Why does everyone on this board thinks 500mg test is a good beginner cycle?????

[cccp]

1). Test is one of the strongest steroids out there, which means it should be saved for later cycles.

2). 500mg a week??? Beginners can gain very good at a much lower dosage than that. Plus, with later cycles you have to up the dosages to see any decent gaines, so why start with 500mg/week only to progress later on to 1-2g/week? Damn, save your money. And health.

 

[ultragainz]

bro why not just have everyone do 100mgs/wk....and fina is stronger then test..it blows test away

and did you read the post by Andy13???he did a post about rookie cycle and the amounts....and 500mgs of test is fine....

so if fina is stronger then test....you wouldnt let a rookie hit fina for a first cycle huh? LOL......if you did what would you tell them???lick the fina???or just take 25mgs eod...

 

[Suspension]

anything less than 500mg/wk is a waste of money--for most people. Thats why.

 

[Dr.RobertBanner]

B/C 500mg of test is a GREAT beginner cycle.

 

[santo smith]

test sucks

 

[manny78]

500 mg of test with an anti-E such has liquidex/arimidex is safe and gives good results. No need to worry about your sex-drive. Of course for a first cycle you may have different opinions: deca/dbols, Primo/dbols, test/dbols but I still believe 500 mg is a good dosage considering sides/results ratio.

 

[OKIE]

I would have to agree with CCCP. Of course nothing applies to all people, but I think many people can get good gains from 250mg/week. I have buddies who gaind 20lbs on 250mg/week of T-200 or Aratest.

 

[bigpimp]

i dont give a shit if you are a rookie or a vet
Big dosages = Big gains
Small Dosages = Small Gains

 

[MadCow1]

If the same person can gain 15lbs. from 250mg weekly and 20 from 500mg weekly:

100% increase in dosage yields 25% increase in gains - this is diminishing returns where each successive unit of weight gain demands a greater increasing dosage to the eventual point of total saturation. (numbers are out of my head but probably close to what guys are getting)

The trick is to find the balance. Personally, everybody gets gains with 500mg if they don't they have a major problem. Only the people who have good receptors or really know how to train gain well on less.

I can't remember meeting anyone in the gyms recently that I believe knows how to train correctly. That includes a fair amount of roido boys. Before the internet, no one would hook the newbie lifter up with juice - why bother when the guy doesn't even know how to lift correctly. Now anyone can get it. I think the increased dosages are a reflection of this factor as well as the general excess in the sport of bodybuilding which is a sport (loose interpetation - maybe more of a beauty pageant as the similarities are striking) based on increasing drug dosages.

In the 50's - everybody gained of 10-15mg of dbol. This is what the guys in venice agreed to limit their dosages to as well as what the lifters in York started with. Now every first cycle needs 30mg as a kickstart.

Go figure...excuse my rant. Somday you guys will be explaining to people that no one needs 50mg of dbol and 1000 mgs of test for a first cycle.

 

[Suspension]

If the same person can gain 15lbs. from 250mg weekly and 20 from 500mg weekly:

100% increase in dosage yields 25% increase in gains - this is diminishing returns where each successive unit of weight gain demands a greater increasing dosage to the eventual point of total saturation. (numbers are out of my head but probably close to what guys are getting)

The trick is to find the balance. Personally, everybody gets gains with 500mg if they don't they have a major problem. Only the people who have good receptors or really know how to train gain well on less.

I can't remember meeting anyone in the gyms recently that I believe knows how to train correctly. That includes a fair amount of roido boys. Before the internet, no one would hook the newbie lifter up with juice - why bother when the guy doesn't even know how to lift correctly. Now anyone can get it. I think the increased dosages are a reflection of this factor as well as the general excess in the sport of bodybuilding which is a sport (loose interpetation - maybe more of a beauty pageant as the similarities are striking) based on increasing drug dosages.

In the 50's - everybody gained of 10-15mg of dbol. This is what the guys in venice agreed to limit their dosages to as well as what the lifters in York started with. Now every first cycle needs 30mg as a kickstart.

Go figure...excuse my rant. Somday you guys will be explaining to people that no one needs 50mg of dbol and 1000 mgs of test for a first cycle.

Look at the bodybuilders now compared to those in the 50's. No comparison. Thats what people are after...get as huge as possible in the shortest amount of time.

 

[nautica]

I agree - 500 mg of test per week sux. I like 1000 mg per week.

Nautica

 

[JG1]

I prefer milder cycle myself. This is my fourth cycle and I still don't go above 500mg/test weekly, and I still make great gains on that dose without haveing to up it everytime. Although I do use things along with the test (tren, perhaps EQ)

 

[MadCow1]

Look at the bodybuilders now compared to those in the 50's. No comparison. Thats what people are after...get as huge as possible in the shortest amount of time.

Very true - personally I've never looked in the mirror and thought that I needed 20-30lbs. Maybe 10-15 (I'm 6'3") but I can't imagine thinking I'd look better with a total metamorphosis.

Still the real point is to look at the BBers and weightlifters in the 50's compared to todays newbie. If they gained off these dosages at their genetic potential the newb definitely should. The only difference is the training, most of the newbs on here eat far better than these guys did.

 

[Mikey D-time]

500 mg of test with an anti-E such has liquidex/arimidex is safe and gives good results. No need to worry about your sex-drive. Of course for a first cycle you may have different opinions: deca/dbols, Primo/dbols, test/dbols but I still believe 500 mg is a good dosage considering sides/results ratio.

agreed, although I'll aknowlege that everyone is different

 

[Dr.RobertBanner]

i dont give a shit if you are a rookie or a vet
Big dosages = Big gains
Small Dosages = Small Gains [/QUO

Brillant!!

Just b/c someone can make gains on less, doesn't mean it's the best cycle, someone can make gains with NO STEROIDS, does that mean this is the best cycle for them? Of course not. If you want to make the most of your first cycle, you take appropriate doses, not as little as you can get away with. And 500mg of test seems to be a pretty good place to start, some may be better off starting with more, a few less. And why not use the steroid that got you where you are today, the only one w/ both AR and non-AR mediated mechanisms of action, the best all around drug (followed closely by tren), TEST. Not to mention it is a lot cheaper and more effective mg to mg than most other steroids out there (although again, tren is a close second). Bottom line, you want the most size out of your first cycle, test is the way to go.

 

[sauerbrauten]

i dont give a shit if you are a rookie or a vet
Big dosages = Big gains
Small Dosages = Small Gains

I agree 100%

 

[nautica]

i dont give a shit if you are a rookie or a vet
Big dosages = Big gains
Small Dosages = Small Gains [/QUO

Brillant!!

Just b/c someone can make gains on less, doesn't mean it's the best cycle, someone can make gains with NO STEROIDS, does that mean this is the best cycle for them? Of course not. If you want to make the most of your first cycle, you take appropriate doses, not as little as you can get away with. And 500mg of test seems to be a pretty good place to start, some may be better off starting with more, a few less. And why not use the steroid that got you where you are today, the only one w/ both AR and non-AR mediated mechanisms of action, the best all around drug (followed closely by tren), TEST. Not to mention it is a lot cheaper and more effective mg to mg than most other steroids out there (although again, tren is a close second). Bottom line, you want the most size out of your first cycle, test is the way to go.

Very good post, nice to see a newbie with a little back ground that can add to the boards. (Although, you will have some here put test behind tren, but everyone has their own opinions.)

Nautica

 

[jc21]

well the reason i think 500mg/wk is good for a newbie is cause it worked well for me. first cycle i used 250mg/wk of omna and it sucked. then i did 500mg/wk test and some deca and the gains were awesome. so people dont respond to low doses of androgens!!!

 

[MadCow1]

Bottom line, you want the most size out of your first cycle, test is the way to go.

This is most likely the issue. A significant portion of people want the "most".

Personally, when I experiment with new drugs (and I've done my share) I like to test the waters and see what it's about before I try to maximize things. That's my mentality and I am less critical of 500mgs of test than I am with the "classic first cycle" 30mgs dbol, 500mgs test, 400mgs deca.

Most guys will gain well on 200-300mgs weekly and the majority seems to add 15+ pounds over 8 weeks (most seem to be quoting 20lbs.). Is this not enough? I think that people who share my somewhat cautious mentality get lost on these boards and end up with mega cycles because they don't think they can gain on anything less.

 

[RussianBro]

Hey, bratan... Kak dela?
well, I still run my 500 of sust (last two weeks its Omna) and gains are good, damn good... I was silly to run 250 for first two weeks (while I was running dbol), but I wanted to play it safe, see how my body reacts to it. Well, I have small puffy nips, but I had it left from damn pro-hormones. I started at 152-153 and now at 175. No bloat, ripped as hell (watching my diet) and still keep my 6 pack... I think 500 is the way to go...
Now I can't wait to try fina in fall (smiling and rolling his tun on his lips).
by the way, moy tovarish, I hadn't used any anti-e. but i have Nolva on hand though...
do skorogo, bratan..

 

[Dr.RobertBanner]

Very good post, nice to see a newbie with a little back ground that can add to the boards. (Although, you will have some here put test behind tren, but everyone has their own opinions.)

Nautica

Thank you very much, that means a lot to me. Seriously. The reasons I put the tren behind the test are:

1) frequency of injections, ED is a little much for most newbies, also this usually entails more injection sites in you rotation

2) price, although tren is cheap, it's only cheap if you make your own (not something first timers are to keen on usually), and if you find a good deal on good test, it can still be a lot cheaper than homemade "golden goodness"

3) tren gyno is harder to deal with (sounds like we're still working on it w/ vitex, bromo, and whatever huck is trying to get for us), test only requires l-dex, letrozole, or nolva, all much easier to get

4) tren works best for mass w/ a class 2 steroid (d-bol, winny, etc...) or with test

If the tren gyno problem is put to rest and someone comes out w/ para again at a decent price, it will probably be a tie or a win for tren, though.

That said I think the ideal situation is a test/tren stack, which is what I'll be starting very soon (psyched!!!) if my damn test ever gets here.

 

[da big thinker]

i dont give a shit if you are a rookie or a vet
Big dosages = Big gains
Small Dosages = Small Gains

sorry...but this is an ignorant statement...if you think that your gains will come from higher dosages,you are sadly mistaken my friend.

 

[bigpimp]

sorry...but this is an ignorant statement...if you think that your gains will come from higher dosages,you are sadly mistaken my friend.

damn....then someone should tell ronnie coleman that he is doing it all wrong

 

[argent]

You also need to account for the size of the person. A 5' 0" 140 lb. guy could probably be fine w/ less than 500mg, but a 6' 3" 220 lb. guy might need more than 250mg.

 

[cccp]

privet RussianBro! How tall are you?
è ãäå ñåé÷àñ íàõîäèøüñÿ? ß â Òàëàõàñè, Ôëîðèäà. õîæó â óíèâåð ÔÑÞ

 

[da big thinker]

damn....then someone should tell ronnie coleman that he is doing it all wrong

let's take a more realistic approach pimp...tell us what dosages you are using and let us know your stats...?i know tons of guys who are using high dosages who are merely trying to break the 190 barrier...then you have a few using moderate dosages w/ proper diet and training as well as recup,growing faster than expected and breaking 230-250lbs barrier...to say something like higher dosages = bigger gains is ignorant...take the time to include all factors necessary to GROW instead of stating something like that...if you feel it necessary to follow in ronnie's foot steps...lol...then you can go ahead...but you DON'T need high dosages for big gains...

 

[Nathan]

I think 400mg-500mg/week is a good first dose since it's a bit of a gamble whether or not you will gain well from 250mg/week whereas if you can't gain phenomenally off 500mg/week then you suck ass and it is probably your own damn fault.

 

[bigpimp]

let's take a more realistic approach pimp...tell us what dosages you are using and let us know your stats...?i know tons of guys who are using high dosages who are merely trying to break the 190 barrier...then you have a few using moderate dosages w/ proper diet and training as well as recup,growing faster than expected and breaking 230-250lbs barrier...to say something like higher dosages = bigger gains is ignorant...take the time to include all factors necessary to GROW instead of stating something like that...if you feel it necessary to follow in ronnie's foot steps...lol...then you can go ahead...but you DON'T need high dosages for big gains...

i agree with one thing...........anyone trying to break 190 should use a relatively low dose around 500-750 a week of test
but 220 and up i would say to do no less than 1500mg a week of test and even that is low
i have talked with a few pro's about this and they basically said the same thing if you want to get big you have to take big gear, bottom line

 

[da big thinker]

i agree with one thing...........anyone trying to break 190 should use a relatively low dose around 500-750 a week of test
but 220 and up i would say to do no less than 1500mg a week of test and even that is low
i have talked with a few pro's about this and they basically said the same thing if you want to get big you have to take big gear, bottom line

PIMP...i guess we don't see eye to eye...let me explain bro...i am 235 lbs and still growing confortably w/ 500mg test...why is it that everyone assumes dosages relate to bodyweight...it all depends on how much test is naturally flowing already into your system...if a 220 lb bber has naturally low test levels,then perhaps your theory MIGHT work...but if a 220 lb bber has naturally high levels of test...then what...?i really don't think bwt has anything to do with it,but rather the individiual himself and how much natural test is circulating in his own body...neverthless,if you consider natural test levels in anyone's body...you will quickly find out that 500mg/week is a whopping amount to anybody regardless of bwt...that's all i'm trying to say...---fyi

PS:i can just see lil' joey reading this on elite and thinking that he needs 1500mg of test to grow because he's naturally "big" at 200 lbs...

 

[bigpimp]

PIMP...i guess we don't see eye to eye...let me explain bro...i am 235 lbs and still growing confortably w/ 500mg test...why is it that everyone assumes dosages relate to bodyweight...it all depends on how much test is naturally flowing already into your system...if a 220 lb bber has naturally low test levels,then perhaps your theory MIGHT work...but if a 220 lb bber has naturally high levels of test...then what...?i really don't think bwt has anything to do with it,but rather the individiual himself and how much natural test is circulating in his own body...neverthless,if you consider natural test levels in anyone's body...you will quickly find out that 500mg/week is a whopping amount to anybody regardless of bwt...that's all i'm trying to say...---fyi

PS:i can just see lil' joey reading this on elite and thinking that he needs 1500mg of test to grow because he's naturally "big" at 200 lbs...

no prob..some people will never see eye to eye
but i am just saying what i have been told by guys that are 270lbs at 4% bf
but then again everyone is different and reacts differently, but i am still sticking to my fisrt post

 

[FatChops]

i speak from experience I did 500mg/wk and my gains were sweet 40 lbs total kept 25lbs.

FC

 

[bigpimp]

i speak from experience I did 500mg/wk and my gains were sweet 40 lbs total kept 25lbs.

FC

yeah but what did you start out as like 180-190

i had great gains too off of 500 mg a week but i also weighed 165 lbs

 

[Roy]

I really do get sick of this more is better attitude. People bragging how they take a gram or two of test and other ridiculous amounts of steroids. What ever happened to working out as hard as a motherfucker? If you use a reasonable amount of juice, and train as hard as humanly possible, then you can expect good gains. Just because you use a gram of test, doesnt mean that it will work so much better than 500mg, your body can handle only so much. And when you use the pro's as an excuse as to why you should use a shitload of juice, remember that they have been working out longer than you have, and it is their job to be huge, so they work at it day and night. They eat properly and workout hard, many guys you see taking huge amounts of juice workout half ass and slack off on their eating. I have seen guys bragging about taking a gram of test and 75mg of fina ED, and when they take off their shirt they look like absolute ass, and bitch about how they gain muscle, but are as fat as hell. Use in moderation and workout damn hard, and you will look just as good (if not better) than some shlub on 1.5g of Test.

 

[MadCow1]

yeah but what did you start out as like 180-190

i had great gains too off of 500 mg a week but i also weighed 165 lbs

240 gaining off 40mg of var daily and struggling to keep weight down
230 gained 12 lbs. (kept 2 weeks after) in 4 weeks of 15mgs of dbol ED
215 gained 15lbs. off deca at 200mg weekly
180 gained 20 lbs. of 20mg dbol ED + 60mg of fina ED

A few examples - obviously I haven't had to rachet the dosages up much. Then again I rarely use drugs and my training is night and day compared to most bodybuilder types.

 

[The Man Child]

Well I'm on my 7th cycle right now. All of them have included Test. And guess what??? I still haven't gone over 700mg/week. And for the most part, they are ALL test only cycles! Started using steroids at 245lb. and right now I'm 295lb. with the same exact bodyfat that I started with two years ago. Now believe me, most people can't grow like I have, but in any regards, there is no law that says you gotta keep bumping up the doses each cycle.

 

[RussianBro]

privet RussianBro! How tall are you?
è ãäå ñåé÷àñ íàõîäèøüñÿ? ß â Òàëàõàñè, Ôëîðèäà. õîæó â óíèâåð ÔÑÞ

Privet, bratan!

ß ñåé÷àñ â Ãðåéò Ôîëëñ, Ìîíòàíà. Óíèâåð çàêîí÷ó â Ìàå ñëåäóþùåãî ãîäà. Õîæó â ÌÑÞ. ß ñåé÷àñ íà 500 Ñóñòàíîíà. Ìîé âåñ óæå 175 (ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ 153 êîãäà íà÷àë ìîé 10 íåäåëüíûé ðûâîê). ß 5'10". Âîîáùåòî ìîÿ öåëü 190-195.
Äî ñêîðîãî, áðàòàí...

 

[da big thinker]

no prob..some people will never see eye to eye
but i am just saying what i have been told by guys that are 270lbs at 4% bf
but then again everyone is different and reacts differently, but i am still sticking to my fisrt post

cool bro...

 

[argent]

Privet, bratan!

ß ñåé÷àñ â Ãðåéò Ôîëëñ, Ìîíòàíà. Óíèâåð çàêîí÷ó â Ìàå ñëåäóþùåãî ãîäà. Õîæó â ÌÑÞ. ß ñåé÷àñ íà 500 Ñóñòàíîíà. Ìîé âåñ óæå 175 (ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ 153 êîãäà íà÷àë ìîé 10 íåäåëüíûé ðûâîê). ß 5'10". Âîîáùåòî ìîÿ öåëü 190-195.
Äî ñêîðîãî, áðàòàí...

Now how come I don't have that font?

 

[emptywallet]

Ok then lets through this out to the floor, how much test enanthate a week should someone take who weighs in at 160? My brother is about 162 and worked his ass off the past few years to get there. He started out at like 130, he's only 5 foot 7, short like me. He's taken fina, small amounts of eq before, but never any test really. So how much enanthate a week for him?

 

[RussianBro]

Now how come I don't have that font?

it's easy, bro , you can have one too...

 

[cccp]

PIMP...i guess we don't see eye to eye...let me explain bro...i am 235 lbs and still growing confortably w/ 500mg test...why is it that everyone assumes dosages relate to bodyweight...it all depends on how much test is naturally flowing already into your system...if a 220 lb bber has naturally low test levels,then perhaps your theory MIGHT work...but if a 220 lb bber has naturally high levels of test...then what...?i really don't think bwt has anything to do with it,but rather the individiual himself and how much natural test is circulating in his own body...neverthless,if you consider natural test levels in anyone's body...you will quickly find out that 500mg/week is a whopping amount to anybody regardless of bwt...that's all i'm trying to say...---fyi

I really don't think that your natural test levels have any effect on what dose you should use to grow. Your body stops producing testosterone when you take gear, so those levels DO NOT add up.
A totally different reason is the number of receptors one has. But I'm not very familiar with that concept.

 

[cccp]

Hey, RussianBro, keep me updated on your cycle stats, ok? Ñêîëüêî òû âåñà íàáðàë, ñêîëüêî ïîòåðÿë, è âñå òàêîå. ß ñîáèðàþñü îêîëî íîâîãî ãîäà 300-500 ìã ýíàíòàòà íà÷àòü êîëîòü. È ìîæåò åùå äîáàâèòü ê ýòîìó 50ìã âèíñòðîëà eod. Åùå íå ðåøèë äî êîíöà ÷å èìåííî áóäó ïðèíèìàòü. ß çíàþ, íàäî áûòü ïîñòàðøå, íî ìíå 21 â Èþëå èñïîëíèòñÿ, è ÿ óæå íå ìîãó áîëüøå æäàòü. Ñîáèðàþñü ýòèì çàíÿòüñÿ óæå íåñêîëüêî ëåò..
Êñòàòè, ÿ òîæå â ìàå çàêàí÷èâàþ. Ó òåáÿ êàêîé major? Ó ìåíÿ MIS.
My stats are: 6', 200lbs, bf= ?????? well, I'm not cut. Õî÷ó åùå ìîæåò ôóíòîâ 10-15 íàáðàòü ïåðåä òåì êàê êîëîòüñÿ. I know you are cut, though. Ïî÷åìó òû ðåøèë íà÷àòü ïðèíèìàòü?

Ëàäíî, ïîêà!


Áëèí, ó òåáÿ ïî÷òîâûé ÿùèê ïåðåïîëíåí. Õîòåë ÏÌ-èòü âíà÷àëå.

 

[wartime100]

500 mg of test + 300mg of deca is a good beginner cycle that you will retain alot of gains from. Test is best!

 

[baryon]

I'm curious about people's response to EmptyWallet's question as I'm also around 165 pounds and thinking about taking 280mg/Week TestenPro (200mg every 5 days) for 8 weeks.

--baryon

 

[cccp]

yeah. now what?

 

[SanFrancisconewb]

I m exactly like Baryon as i weigh in at 165 at 6ft. My first cycle is going to be 400 (maybe 500) of sust.
(if i can ever get it/?@!)

 

[Surgical]

The best gains are made when the test is atleast 6-8 times above the normal endogenous level, which is about 75mg/wk.

 

[Miracle Man]

It is very difficult to put a cookie-cutter approach on how much testosterone one needs to take. Someone who suffers from a low baseline of testosterone will really not benefit much from 500 mg a week of any test. Someone with normal to high levels will respond to 500 mg per week. It will not take much for that person to be in that anabolic growth state versus someone with low levels. For the older bodybuilders 35 plus years and older, to get into that anabolic state with just pure testosterone will most likely be in the range of 1000 mg per week and up. Whereas a younger bodybuilder with a good baseline of testosterone will get into anabolic state at five and a milligrams per week.

 

[Lift Chief]

I think 400mg-500mg/week is a good first dose since it's a bit of a gamble whether or not you will gain well from 250mg/week whereas if you can't gain phenomenally off 500mg/week then you suck ass and it is probably your own damn fault.

Definitely!

500mg of test only for 10 weeks for a first cycle is a damn good one.

 

[Spidey]

I am only in my second cycle now so I don't profess to be a guru but...

In my own personal experience, test prop at 50 mg ed during my first cycle did very little for me except give me acne and make me horny as hell. That comes to 350 mg ew test prop which is equivalent to 407 mg ew test enan or 419 mg ew test cyp (taking into account the smaller molecular wt of test prop). During that cycle, I got lots of advise on diet and training from this board and did my best to incorporate it into my routine. I ate around 4000 cals ed with >300 g protein and worked out on a 4 day split. I know that doesn't sound like much to some of you but I only weighed in at 135 lbs (8% BF) to start. 5'8" and a classic ectomorph who hadn't gained weight in decades (35 yrs old). I have been lifting for about 10 years, give or take.

My best friend is androgen resistant. This guy can eat 6000 cals ed and workout religiously while taking enough AS to kill a few dozen M. Downey Juniors and he doesn't gain shit! It's amazing. This guy shoots 200 mg ed test prop and 150 mg ed fina and 50 mg ed dbol on just his second cycle!! I keep telling him to give it up; AS just aren't for him but he keeps trying.

Anyway, I digress. My point is that what works for some will not work for others. Everyone's body is different and reacts differently to AS. Test is the best for some but for others, something else might work better.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

i did tren/ winny for my first cycle. I think that having to inject ED has just made it easier since then.