Why oral only so bad???

[gunnr17]

I have a question. I've done a good amount of research about aas. I still have a lot to learn but I have learned a lot. There's just one thing that doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe someone can explain it to me. Most people will tell you that orals only are a definite no go. They are just too hard on the body. But if your using a whole bunch of injectable shit, the same person will tell that orals are fine. So, someone clear this up for me. A substance can be really bad for you on its own but if stacked with a bunch of other substances its ok?

 

[25homes]

Because most are 17aa and trash the liver

 

[gunnr17]

yeah, I get that all 17aa's are hard on the liver. But why are they not hard on the liver when stacked with some test or something???? These injectables are not going to make the orals any less harsh on the liver. So why are they bad alone but ok when stacked with inj.??????

 

[KD1]

Well if you stack them with test you are gonna make hella better gains. Its like icing on the cake at that point - compared to just eating icing.

Man im hungry...

 

[immortalis]

Injectables only go through your system once, unlike orals which have to be injested, digested, put into the blood stream, and then back out of the body so its twice as hard on your body so-to-speak than injectables.


Thats a quick, brief explanation that might give you a better idea why orals in general are worse on your body that injectables. But its just a "general" explanation. Im in too much of a hurry right now to go into deeper detail.

 

[SwolK]

no, 17aa orals are hard on your liver no matter what. the reason people tell you not to run orals with out an injectable, is becuase the dose of winny or other orals you would need to take by itself are too high. also you would have to run the oral longer then 4-6 weeks to see major results.
for example, you should not run winny at 100mg per day for 12 weeks. so you can run test for 12 weeks and 50mg winny per day for 6 weeks.
do you follow?
bottom line, they are too hard on the liver to run at high dose for long periods to see results. so you stack with something that can be run for a longer period of time.

FOR the RECORD, I know some people do run dbol or var only cycles and get results, so I AM NOT trying to turn this into a debate of whether a noobie should run an oral only cycle. there are about a million threads debating that issue. this should not be one of them.

 

[todoveritas]

The concept involved is known in chemistry as "Synergism"- the interaction of two or more agents so that their combined effect is greater than the sum of their individual effects. Mathematically speaking, it's when 1 + 1 = 3. The now foundational knowledge of stacking was groundbreaking when it first came out in the early 70's. In the old days a BB would typically use one compound only and steadily increase its dose until it stopped working and then switch to a different compound. Obviously guys would push the limits past the safety barrier and the sides would really step in. When it was first discovered that Nandrolone + methandrostenedione in combination had a much greater effect than either Deca or D-bol did alone, AND had the added benefit of decreasing the sides of either, well, it opened a whole new world of development as can be seen in the massive physiques of today as compared to those of the "classic" era.

 

[cyrex]

orals are hard on the liver stacked or not stacked
why is an oral only cycle no good?
because orals typically are not strong enough to do half the good that injectables will do in any decent amount of time because they are 17aa so you can only take them safely for so long.
Stacking with injectables give you a boost for a little bit but typically you are still taking the injectable for a longer duration than the oral.

Also the sides with something like dbol are typicaly greater than those with the dosage of an injectable that would produce the same results.

so

Oral (dbol, var, tbol, androl, etc) only Pros:
A pussy doesn't have to pierce his skin with a needle
short half life so you can get it out of your system faster and see results quicker
quick temporary boost in strength
easier to hide (pills aren't anywhere near as suspect as a syringe and vial/amp)

Oral only Cons:
17aa (hard on your liver)
more common sides with the stronger ones (androl, dbol)
debilitating pumps (calves, lower back)
you can only take them for 4-6 weeks at a time
they can shut you down pretty hard and with a low half life it sometimes gives people a tendancy to forego PCT or at least not start when they should.
Easier to miss a dose since you need to take it much more frequently.
EXTREMELY expensive in comparison to an injectable
For example (these are play money prices using the currency *CY*)
if a 10ml 250mg/ml bottle of Test cost *CY*5000 which will last for 5 weeks at 2cc/wk (500mg/wk)
then 210 tabs of 5mg/tab dbol might cost *CY*15000 which will last for 5 weeks also (35 days) at 30mg/day
Anavar which is typically MORE expensive than dbol requires an even higher dose alone so it might be *CY*50000 ...



also orals and injectables are typically syngergistic meaning that if 1 tab of anavar gives you a +4 on strength/protein synthesis and 1 shot of Test E gives you +9 on strength/protein synthesis, taking 1 tab of anavar AND 1 shot of Test E might give you a +15 on strength/protein synthesis.

4+9 = 13 so as you can see taking both together is better than taking them alone . . .
so basically what you are seeing is

So from a financial standpoint, orals are typically more $ for the strenght/muscle value and since using them alone gives you less benefit from using them concurrently with an injectable, it is financially responsible to get as much benefit from the oral as possible and this is done by stacking with an injectable.

You can think of it in terms of weight loss with a thermogenic (let's use t-rex)
You can take t-rex and sit on your ass all day and burn more calories than you would if you went and did 30 min of cardio.
You can do 30 min of cardio with no t-rex and burn a good amount of calories
OR you can burn a TON more calories by taking t-rex AND doing 30 min of cardio (which will go by easier because of the kick t-rex gives ya).

t-rex is much more usefull if you have a caloric deficit in your diet and do cardio.


An even better comparison would be EPHEDRA

would you recommend to someone to take an ECA stack that eats like crap, doesn't diet properly and doesn't exercise to take 3 caps of the old xenadrine or hydroxycut with ephedra? Hell no, they get all jittery, raised blood pressure, excess sweating and assuming they still eat the same as before (no appetite suppression) it won't do much for them other than burn a few more calories, but toss in proper diet, exercise, etc and fat drops off like crazy.

 

[karachi183]

orals are hard on the liver stacked or not stacked
why is an oral only cycle no good?
because orals typically are not strong enough to do half the good that injectables will do in any decent amount of time because they are 17aa so you can only take them safely for so long.
Stacking with injectables give you a boost for a little bit but typically you are still taking the injectable for a longer duration than the oral.

Also the sides with something like dbol are typicaly greater than those with the dosage of an injectable that would produce the same results.

so

Oral (dbol, var, tbol, androl, etc) only Pros:
A pussy doesn't have to pierce his skin with a needle
short half life so you can get it out of your system faster and see results quicker
quick temporary boost in strength
easier to hide (pills aren't anywhere near as suspect as a syringe and vial/amp)

Oral only Cons:
17aa (hard on your liver)
more common sides with the stronger ones (androl, dbol)
debilitating pumps (calves, lower back)
you can only take them for 4-6 weeks at a time
they can shut you down pretty hard and with a low half life it sometimes gives people a tendancy to forego PCT or at least not start when they should.
Easier to miss a dose since you need to take it much more frequently.
EXTREMELY expensive in comparison to an injectable
For example (these are play money prices using the currency *CY*)
if a 10ml 250mg/ml bottle of Test cost *CY*5000 which will last for 5 weeks at 2cc/wk (500mg/wk)
then 210 tabs of 5mg/tab dbol might cost *CY*15000 which will last for 5 weeks also (35 days) at 30mg/day
Anavar which is typically MORE expensive than dbol requires an even higher dose alone so it might be *CY*50000 ...



also orals and injectables are typically syngergistic meaning that if 1 tab of anavar gives you a +4 on strength/protein synthesis and 1 shot of Test E gives you +9 on strength/protein synthesis, taking 1 tab of anavar AND 1 shot of Test E might give you a +15 on strength/protein synthesis.

4+9 = 13 so as you can see taking both together is better than taking them alone . . .
so basically what you are seeing is

So from a financial standpoint, orals are typically more $ for the strenght/muscle value and since using them alone gives you less benefit from using them concurrently with an injectable, it is financially responsible to get as much benefit from the oral as possible and this is done by stacking with an injectable.

You can think of it in terms of weight loss with a thermogenic (let's use t-rex)
You can take t-rex and sit on your ass all day and burn more calories than you would if you went and did 30 min of cardio.
You can do 30 min of cardio with no t-rex and burn a good amount of calories
OR you can burn a TON more calories by taking t-rex AND doing 30 min of cardio (which will go by easier because of the kick t-rex gives ya).

t-rex is much more usefull if you have a caloric deficit in your diet and do cardio.


An even better comparison would be EPHEDRA

would you recommend to someone to take an ECA stack that eats like crap, doesn't diet properly and doesn't exercise to take 3 caps of the old xenadrine or hydroxycut with ephedra? Hell no, they get all jittery, raised blood pressure, excess sweating and assuming they still eat the same as before (no appetite suppression) it won't do much for them other than burn a few more calories, but toss in proper diet, exercise, etc and fat drops off like crazy.

EXTREMELY expensive in comparison to an injectable

I beg to differ on a few comments above but this one above the most....
Orals are cheap strong and fast acting. Injects = aas of choice / pins / a clean private setting / effective pct etc....

Orals = eat em an go!!!!!!!!!

 

[gunnr17]

Thanks for clearing that up. Obviously, the only logic behind that idea(no oral only) is that people would need to take higher dosages of an oral alone in order to get the same results as if they stacked with some test. Thats a no brainer. The problem with that is most guys are taking say 50-100mgs of winny or 40-60 of var along with the test and all the other shit, which is no less than someone on an oral only cycle would take. Obvioulsy, the guy on the test is going to see more results, but if the guy doing oral only has done his research, he shouldnt be looking for those types of gains from var or winny.
You know, not everyone wants to gain 20-30 lbs. And then lose 50% or more because it was water. A lot of people are happy with 5-10lbs of quality muscle. Especially when it comes with minimal sides.

 

[cyrex]

EXTREMELY expensive in comparison to an injectable

I beg to differ on a few comments above but this one above the most....
Orals are cheap strong and fast acting. Injects = aas of choice / pins / a clean private setting / effective pct etc....

Orals = eat em an go!!!!!!!!!

orals are NOT cheap by any means when you are comparing dose to dose. Remember 1 shot of Test E lasts a good 2 weeks whereas 1 dose of dbol lasts 10 hours or so. I'm comparing apples to apples not cycle to cycle.

 

[justinjones1963]

orals are NOT cheap by any means when you are comparing dose to dose. Remember 1 shot of Test E lasts a good 2 weeks whereas 1 dose of dbol lasts 10 hours or so. I'm comparing apples to apples not cycle to cycle.

I agree with that BUT with powders on the scene it can be cheaper for orals if you add in the costs of getting a gear kit and dealing with the hassle of homebrew etc.

Just to add an aditional 2 cc's...one you stick yourself with a needle you will think twice before taking orals again. Aside from worrying about abscesses it is 100 times better than taking orals....and better on the body.

 

[karachi183]

Orals IMO are the cheapest. when considering injects you need at least 500mg a week (of any test) along with "optional" (another compound) as well as proper pct (pct a must). There's no just jumping on let's say test e and everything will be peachy. But then there's good ol dbol... eat em an go .... I'm prolly one of the last guys who actually loves dbol alone for example and grow like a weed off it.

I must say not many ppl share my views on orals.. or at least dbol in particular...

But cmon for under 100 for 100 5mg dbols = 4 weeks of pure fun

 

[djsf]

Orals are hard on your liver, in too high or too long a dose. Very harsh orals such as anadrol should be run with extreme caution, and only for very short cycles, like 2-3 weeks, at low dose. Other orals, such as dianabol, are still pretty harsh, but can be run for 4 weeks or so ad moderate doses. Next comes your winstrol, should should be run no longer than 6-7 weeks, and then anavar, which can be run somewhat longer, but you still must not go crazy with the doses.

If you choose to run orals, have your liver values checked regularly!

Injectables are a lot safer because they are not processed by the livers as orals are. However, using extreme doses can still be really hard on the body (as with anything in extreme). Reasonable doses of injectables should be far easier on the body than reasonable doses of orals. That is one reason why injectables are strongly recommended over orals, not to mention they are usually less expensive and more effective than orals.

 

[cyrex]

I agree with that BUT with powders on the scene it can be cheaper for orals if you add in the costs of getting a gear kit and dealing with the hassle of homebrew etc.

Just to add an aditional 2 cc's...one you stick yourself with a needle you will think twice before taking orals again. Aside from worrying about abscesses it is 100 times better than taking orals....and better on the body.

well if you want to bring powders into the mix.. if you are talking about a fina kit.. that is a pain but if you talk Test powders, you can make 20 vials of test MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper than it would take to make that many caps of dbol . . .