Today's 5 x 5 workout and some fun facts

Thanks! I really appreciate the input and help guiding us through the program.

190 was actually my goal when I started (I based it roughly on what super rice gained from his run through) so yes I am very pleased that I've been a steady 190-192 for the past week or so, and on a diet I think I can reasonably stick with - hope the calories needed because of the additonal lbs isn't too much

Last workout of this cycle is Friday - I have to make up for that crappy 3 x 3 squat workout last week, hope to get that heavy triple (may go for a single, too)

Jim Ouini said:

190 was actually my goal when I started (I based it roughly on what super rice gained from his run through) s

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LOL - Super_Rice was the perfect guage. You both got sick as dogs in the 3x3 phase. Be careful what you wish for...

405 dead from a 365 dead?

It's good you're ambitious, but is it really thinkable to add 40 lbs. to your deadlift in nine weeks?

MC?

depends on his prior level of conditioning. i could see 40 pounds on mine in nine weeks. i could see 80 pounds on mine in two cycles since im fairly new at getting somewhere with my training.

13 pounds in nine weeks is solid man!

Tom Treutlein said:

405 dead from a 365 dead?

It's good you're ambitious, but is it really thinkable to add 40 lbs. to your deadlift in nine weeks?

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Well I'd be happy with a single That being said, I got 2 sets of 3 at 365 and the bar kept moving so I'm thinking I might've been able to go a bit heavier.

I think ditchnig the touch and go back in Wk 6 or thereabouts really helped my strength.

JohnRobHolmes said:

13 pounds in nine weeks is solid man!

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Thanks! You can't really tell except for the double chin

Week 9 Day 3 (Final Workout!)

BW after workout = 191.5. So final weight gain after 9 wks was 13.5lbs.

I got excited for a sec and thought I was 197 but my buddy was stepping on the scale

Squat (1 x 3)

Warmup to 365. Missed this lift, according to my spotter I only got to parallel on my last rep. Wk 9 3/1 x 3 squat sessions have been quite disappointing due to lack of depth.

I think I have some technique issues as I'm still making adjustments to my stance. I think it's time to bring the camcorder in to the gym look at my form. And oh yeah this weight was probably just too heavy

Bench (3 x 3)

Warmup to 250 x 3 x 3. OK set, bar kept moving each rep.

BB row (3 x 3)

Warmup to 250. Mis-read my journal should've been 260. Anyway, it felt good with just a touch of body english.

Actually, I was so disappointed again with my squats it kind of affected my mental approach to my other lifts

Next week I'm going to start 5 x 5 all over again. I think I may switch to box squats or just ATF squats starting lighter. Or do box on the Wed squat.

I may switch from sumo to conventional deads, or alternate within a workout.

Standing OHP I'll sub with push press, right from the beginning.

I may try power cleans instead of BB row but I'm a bit worried about my wrists. Plus I have to learn the proper form so I'm still debating.

Overall I obviously really like this program - I've made more progress in both strength and size in the past 9 wks than I did spinning my wheels in my old workouts (crappy final squat workouts not withstanding). Additonaly, the workouts are fun, the lifts are a challenge for me both in technique and in working at these higher intensities.

At some point I'll run through a DFHT program for 4-5 wks, but right now I want to build off my current base.

Madcow, thanks again for all the info and input on dual factor!

Well done on seeing it through to completion. Don't worry about those squats. Supposedly, it's the straining against the weight that makes you stronger at that stage not necessarily making every lift.

I've been doing power cleans for three weeks. They're hittting the tops of my forearms and the lower part of my biceps (maybe the brachialis) but my wrists have been fine. Also I'm doing box squats on Wednesday ultra wide. I'm enjoying the two switches. Monday and Friday I'm doing full ATF. There's no longer any guessing about whether you're going deep enough.

I noticed that you spread out weeks 8 and 9. How did you find it? Too easy? Still hard? Do you feel like you're loaded again and in need of a deload? I'm still unsure whether to run a 2x per week deload when I get there or do the 3x and do what you've done with weeks 8 and 9.

Congrats on the weight gain.

Jim, great results especially considering the stomach flu and the diet miscalc. I was going to add your results to my thread if you don't mind. Do you have any ideas on your strength progression like a before/after that I might include?

Blut Wump said:

I've been doing power cleans for three weeks. They're hittting the tops of my forearms and the lower part of my biceps (maybe the brachialis) but my wrists have been fine.

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Sounds good then. I'm going to start probably at 95-115? since I've never done them before.

Blut Wump said:

Also I'm doing box squats on Wednesday ultra wide. I'm enjoying the two switches. Monday and Friday I'm doing full ATF. There's no longer any guessing about whether you're going deep enough.

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I think I'll do exactly that except I'm not sure how wide I can go, I tried it once and it seemed to strain my hip a lot. I guess I need to work on flexibility here. And I really need to focus on sitting back. Also box squat is basically just 10-20% lighter than Monday's? or even lighter because of the box?

Blut Wump said:

I noticed that you spread out weeks 8 and 9. How did you find it? Too easy? Still hard? Do you feel like you're loaded again and in need of a deload? I'm still unsure whether to run a 2x per week deload when I get there or do the 3x and do what you've done with weeks 8 and 9.

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Well for wk 6 I did 3x deload and then I got sick which kind of forced me to do 2x per week over the last 3 weeks.

Unfortunately I can't say that I know the physical feeling of being loaded and deloaded, I do know that I missed some lifts in Wks 8-9, even at only 2x week.

Still, I don't plan on taking a week off or anything, just going to start 2nd run through this Monday, so I guess I don't feel like I got loaded again.

Blut Wump said:

Congrats on the weight gain.

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Thanks! I actually went through your journal a few times in preparation for this 1st run through as well as while I was going through it.

Madcow2 said:

Do you have any ideas on your strength progression like a before/after that I might include?

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I'm going to have to use some tables/guesstimate since I never formally established my 3/5RM's before starting, and I changed my squat and dead form from the way I used to lift (short of parallel and conventional, respectively)

Bench:
before 1RM = 260 (est from 225 reps)
after 1RM = 275 and did 260 for 3 reps.

Squat:
before 1RM = est 315 below parallel but not ATF. I used to rep all the time with 315 but these were quite frankly short of parallel
after 1RM = 365 (even though I missed this 3RM yesterday)

Deadlift:
before 3RM = 315 conventional touch and go. And I even used to start it off a rack so even on the 1st rep I'd have that stretch reflex
after 3RM = 365 sumo 'dead' (for 2 sets)

So overall I know I got stronger on my bench, and I'm most happy with my dead - I love pulling off the floor now.

I think you and Curgeo were discussing the pulling edition of PurePowermag. On page 60 there's an article which covers the power clean. You'll probably find 95-115 lbs. a good starting weight: light enough not to be a problem and heavy enough that you're not just throwing it up. You'll probably increase it fairly quickly. I liked making this sub for the rows: I could feel it mostly in my upper back but I'm sure it helped also with the deadlifting chain. I think they're also great for my GPP as they make me gasp and sweat like a pig.

Box-squats were something I'd been keen on trying for a while and was finally pushed into them after a discussion in this thread from Anthrax about knees with b_fold
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=396662&page=2&pp=20
I just looked back at the thread and you were part of the discussion but there's the link, anyway.

I've been in the same boat as you with squats and now that I'm going down fully ATF my squatting weights are way down and so I'm box-squatting more than my Friday or Monday squats but less than I could do for a breaking-parallel squat. Play it by ear. One thing I like about the cleans, ATF squats and box squats is that there's no longer any question about body English in the row or whether I'm going low enough in a squat. The clean is all body assist and the squats I just go down until I stop then come back up. It's just black and white, make or fail. I'm wondering whether the reduced weight on those two exercises is leaving me more in the tank for my deads but they're feeling better than ever this time around.

I still have two more weeks to decide about my next deload. I'm thinking of doing a 2x week 5 and then going back to 3x for 6 and 7 and then just see how I feel by week 8 but probably just stretch out the 3x protocol for 8 and 9. Not sure yet.