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drinking winstrol
- Thread starter Krazykat
- Start date
white boy
New member
Euriskan said:
obviously you don't understand how 17aa's work, and don't give me any more BS about simple logic, it makes no differance wether you inject or swallow them, it will make the same # of passes through the liver. some people prefer to site inject because they believe in site injected growth.
Show me the proof that it is less taxing on the liver to inject winstrol and show me proof that it is 50% more effective to inject
If injecting 17aa's were realy 50% more effective as you say, and so much easier on the liver, don't you think everyone would be injecting orals?
especially expensive stuff like anavar as it would be very easy to convert to an injectable
I am not making this shit up bro, just came from doing research before ingesting anything. This isn't coming from a friend at the gym, hell listen to your friend... I have nothing to gain from trying to help out a stranger. Drink your winny if you want, I will stick the injecting and if they are tabs will take orally. There are advantages/disadvantages to both.
I would first recommend you check out:
http://www.google.com
http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/191stras.html
Q: There's this huge debate raging over whether or not you can "drink" your Winny-V. I know that because stanozolol is 17-AA'ed, I can use it orally. However, how much more or less effective is oral stanozolol over injected stanozolol? I hear that you need about twice as much stanozolol orally as you would injected to see similar results. How was this figure of doubling the dose orally determined?
A: There isn't a lot of great pharmacokinetic data in humans comparing oral to parenteral (injectable) stanozolol. So that idea of "if you use X amount by injection you need twice as much orally" is anecdotal and speculative at best. The best I could find is a study comparing the two methods of administration in dogs. My comments come after the abstract:
The effect of stanozolol on 15-nitrogen retention in the dog
Can J Vet Res 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8 (ISSN: 0830-9000)
Olson ME; Morck DW; Quinn KB [Find other articles with these Authors] Animal Health Unit and Gastrointestinal Sciences, University of Calgary, Alberta.
The objective of the study was to determine the influence of either oral or intramuscular administration of stanozolol on nitrogen retention in dogs by using a non-invasive 15N-amino acid tracer technique. Ten healthy, intact, adult male sled dogs received either stanozolol tablets, 2 mg/dog PO, q12h, for 25 days (Group 1, n = 5) or an intramuscular injection of 25 mg of stanozolol on Days 7, 14, 21, and 28 (Group 2, n = 5). A 15N amino acid (5.27 mmol) was infused intravenously into each dog on Day 0 (before stanozolol treatment) and on Day 31 (after stanozolol treatment). Urine was collected by catheterization from each animal 3 times daily for 3 consecutive days. The 15N-urea enrichment in urine was determined by high-resolution mass spectrometry and the total amount of urea in the urine was determined.
Both oral and injectable stanozolol resulted in significant (P < 0.05) increases in amino acid nitrogen retention compared to pretreatment values. Oral stanozolol increased nitrogen retention from 29.2 +/- 8.2% to 50.3 +/- 9.2%, while stanozolol injection increased nitrogen retention from 26.6 +/- 9.9% to 67.0 +/- 7.5%. The response to intramuscular administration was significantly greater than the response to the oral dosing regime. Stanozolol increases amino acid nitrogen retention in dogs, as has been previously observed in rats. This action of stanozolol may be beneficial in dogs under stress of surgical trauma and chronic disease.
Okay, so the oral dose was 28mg/week and the injected dose was 25mg/week. And the injected dose was far better at increasing nitrogen retention (67.0% versus 50.3%). This makes it about 33.2% better (roughly speaking), so if I extrapolate, it means to see the same effects as 25mg of injected stanozolol per week, you'd need to take about 38mg of it orally.
This isn't quite "twice the injected dose" and is, in fact, closer to 50% (52% or so actually). So if you assume the dog model is correct, or nearly so in other mammals like humans, you'd need about 50% more stanozolol orally than you would if you injected it. So if you used 50mg of injected Winstrol every other day, it would be a safe bet to assume 37.5mg of stanozolol used orally every day would provide a similar effect.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catq.htm
Question:
In your opinion, what is the best way to take Winny? Drinking the injectable aqueous solution or injecting it while varying the injection sites and does drinking the injectable aqueous solution result in the same amount of liver toxicity as the orals? BTW, I read your steroid profiles and I must compliment you on them. Nice work, Big Cat!!
Answer:
Ingesting will always give a lower yield than injecting, even with 17-alpha-alkykation. If you are drinking vials and you do a vial a day, you wouldn't note a whole lot of difference. Injecting is best for people wanting to use lower doses, they can inject once every other day. But people that take every day, would opt for oral in which case a vial (being the same compound as the tabs) is more value for money than the tabs. A single morning dose of 1 vial (50 mg) is the preferred use. Since I'm not one to recommend the pain of daily injections and I find the orals to be poor value for money, ingesting the vials is the best way to go in my opinion. At least if you go high dose.
Ingesting it means it makes two passes through the liver, when injecting only once. Obviously making a first pass makes ingesting more toxic than injecting, eventhough both compound are 17-alpha-alkylated. When ingesting I do not recommend use of Winstrol for longer than 6-8 weeks. If you go beyond six weeks its advised you get liver values tested on a regular basis. When injecting one could stretch use for 8-10 weeks, under the same prerequisite.
I would first recommend you check out:
http://www.google.com
http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/191stras.html
Q: There's this huge debate raging over whether or not you can "drink" your Winny-V. I know that because stanozolol is 17-AA'ed, I can use it orally. However, how much more or less effective is oral stanozolol over injected stanozolol? I hear that you need about twice as much stanozolol orally as you would injected to see similar results. How was this figure of doubling the dose orally determined?
A: There isn't a lot of great pharmacokinetic data in humans comparing oral to parenteral (injectable) stanozolol. So that idea of "if you use X amount by injection you need twice as much orally" is anecdotal and speculative at best. The best I could find is a study comparing the two methods of administration in dogs. My comments come after the abstract:
The effect of stanozolol on 15-nitrogen retention in the dog
Can J Vet Res 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8 (ISSN: 0830-9000)
Olson ME; Morck DW; Quinn KB [Find other articles with these Authors] Animal Health Unit and Gastrointestinal Sciences, University of Calgary, Alberta.
The objective of the study was to determine the influence of either oral or intramuscular administration of stanozolol on nitrogen retention in dogs by using a non-invasive 15N-amino acid tracer technique. Ten healthy, intact, adult male sled dogs received either stanozolol tablets, 2 mg/dog PO, q12h, for 25 days (Group 1, n = 5) or an intramuscular injection of 25 mg of stanozolol on Days 7, 14, 21, and 28 (Group 2, n = 5). A 15N amino acid (5.27 mmol) was infused intravenously into each dog on Day 0 (before stanozolol treatment) and on Day 31 (after stanozolol treatment). Urine was collected by catheterization from each animal 3 times daily for 3 consecutive days. The 15N-urea enrichment in urine was determined by high-resolution mass spectrometry and the total amount of urea in the urine was determined.
Both oral and injectable stanozolol resulted in significant (P < 0.05) increases in amino acid nitrogen retention compared to pretreatment values. Oral stanozolol increased nitrogen retention from 29.2 +/- 8.2% to 50.3 +/- 9.2%, while stanozolol injection increased nitrogen retention from 26.6 +/- 9.9% to 67.0 +/- 7.5%. The response to intramuscular administration was significantly greater than the response to the oral dosing regime. Stanozolol increases amino acid nitrogen retention in dogs, as has been previously observed in rats. This action of stanozolol may be beneficial in dogs under stress of surgical trauma and chronic disease.
Okay, so the oral dose was 28mg/week and the injected dose was 25mg/week. And the injected dose was far better at increasing nitrogen retention (67.0% versus 50.3%). This makes it about 33.2% better (roughly speaking), so if I extrapolate, it means to see the same effects as 25mg of injected stanozolol per week, you'd need to take about 38mg of it orally.
This isn't quite "twice the injected dose" and is, in fact, closer to 50% (52% or so actually). So if you assume the dog model is correct, or nearly so in other mammals like humans, you'd need about 50% more stanozolol orally than you would if you injected it. So if you used 50mg of injected Winstrol every other day, it would be a safe bet to assume 37.5mg of stanozolol used orally every day would provide a similar effect.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catq.htm
Question:
In your opinion, what is the best way to take Winny? Drinking the injectable aqueous solution or injecting it while varying the injection sites and does drinking the injectable aqueous solution result in the same amount of liver toxicity as the orals? BTW, I read your steroid profiles and I must compliment you on them. Nice work, Big Cat!!
Answer:
Ingesting will always give a lower yield than injecting, even with 17-alpha-alkykation. If you are drinking vials and you do a vial a day, you wouldn't note a whole lot of difference. Injecting is best for people wanting to use lower doses, they can inject once every other day. But people that take every day, would opt for oral in which case a vial (being the same compound as the tabs) is more value for money than the tabs. A single morning dose of 1 vial (50 mg) is the preferred use. Since I'm not one to recommend the pain of daily injections and I find the orals to be poor value for money, ingesting the vials is the best way to go in my opinion. At least if you go high dose.
Ingesting it means it makes two passes through the liver, when injecting only once. Obviously making a first pass makes ingesting more toxic than injecting, eventhough both compound are 17-alpha-alkylated. When ingesting I do not recommend use of Winstrol for longer than 6-8 weeks. If you go beyond six weeks its advised you get liver values tested on a regular basis. When injecting one could stretch use for 8-10 weeks, under the same prerequisite.
JP@Ironology
New member
Euriskan,
Thanks for the information. Very good read.
Thanks for the information. Very good read.
white boy
New member
yeah thanks for replying back, I know you're not basing this whole arguement on an article from t-mag you are definately smarter than that ( I hope) and I know how to use google but thanks for the sugestion, kinda busy right now so I'll get back to this when I can
I was only jk about hearing this from a friend
I was only jk about hearing this from a friend
I am not basing it on TMag article but read the study... you asked for something. To be honest it was hard for me to buy it at first, after all I am not a dog but the stuff I was taking had a dog on it. But in my real world experience, all things being equal i.e. training, diet, brand I saw better results injecting vs oral/drinking and I started out with oral winny. I am not saying oral is a waste because I saw results, but if I can get by on taking less and get better results than I will opt for injection. I have read that grapefruit, chewing and holding under tounge, upping the liver protectants will help with oral dosages. In the end will stick with IM if given the choice but you do what you have to do.
MrMcFraggle
New member
I have heard from a couple of people that drank it that you should add some milk thistle daily to help with the liver issues.
you cannot drink it because its water based you can drink it because its a 17 AA drug. Come on folks I know I have been gone awhile and no longer mod here but lets be accurate. Enough Misinformation! And to answer the post yes you can do that. I do not think its necessary but...you canEuriskan said:
Mavafanculo
New member
Quadsweep said:
^^ what he said
also re Milk Thistle, while it was the standard for a long time, recent meta-studies (study of studies) concluded that no benefit could be proven based on liver panel and other measures, and the risk of side effects could not be excluded. not a good risk/reward.
But, there's good science behind the use of rALA and NAC (n-aceylcystiene) for liver protection and regeneration.
