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wtf is the deal w/ all the nuclear war posts??

decem said:
buddy.. i just did some leafing through of info..

one thing to point out.. is that the main cause of all the hoopla is this classified document.. the same classified document which was obviously not meant to be a press release..

had this all been kept hush hush.. then i would fully agree with bush's decision to have nuclear weapons locked and loaded (except of course for use on china if they were to have an encounter with taiwan - which i would fully disagree with.. as we simply have no fucking business in the matter)..

but like i said.. it's not bush's policy on the weapons that bothers me.. it's the fact that these fuckers can't keep shit classified for shit.. how the hell did someone get ahold of such a document.. and why was it not top secret.. as opposed to simply classified..

so.. in essence.. this was not a case of nuclear sabre rattling.. but a poor internal control of a military contingency plan which was obviously not meant for the public's eye...

I hear ya. But it really depends on what prompted this "leak".

Its probable the leak was prompted by military and intelligence officials with democratic leanings who felt exposure of Bushs aggressive nuclear "first strike" policy against rouge states could undermine public support for the Bush administration.

OR

the leak was facilitated by the Bush administration to "send a message" to rouge states, especially China, if they were contemplating violating US foreign politcal objectives.

Either way, the truth is out that Bush would use nucs against China proceeding a Chinese invasion of Taiwan - which is the important point, to me anyway. Regardless of whether the document was leaked by military personal with democratic or republican leanings, it represents a major shift towards a more provocatory US global warfare strategy, which is worse then nuclear sabre rattling.
 
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buddy28 said:


I hear ya. But it really depends on what prompted this "leak".

Its probable the leak was prompted by military and intelligence officials with democratic leanings who felt exposure of Bushs aggressive nuclear "first strike" policy against rouge states could undermine public support for the Bush administration.

OR

the leak was facilitated by the Bush administration to "send a message" to rouge states, especially China, if they were contemplating violating US foreign politcal objectives.

Either way, the truth is out that Bush would use nucs against China proceeding a Chinese invasion of Taiwan - which is the important point, to me anyway. Regardless of whether the document was leaked by military personal with democratic or republican leanings, it represents a major shift towards a more provocatory US global warfare strategy, which is worse then nuclear sabre rattling.


i definitely have to lean toward the former rather than the latter..

i can't believe that bush would even HAVE to do such a thing.. ya know.. china fully knows what we're capable of.. and i'm sure had a good idea of what we'd be inclined to do in certain situations.. so i'm sure that bush would not have to "leak" this type of info.. ya know?

but how do you know that this is a "more provocatory US global warfare stategy?" we could only assume what stances other administrations might have taken on use of nuclear weaponry in like situations.. even had they expressed what their "probable" stance would be.. when all is said and done.. there's no telling what tactics/stance would have been utilized then.. or now..
 
thats a negative Train Harder.

The satillete guided Chinese DF-5 ICBM has an approximate range of 13,500km - capable of reaching any contential US target within accuracy interval of 1000 meters.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/icbm/df-5.htm

An estimated 20-30 DF-5's are known to exist, each with a projected payload of 2-5 MT.

Incidently, the DF-5 was designed for the very purpose of striking continental US targets. neat, huh?

BOOM!
 
Explosions are cool.

Little kids love to play with fire crackers. Older dudes like to play with nukes.

The principle remains the same. The only thing that changes is the size of the explosion.
 
decem said:

but how do you know that this is a "more provocatory US global warfare stategy?" we could only assume what stances other administrations might have taken on use of nuclear weaponry in like situations.. even had they expressed what their "probable" stance would be.. when all is said and done.. there's no telling what tactics/stance would have been utilized then.. or now..

Decem,

A bunch of articles inferred the doctineral shift in US deployment of nuclear weapons.

ill give u a few quotes from the LA times article:

1) "The Bush administration, in a secret policy review completed early this year, *has ordered the Pentagon to draft contingency plans* for the use of nuclear weapons against at least seven countries, naming not only Russia and the "axis of evil"--Iraq, Iran, and North Korea--but also China, Libya and Syria."

2) "In addition, the U.S. Defense Department has *been told to prepare* for the possibility that nuclear weapons may be required in some future Arab-Israeli crisis."

3) "Nevertheless, the Bush administration plan reverses an almost two-decade-long trend of relegating nuclear weapons to the category of weapons of last resort. It also redefines nuclear requirements in hurried post-Sept. 11 terms."

4) "China, because of its nuclear forces and "developing strategic objectives," is listed as "a country that could be involved in an immediate or potential contingency." Specifically, the NPR lists a military confrontation over the status of Taiwan as one of the scenarios that could lead Washington to use nuclear weapons."

5) "The second important insight the NPR offers into Pentagon thinking about nuclear policy is the extent to which the Bush administration's strategic planners were shaken by last September's terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Though Congress directed the new administration "to conduct a comprehensive review of U.S. nuclear forces" before the events of Sept. 11, the final study is striking for its single-minded reaction to those tragedies.

a) Heretofore, nuclear strategy tended to exist as something apart from the ordinary challenges of foreign policy and military affairs. Nuclear weapons were not just the option of last resort, they were the option reserved for times when national survival hung in the balance--a doomsday confrontation with the Soviet Union, for instance.

Now, nuclear strategy seems to be viewed through the prism of Sept. 11. For one thing, the Bush administration's faith in old-fashioned deterrence is gone."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-arkinmar10.story

The preceding quotes prove:

1) a major shift in US nuclear deployment docterine has occured - historically from a role of deterance, now to one of offensive strike capability.

2) quote #5a) and #4, within the context of all other quotes *prove* historical US nuclear deployment docterine ecompassed only doomsday scenerios. A Chinese invasion of Taiwan is a regional conflict, hardly threatening US politically stablity. Therefore, a Chinese invasion of Taiwan would historically be classified as a nondoomsday scenerio. The current NPC's (Nuclear Posture Review) inclusion of China as a recommended target of a US nuclear first-strike, in the event of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, proves a significant shift in US nuclear docteronal strategy has occured with regards to US - Sino relations.


If u want to go more indepth its possible. What ud have to do is reveiw all declassified or leaked historical NPC documents and determine US - Sino nuclear deployment strategy. All current evidence strongly suggests it was nonexistent prior to the Bush administration.
 
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decem said:
why are you guys so fixated on this now??

Humanity is on the verge of nuclear war. Pointless at that.


The terrorists who commited 9/11 either died doing it or are still somewhere in california spending some cash on vacations...

This is revenge on some dudes who just dont happen to speak english.




I cant see this madness happen. Osam is alive, omar embarassed us army by escaping on a motorcycle.


Real purpotraitors are alive... Only the mostly innocent people have died.


And now Dubiya wants to use nukes.

WHY?


How about bush nukes all of us and we end this bull while its Not TOO late?
 
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