wside

[erickthegreat11]

Could you guys help in explaining Westside training to me? I try to follow the links to the site, but it's confusing for me. For one thing, progressively going up in weight to triples or singles, how long to you go between sets? 30 seconds? 5 minutes? I usually go 2-3min. and also stretch between sets. My warmup consists of one set of 50% of my work out weight. (50#for 10 reps, rest 2 min. stretch 2X, then 100# for whatever)
Here's the weight I'm currently working with in the 10 reps for 4 sets range:
Bench-150
dip-body weight
overhead press-65
triceps pushdown-45
seated row-200
barbell curl-75

 

[goldenone]

LINKS

For benching read this article first http://www.t-mag.com/html/body_115b600.html

This is a good article that talks about how to bench the right way..form,elbow placement etc.... I had to learn how to bench all over after again when I first read this article.

For max-effort day that you was talking about,read this http://www.musclemonthly.com/articles/001215/001215-tate-westside-powerlifting.htm

I rest between 90 to 120 seconds on max-effort day.It varys from person to person.I would like to hear some input on others rest time on max-effort day also.

This article ties everything in http://www.testosterone.net/html/133per.html

I hope this helps.

 

[brianmincher]

goldenone,

I also try and rest in the range which you described. I find myself because of the short rests on dynamic day wanting to make another attempt in a very short amount of time, and I have to pay attention to keep from doing this.

BTW to Ericthegreat, don't stretch between sets. And don't stretch before lifting. Stretch on the off days. If you stretch before or during lifting, you will destroy the stretch reflex in your muscles, and you will not be able to lift as much weight.

B

 

[erickthegreat11]

What? Don't stretch? Woa, this is news to me. I appreciate your advise and respect your opinion, but do you have the stats to back that up? I mean, I'm probably nothing to compare, but I'd just like to know. I've been lifting for so many years it's pathetic. I'd just like to know whether you're sucessful in strength training and not some kid who just repeats what he sees in magazines.

 

[rgosit]

the web site describes it well.. at testasterone.com

 

[Prometheus]

Erick - it's good to be skeptical, but I'd do a username search (upper right of screen) first...

fwiw, I don't "stretch" aerobics-class style, but I do 2-4 warmup sets and work the joints around for a few minutes to get the blood flowing a bit. I rest approx 3 minutes between sets, but I'm not religious about it - if I need more I take it (especially on ME day).

 

[erickthegreat11]

I've got a lot of inertia about drastically changing my work out. I read the links you gave me golden one, and I'm off to try it out. I've been wanting to try this method out for a while, but it seems so confusing at first, especially when you're coming from doing just bodybuilding routines.

 

[goldenone]

stretching

With the westside training there isnt much time to stretch between sets.

I warm up first with rotator -cuff exercises with a therapetic(sp?)band first.

Then I use the bar,then-25s-135-185-225-265
I start with 8-10 reps for the bar-25s and lower the reps as I go higher in weight.Everybody is diffrent,but I have found that this works for me.

I have dislocated my left shoulder twice, so I do lots of rotator work.

As another precaution I am also using elbow sleeves also.

 

[goldenone]

erickthegreat11

Good luck! There is a wealth of information to be found here on the power lifting board.

 

[goldenone]

brianmincher

I right there with you!I do the same thing all the time.

 

[erickthegreat11]

ME Bench:
(all sets 2 min rest)
barX3
30X3
50X3
70X3
90X3
110X3
120X3
135X1
155 could not lift
140X1
145X1
150 could not lift
triceps pushdown: 50#6X5 (6 reps 5 sets) (felt 10# too light)
butterfly: 50# 6X5 (felt about 10# too light)
overhead press: 20# 6X5
Dynamic bench day will be done Monday (72 hours rest)

The only question I have at this point is whether to add narrow grip bench press as a supplement exercise right after ME bench.

*Weights indicated are what I put on the bar and don't include the bar, which is 45#. I say this to not confuse weights with those indicated earlier in this thread.

 

[Adam MacKinnon]

Unless you have some severe joint problems that looks like way too much warm up sets. You could shorted it to:
bar 10
95 3
120 1
145 1

 

[bigokie]

Definitely too many sets for ME day

I'd drop down a few. Maybe try to get it done in 5 or so sets. I don't ever go above 5 on ME exercise, it just seems to tire me out, except for when I do DB presses for reps. As for rest periods, on DB rep try 3-5 minutes on the others try 1-3. Seems to work good. As for shoulder dislocation, I've done similar damage, mine was just seperated. Try face pulls on a pulley with the rope. Good luck

 

[brianmincher]

Eric the great,

I am not a kid. I am 27 years old. I am 5 feet 7 inches tall and weigh between 220 and 230 lbs depending on if I am interested in lifting in the 220's or 242's. I have 18 inch arms. My bench is in the neighborhood of 480 to 500. My squat is in the neighborhood of 600 plus, deadlift in the mid 4's.

In regards to the stretching issue, I am also a former 3 time Oklahoma State full contact Karate champion. I can do the splits. But I do not stretch before I lift, and I do not stretch between lifts.

If you don't want to take my advice, don't take it. If you doubt my stats or my knowledge, that is fine too. There is a reason for not stretching before you lift. A loose muscle may be great for some activities, but to lift more weight, you want more stress in the muscle, not less.

If you don't believe me, post a question regarding stretching directly to Flapwrlifter. I can just about guarantee that there is nobody around this board with more knowledge about strength.

B

 

[erickthegreat11]

Thanks I appreciate your help. Especially since you're so much stronger than me. It's just that literally every site, book, or other source has said to stretch during the work out. BTW I did take your advise and did no stretching in my work out for the first time in several years. As to other responses to too many sets, I was following a modle given on one of the links. I thought it was a bit over kill, not to mention a lot of extra time spent on the work out. One says maximum 5, one says 3, so I'll try 4 sets to warm up next time.

 

[rgosit]

brian mincher... do u do the west side routine??

how did u train wile doing karate?? and leading up into competition??

in the future i plan on doing the westside ruotine wile staying lean..and hopfuly participating in a striking art or wrestling. how could i incorporate the 2?? or what i just do them on tuesday thursday, saturday? or would it b better to throw them on speed day...
would it take away from my gains?? im not sure if i will b able to do tis when i go to college because i dont kno what arts will b availiable to me..so i mite just end up doing westside.. thanx

 

[brianmincher]

Rgosit,

I am retired from Karate competition, and yes I do the Westside routine. I think you should be able to do both without any problem, provided you have the time to devote to both. When I was in college, I could lift intensely, and train for fighting as well. Now I have a job, a mortgage, 3 kids and a wife. Something had to give, and it was the fighting circuit. Stick with the 4 day per week westside system.

If you are interested in taking up a fighting art, take it from someone who has been there, take up a grappling art. I was a bouncer in two honky tonk bars, and two raves, and let me tell you, no matter how good of a striker you are, you had better be able to fight off your feet. The reason I say this is because if a striker and a grappler get into a fight, those two are going to grapple 10 times out of 10. If you want to box, and I want to wrestle, we are wrestling. I don't care if you are Mike Tyson, we are still wrestling.

Ericthegreat11,

I know that everywhere you look tells you to stretch, do multiple mid to high rep sets, etc. . . Consider the source. The stuff you are reading is coming from outdated methodologies. Progressive overload is the term for what you are describing. Meaning you basically do the same thing every week, progressively increasing the weight on the same exercises in an effort to get bigger and stronger. I tried that shit for years, and all it got me was a little bit of a size increase, very little strength increase and some really sore joints.

These people are telling you the gospel according to them. I would take the word of these people except for this . . . How many champions have they produced? How many Elite powerlifters? On the other hand, there is a dirty little 20 foot by 20 foot dungeon in Columbus, Ohio that has produced 4 seven hundred pound bench pressers, dozens of 600 lb benchers, a couple of 1000 lb squatters, scores of 900 and 800 lb squatters, in a room not much bigger than my living room. I like the odds of success better with Westside. And I personally have tried a bunch of different stuff, and this just works, period. If I knew at age 18 what I know now, I have absolutely no doubt, I would be benching over 600, squatting over 800 and totalling Elite right now. I have only been training Westside for 7 months, and I kick myself every day for not having started it sooner.

B

 

[Arioch]

The other reason not to stretch before a workout and in-between sets is that it promotes joint laxity, which can increaset the chance of injury. You can stretch very lightly as part of your warm-up, but under no circumstances try to push the envelope. I too stretch, and very heavily, but only afterwards and on the off days as well.

 

[erickthegreat11]

I am totally not going back to the training forum. No one, I mean no one, even suggested not stretching.

 

[rgosit]

Brianmincher- I actually just started bjj.. but when i go to school i dont think it will be avialable to me.. so should i just try to keep up with wresling? and just work striking on my own?

 

[brianmincher]

Rgosit,

Brazilian JiuJuitsu is great, but it won't hurt you any to just concentrate on high school wrestling for now. It will give you a great base. Most wrestlers would turn the average Karate man into a pretzel.

Striking can be picked up pretty quickly, but honestly it is overrated. I have rarely been in a real fight that did not end up in some sort of a grappling situation.

B

 

[erickthegreat11]

1st Dynamic effort Bench today. Any suggestions? Input?
barX10
15X10
30X3
45X3
55#3 reps X 8 sets
tri pd 60#6X5
bfly60#6X5
oh press25#6X5

 

[bigokie]

Dyn day

I think you're doing too many warmups still. When I go in for Dyn day I do the bar 2-3x3 then jump straight into my work weight.
The flyes really aren't needed for bench. Most of your benching comes from tris, shoulders and lats. Chest is the least used. As for overhead press I think you would be better off now by doing plate raises and face pulls. If you want to do overhead, try overhead lockouts for 3x3. You also might want to add in some kind of row, cable, barbell, dumbbell. And last always be sure to get out in less than an hour. Good luck

 

[erickthegreat11]

Just from my ME bench day I am much stronger. I didn't used to be able to do any 1 arm push ups even at 45 degrees. Now I can pop off 5 easily! I know I'm still pretty weak, but I'll be able to do them off the floor in a matter of weeks. This has been a strength goal of mine for a long time. Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it
I planned on moving my 2 lat exercises to dead lift day (seated row and behind neck pull down). I think I'll move them to bench days now. Have you had more strength gains incorporating dips into the mix?