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suggestions for begginer cycle

I

ITA

New member
Hi everybody! I'm a italian guy, i'm new on this forum and i would like to get some suggestion about steroids.

(first of all sorry if my english is low)

I'm 24 years old and i'm lifting weights since 7 years, last 4 years more serious with diet and supplements, but i'm still thin (i'm 1,76 for 165 lb, i'm not a pure ectomorph but i have fast metabolism).

I'm getting tired about training without any result and i want to gain muscle and weight...so i was thinking about steroids.

I'm not a bodybuilder, my target isn't it, i just want to get some lb for looking bigger (maybe without fat if possible, by the way i don't have any problem with fat loss :D )

I can find test e and deca durabolin, do you think this is a good choice for me as first cycle?

i would appreciate any suggestion about cycles...but i wouldn't run steroids more than 8 weeks (i'm a bit scared of them) and i want ''human'' dosages...as i already told you i don't want to become huge and i would avoid post cycle side effects...and what about PCT?

Do i need to do it if a run low dosage, for example 100 mg deca durabolin + 200 mg test e for 8 week?

Thanks!
 
read the sticky's above. from what you are saying you don't need steroids.

just need to learn to eat better and change up your workout routine.

don't run deca for a first cycle if you don't know what you are doing especially. the consequences could be disastrous for you
 
ITA said:
Hi everybody! I'm a italian guy, i'm new on this forum and i would like to get some suggestion about steroids.

(first of all sorry if my english is low)

I'm 24 years old and i'm lifting weights since 7 years, last 4 years more serious with diet and supplements, but i'm still thin (i'm 1,76 for 165 lb, i'm not a pure ectomorph but i have fast metabolism).

I'm getting tired about training without any result and i want to gain muscle and weight...so i was thinking about steroids.

I'm not a bodybuilder, my target isn't it, i just want to get some lb for looking bigger (maybe without fat if possible, by the way i don't have any problem with fat loss :D )

I can find test e and deca durabolin, do you think this is a good choice for me as first cycle?

i would appreciate any suggestion about cycles...but i wouldn't run steroids more than 8 weeks (i'm a bit scared of them) and i want ''human'' dosages...as i already told you i don't want to become huge and i would avoid post cycle side effects...and what about PCT?

Do i need to do it if a run low dosage, for example 100 mg deca durabolin + 200 mg test e for 8 week?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Buonjourno my Italian friend...

Unfortunately you have not done your proper research... Deca is most definitely not a good first cycle... You can gain weight more naturally... You need to gain another ten pounds before you even consider a cycle... The fast metabolism thing is not going to work here... You are in luck though because you have come to the right place...

Start by reading this...

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/so-you-want-gain-weight-900333.html

gain some more weight and come back to me and I will get you all set up!

Avere un buono giorno! Arrivederci
 
Really Thanks everybody for your suggestions...i know it's hard to believe but i really can't gain weight...i tried everything...i'm not stupid and i think i'm doing everthing correctly, from training to diet, but i don't see any result, i only gain strenght but there's no way to gain muscle.

For this reason i'm thinking about steroids as last choice.

I don't understand why deca durabolin would be a distaster, does it shut you down so hard?

I don't know exactly what can i find because in italy steroids are illegal, i'm pretty sure about winstrol, test e, deca durabolin, dbol.

what about test e only cycle?

Sorry at the moment i can't read links that you posted because i'm in holiday and i'm using an iPhone for write these message and i can't open those links, dont know why.

Just because you know when i started lift weights i was around 90 lb for 1,70 (and i'm not joking)...i was skinny like hell so you can understand i put some muscle...now i can't gain anymore.
 
ITA said:
Really Thanks everybody for your suggestions...i know it's hard to believe but i really can't gain weight...i tried everything...i'm not stupid and i think i'm doing everthing correctly, from training to diet, but i don't see any result, i only gain strenght but there's no way to gain muscle.

For this reason i'm thinking about steroids as last choice.

I don't understand why deca durabolin would be a distaster, does it shut you down so hard?

I don't know exactly what can i find because in italy steroids are illegal, i'm pretty sure about winstrol, test e, deca durabolin, dbol.

what about test e only cycle?

Sorry at the moment i can't read links that you posted because i'm in holiday and i'm using an iPhone for write these message and i can't open those links, dont know why.

Just because you know when i started lift weights i was around 90 lb for 1,70 (and i'm not joking)...i was skinny like hell so you can understand i put some muscle...now i can't gain anymore.
Click to expand...

Deca is not a disaster. I used Deca on my first injectible cycle and gained a very nice amount of size. Its just that Deca can cause complications. I think you can run Test E and Deca no problems, just get hold of some prami or caber, get some HCG for on-cycle, and some clomid for PCT. Sholdn't be "shut down HARD" if you do the HCG and clomid post cycle. Also just keep it short and simple. 8-10 weeks is all you need. Make sure you lift like an animal and EAT EAT EAT. Eat as clean as you can since Deca will bloat you, but at the same time, get the calories in.
 
ConanX said:
Deca is not a disaster. I used Deca on my first injectible cycle and gained a very nice amount of size. Its just that Deca can cause complications. I think you can run Test E and Deca no problems, just get hold of some prami or caber, get some HCG for on-cycle, and some clomid for PCT. Sholdn't be "shut down HARD" if you do the HCG and clomid post cycle. Also just keep it short and simple. 8-10 weeks is all you need. Make sure you lift like an animal and EAT EAT EAT. Eat as clean as you can since Deca will bloat you, but at the same time, get the calories in.
Click to expand...


yes, i'll do for sure NO MORE than 8 weeks, but i would like to know why other members said not to use deca durabolin at all, is Nolvadex good as Clomid for pct?

I think i can't find HCG,prami and caber only nolvadex and clomid...maybe Nolvadex it's easier. Is it good too?

Is it ok if i follow a iper proteic diet during the cycle with low carbo, eating every 3 hours?
 
stevesmi said:
^^^ if you can't find the right ancillaries then forget deca.

i hope you take this advice
Click to expand...


I'll do! i want to consider every suggestion, if you say me that is better not to run deca durabolin i'll avoid it!

so..which are the best steroids to run in the first cycle?
 
ITA said:
I'll do! i want to consider every suggestion, if you say me that is better not to run deca durabolin i'll avoid it!

so..which are the best steroids to run in the first cycle?
Click to expand...

I ran test e for 10 weeks my first cycle at 250 mgs a week and got great results. Deca is a good steroid but not a good first choice. Deca can cause prolactin issues and I highly advise having some caber or prami on hand if needed. You need to do alot of research on training and eating as well as steroids. It should not be difficult to get near 200 lbs with a couple more years of training naturally. I seen earlier where you said you dont eat many carbs, if you wanna get jacked this needs to change. The body needs carbs for fuel. I would do a complete overhaul on training and diet before juicing.


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
 
ITA said:
I'll do! i want to consider every suggestion, if you say me that is better not to run deca durabolin i'll avoid it!

so..which are the best steroids to run in the first cycle?
Click to expand...

its up to you what to run. but i'm saying whatever you choose you need to run the proper ancillaries.

don't go into PCT with raisin nuts, elevated estrogen, and sky high prolactin and then come back and complain that we didn't warn you ahead of time.

if you can't get the proper ancillaries then just don't bother. also read the sticky above called steroids 101. and read drug profiles website.. and YOU decide what you want to run for a first cycle.

i would suggest a simple oral 4 week cycle first. maybe some dbols with an AI. simple and easy to recover from.

then if you want to run an injectable go with maybe primo or test.
 
Not going to dive further into this as the other members covered most of it. I will say that nolvadex should never been run when using deca or tren (just as a piece of knowledge).

You should do a search about pct because in all honesty your pct is
More important than your cycle. You can use clomid but I would also look into unleashes/post cycle combo with Forma in there as well (supps by needtobuildmuscle.com).

Do more research and since it seems
Like your going to do a cycle regardless of what some of the people here are saying, just make sure your post cycle is correct. I believe stevesmi has a link in his signature.

Hope this helps.
 
ok thanks all...i will follow your advices, i know i need more information but it's difficult for me...my english is poor and i often don't understand a lot of things on this forum also i don't know friends or people who really know about steroids.

In Italy there are only stupid personal trainers who just say: ''take this and this for 8 weeks ecc.ecc.''

i have a lot of friends who used steroids without any knowledge...i need a holiday in USA :D
 
ITA said:
ok thanks all...i will follow your advices, i know i need more information but it's difficult for me...my english is poor and i often don't understand a lot of things on this forum also i don't know friends or people who really know about steroids.

In Italy there are only stupid personal trainers who just say: ''take this and this for 8 weeks ecc.ecc.''

i have a lot of friends who used steroids without any knowledge...i need a holiday in USA :D
Click to expand...


good friend, i lived in milano for some time and i know that the trainers do not know shit... do not listen to them... you have come to the right place... my Italian is not as good as it once was but I will help you the best I can...
 
dylangemelli said:
good friend, i lived in milano for some time and i know that the trainers do not know shit... do not listen to them... you have come to the right place... my Italian is not as good as it once was but I will help you the best I can...
Click to expand...

Just ofr example a trainer told me to run deca durabolin and winstrol depot for 6 weeks without any recovery and pct...and i trusted him, because he is a really huge bobybuilder...LOL.

By the way, always for the same reason (my poor english) it would be easier for me if i could know before what is THE BEST for me to run and THEN i will do research and get informations about it, if i start reading everything it will take sooo long, i'm slow and i will get lost for sure.
As i already told i'll not run deca durabolin, so my choices are between ora winstrol, testovis, test e, dbol, sustanon. I read about testovis, it seems easier to control, could be a good choice as first cycle? (remembering i'm sure i can find only nolvadex and clomid for sure)
 
ITA said:
Just ofr example a trainer told me to run deca durabolin and winstrol depot for 6 weeks without any recovery and pct...and i trusted him, because he is a really huge bobybuilder...LOL.

By the way, always for the same reason (my poor english) it would be easier for me if i could know before what is THE BEST for me to run and THEN i will do research and get informations about it, if i start reading everything it will take sooo long, i'm slow and i will get lost for sure.
As i already told i'll not run deca durabolin, so my choices are between ora winstrol, testovis, test e, dbol, sustanon. I read about testovis, it seems easier to control, could be a good choice as first cycle? (remembering i'm sure i can find only nolvadex and clomid for sure)
Click to expand...

the trainer who told you this bad info needs his ass kicked...

friend, how many calories do you eat a day??
 
dylangemelli said:
the trainer who told you this bad info needs his ass kicked...

friend, how many calories do you eat a day??
Click to expand...


i never eat less than 3000 calories every day, when i followed mass cycle last winter i got 3500 calories everyday.

Look my pic:

this is me on August: i was 65 kg on this pic
http://i.imgur.com/wUiYt.jpg

now i'm 73 kg...i took 8 kg with train and diet this year(i don't know how much is real muscle...i think the most part is fat) , but this is because i lost an equal amount of weight before last summer for getting more ''jacked'' lol...so in fact i'm alwaws 73-74kg during the year and 7-8 kg less during the summer.

as you can see i was so skinny and thin, and now it's only a bit better -_- . i sucks.
 
BREAKFAST

250ml Milk
150gr Yoghurt
40gr Myofusion

MIDDLE MORNING

40gr whey

LAUNCH

250gr pasta
250gr of meat (chicken or beef) or same amount of salmon
various vegetables (potatos, spinach, carrots, tomatoes..it depends from day to day)
1 fruit

MIDDLE DAY (and this is also my pre workout - 2 hours before it)

200ml milk with chocolate
40gr Myofusion

POST WO

fast glucides + whey + bcaa (i get bcaa also before wo)

DINNER

as launch or similar

before goind to bed: caseine or myofusion with 15-20gr of nuts

i know i will do something wrong...this is my actual diet, but i tried many different diet, dosages ecc.ecc...
 
I only had a quick glance over your diet but you need more whole foods, relying too much on shakes bro.

I have 1-2 shakes max a day and am eating 3500 cals a day, meant to enjoy bulking, eat more food! haha :D
 
Add some eggs in for breakfast and things like chicken, pork, steak, and fish in your other meals. Also consume a good amount of brown rice during the day and some oats in the morning. Look into n2bulk for before bed, can find at mrsupps.com.
 
You are consuming your calories in shakes. This is not good. Shakes are meant to be an addition to your diet, not make up your diet. Eat 6-8 food meals a day plus 1-2 shakes. Get your nutrition from whole foods. And most importantly eat like the man you want to be, not the man you are. If you wanna be 220 than eat like a 220lb man.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
 
could i eat cottage cheese before spleeping? is it a good idea?

ok, i'll try again eggs in the morning and more oat during the day, i already tested..
 
i saw your pic.. seems like you are going for that beach body look and enjoy swimming etc.

don't run deca man, you won't like the results.. you will bloat, you will get deca gut, you will be eating a lot. dont run a bulker. seems to me something like primo would be perfect for you. unless I'm wrong and you want to get bigger, you will also put on fat on deca no doubt.
 
stevesmi said:
i saw your pic.. seems like you are going for that beach body look and enjoy swimming etc.

don't run deca man, you won't like the results.. you will bloat, you will get deca gut, you will be eating a lot. dont run a bulker. seems to me something like primo would be perfect for you. unless I'm wrong and you want to get bigger, you will also put on fat on deca no doubt.
Click to expand...

yes you understood ^^ i don't want to bulk, i just want to put some lean mass, i know primobolan would be perfect for me but it's hard to find in italy and maybe really expensive for me, could winstrol bring to similar results?
 
ITA said:
yes you understood ^^ i don't want to bulk, i just want to put some lean mass, i know primobolan would be perfect for me but it's hard to find in italy and maybe really expensive for me, could winstrol bring to similar results?
Click to expand...

winny can be just as expensive as primo (atleast the injectable form). only difference being winny you can get away with 4 weeks,primo needs to be run much longer.

another option are anavar, masteron... which are expensive as well compared to the cheaper AAS.

the cheaper AAS you will discover are the ones that either have harsher sides or are aromatizing compounds which you said you wanted to avoid. however you can run them with an anti estrogen and flush that water weight, but you will still bulk on something like dbol, test or deca because they will increase your appetite and are calorie dependent for best results. (so if you are gonna run them you need to run them right or don't even waste your time, meaning you need to EAT on them) keep in mind also i used to be a great swimmer/triathlete, after i ran deca/test/dbol bulker after that i haven't been able to swim a lick since, i sink like a rock. yeah i can swim but its like a struggle for me now.

primo is NOT calorie dependent, which is why i recommended it for you. good things cost :) so you will gain good lean muscle and some strength, and you will avoid any water weight.

in the end YOU need to decide what you want. you have a very good base to work with, and based on your goals you may want to just stick to what you are doing and stay natural for a while longer till you are confident or save enough money to run a cycle with the compounds you want.
 
stevesmi said:
winny can be just as expensive as primo (atleast the injectable form). only difference being winny you can get away with 4 weeks,primo needs to be run much longer.

another option are anavar, masteron... which are expensive as well compared to the cheaper AAS.

the cheaper AAS you will discover are the ones that either have harsher sides or are aromatizing compounds which you said you wanted to avoid. however you can run them with an anti estrogen and flush that water weight, but you will still bulk on something like dbol, test or deca because they will increase your appetite and are calorie dependent for best results. (so if you are gonna run them you need to run them right or don't even waste your time, meaning you need to EAT on them) keep in mind also i used to be a great swimmer/triathlete, after i ran deca/test/dbol bulker after that i haven't been able to swim a lick since, i sink like a rock. yeah i can swim but its like a struggle for me now.

primo is NOT calorie dependent, which is why i recommended it for you. good things cost :) so you will gain good lean muscle and some strength, and you will avoid any water weight.

in the end YOU need to decide what you want. you have a very good base to work with, and based on your goals you may want to just stick to what you are doing and stay natural for a while longer till you are confident or save enough money to run a cycle with the compounds you want.
Click to expand...

^^^^^great advice here.
 
I suggest you do Test 250mg EW and also run one of these: Equipoiose, Winstrol, Anavar, Masteron, Turinabol, Superdrol (beastdrol). If you do that, your physique will just be enhanced all around. Bigger and more muscular with little bloat and estrogen. You should come out looking great.
 
ITA said:
BREAKFAST

250ml Milk
150gr Yoghurt
40gr Myofusion

MIDDLE MORNING

40gr whey

LAUNCH

250gr pasta
250gr of meat (chicken or beef) or same amount of salmon
various vegetables (potatos, spinach, carrots, tomatoes..it depends from day to day)
1 fruit

MIDDLE DAY (and this is also my pre workout - 2 hours before it)

200ml milk with chocolate
40gr Myofusion

POST WO

fast glucides + whey + bcaa (i get bcaa also before wo)

DINNER

as launch or similar

before goind to bed: caseine or myofusion with 15-20gr of nuts

i know i will do something wrong...this is my actual diet, but i tried many different diet, dosages ecc.ecc...
Click to expand...

Doesn't look too bad to me bro, the guys are right though, swap some of the shakes for eggs, swap potatoes for sweet potatoes, try swapping the pasta for rice as well and eat more fruit, it looks like you have 1 piece of fruit per day! Other than that it looks very similar to my diet apart from all the meat. If you truly eat that and dont grow something's wrong, I'm 30kg heavier than you and I gain weight on 3,500+ cals per day.
 
stevesmi said:
winny can be just as expensive as primo (atleast the injectable form). only difference being winny you can get away with 4 weeks,primo needs to be run much longer.

another option are anavar, masteron... which are expensive as well compared to the cheaper AAS.

the cheaper AAS you will discover are the ones that either have harsher sides or are aromatizing compounds which you said you wanted to avoid. however you can run them with an anti estrogen and flush that water weight, but you will still bulk on something like dbol, test or deca because they will increase your appetite and are calorie dependent for best results. (so if you are gonna run them you need to run them right or don't even waste your time, meaning you need to EAT on them) keep in mind also i used to be a great swimmer/triathlete, after i ran deca/test/dbol bulker after that i haven't been able to swim a lick since, i sink like a rock. yeah i can swim but its like a struggle for me now.

primo is NOT calorie dependent, which is why i recommended it for you. good things cost :) so you will gain good lean muscle and some strength, and you will avoid any water weight.

in the end YOU need to decide what you want. you have a very good base to work with, and based on your goals you may want to just stick to what you are doing and stay natural for a while longer till you are confident or save enough money to run a cycle with the compounds you want.
Click to expand...


really great explanation thanks...thanks for your words. now i'm seriously thinking about winstrol or primo, at the same time conanx says could be a good idea run a low dose of test e, what about that for reach my goal? maybe something like 150-200mg EW of test e and primo/winstrol?it could be fine and i will not bulk and i can control estrogens.

Can i drink winstrol depot? i red it on some forum lol...because i know it hurts so much when injected
 
Colstreamer said:
Doesn't look too bad to me bro, the guys are right though, swap some of the shakes for eggs, swap potatoes for sweet potatoes, try swapping the pasta for rice as well and eat more fruit, it looks like you have 1 piece of fruit per day! Other than that it looks very similar to my diet apart from all the meat. If you truly eat that and dont grow something's wrong, I'm 30kg heavier than you and I gain weight on 3,500+ cals per day.
Click to expand...


yes i know it's strange but as i said when i started gym i was around 90 lb...i can post a pic ahha...but could be scary xD

so in fact i gained weight and mass..
 
ITA said:
really great explanation thanks...thanks for your words. now i'm seriously thinking about winstrol or primo, at the same time conanx says could be a good idea run a low dose of test e, what about that for reach my goal? maybe something like 150-200mg EW of test e and primo/winstrol?it could be fine and i will not bulk and i can control estrogens.

Can i drink winstrol depot? i red it on some forum lol...because i know it hurts so much when injected
Click to expand...
If winstrol is water based, YES, you can drink it. The winstrol shots do hurt.

I suggest running some type of test on all cycles for wellbeing, libido, and for extrra thickness.
 
ITA said:
yes i know it's strange but as i said when i started gym i was around 90 lb...i can post a pic ahha...but could be scary xD

so in fact i gained weight and mass..
Click to expand...

You've done well then, 80lbs up, you nearly doubled your bodyweight :)

You're already eating like a 105kg man so good luck bro :)
 
ConanX said:
If winstrol is water based, YES, you can drink it. The winstrol shots do hurt.

I suggest running some type of test on all cycles for wellbeing, libido, and for extrra thickness.
Click to expand...


ok, i'll do thanks! but i had read that if you want to run winstrol but you won't inject so it's non sense to spend more for have inectable form, so i think i'll get oral form. wha t about liver toxicity? are they toxic in the same way? ( if i drink winstrol depot i mean..)
are 8 weeks to much for the oral form?
sorry for all my questions :worried:
 
I would say if you don't want to inject then you Re better off getting the oral form. Yes it will be toxic (any oral aas is) but take something like n2guard and you will be fine (it has been tested with blood work to show how effective it is). Would suggest 6weeks if you are going to do it, 8is pushing it in my opinion.
 
LetsGrow said:
I would say if you don't want to inject then you Re better off getting the oral form. Yes it will be toxic (any oral aas is) but take something like n2guard and you will be fine (it has been tested with blood work to show how effective it is). Would suggest 6weeks if you are going to do it, 8is pushing it in my opinion.
Click to expand...

i can't buy n2guard...in italy it's illegal and the importation will be blocked to the aiport, there are strong controls lol. i'll run oral winstrol for 6 weeks so..thx for advice. what about dosage in order to avoid complications? my trainer (the same who told me to run deca for 8 weeks without pct...) told me to get 10mg 2 time a day...so 20mg every day...
 
With winstrol at 20mg/day you will be wasting your money. 50mg is a better starting dose.
 
On a separate note I would completely stop talking to that guy. He is dumber than a rock and will end up messing you up bad if you listen to him.
 
ITA said:
i can't buy n2guard...in italy it's illegal and the importation will be blocked to the aiport, there are strong controls lol. i'll run oral winstrol for 6 weeks so..thx for advice. what about dosage in order to avoid complications? my trainer (the same who told me to run deca for 8 weeks without pct...) told me to get 10mg 2 time a day...so 20mg every day...
Click to expand...

Why do you think N2guard is illegal in Italy? Have you looked at what's in it? I just googled most of the ingredients and they're are available as separate supplements in Italy. The rest is vitamins and some amino acids herbs etc.
 
Colstreamer said:
Why do you think N2guard is illegal in Italy? Have you looked at what's in it? I just googled most of the ingredients and they're are available as separate supplements in Italy. The rest is vitamins and some amino acids herbs etc.
Click to expand...

last year i bought zma + proteins on internet from USA and everything was blocked. summplements not coming from EU can't enter. Last time i lost all my money and i paid also 40 Euro (~70$) for airport taxes or something like that, i don't want to get risk anymore :P

later i'll go to ''preorder'' test and primo if i can, if i can't i'll go for test+winny. and nolvadex of course..
 
LetsGrow said:
On a separate note I would completely stop talking to that guy. He is dumber than a rock and will end up messing you up bad if you listen to him.
Click to expand...

fortunately i think i'm not dumb like who follows his advices and i and asked you guys...trainers in italy do that for money only, they don't know anything about diet and weights lift too...so you can understand what they know about AAS...
 
ITA said:
last year i bought zma + proteins on internet from USA and everything was blocked. summplements not coming from EU can't enter. Last time i lost all my money and i paid also 40 Euro (~70$) for airport taxes or something like that, i don't want to get risk anymore :P

later i'll go to ''preorder'' test and primo if i can, if i can't i'll go for test+winny. and nolvadex of course..
Click to expand...

How about supps from the UK? You can get most of the NTBM supps these guys are talking about from predator nutrition a UK based company.
 
Go with 50mg of the winny every day and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised of how you look at the end of 6 weeks. Make sure you train hard!
 
ConanX said:
Go with 50mg of the winny every day and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised of how you look at the end of 6 weeks. Make sure you train hard!
Click to expand...

i prefer starting with lower doses od winny, maybe 40mg ED for max 5 weeks because i want to run also 200-250mg of test e for 8 weeks...it's the first cycle i don't know how my body will respond :(
 
50mg/day is pretty conservative. There are guys who run up to 100mg/day so font worry about it. Start at 50mg
 
i have another question...my friend got some deca and his vials are 400mg/each and he would like to run only 300mg/week, if the vial is opened, should the product be used immediatly or can he preserve it for 1 week into anothe syringe for the next injection?
 
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