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Syntrax's new prohormones
- Thread starter NYC BOY
- Start date
enrage
New member
I've seen some bad press about 5-AD. I think brock strasser made some valid points about it.
Brock Strasser 2001-09-02 22:54:01
It is absolute crap!!! And it is estrogenic as hell. 5-AD sucks. I have 4 references that correlate high 5-AD levels to pseudohermaphroditism in men. Plus, the pentyl ether technology is a waste and just a slick gimmick, Bill and I investigated this over a year ago and we dropped it. This guys stole the idea from us. Read these studies and see how the maker of this shit lies like a rug. 5-AD sucks. It is marginally anabolic, hardly converts to testosterone and is totally estrogenic. See below:
Cancer Res 1982 Nov;42(11):4797-4800 Related Articles, Books, Effects of aminoglutethimide on delta 5-androstenediol metabolism in postmenopausal women with breast cancer. Bird CE, Masters V, Sterns EE, Clark AF.
delta-5-Androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol has potential estrogenic activity because it is known to bind to receptors and translocate to the nucleus of certain estrogen target tissues. We studied delta 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol metabolism in postmenopausal women with breast cancer before and during aminoglutethimide-plus-hydrocortisone therapy, utilizing the constant infusion technique. The metabolic clearance rate for five subjects was 799 +/- 89 liters/24 hr (470 +/- 47 liters/24 hr/sq m) before and 751 +/- 93 liters/24 hr (444 +/- 57 liters/24 hr/sq m) during therapy. Plasma delta 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol and delta 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol free index decreased despite absence of change in the metabolic clearance rate. Increased dehydroepiandrosterone/delta 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol conversion ratios in individual patients suggested an increase in 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity during therapy. There were no alterations in the formation of the estrogen precursors testosterone and delta 4-androstene-3,17-dione.
5-AD stimulates the growth of estrogen dependent breast cancers!!!
Ann Endocrinol (Paris) 1979;40(6):547-548 Related Articles, Books [In vitro studies of testicular biosynthesis in 4 cases of male pseudohermaphrodism (MPH) due to testicular 17 ketoreductase defect (author's transl)]. [Article in French] de Peretti E, Cadillon E, Bertrand J. In 3 cases of MPH due to 17-ketosteroid reductase defect, the pattern of testicular biosynthesis studied after incubating homogenates of testicular tissue with 14C-Progesterone and 3H-Pregnenolone was very similar. The most striking finding was the excessive production of delta 4-Androstenedione contrasting with the small amount of testosterone formed. Conversion of DHA to delta 5-Androstenediol was also limited. In addition, 3 pairs of substrates, namely 14C-testosterone and 3H-delta 4-androstenedione; 14C-estradiol and 3H-estrone; 14C-delta 5-androstenediol and 3H-DHA, were incubated for various length of time. Homogenates of testicular tissue from 2 cases presenting with the biosynthetic defect were studied as to compare to testicular tissues from 2 subjects with normal testicular biosynthesis. Different degrees in the impairment of the reduction or the oxydation were observed for the different pairs of substrates in pathological as well as in normal tissues. This suggests that the extent of the enzyme defect would differ for the 3 pairs of substrates.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1992 Sep;75(3):773-778 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
Mechanisms of androgen production in male pseudohermaphroditism due to 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency. Rosler A, Belanger A, Labrie F. Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Hebrew University-Hadassah Medical Center, Jerusalem, Israel. 17 beta-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17 beta HSD) deficiency is a rare cause of male pseudohermaphroditism, but is a frequent disorder among a highly inbred Arab population in the Gaza strip. Affected individuals are born and reared as females until puberty, when marked virilization occurs, leading in many cases to the spontaneous adoption of a male gender role. To investigate the mechanisms and site(s) of androgen production, we determined the gonadal and extragonadal steroid patterns in two postpubertal male pseudohermaphroditism patients, who were castrated and reared as females. Before castration, both patients had very high plasma levels of androstenedione (delta 4-A), normal or moderately low levels of testosterone (T), and significantly elevated delta 4-A/T ratios (P less than 0.01). Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels were normal or high, while the DHT/T ratios were lower than normal (P less than 0.01), suggesting enhanced 5 alpha-reductase activity. These abnormalities were much more severe in spermatic venous blood. 17 beta HSD deficiency was also found in the delta 5-pathway, by high dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) levels and very high dehydroxyepiandrosterone/delta 5-androstenediol (DHEA/delta 5-diol) ratios, and in peripheral tissue metabolites, by very high androsterone glucuronide/3 alpha-androstanediol glucuronide ratios (P less than 0.01). The estrogen pathway was also impaired (P less than 0.01), even though both estrone and estradiol levels were elevated. Gonadectomy significantly reduced all androgens and estrogens (P less than 0.01), but when compared to 42 castrated controls, both patients had lower delta 4-A and higher T levels. The delta 4-A/T ratio was lower than that in controls, indicating normal to enhanced extragonadal 17 beta HSD activity. A similar pattern was observed in the delta 5- and estrogen pathways. DHT levels were within normal limits, and 3 alpha-diol was moderately decreased. These data suggest that testicular 17 beta HSD activity is under a different genetic control from that in extragonadal tissues. Affected males lack the testicular enzyme, but their extragonadal 17 beta HSD activity is normal or enhanced. Together with enhanced 5 alpha-reductase activity, this represents a highly efficient compensatory mechanism for androgen and estrogen production after puberty.
5-AD is worse than a waste, it is counterproductive unless you are a transexual. - Brock
Brock Strasser 2001-09-02 22:54:01
It is absolute crap!!! And it is estrogenic as hell. 5-AD sucks. I have 4 references that correlate high 5-AD levels to pseudohermaphroditism in men. Plus, the pentyl ether technology is a waste and just a slick gimmick, Bill and I investigated this over a year ago and we dropped it. This guys stole the idea from us. Read these studies and see how the maker of this shit lies like a rug. 5-AD sucks. It is marginally anabolic, hardly converts to testosterone and is totally estrogenic. See below:
Cancer Res 1982 Nov;42(11):4797-4800 Related Articles, Books, Effects of aminoglutethimide on delta 5-androstenediol metabolism in postmenopausal women with breast cancer. Bird CE, Masters V, Sterns EE, Clark AF.
delta-5-Androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol has potential estrogenic activity because it is known to bind to receptors and translocate to the nucleus of certain estrogen target tissues. We studied delta 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol metabolism in postmenopausal women with breast cancer before and during aminoglutethimide-plus-hydrocortisone therapy, utilizing the constant infusion technique. The metabolic clearance rate for five subjects was 799 +/- 89 liters/24 hr (470 +/- 47 liters/24 hr/sq m) before and 751 +/- 93 liters/24 hr (444 +/- 57 liters/24 hr/sq m) during therapy. Plasma delta 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol and delta 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol free index decreased despite absence of change in the metabolic clearance rate. Increased dehydroepiandrosterone/delta 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol conversion ratios in individual patients suggested an increase in 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity during therapy. There were no alterations in the formation of the estrogen precursors testosterone and delta 4-androstene-3,17-dione.
5-AD stimulates the growth of estrogen dependent breast cancers!!!
Ann Endocrinol (Paris) 1979;40(6):547-548 Related Articles, Books [In vitro studies of testicular biosynthesis in 4 cases of male pseudohermaphrodism (MPH) due to testicular 17 ketoreductase defect (author's transl)]. [Article in French] de Peretti E, Cadillon E, Bertrand J. In 3 cases of MPH due to 17-ketosteroid reductase defect, the pattern of testicular biosynthesis studied after incubating homogenates of testicular tissue with 14C-Progesterone and 3H-Pregnenolone was very similar. The most striking finding was the excessive production of delta 4-Androstenedione contrasting with the small amount of testosterone formed. Conversion of DHA to delta 5-Androstenediol was also limited. In addition, 3 pairs of substrates, namely 14C-testosterone and 3H-delta 4-androstenedione; 14C-estradiol and 3H-estrone; 14C-delta 5-androstenediol and 3H-DHA, were incubated for various length of time. Homogenates of testicular tissue from 2 cases presenting with the biosynthetic defect were studied as to compare to testicular tissues from 2 subjects with normal testicular biosynthesis. Different degrees in the impairment of the reduction or the oxydation were observed for the different pairs of substrates in pathological as well as in normal tissues. This suggests that the extent of the enzyme defect would differ for the 3 pairs of substrates.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1992 Sep;75(3):773-778 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
Mechanisms of androgen production in male pseudohermaphroditism due to 17 beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency. Rosler A, Belanger A, Labrie F. Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Hebrew University-Hadassah Medical Center, Jerusalem, Israel. 17 beta-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17 beta HSD) deficiency is a rare cause of male pseudohermaphroditism, but is a frequent disorder among a highly inbred Arab population in the Gaza strip. Affected individuals are born and reared as females until puberty, when marked virilization occurs, leading in many cases to the spontaneous adoption of a male gender role. To investigate the mechanisms and site(s) of androgen production, we determined the gonadal and extragonadal steroid patterns in two postpubertal male pseudohermaphroditism patients, who were castrated and reared as females. Before castration, both patients had very high plasma levels of androstenedione (delta 4-A), normal or moderately low levels of testosterone (T), and significantly elevated delta 4-A/T ratios (P less than 0.01). Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels were normal or high, while the DHT/T ratios were lower than normal (P less than 0.01), suggesting enhanced 5 alpha-reductase activity. These abnormalities were much more severe in spermatic venous blood. 17 beta HSD deficiency was also found in the delta 5-pathway, by high dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) levels and very high dehydroxyepiandrosterone/delta 5-androstenediol (DHEA/delta 5-diol) ratios, and in peripheral tissue metabolites, by very high androsterone glucuronide/3 alpha-androstanediol glucuronide ratios (P less than 0.01). The estrogen pathway was also impaired (P less than 0.01), even though both estrone and estradiol levels were elevated. Gonadectomy significantly reduced all androgens and estrogens (P less than 0.01), but when compared to 42 castrated controls, both patients had lower delta 4-A and higher T levels. The delta 4-A/T ratio was lower than that in controls, indicating normal to enhanced extragonadal 17 beta HSD activity. A similar pattern was observed in the delta 5- and estrogen pathways. DHT levels were within normal limits, and 3 alpha-diol was moderately decreased. These data suggest that testicular 17 beta HSD activity is under a different genetic control from that in extragonadal tissues. Affected males lack the testicular enzyme, but their extragonadal 17 beta HSD activity is normal or enhanced. Together with enhanced 5 alpha-reductase activity, this represents a highly efficient compensatory mechanism for androgen and estrogen production after puberty.
5-AD is worse than a waste, it is counterproductive unless you are a transexual. - Brock
R
riskybiz007
Guest
thanks for the heads up. gotta be careful
Enrage,
Any articles like the ones you found for 5-ad about 4-Androstendiol? I bought some Ergopharm cyclo-diol SR, but haven't started using it yet....with the article you posted about 5-ad, I'm wondering if I should just pitch it straight in the trash, or give it a shot...
Any articles like the ones you found for 5-ad about 4-Androstendiol? I bought some Ergopharm cyclo-diol SR, but haven't started using it yet....with the article you posted about 5-ad, I'm wondering if I should just pitch it straight in the trash, or give it a shot...
Enrage,
Any articles like the ones you found for 5-ad about 4-Androstendiol? I bought some Ergopharm cyclo-diol SR, but haven't started using it yet....with the article you posted about 5-ad, I'm wondering if I should just pitch it straight in the trash, or give it a shot...
Any articles like the ones you found for 5-ad about 4-Androstendiol? I bought some Ergopharm cyclo-diol SR, but haven't started using it yet....with the article you posted about 5-ad, I'm wondering if I should just pitch it straight in the trash, or give it a shot...
Big Kahuna
New member
Pentabol Extreme
Brock Strasser aka Jock Strapper is a MORON and that is not even his real name...he is anti Syntrax and can not be trusted!
Do research on 5-AD, it is not the best prohormone but it does have its applications and the technology behind the product sound and looks great...Jock Strapper himself said he was looking into "Ethers" which according to Syntrax and some pharmaceutical companies make the steroids fat soluble and orally active and according to Syntrax Pentabol Extreme is just the begining...If the Ethers are worthless like Jock Strapper says, then why were they looking into it? They ditched the product because Cornholio and Co. beat him to the punch, which has happened on numerous occasions...T-Mag is very jealous of Syntrax and their forum is a joke...time will tell how potent the ETHERS are, but on paper it looks like some truly powerfuls stuff!
Brock Strasser aka Jock Strapper is a MORON and that is not even his real name...he is anti Syntrax and can not be trusted!
Do research on 5-AD, it is not the best prohormone but it does have its applications and the technology behind the product sound and looks great...Jock Strapper himself said he was looking into "Ethers" which according to Syntrax and some pharmaceutical companies make the steroids fat soluble and orally active and according to Syntrax Pentabol Extreme is just the begining...If the Ethers are worthless like Jock Strapper says, then why were they looking into it? They ditched the product because Cornholio and Co. beat him to the punch, which has happened on numerous occasions...T-Mag is very jealous of Syntrax and their forum is a joke...time will tell how potent the ETHERS are, but on paper it looks like some truly powerfuls stuff!
Big Kahuna
New member
Oh I though you might want to hear this...Jock Strapper also said that he posted that information on the Syntrax Guestbook and it was deleted in 5 minutes...well that another Jock Strapper horse shit story...it is still up there and this is what the Syntrax moderator had to say about those comments.
Some people like the 5-diol better and some like the 4-diol better. 4-diol might be a little more anabolic but it is also more androgenic. 5-diol is safer and many people prefer it. Regarding estrogenicity, look at the studies. 4-diol and 5-diol are nearly equivalent in terms of their estrogenicity. Neither convert into estrogen but both have inherent estrogenic activity. Is this bad? Absolutely not! Look at Tamoxifen or Clomid. Both of these have slight estrogenic activity but practically they are antiestrogens. The same is true with these diols. I have talked to many people that have even injected large amounts of 5-diol and have had absolutely no problems with gyno. Remember, that 5-diol was an actual prescription anabolic steroid in European countries!
I will put my money on Syntrax any day!
Some people like the 5-diol better and some like the 4-diol better. 4-diol might be a little more anabolic but it is also more androgenic. 5-diol is safer and many people prefer it. Regarding estrogenicity, look at the studies. 4-diol and 5-diol are nearly equivalent in terms of their estrogenicity. Neither convert into estrogen but both have inherent estrogenic activity. Is this bad? Absolutely not! Look at Tamoxifen or Clomid. Both of these have slight estrogenic activity but practically they are antiestrogens. The same is true with these diols. I have talked to many people that have even injected large amounts of 5-diol and have had absolutely no problems with gyno. Remember, that 5-diol was an actual prescription anabolic steroid in European countries!
I will put my money on Syntrax any day!
fhg43
New member
I had this huge reply prepared and canned it. However Big Kahuna basically said the same thing I was going to say.
I'd keep on using the 5-diols. Every AAS and PH is slightly estrogenic; thats the nature of these hormones. I got this off AST's website. Granted they are trying to sell something, but they seem to have done their research and they are pretty selective about the products they put out. It is a good article with some good points. Read on:
This is from Paul Delia's Q & A on AST's website.
Q: I'm confused about the whole testosterone - estrogen - aromatization issue. I know from experience that the more an androgenic hormone aromatizes the more effective at building muscle it is. Any time I try to stop this aromatization then the hormone's muscle building effects go way down. Can you explain why this happens and why companies sell anti-estrogen supplements?
A:
First off, I have yet to see any supplement company/magazine exhibit a true understanding of the key hormonal involvements in muscle growth with respect to testosterone and its unmitigated reliance on estrogen.
The layman "researchers" that are writing articles in many of the fitness magazines and the individuals that are developing (developing is probably the wrong choice of words) products for supplement companies are apparently oblivious to the fact that estrogen is actually an integral and necessary piece to the hormone puzzle as it relates to testosterone's effect on building muscle. In fact, without estrogen testosterone's (the primary muscle building hormone) effects on muscle growth is greatly diminished.
What you mostly read about estrogen from the "experts" (I use this term very lightly) is that it's a bodybuilder's worst enemy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Estrogen is not a bodybuilder's worst enemy. It is a key hormone necessary for the full anabolic effects of testosterone.
To understand this you have to realize the close relationship shared between estrogen and testosterone. Estrogen acts a receptor trigger for testosterone. In fact, estrogen is responsible for signaling the androgen receptor to accept testosterone. Reducing the amount of estrogen available for receptor (a receptor is a protein molecule on the surface of a cell that binds or accepts hormone molecule) signaling can reduce circulating androgens from binding to the receptor sites by 30 fold. In essence, reducing circulating estrogen makes the circulating androgens 30 times less effective.
Men and women produce both testosterone and estrogen. Men of course produce more testosterone than women and women produce more estrogen than men. But men also produce estrogen. What most "experts" don't realize is that there is a reason men produce estrogen and that reason is to assist the function of testosterone.
Men produce estrogen in two ways. One is through natural hormone production in the testes and another way is through the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen. This is where the mass confusion and complete misunderstanding of estrogen in men comes in. Aromatization is not a nasty out of control side effect of excess testosterone. It's is more of a precisely controlled hormonal equilibrium modulator that specifically assists the utilization of testosterone.
In other words, aromatization is a necessary function in the hormone pathway to produce the very hormone, estrogen, necessary to trigger or signal the androgen receptors. Without aromatization, testosterone would only mildly exert its effects. Aromatization has been completely misunderstood and misinterpreted by all but a few immensely perceptive researchers. And because of this the athletic population has been led down the wrong path of hormonal understanding.
The reason you have a corresponding increase in estrogen when you increase your levels of testosterone is to provide the key, if you will, to unlock the door so that testosterone can exert it's anabolic effects (protein synthesis, muscle growth, strength increase) within the muscle.
Because estrogen is a female hormone it is associated with female characteristics. This association has carried over to effects in men as well, but at the expense of a true understanding of why men need estrogen. Because of this the "experts" have mistakenly coined estrogen as an unwanted hormone in men. Not only is it wanted, but for maximum anabolic effects it is needed.
Following the "experts" advice and taking drugs (Nolvadex) or supplements (Chrysin and IC3) designed to blunt or reduce aromatization will actually diminish, not only supplemental testosterone, but your natural testosterone as well. In other words, taking supplements like Chrysin will diminish the anabolic effects of your naturally occurring testosterone.
It's not just about increasing your testosterone that helps increase muscle mass and strength, it's about enhancing the total hormonal supply to allow for full androgen receptor participation. Any time you increase testosterone you have to have a corresponding increase in estrogen to utilize this testosterone increase. You can jack your testosterone levels to the the moon, but if corresponding estrogen is blocked or eliminated the increased testosterone will have very little effect on muscle growth.
The only time estrogen presents a problem is when you have too much. Then you may see estrogenic side effects. However, the way to go about minimizing this is not by blunting or eliminating estrogen (remember, this will diminish testosterone's muscle building properties). What you need to do is supply a more accurate increase in testosterone with natural correlating estrogen assistance. In other words, find out the maximum increase in testosterone your body will use and maintain this level without going over.
So what you need to do is boost your testosterone levels to the point where you realize the muscle building effects of this increase and not past this level to where you experience residual estrogen effects due to unused testosterone. In other words, if the level of testosterone increase causes a noticeable estrogenic effect then the increase is too much and your body will not utilize or benefit from the excess. You do not combat this excess with anti-estrogen compounds. You simply lower the level of the testosterone increase.
This is where everyone drops the ball. Wouldn't it be nice if we could capture all the positive effects of testosterone and eliminate all the negative effects from estrogen? Well wake up. It doesn't work like that, it can't work like that, and it won't work like that. Your body is a much more complicated machine than these "yo-yo" supplement shysters would have you to believe. Let make something else clear here. It's not always that these supplement companies are out to scam you. In fact, that probably happens less than I elude to. The main problem is they simply are not educated enough to truly understand the complexities of ergogenic performance enhancement. Through their ignorance they market flawed and worthless supplements that they actually think are good. And since they do no research their supplements hit the market and are backed entirely on hype and disinformation.
Supplement companies that are selling "anti-estrogen" supplements are doing you a grave injustice because of their own ignorance of testosterone's physiological effects. Honestly, when I read the ads and promotional material these companies are using to promote their products it looks like they've gleaned their knowledge from a newspaper article. Most likely the comic section. It's more than obvious few companies employ individuals that possess the skills to interpret and disseminate the real research. A casual look at the ads in the magazines solidifies this.
I'm not saying this just to slam other supplement companies. I'm just trying to show you how truly amateurish and far from the real research these companies really are. And ultimately it slaps the consumer right in the face. You see, when it's all said and done these supplement companies still rake in the cash while the consumers that fall for their product are left with nothing but a smaller bank account, empty supplement bottles, and no results to show for it.
FHG
I'd keep on using the 5-diols. Every AAS and PH is slightly estrogenic; thats the nature of these hormones. I got this off AST's website. Granted they are trying to sell something, but they seem to have done their research and they are pretty selective about the products they put out. It is a good article with some good points. Read on:
This is from Paul Delia's Q & A on AST's website.
Q: I'm confused about the whole testosterone - estrogen - aromatization issue. I know from experience that the more an androgenic hormone aromatizes the more effective at building muscle it is. Any time I try to stop this aromatization then the hormone's muscle building effects go way down. Can you explain why this happens and why companies sell anti-estrogen supplements?
A:
First off, I have yet to see any supplement company/magazine exhibit a true understanding of the key hormonal involvements in muscle growth with respect to testosterone and its unmitigated reliance on estrogen.
The layman "researchers" that are writing articles in many of the fitness magazines and the individuals that are developing (developing is probably the wrong choice of words) products for supplement companies are apparently oblivious to the fact that estrogen is actually an integral and necessary piece to the hormone puzzle as it relates to testosterone's effect on building muscle. In fact, without estrogen testosterone's (the primary muscle building hormone) effects on muscle growth is greatly diminished.
What you mostly read about estrogen from the "experts" (I use this term very lightly) is that it's a bodybuilder's worst enemy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Estrogen is not a bodybuilder's worst enemy. It is a key hormone necessary for the full anabolic effects of testosterone.
To understand this you have to realize the close relationship shared between estrogen and testosterone. Estrogen acts a receptor trigger for testosterone. In fact, estrogen is responsible for signaling the androgen receptor to accept testosterone. Reducing the amount of estrogen available for receptor (a receptor is a protein molecule on the surface of a cell that binds or accepts hormone molecule) signaling can reduce circulating androgens from binding to the receptor sites by 30 fold. In essence, reducing circulating estrogen makes the circulating androgens 30 times less effective.
Men and women produce both testosterone and estrogen. Men of course produce more testosterone than women and women produce more estrogen than men. But men also produce estrogen. What most "experts" don't realize is that there is a reason men produce estrogen and that reason is to assist the function of testosterone.
Men produce estrogen in two ways. One is through natural hormone production in the testes and another way is through the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen. This is where the mass confusion and complete misunderstanding of estrogen in men comes in. Aromatization is not a nasty out of control side effect of excess testosterone. It's is more of a precisely controlled hormonal equilibrium modulator that specifically assists the utilization of testosterone.
In other words, aromatization is a necessary function in the hormone pathway to produce the very hormone, estrogen, necessary to trigger or signal the androgen receptors. Without aromatization, testosterone would only mildly exert its effects. Aromatization has been completely misunderstood and misinterpreted by all but a few immensely perceptive researchers. And because of this the athletic population has been led down the wrong path of hormonal understanding.
The reason you have a corresponding increase in estrogen when you increase your levels of testosterone is to provide the key, if you will, to unlock the door so that testosterone can exert it's anabolic effects (protein synthesis, muscle growth, strength increase) within the muscle.
Because estrogen is a female hormone it is associated with female characteristics. This association has carried over to effects in men as well, but at the expense of a true understanding of why men need estrogen. Because of this the "experts" have mistakenly coined estrogen as an unwanted hormone in men. Not only is it wanted, but for maximum anabolic effects it is needed.
Following the "experts" advice and taking drugs (Nolvadex) or supplements (Chrysin and IC3) designed to blunt or reduce aromatization will actually diminish, not only supplemental testosterone, but your natural testosterone as well. In other words, taking supplements like Chrysin will diminish the anabolic effects of your naturally occurring testosterone.
It's not just about increasing your testosterone that helps increase muscle mass and strength, it's about enhancing the total hormonal supply to allow for full androgen receptor participation. Any time you increase testosterone you have to have a corresponding increase in estrogen to utilize this testosterone increase. You can jack your testosterone levels to the the moon, but if corresponding estrogen is blocked or eliminated the increased testosterone will have very little effect on muscle growth.
The only time estrogen presents a problem is when you have too much. Then you may see estrogenic side effects. However, the way to go about minimizing this is not by blunting or eliminating estrogen (remember, this will diminish testosterone's muscle building properties). What you need to do is supply a more accurate increase in testosterone with natural correlating estrogen assistance. In other words, find out the maximum increase in testosterone your body will use and maintain this level without going over.
So what you need to do is boost your testosterone levels to the point where you realize the muscle building effects of this increase and not past this level to where you experience residual estrogen effects due to unused testosterone. In other words, if the level of testosterone increase causes a noticeable estrogenic effect then the increase is too much and your body will not utilize or benefit from the excess. You do not combat this excess with anti-estrogen compounds. You simply lower the level of the testosterone increase.
This is where everyone drops the ball. Wouldn't it be nice if we could capture all the positive effects of testosterone and eliminate all the negative effects from estrogen? Well wake up. It doesn't work like that, it can't work like that, and it won't work like that. Your body is a much more complicated machine than these "yo-yo" supplement shysters would have you to believe. Let make something else clear here. It's not always that these supplement companies are out to scam you. In fact, that probably happens less than I elude to. The main problem is they simply are not educated enough to truly understand the complexities of ergogenic performance enhancement. Through their ignorance they market flawed and worthless supplements that they actually think are good. And since they do no research their supplements hit the market and are backed entirely on hype and disinformation.
Supplement companies that are selling "anti-estrogen" supplements are doing you a grave injustice because of their own ignorance of testosterone's physiological effects. Honestly, when I read the ads and promotional material these companies are using to promote their products it looks like they've gleaned their knowledge from a newspaper article. Most likely the comic section. It's more than obvious few companies employ individuals that possess the skills to interpret and disseminate the real research. A casual look at the ads in the magazines solidifies this.
I'm not saying this just to slam other supplement companies. I'm just trying to show you how truly amateurish and far from the real research these companies really are. And ultimately it slaps the consumer right in the face. You see, when it's all said and done these supplement companies still rake in the cash while the consumers that fall for their product are left with nothing but a smaller bank account, empty supplement bottles, and no results to show for it.
FHG
get lost jock strapper
come on jock, we dont need people on this board that represent supplement companies and then bash other supplement companies becauise it is in their vested interests. stay off this board, keep your ass on testosterone or where ever you hang out. or maybe you can post your propaganda somewhere on eas.com
come on jock, we dont need people on this board that represent supplement companies and then bash other supplement companies becauise it is in their vested interests. stay off this board, keep your ass on testosterone or where ever you hang out. or maybe you can post your propaganda somewhere on eas.com
R
riskybiz007
Guest
what confusion... i hate this cuz a lot of people can get burned
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