The Official PCT of 2010!

[jdmajor9700]

I'm new to this forum and I just have to say there is so much relevance and content within these threads. I especially found this post to be proof positive I'm in the right company!

 

[C.K.]

Im on week 2 of pct coming off a 2 month tren cycle using Nolvadex 40 mgs/ day, HARDCORE TEST and a cortisol blocker my sex drive is coming back from having ZERO the entire cycle waking up with rock hard ons and i havent lost a pound infact some of my lifts have gone up... maybe cuz my muscles are holding a lil more water since coming off the tren :]

 

[Nomadic Dreamer]

subscribed.

 

[SuperStrong]

For a 16 week cycle (and I assume this applies to 20-22 week mild cycles as well...or do I take higher dose per week or more frequent dosing?), for someone who hasn't incorporated hcg throughout the cycle, you said to do one shot of 1000iu hcg per week for three weeks. I was wondering though if I can split it up into two 500iu shots maybe one shot every third or fourth day? The reason I am wondering about splitting up to 500iu is I read the following info that advises against going over 500iu hcg, and that it's better to just split it up throughout the week instead of one large dose higher than 500iu. Here is the info, would you let me know what your thoughts are regarding this:


"Swale's PCT protocol. He is a doctor (HRT specialist):

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of hcg (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of hcg per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when hcg is so inexpensive."

 

[SuperStrong]

You recommended Toremifene as a better substitute for Nolvadex, but I was researching that and found the following study which doesn't look to promising as a nolva replacement. What are your thoughts? Thanks


====

Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 2000;45(5):402-8. Related Articles, Links
Dose-dependent hormonal effects of toremifene in postmenopausal breast cancer patients.

Ellmen J, Werner D, Hakulinen P, Keiling R, Fargeot P, Falkson G, Bezwoda WR.

Orion Corporation, Orion Pharma, Clinical R & D, Turku, Finland. [email protected]

PURPOSE: The purpose of the study was to compare hormonal effects of three toremifene doses, 20 mg (TOR20), 40 mg (TOR40) and 60 mg (TOR60) administered daily, in postmenopausal women with advanced breast cancer. METHODS: The study was randomized and open label in three parallel groups. Biochemical variables were identified as the serum concentrations of follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), luteinizing hormone (LH) and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). The changes were compared with objective clinical responses and to progression-free time. Adverse reactions and liver function test (aspartate aminotransferase, ASAT) were assessed for safety. RESULTS: A total of 260 patients were randomly grouped (90 to TOR20, 81 to TOR40 and 89 to TOR60). Of these patients 29, 29 and 22 completed at least 3 months of treatment and the results were analyzed for biochemical variables. All treatments had intrinsic estrogen agonist activity by decreasing of serum FSH and LH and by increasing of SHBG during the first 3 months (P < 0.01). Dose TOR20 showed slightly longer times to exert maximum estrogenic effects than did the two higher doses. No increases in liver function tests were seen in any of the groups. Objective response rates were 24.4, 39.5 and 32.6% (P = 0.01) and median times-to-progression were 206, 189 and 196 days in TOR20, TOR40 and TOR60, respectively (P = 0.913). Fewer responses were observed in the TOR20 group than in TOR40 (P = 0.05). Adverse events were reported in 19, 23 and 30 patients in the treatment groups (P = 0.20). The most frequently reported events were hot flushes and nausea. These were mostly mild or moderate, and only 1.5% of treatments was discontinued due to toxicity. CONCLUSIONS: Toremifene doses of 40 and 60 mg daily were effective and safe treatments of breast cancer in postmenopausal women, and no differences in their biochemical or clinical effects were seen. Toremifene at 20 mg/day had similar but slightly less potent antiestrogenic and estrogenic effects than the two higher doses.

 

[skaman007]

For a 16 week cycle (and I assume this applies to 20-22 week mild cycles as well...or do I take higher dose per week or more frequent dosing?), for someone who hasn't incorporated hcg throughout the cycle, you said to do one shot of 1000iu hcg per week for three weeks. I was wondering though if I can split it up into two 500iu shots maybe one shot every third or fourth day? The reason I am wondering about splitting up to 500iu is I read the following info that advises against going over 500iu hcg, and that it's better to just split it up throughout the week instead of one large dose higher than 500iu. Here is the info, would you let me know what your thoughts are regarding this:


"Swale's PCT protocol. He is a doctor (HRT specialist):

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of hcg (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of hcg per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when hcg is so inexpensive."

after my 18 week test e cycLE ...eric from pp suggested i take 2500ius.....all aT ONCE....5 DAYS APART FOR 2 INJECTIONS//// then carried on with sustain and nolva for 30 days..

 

[SuperStrong]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'd love to hear Eric's input on that.

Also, Eric, I PM'd you my cycle a while back, hoping you can give me your thoughts on best way to incorporate HCG for my particular case towards the end of cycle or after cycle.

Also regarding toremifene vs. raloxifene vs. nolvadex if needed, as I pointed out a concern with the Toremifene in the above study.

Thanks,

SS

 

[Hyooj]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'd love to hear Eric's input on that.

Also, Eric, I PM'd you my cycle a while back, hoping you can give me your thoughts on best way to incorporate HCG for my particular case towards the end of cycle or after cycle.

Also regarding toremifene vs. raloxifene vs. nolvadex if needed, as I pointed out a concern with the Toremifene in the above study.

Thanks,

SS

So is the site you link to reliable? Can anyone else vouch for it? Thanks.

 

[SuperStrong]

So is the site you link to reliable? Can anyone else vouch for it? Thanks.

which one? swale's HCG protocol or the study?

The study is in pubmed: Dose-dependent hormonal effects of toremifene in p...[Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 2000] - PubMed Result

 

[Hyooj]

which one? swale's HCG protocol or the study?

The study is in pubmed: Dose-dependent hormonal effects of toremifene in p...[Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 2000] - PubMed Result

I was referring to the site he linked to get PCT (RX)