

This can cause loss of sex drive, better known as the dreaded "Deca dick." The best solution to this problem is to always use at least a 2:1 ratio of testosterone with Nandrolone.

 

[Discreet User]

Here is a good read specific to nandrolone and collagen synthesis...

http://www.flexcellint.com/documents/TT/TT2.pdf

Thank you for the reference Zyg

 

[pbhardbody]

Thanks again for more great info PB

You're welcome.

 

[pbhardbody]

Thanks bro. I noticed no HCG in your protocol. Is that correct or did you just not include it? 250 ius of HCG for the two consecutive days prior to one of your test pins is benefecial to your therapy in several ways.

If you want my Patient Care Coordinator to give you a price on everything with him, PM me and let me know. His prices are very competitive.

They dont accept insurance - so if you have insurance covering your therapy, you probably have the best deal you will get. If not, you might want to compare.

i am scripted 400 mgs cyp wk, 200 deca wk and 2 i u hgh day. i use the 400
cyp and i only do the deca 12 wks once a year. however i use 3 - 4 iu hgh
day. i've been on this regimen for several years except for hgh, i started that
13 months ago. i am scripted 1/2 mg arimidex every 5 days for ai.

good info you've posted here brutha.

 

[Discreet User]

Bros,
I had blood drawn 2 days ago and will get the results next week.

The blood is from week 5 of my 10 week Test Cypionate only TRT cycle.

I'll be PMing a few of you TRT gurus in the coming days with specific questions.

During my next meeting with the doc I will be requesting Deca & HCG to run along with Test.

Really not sure which ancillaries to ask for, as I know different things are needed to control Nandrolone sides...

I know it may sound odd being that this is my first run, but now that my Test is back up and I'm feeling great in every way, I'm beginning to rationalize staying on TRT and not cycling. My primary concern is fertility, because I want kids someday.

Any suggestions?

 

[pbhardbody]

I'll be curious to see how much your level jumped at only 5 weeks in. Cant remember if you are doing 1 cc or 2/week but dont be surprised if the jump isnt crazy just yet.

Also, get your blood work done again at the end of the cycle so that when you are ready to go back on, you can get blood work done again to see how well it has maintained from the time you went off to the time you go back on.

Understand that your test serum level will eventually decrease once you go off. To keep the level up, you need to continue to supplement it with exogenous testosterone.

If you decide you want to have kids, abt 90 days before you want to start, and 2 weeks after your last test injection, start a PCT of the following:

Days 1 - 16 500 ius of HCG per day
Days 1 - 30 100 mg of clomid per day
Days 1 - 45 10 mg of tamoxifen per day

This will get your free test production back up where you need it to be so that you can procreate.

Bros,
I had blood drawn 2 days ago and will get the results next week.

The blood is from week 5 of my 10 week Test Cypionate only TRT cycle.

I'll be PMing a few of you TRT gurus in the coming days with specific questions.

During my next meeting with the doc I will be requesting Deca & HCG to run along with Test.

Really not sure which ancillaries to ask for, as I know different things are needed to control Nandrolone sides...

I know it may sound odd being that this is my first run, but now that my Test is back up and I'm feeling great in every way, I'm beginning to rationalize staying on TRT and not cycling. My primary concern is fertility, because I want kids someday.

Any suggestions?

 

[Discreet User]

I'll be curious to see how much your level jumped at only 5 weeks in. Cant remember if you are doing 1 cc or 2/week but dont be surprised if the jump isnt crazy just yet.

Also, get your blood work done again at the end of the cycle so that when you are ready to go back on, you can get blood work done again to see how well it has maintained from the time you went off to the time you go back on.

Understand that your test serum level will eventually decrease once you go off. To keep the level up, you need to continue to supplement it with exogenous testosterone.

If you decide you want to have kids, abt 90 days before you want to start, and 2 weeks after your last test injection, start a PCT of the following:

Days 1 - 16 500 ius of HCG per day
Days 1 - 30 100 mg of clomid per day
Days 1 - 45 10 mg of tamoxifen per day

This will get your free test production back up where you need it to be so that you can procreate.

Is it really that easy?
Has it ever been proven that a PCT will definitely increase you production enough that you can have kids?

Permanent shutdown is a scary thing to think about at my young age...

Anyway, for now I'm going to do at least one more cycle before deciding whether or not to stay on indefinitely. I'm really looking forward to seeing how nandrolone works into the mix

By the way, I'm currently up 12 pounds, and down 2% body fat, since beginning this cycle nearly 6 weeks ago. Currently at ~12% body fat.

My diet is clean, up to 4,500 kcals per day. Focusing on high protein, moderate carbs & fat.

Following an HST weight training program. Been training this way for years with mediocre results. This testosterone cycle has been a godsend in terms of improvement.

I'm on 400mg/week Test Cypionate only, with .5mg Arimidex EOD.

 

[Zyglamail]

Is it really that easy?
Has it ever been proven that a PCT will definitely increase you production enough that you can have kids?

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression -- Coviello et al. 90 (5): 2595 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

 

[Discreet User]

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression -- Coviello et al. 90 (5): 2595 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

Thank you Zyglamail!

Great research paper.

I'm getting more and more tempted to stay on...

 

[Discreet User]

PB,
I'm getting the results of my week 5 labs in a few hours.

Would you be ok with me posting them here?

I'd like you, and the knowledgeable TRT bros to have a look at them.

 

[pbhardbody]

PB,
I'm getting the results of my week 5 labs in a few hours.

Would you be ok with me posting them here?

I'd like you, and the knowledgeable TRT bros to have a look at them.

Yes please do bro. Thanks for asking.

 

[Discreet User]

Baseline 7/1/2010:
Serum Testosterone: 468 ng/dl | Reference interval 280-800

Free Testosterone: 14.8 pg/ml | Reference interval 9.3-26.5

Week 5 of cycle (8/5/10), Test Cypionate 400mg/week & Arimidex .5mg EOD:
Serum Testosterone: >1500 ng/dl | Reference interval 280-800. Flagged as high. Testing method could not read greater than 1500, therefore we only know that it is greater than 1500 ng/dl.

Free Testosterone: 50.4 pg/ml | Reference interval 9.3-26.5

Estradiol: 38.4 pg/ml | Reference interval 7.6-42.6

Luteinizing Hormone (LH): 0.1 mIU/ml | Reference interval 1.7-8.6

Lipid panel looks good. Cholestorol, HDL, LDL, Triglicerides, are all within their respective reference intervals.

Unfortunately, there was a mixup regarding my baseline labs, that is why some of the tests are missing for baseline.

My plan going forward:
1. Complete this first TRT cycle of 10 weeks Test Cyp 400mg/week.
2. Use HCG during weeks 9 & 10, then complete a PCT and time off.
3. Convince doctor to prescribe Nandrolone for my next cycle {SUGGESTIONS PLEASE}.
4. Convince doctor to prescribe HCG for use on cycle, instead of just for PCT. HMG PERHAPS??? {SUGGESTIONS PLEASE}
5. Once I have been on Nandrolone + Test, then decide whether I will continue cycling, or just stay on.

 

[pendit]

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression -- Coviello et al. 90 (5): 2595 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

I'm so glad I wasn't part of that study!!

From the paper:

Subjects were placed in the supine position and appropriately draped. The skin over the spermatic cord was cleansed with alcohol on both sides. A cord block was then performed bilaterally with 1% buffered lidocaine injected around the spermatic cord. The skin overlying the anterior-superior portion of the testes was then cleansed with alcohol. A 19-gauge butterfly needle with tubing was attached to a 5-cc syringe via a three-way stopcock and inserted percutaneously into the anterior superior portion of the testicle. Negative pressure was created in the syringe with the three-way stopcock. The needle was held in place until an adequate amount of testicular fluid (>5 µl) was withdrawn into the tubing. The tubing was then clamped with a hemostat, and the needle was withdrawn to eliminate reflux of fluid from within the tunica albuginea. The tubing with testicular fluid sample was immediately placed on ice. The aspirate procedure was then repeated on the contralateral testicle.

 

[Discreet User]

I'm so glad I wasn't part of that study!!

From the paper:

That's exactly what I though when reading that study.

I'm glad some people are willing to be guinea pigs, otherwise we wouldn't have the answers to such questions.

 

[Zyglamail]

haha, cant imagine a needle in the nut feels good thats for sure.

The main reason I posted the study was to show how effective low dose HCG is for keeping the boys working, even when on cycle. HCG has a much longer halflife than the bodies own LH and large constant HCG doses have shown to reduce sensitivity. The infequent low dose HCG protocol is not only more effective over the long haul but a lot cheaper as well. If ya keep the boys working during a cycle then they come back much quicker post cycle as well.

 

[Discreet User]

Reposting as this was getting buried

Baseline 7/1/2010:
Serum testosterone: 468 ng/dl | Reference interval 280-800

Free testosterone: 14.8 pg/ml | Reference interval 9.3-26.5

Week 5 of cycle (8/5/10), Test Cypionate 400mg/week & Arimidex .5mg EOD:
Serum testosterone: >1500 ng/dl | Reference interval 280-800. Flagged as high. Testing method could not read greater than 1500, therefore we only know that it is greater than 1500 ng/dl.

Free testosterone: 50.4 pg/ml | Reference interval 9.3-26.5

Estradiol: 38.4 pg/ml | Reference interval 7.6-42.6

Luteinizing Hormone (LH): 0.1 mIU/ml | Reference interval 1.7-8.6

Lipid panel looks good. Cholestorol, HDL, LDL, Triglicerides, are all within their respective reference intervals.

Unfortunately, there was a mixup regarding my baseline labs, that is why some of the tests are missing for baseline.

My plan going forward:
1. Complete this first TRT cycle of 10 weeks Test Cyp 400mg/week.
2. Use hcg during weeks 9 & 10, then complete a PCT and time off.
3. Convince doctor to prescribe nandrolone for my next cycle {SUGGESTIONS PLEASE}.
4. Convince doctor to prescribe hcg for use on cycle, instead of just for PCT. HMG PERHAPS??? {SUGGESTIONS PLEASE}
5. Once I have been on nandrolone + Test, then decide whether I will continue cycling, or just stay on.

 

[jnuts]

How soon after your last shot was the blood drawn?

 

[Discreet User]

How soon after your last shot was the blood drawn?

Blood was drawn two days after my last shot of 200mg

I pin 200mg 2 x per week

I should also mention my stats:
Age: 22
Height: 5'07"
Weight 168lb
Body Fat: 12%

Goals:
Keep body fat under 15%.
Lean bulk.
Maintain sex drive and vigor as I have seen them both improve with TRT.

I have very low T for my age. I once tested 204 for serum testosterone after not sleeping the whole night before the blood draw.

I consider my baseline serum Testosterone to be 468 ng/dl | Reference interval 280-800. 468 was my number under optimal conditions.

 

[pbhardbody]

Reposting as this was getting buried

Baseline 7/1/2010:
Serum testosterone: 468 ng/dl | Reference interval 280-800

Free testosterone: 14.8 pg/ml | Reference interval 9.3-26.5

Week 5 of cycle (8/5/10), Test Cypionate 400mg/week & Arimidex .5mg EOD:
Serum testosterone: >1500 ng/dl | Reference interval 280-800. Flagged as high. Testing method could not read greater than 1500, therefore we only know that it is greater than 1500 ng/dl.

Free testosterone: 50.4 pg/ml | Reference interval 9.3-26.5

Estradiol: 38.4 pg/ml | Reference interval 7.6-42.6

Luteinizing Hormone (LH): 0.1 mIU/ml | Reference interval 1.7-8.6

Lipid panel looks good. Cholestorol, HDL, LDL, Triglicerides, are all within their respective reference intervals.

Unfortunately, there was a mixup regarding my baseline labs, that is why some of the tests are missing for baseline.

My plan going forward:
1. Complete this first TRT cycle of 10 weeks Test Cyp 400mg/week.
2. Use hcg during weeks 9 & 10, then complete a PCT and time off.
3. Convince doctor to prescribe nandrolone for my next cycle {SUGGESTIONS PLEASE}.
4. Convince doctor to prescribe hcg for use on cycle, instead of just for PCT. HMG PERHAPS??? {SUGGESTIONS PLEASE}
5. Once I have been on nandrolone + Test, then decide whether I will continue cycling, or just stay on.

Hey Discreet - I'm really surprised that your serum test made that big a jump in 5 weeks. That's great. You are responding well.

I cant remember if you are doing an AI or SERM... seems you said .5 mg of arimidex. Your Estradiol is a little bit high. Still within range but a more optimum number would be about 23. If you are taking one arimidex a week, taking a second one on next cycle should help to keep it just a bit lower. Especially if you add deca, which can up your estrogen.

Adding the HCG to the next cycle will help to get your LH up a bit too.

What does he have you doing for a PCT?

 

[Zyglamail]

Hey Discreet - I'm really surprised that your serum test made that big a jump in 5 weeks. That's great. You are responding well.

My guess would be its partially due to his size. His dose would hit someone 225+ quite as much.

 

[pbhardbody]

My guess would be its partially due to his size. His dose would hit someone 225+ quite as much.

Good point.

 

[Discreet User]

Hey Discreet - I'm really surprised that your serum test made that big a jump in 5 weeks. That's great. You are responding well.

I cant remember if you are doing an AI or SERM... seems you said .5 mg of arimidex. Your Estradiol is a little bit high. Still within range but a more optimum number would be about 23. If you are taking one arimidex a week, taking a second one on next cycle should help to keep it just a bit lower. Especially if you add deca, which can up your estrogen.

Adding the HCG to the next cycle will help to get your LH up a bit too.

What does he have you doing for a PCT?

Yes, I was definitely surprised and enjoyed seeing my Test level so high

I'm on Arimidex .5mg EOD and Test Cyp 400mg/week split up two shots per week.

Regarding estradiol; I find my number of 38.4 quite interesting because most people would assume that .5mg Arimidex EOD would keep my estradiol much lower. Before posting these numbers many people recommended that I actually reduce my Arimidex dose. I'm definitely not noticing any estrogen sides, so I'm not concerned. My water retention is a bit high, not really noticeable though.

My stats just as a reminder:
Age: 22
Height: 5'07"
Weight 170lb (Gaining quality mass)
Body Fat: 12%

For PCT: HCG at the end of cycle, with Nolva as PCT.

What do you bros say about HMG? Should I push my doctor for HMG in addition to HCG?

 

[layinback]

Yes, I was definitely surprised and enjoyed seeing my Test level so high

I'm on Arimidex .5mg EOD and Test Cyp 400mg/week split up two shots per week.

Regarding estradiol; I find my number of 38.4 quite interesting because most people would assume that .5mg Arimidex EOD would keep my estradiol much lower. Before posting these numbers many people recommended that I actually reduce my Arimidex dose. I'm definitely not noticing any estrogen sides, so I'm not concerned. My water retention is a bit high, not really noticeable though.

My stats just as a reminder:
Age: 22
Height: 5'07"
Weight 170lb (Gaining quality mass)
Body Fat: 12%

For PCT: HCG at the end of cycle, with Nolva as PCT.

What do you bros say about HMG? Should I push my doctor for HMG in addition to HCG?

i don't have any personal experience with HMG, but it would offer you no
additional benifits.......almost redundant.

and don't do nolva for PCT! since you have a Doc, get a script for aromasin.
take 25mgs every day for the first week and 25mgs every other day for the
next 3 weeks. add nolva only if you see definite signs of gyno.

aromasin is a 3rd generation suicidal aromatase inhibitor. it works better than
adex with fewer sides. it has some anabolic tendencies and will actually
contribute to keeping gains and adding lean mass! it'll have your endogenous
production up in no time.

 

[Discreet User]

[/SIZE]

i don't have any personal experience with HMG, but it would offer you no
additional benifits.......almost redundant.

and don't do nolva for PCT! since you have a Doc, get a script for aromasin.
take 25mgs every day for the first week and 25mgs every other day for the
next 3 weeks. add nolva only if you see definite signs of gyno.

aromasin is a 3rd generation suicidal aromatase inhibitor. it works better than
adex with fewer sides. it has some anabolic tendencies and will actually
contribute to keeping gains and adding lean mass! it'll have your endogenous
production up in no time.

Thanks Layinback!
Thats the kind of solid advice I was hoping for. I will definitely request the Aromasin.

It looks like I will be receiving my HCG script in week 8 or 9 of this 10 week cycle.

What's your advice for HCG use?
I was thinking maybe pin 500iu 2x per week for weeks 9, 10 & 11.

That would mean I have HCG in my system during the last 2 weeks + 1 week into PCT

 

[layinback]

Thanks Layinback!
Thats the kind of solid advice I was hoping for. I will definitely request the Aromasin.

It looks like I will be receiving my HCG script in week 8 or 9 of this 10 week cycle.

What's your advice for HCG use?
I was thinking maybe pin 500iu 2x per week for weeks 9, 10 & 11.

That would mean I have HCG in my system during the last 2 weeks + 1 week into PCT

omega turned me on to aromasin about a year and a half ago.

as far as HCG there's differing opinions. i would go on line and research proven
protocols conducted by experienced endo - HRT docs.

 

[Discreet User]

omega turned me on to aromasin about a year and a half ago.

as far as HCG there's differing opinions. i would go on line and research proven
protocols conducted by experienced endo - HRT docs.

Update-

I'm now in week 9 of a total 10.

Saw the doc last week and picked up a script for aromasin to use as pct.
I Have Nolvadex on hand just in case it is needed.

Also picked up HCG; pinning 500iu 3 x per week. Have done 3 shots thus far and the boys are definitely responding

 

[pbhardbody]

Update-

I'm now in week 9 of a total 10.

Saw the doc last week and picked up a script for aromasin to use as pct.
I Have Nolvadex on hand just in case it is needed.

Also picked up HCG; pinning 500iu 3 x per week. Have done 3 shots thus far and the boys are definitely responding

Discreet - did your doc do more blood work to establish where your natty test level is, to come up with that protocol or is he guessing again?

A trial tested protocol, (that has documentation for the results it gets)is the Crisler HCG Protocol IMO. 250 ius two days, and one day before one of your weekly test injections is both optimal timing, and the optimal amount.

Perhaps your doc has you running 500 ius 3 xs a week because he didnt have you running throughout your test therapy and he should have...

If you want, PM me and tell me what he has suggested as your PCT.

 

[Discreet User]

Discreet - did your doc do more blood work to establish where your natty test level is, to come up with that protocol or is he guessing again?

A trial tested protocol, (that has documentation for the results it gets)is the Crisler HCG Protocol IMO. 250 ius two days, and one day before one of your weekly test injections is both optimal timing, and the optimal amount.

Perhaps your doc has you running 500 ius 3 xs a week because he didnt have you running throughout your test therapy and he should have...

If you want, PM me and tell me what he has suggested as your PCT.

Hi PB,
I just sent you a PM.

You are correct, I decided to go with 500iu HCG because it was not used throughout the cycle, on-cycle use is what I would have preferred.

Last week I did 500iu HCG shots Monday, Wednesday & Friday.

This week I am reducing it to 250iu Monday, Wednesday & Friday.

The "boys" have definitely regained size since I began using HCG.

 

[pbhardbody]

Hi PB,
I just sent you a PM.

You are correct, I decided to go with 500iu HCG because it was not used throughout the cycle, on-cycle use is what I would have preferred.

Last week I did 500iu HCG shots Monday, Wednesday & Friday.

This week I am reducing it to 250iu Monday, Wednesday & Friday.

The "boys" have definitely regained size since I began using HCG.

Discreet - I will get back to you on your PM this weekend. Keep in mind that your testes regaining size is an indication that the HCG is working, but if you are now entering your PCT, I would not reduce the HCG too quickly.

You want the HCG to also increase your natural test production, and increase your LH if it has been diminished by the therapy.

 

[Discreet User]

Discreet - I will get back to you on your PM this weekend. Keep in mind that your testes regaining size is an indication that the HCG is working, but if you are now entering your PCT, I would not reduce the HCG too quickly.

You want the HCG to also increase your natural test production, and increase your LH if it has been diminished by the therapy.

LH lab from week 5:
Luteinizing Hormone (LH): 0.1 mIU/ml | Reference interval 1.7-8.6

What dose of HCG do you think I should stick with?
I'm only planning on 4 more HCG shots as I'm now in the final cycle week and only plan to run HCG 1 week into PCT.

PS. All my labs (baseline & on cycle) are posted in this thread in various posts I've made here.

 

[Discreet User]

Discreet - I will get back to you on your PM this weekend. Keep in mind that your testes regaining size is an indication that the HCG is working, but if you are now entering your PCT, I would not reduce the HCG too quickly.

You want the HCG to also increase your natural test production, and increase your LH if it has been diminished by the therapy.

I never received a reply PM

 

[pbhardbody]

I never received a reply PM

Sorry bro. Been crazy busy. I just sent you a PM.

 

[Discreet User]

Sorry bro. Been crazy busy. I just sent you a PM.

Thanks for getting back to me PB. I value your advice.

Everyone, please check out my thread and post your suggestions: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/9-days-into-pct-719337.html

 

[Discreet User]

pbhardbody are you still around bro? I see you haven't been active since November, thought maybe you're using a different name these days. Anyway, keep in touch. I've always valued your advice and want to update you on what I've been up to lately.