Winny, Equipoise and Achieving Goal

[oceandweller4]

First of all want to say that I have been viewing for a while but finally joined in. I have alot of questions so here is my first one. Thanks to all for sharing your experiences.

First I am 34 YO, 6"1, 220, about 18% BF (Way high). I have only once about 6 years ago did about 8 weeks of Winny and about 4 weeks in the middle of Deca. I dont remember the exact dosages and do remember getting some decent muscle gains and leaner look. I stopped taking both because I dont seem to have a problem putting on weight (LBM and Fat), and I did not want to get heavier than 225 or so. At the time that I did it I am not sure I had a good target of what I wanted to do so my diet, gear, and training were probably not all focuses on a particular goal since I had none. Now I do and I need your help.

Goal. First of all let me say that I dont care if I am 230 and Ripped to Shreds, I dont want to weight 230, i want to weigh in the 205-210 Range because of a twice operated knee which does not like the extra weight and the fact that I am very active in sports such as basketball and baseball and I cannot afford to be so heavy even if I am ripped. i need to stay more athletic and agile and lean, not so much big. I am already a pretty big guy, I have good muscle mass, and in all honesty besides perhaps traps and some forearms I would be content with my current amount of LBM.

I have been dieting for the last 4 weeks pretty good and getting my serious Cardio and weight training (I can elaborate if need). I have lost 8 pounds and I feel it is mostly from fat, in that time which I am happy about, but I want to take this to another level. I was thinking of trying to cut down another 10Lb's to about 210 before doing any Gear but I am not sure that would be the smartest thing or if I should start the gear now to preserve my muscle.

I have winny and Equipoise, which based on my research and some minor experience with it, i feel would be the best choice for me. REMEMBER I do not want to GAIN any weight, so with this in mind, Here is what I plan to do, feel free to critique and suggest, of course with experience to back it.

GEAR PLAN 1:
4 Weeks Winny 50MG EOD IM
6 Weeks Winny 50MG EOD IM and 200,300,300,400,300,200 Equipoise
2 Weeks Winny 50MG EOD IM
-ECA Stack 3 weeks on 2 weeks off, first week Once a Day before workout, week 2 and 3 BID monday through Friday.
-Trying Guggulsterone per a reccomendation during last week of ECA and during 2 week off period.
-Considering Glucosamine because of warning of Joint paint with Winny and I already have a so so knee.

OR
PLAN 2:
12 Weeks Winny 50MG EOD IM
NO EQUIPOISE since I am trying to loose weight
and same with the ECA and other

DIET:
Calorie deficient diet by approx 500 Calories a Day, concentration on protein and moderate good carbs, with some weekend days above my daily maintenance calorie requirement (little cheating). Trying to drink lots of water as well.

TRAINING:
-Each body part done once a week, 9-12 Sets of each depending on muscle, with moderately heavy lifting of 8-12 reps, with change in about the 4th week to a lighter more fast paced workout
-Minimal Daily Cardio of 45 Mins 5-6 times a week, if work permit I would like to split my cardio into 40 in the AM on empty or protein shake stomach, and maybe ony 30 in the evening post lifting.
-ABS 3x a week (I got some good routines)


HOW MUCH CARDIO CAN I DO on the gear before being counterproductive ?

I think I covered it all. I know this is alot but I feel that all these factors play an important role. Can I lose weight even while doing the gear, is the calories still going to determine this ?

Thanks, eager to hear responses.

 

[1392477]

Your caloric intake will determine if you gain or lose weight. Once you find you Basal Metabolic Rate you +/- calories based on your activity level and gear usage. Most using EQ find they are HUNGRY all the time and tend to eat more and gain a few pounds. This will tend to be lean mass and not fat aspecially if using EQ + Winnie.

Keep your protein intake high to prevent muscle wasting. 45 minutes of daily cardio is on the high side bor a bulking cycle but would probably help your goal of losing BF% and keeping some muscle.

You may want to consider an anti-catabolic as well like Clen to add to your cycle.

 

[oceandweller4]

Your caloric intake will determine if you gain or lose weight. Once you find you Basal Metabolic Rate you +/- calories based on your activity level and gear usage. Most using EQ find they are HUNGRY all the time and tend to eat more and gain a few pounds. This will tend to be lean mass and not fat aspecially if using EQ + Winnie.

Keep your protein intake high to prevent muscle wasting. 45 minutes of daily cardio is on the high side bor a bulking cycle but would probably help your goal of losing BF% and keeping some muscle.

You may want to consider an anti-catabolic as well like Clen to add to your cycle.

I know about the hunger but I will do my best to control appetite and continue in a caloric defecit. Protein I will keep high of course.

As far as Clen for Anticatabolism, most of the studies and reports on this have mixed reports as to its true anticatobolic properties. I may get Clen later, right now I am going with the ECA stack, which by the way what do you guys think about getting rid of the Aspirin ???

MORE MORE MORE

 

[Makavelli]

Your cycle needs to be changed. First using EQ for only 6 weeks will do very little. Second you need to take Winstrol ed, not eod, even if it is IM. I would run the EQ for 12 weeks along with test. I would then add the winstrol the last 6-8 weeks at 50 mgs/day. Test is very important for libido and mood. I know you don't want to gain more, but test is the best AAS and anti-catabolic there is.

 

[oceandweller4]

Point taken about the Test, maybe I will extend the Eq to 8 weeks, I understand the winny at ED instead of EOD but I think I can do well with EOD, remember I want to keep my weight down, and basically cut arouond what I already have, not add. I still think I would add muscle with my Cycle. TEST I understand the befefits but I cant imagine the weight gain on that, I dont think that that is an option.

 

[scout69]

Your cycle needs to be changed. First using EQ for only 6 weeks will do very little. Second you need to take Winstrol ed, not eod, even if it is IM. I would run the EQ for 12 weeks along with test. I would then add the winstrol the last 6-8 weeks at 50 mgs/day. Test is very important for libido and mood. I know you don't want to gain more, but test is the best AAS and anti-catabolic there is.

I believe this post right here is pretty straight on the money

 

[oceandweller4]

I believe this post right here is pretty straight on the money

How about the 125Mg Winny from Dpharm, and Test Cypionate 200MG per week, again consider my goal. I dont want to gain weight even if it is all muscle, I dont mind loosing 10-15 Lbs of fat and adding 3,4 lb of muscle but in that ratio some what.

Why such little feedback, I thought I would here from alot more people.

 

[Makavelli]

Taking Winstrol eod will have your blood levels all over the place. You won't get the best results and you will get more sides. You want blood levels to be stable. How much you gain is all about your diet. If you don't want to gain then do the cycle I suggested and diet hard. It's that simple. I think you're over analyzing the AAS part and not looking at your diet.

 

[SwolK]

First of all, do not use Winny for 12 weeks! it will Kill your liver.
Second Eq needs to be run AT LEAST 10 weeks, preferably 12 weeks.
thrird, IMO test not necessary.
last, IMO will can be injected eod like i said just my opinion from my experience

so try
weeks 1-12 400mg EQ
weeks 7-12 100mg winny eod or 50mg ed
pct

I think this will be simple and effective given your goals

 

[oceandweller4]

Taking Winstrol eod will have your blood levels all over the place. You won't get the best results and you will get more sides. You want blood levels to be stable. How much you gain is all about your diet. If you don't want to gain then do the cycle I suggested and diet hard. It's that simple. I think you're over analyzing the AAS part and not looking at your diet.

Dieting hard is a given, lets say I decide to do ED 50MG, how long can I do this before affecting my liver and all. Also Should I add Test Cypionate about 200 MG a week during that time. What do you think of doing the Winny Mon-Fri resting weekends, and also how about Drinking the Injectable because otherwise that is alot if Pinching ? I got Dpharm 125MG perhaps drink 1/2 CC ED (62.5MG) minus whatever the liver kills off should be close to 50MG that actually gets absorbed ?

Also how many weeks should I do this for, and tell me what you think about adding Test Cyp.

 

[Makavelli]

I would run the cyp at 400 mgs/wk for 12 weeks. Run the winstrol the last 6 weeks at 50 mgs/day. You can drink the Winstrol, but you have to use it at least twice a day when drinking it. It's not going to be released evenly like if you shot it IM. It will hit all at once so you need to split it up. Use the Winstrol for the whole 6 weeks. Why would you want to have your blood levels all over the place during the cycle. Again, you want to keep your blood levels stable. There's no point in taking a couple days off and then going back on. There's no min or max amount of time one can take orals. Some have liver problems quickly and some never have them. It depends on the person. 6 weeks is safe for most. Have your liver tested after and then you'll know how it affects you.

 

[c gheller]

Forget the AAS and diet Bro. Whats the point of AAS if your happy with your current LBM?

 

[oceandweller4]

Forget the AAS and diet Bro. Whats the point of AAS if your happy with your current LBM?

Point Taken, but no matter how clean you eat, and how slowly you loose Fat you will still sacrifice some muscle, I would like to preserve my hard earned muscle during this dieting phase thats the POINT. I am doing alot of cardio and I will sacrifice some muscle, just looking for some help in keeping it.

 

[c gheller]

Bro i took no AAS for 2 years and dieted the majority of that time, maintaining low bf. All i did was cycle Clen in that time. Worked really well for me too. I see where your coming from though.

 

[oceandweller4]

Bro i took no AAS for 2 years and dieted the majority of that time, maintaining low bf. All i did was cycle Clen in that time. Worked really well for me too. I see where your coming from though.

I only dabbled silly with AAS once about 8 years ago and for about 6 weeks, got some results, but have been really natural all the time. I am trying to diet hard pre-summer time and I know that cutting those extra calories and adding the cardio will kill some muscle and strength at the same time. I dont want to gain any size really, I am 6"1 220 right now with good LBM but would like to sharpen the edges. Would love to be 205 with same LBM.

I have been reading posts about Winny for 3 days straight and so far the only thing I can for sure say is that most of the information is conflicting. I guess I am going to have to experiment for myself. I am going to do 62.5MG EOD for the first 4 weeks and then see how that goes, If I feel I am not getting anwhere I am going to kick it up to ED for the next 4 and make some comparisons.

The other big thing is it would be great to drink the Depot, but just like dosages and terms most of the info I find is conflicting. I dont mind the needle but ED WOW thats alot to think about.

Would be nice if someone with some good Pharmacological background would chime in on this.

 

[JohnnyWest]

I only dabbled silly with AAS once about 8 years ago and for about 6 weeks, got some results, but have been really natural all the time. I am trying to diet hard pre-summer time and I know that cutting those extra calories and adding the cardio will kill some muscle and strength at the same time. I dont want to gain any size really, I am 6"1 220 right now with good LBM but would like to sharpen the edges. Would love to be 205 with same LBM.

I have been reading posts about Winny for 3 days straight and so far the only thing I can for sure say is that most of the information is conflicting. I guess I am going to have to experiment for myself. I am going to do 62.5MG EOD for the first 4 weeks and then see how that goes, If I feel I am not getting anwhere I am going to kick it up to ED for the next 4 and make some comparisons.

The other big thing is it would be great to drink the Depot, but just like dosages and terms most of the info I find is conflicting. I dont mind the needle but ED WOW thats alot to think about.

Would be nice if someone with some good Pharmacological background would chime in on this.

Yes you can drink winny, it worked just aswell for me drinking it ED as it did IM ED. You can run the winstrol if you want but if all you want to do is preserve muscle why don't you just run a low dose test? If you want you can add the winstrol towards the end but the only purpose that would probably serve would be to add some LBM. Whatever you do goodluck.

 

[oceandweller4]

Yes you can drink winny, it worked just aswell for me drinking it ED as it did IM ED. You can run the winstrol if you want but if all you want to do is preserve muscle why don't you just run a low dose test? If you want you can add the winstrol towards the end but the only purpose that would probably serve would be to add some LBM. Whatever you do goodluck.

Thanks for your shared experience. What was your ED dosage ? Where you just squirting in mouth or drinking with something else ? Before Meals ? In the Morning ? Give me some details. Also how long did you do this for ? Share your results with me, how did BF and LBM change ? If you look at my earlier post I said I dont mind adding 2-3 lbs but my main goal is to preserve and ger rid of the fat (through diet and cardio and lifting) but to preserve or perhaps a bit of LBM.

Im 34 and its getting harder and harder to bring those ABS out. Seems that when I get lean that I loose some LBM and the Abs get faded. Then I put on some LBM but the Fat comes with it a bit (tried most diet combos, low carb, low fat, hi fat, most same results). My stomach is hard right now and I can feel the bumps of my six pack, but covered up. Need to shred that fat but not loose that LBM so they can stick out like before.

I have come to the conclusion that ED is significantly better than EOD but EOD will yield some results. But the Drinking the Depot over Injecting being close to the same or the same still WAYYYY conflicting information.

 

[c gheller]

Yes you can drink winny, it worked just aswell for me drinking it ED as it did IM ED. You can run the winstrol if you want but if all you want to do is preserve muscle why don't you just run a low dose test? If you want you can add the winstrol towards the end but the only purpose that would probably serve would be to add some LBM. Whatever you do goodluck.

Yep drink it Bro. Ive done both in the past and noticed NO difference between the two. Go with 50mg ED orally bro and take something to help your joints.

 

[oceandweller4]

Yep drink it Bro. Ive done both in the past and noticed NO difference between the two. Go with 50mg ED orally bro and take something to help your joints.

Thanks c G , how long can I do this daily without causing too much damage do you think ? 6, 8 weeks ? more ???