Would YOU like to gain 12 pounds in six weeks...

[The Shadow]

Toshi - you can substite incline press for the dipd

Lumbus - my friend. THat's cool - just keep doing what you have been doing and you will get what you've always got. As fae a s lat work - the deadlifts twicw oper week and rows are plenty. Perhaps this routine is not right for you at all.

Arb - great results. Take a couple more warm-ups on the arm exercises and perhaps walk for about 5 minutes to warm the kness a little more.

Scylla - bent over rows.

 

[Needhelp]

Would this be good for a beginner who is going for size?

 

[frorider6]

So many things I want to respond too.

Zebo - Great to hear an update on your progress.

Toshe - I substituted incline dumbbell press for dips on friday a while back and went with that. My overall bench and incline bench weight went up considerably. I'm a big fan of the incline dumbbell press. And congrats on lifting at your age. I'd love to hear about how long you've lifting, your current stats, and future goals. Just stay clean. Your body should be producing enough natural hormones right now that you don't need anything extra.

Lumbuss - I can't comment on the program you're talking about as I've never seen it/done it. However I can say that for me, this program has put considerable size and strength on me. As for more back work, until you've done the amount of deadlifts this program calls for, I'd reserve judgement on the amount of back work you perceive here. Personally, I substituted overhand chins for the shrugs on friday. Just recently, I've added a couple of sets in after the pullups just to work my back just a little extra.

arb - I noticed this routine jumpstart my appetite too when I first started this program. I do know what you're talking about with the knees. Mine start to hurt a bit into this program too. The key is to have a gradual warmup. This program calls for heavy squatting. Not matter what program you're on, this will make some people's knees ache (like mine). But they seem to heal up just fine after I go off the program.

Vortexx - I normally only run this 4-8 weeks depending on how my body feels. This is definetly not a year round program and I would recommend switching off to a more "normal" routine after 6-8 weeks with an 8-10 rep range.

Needhelp - In my opinion, this is the best routine for a beginner. When I first started lifting, I focused on very isolated movements, mainly because I didn't know any better. And I continued the same way for many years without any huge success. You need to learn the compound movements early and CORRECTLY. They are the core of a workout and have totally changed my physique.

TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN THE PROPER FORM OF THESE EXERCISES

 

[Madd Hatter]

I've been thinking about abandoning the WBB 1 routine and trying this (with the calf work). I'm 23, 6'2" 190ish, natural, hardgainer with a self-believed intensity problem. Been on a modified WBB for a month and a half. Like it. Since I started lifting seriously about 6 months ago (with the WBB 1 being my first real routine) I've made slight improvements but nothing drastic, and I'm sick of it. I've gained 18 lbs total, 8 lbs a while back, 10lbs all at once at the beginning of the WBB routine (not because of it I'm sure), some of it may even be muscle. I'm starting another creatine cycle in a few days. Questions:

1) I despise SL DL's (probably doesn't help that I have a bad back, regular DL's are enough for me, thanks). Could I do Leg Presses instead or should I try to suffer through SLDL's, even if it's with just the bar? Ok, not quite, but close.

2) Deadlifts. 20 reps. Ouch. Does "max" mean my low-rep max done 20x with as much break as I need (since a lot of people treat each rep as a set)? Or a weight I can go thru 20x in a row? Does that make sense?

3) Is 7 weeks too soon to switch routines? I know, I know, stick with one until you stop progessing, then you know it's time to change. How long should one stay on the old school routine? Right now I'm thinking I may just cycle through WBB 1, this one if I like it, and WBB 2 (which I haven't tried yet), and am not sure how much time to spend on each one).

 

[b fold the truth]

I've been thinking about abandoning the WBB 1 routine and trying this (with the calf work). I'm 23, 6'2" 190ish, natural, hardgainer with a self-believed intensity problem. Been on a modified WBB for a month and a half. Like it. Since I started lifting seriously about 6 months ago (with the WBB 1 being my first real routine) I've made slight improvements but nothing drastic, and I'm sick of it. I've gained 18 lbs total, 8 lbs a while back, 10lbs all at once at the beginning of the WBB routine (not because of it I'm sure), some of it may even be muscle. I'm starting another creatine cycle in a few days. Questions:

1) I despise SL DL's (probably doesn't help that I have a bad back, regular DL's are enough for me, thanks). Could I do Leg Presses instead or should I try to suffer through SLDL's, even if it's with just the bar? Ok, not quite, but close.

2) Deadlifts. 20 reps. Ouch. Does "max" mean my low-rep max done 20x with as much break as I need (since a lot of people treat each rep as a set)? Or a weight I can go thru 20x in a row? Does that make sense?

3) Is 7 weeks too soon to switch routines? I know, I know, stick with one until you stop progessing, then you know it's time to change. How long should one stay on the old school routine? Right now I'm thinking I may just cycle through WBB 1, this one if I like it, and WBB 2 (which I haven't tried yet), and am not sure how much time to spend on each one).

What is WBB? I assume that you are not talking about Westside Barbell?

Doing stiffleggs are probably a must and you shouldn't feel them in your back at all...only your hams and maybe traps and hips. Do them properly, no reason to go too deep. Bad back? Find the problem and fix it..make your entire core stronger..don't avoid it.

I still disagree with the 20 rep deadlift routine. I did 405 for 18 the other day and didn't get sore. I can go and do a few heavy sets and actually feel it. The set of 20 will probably ONLY be a cardio session. Ask Night Fly about doing her 20 rep sets on deadlifts for 2 weeks in a row. It isn't positive. I STILL suggest not doing anything more than singles on deads...your form is always worse on the 2nd rep!!!

Don't be afraid to change your routine and change it often. Pick a base routine and stick with it (if it works) but you must change often. I rarely ever do the same thing every week. I almost always change weight, reps, tempo, time, etc...or exercises totally. The body adapts to an exercise after 3 weeks (ala Louie Simmons).

Keep asking questions and learning.

B True

 

[The Shadow]

I did 405 for 18 the other day and didn't get sore. I can go and do a few heavy sets and actually feel it. The set of 20 will probably ONLY be a cardio session.

tsk, tsk, tsk - B Fold - since when is being sore an indication of growth???

 

[b fold the truth]

I think being sore is a good indicator as to how hard you have trained and how you have stimulated your body. As I have transformed myself I have learned to listen to my body very carefully.

When you finish a set and you feel wind taxed and not muscle fatigued...you might as well be doing sprints. I still don't know anyone who has build a massive back or great strength on the deadlift from doing 20 rep sets of deadlifts.

When you are not using AAS, like myself and my training partners...being sore is common. It shows muscle stimulation and indirectly shows where growth will more than likely occur. When I stop getting sore from something it is time to switch exercises.

I ask the question...when is getting sore NOT an indicator of growth?

B True

 

[The Shadow]

I ask the question...when is getting sore NOT an indicator of growth?

B True

I can hit you with a baseball bat and you'll be sore, but not grow from it.

I know I do not have the biggest legs ever seen, but I built 95% of the size with high reps.

Don't you think that if you move your 20rm set form 225 to 325 that your 1rm will NOT go up as a result??

btw - fot hose who don't know I totally respect this man. THis is why I have made it my mission to shop him the error of his ways.

 

[bm2k]

I tend to agree with b fold. I like being sore after a workout. If I'm not sore, it can feel like I've wasted my time and haven't made the muscles work hard enough to rest, repair and grow.

Soreness is a very individual thing and may mean different things to different people. To my body, being sore means that its been stimulated to the point where it can repair itself and grow bigger and stronger.

I've read quite a bit of stuff suggesting that soreness isn't a pointer to whether you've worked sufficiently hard, and that it varies depending on recovery ability, substances being taken, diet, etc... However, for me, I use it as a valuable tool for monitoring my body and progress.

 

[bm2k]

I can hit you with a baseball bat and you'll be sore, but not grow from it.

Bad example, and you know it!