Why do you need a base ?

[drow2y]

People say you need a base or you'll lose muscle eh ? I do believe you should Learn how to train and eat right first and get some natty gains but surely muscle gains are just muscle gains regardless of base am I wrong?

Give your thoughts on this ?

 

[supadan]

Aslong as your training is good and diet is good I can't see why you wouldn't keep gains like any one else tbh.
Train hard eat big = gains.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Muscle grown from enhancement isn't as stable, just as energy derived from stimulants doesn't make you over-all more energetic.

 

[stevesmi]

Aslong as your training is good and diet is good I can't see why you wouldn't keep gains like any one else tbh.
Train hard eat big = gains.

if you build muscle slowly over time it is far better than building muscle quick. gains are more keepable.. tendons and ligaments have to catch up to muscle growth.

now what you say is only true in certain situations. for example.

if you never lifted before.. go on dbol and go from benching 80 pounds to 150 pounsd then yes you can come off dbol and probably still get stronger. but guess what? had you been working out before steroids you could of easily gotten to 150 as it is... but this person needed steroids to get motivated, now when they come off guess what will happen to them? they will quit 99% of the time. seen it happen all the time

has anyone on this board NEVER lifted then went on steroids and now actually look good? NOBODY has. and if you have post up before and after pics for me and what you look like today OFF STEROIDS, not when you looked like during cycle. i bet that person looks like shit today cause they quit on the gym and didn't know how to gain without juicing

 

[supadan]

if you build muscle slowly over time it is far better than building muscle quick. gains are more keepable.. tendons and ligaments have to catch up to muscle growth.

now what you say is only true in certain situations. for example.

if you never lifted before.. go on dbol and go from benching 80 pounds to 150 pounsd then yes you can come off dbol and probably still get stronger. but guess what? had you been working out before steroids you could of easily gotten to 150 as it is... but this person needed steroids to get motivated, now when they come off guess what will happen to them? they will quit 99% of the time. seen it happen all the time

has anyone on this board NEVER lifted then went on steroids and now actually look good? NOBODY has. and if you have post up before and after pics for me and what you look like today OFF STEROIDS, not when you looked like during cycle. i bet that person looks like shit today cause they quit on the gym and didn't know how to gain without juicing

I agree with you on that tbh I know 2 lads who go to our gym there 210lb 6,1 and 12% bf they've been training 3 year that means there bigger than a lot of users on here. there's really no need for steroids at all but people want them fast gains.

 

[stevesmi]

I agree with you on that tbh I know 2 lads who go to our gym there 210lb 6,1 and 12% bf they've been training 3 year that means there bigger than a lot of users on here. there's really no need for steroids at all but people want them fast gains.

no such thing as fast gains. you can go on a deca/dbol/test cycle at 120 pounds and put on 40 pounds if you would like. but most of that is gonna be water and fat. muscle doesn't not grow fast. the body does not want to keep a lot of muscle on it, it will want to burn it away. this is why bodybuilding is hard and why very few commit to it.. most people who get into bodybuilding end up quitting, and that is OKAY. this isn't for everyone.

which is why on the AAS forum we have a high turnover rate. if you need steroids to get yourself motivated to lift or you need to stay on forever then sadly you really don't love bodybuilding. if you truely loved bodybuilding you would enjoy being off cycle as much as being on.

 

[nydj66]

My thoughts:

In theory, if you did everything right from day 1, you could start with proper diet, training, and gear and get quick gains and look the same as someone to took the longer route (although the point stevesmi made above about tendons is valid.)

The problem is that in practice, it is impossible to do evertyhing right from day 1. There is a learning curve; even if you have the most knowledgeable trainer in the world, you still have to learn your own body. You need to dial in your training and diet naturally; then add the gear for the incremental gain and lower BF potential.

 

[searay]

i read about a study where they disected muscle from a person who had been training naturally all there life and then after he had done a cycle. the muscle from the steroid enhanced gains had a different structure compared to the natural gained muscle. not sure what that means as far as keeping gains but so far the posts are right on about using aas before your really ready.

 

[drow2y]

i read about a study where they disected muscle from a person who had been training naturally all there life and then after he had done a cycle. the muscle from the steroid enhanced gains had a different structure compared to the natural gained muscle. not sure what that means as far as keeping gains but so far the posts are right on about using aas before your really ready.

So what your saying is steroid muscle is not the same ok

 

[1Johnboy]

Isn't muscle muscle?

This is interesting. How can muscle gained on gear be different than non gear muscle?
Aside maybe from water bloat or something I dont see how it can differ.

 

[dylangemelli]

muscle gained is muscle gained regardless... i think the point that is being missed here is that steroids are used (or should be used) to break plateaus... they should not be used as shortcuts or quick fixes because just like steve said, the gains won't last because people will get lazy and not do the proper work... steroids can get you over humps that we all get to at a point that we can not overcome naturally... some people's plateaus are much higher than others... that's why all of us react to different things a certain way... person A might not even react to a certain aas or but person B might put on 10-15 lbs... we are all structured differently and it takes years and years of training and studying to realize what we can try to do to get to certain points... everyone has a point they can just not surpass naturally... if you are comfortable staying stagnant, then so be it... if you want to try to get past that point, that's where steroids come in... they are called "performance enhancing drugs" because they enhance your fucking performance... you should have put in years and years of training and studying to get to your max levels though before you run them...

 

[Colstreamer]

Also, and this is just my theory, people's bodies seem to have a set point for weight that they like to stay at, gain or lose weight too quickly and you're fighting against your body. Ever notice how crash diets never work? It seems to me that the slower more steady way makes the more lasting results because the body has time to adjust to and accept the changes.

There's also the food matter, increasing consumption rapidly can be a pain in the arse! And when you're done bulking its a relief to cut back on the food, which, as has already been mentioned, isn't going to do the newly aquited muscle any favours. I know eating is the hardest thing for me but it's getting easier now I'm building up to the larger amounts of food rather than forcing shed loads down my neck (mind you my new diet is really helping a lot!). Just my thoughts.

 

[oxymoron]

along the same lines of steve's point about out growing joints (which is huge) is that your bone density wont be able to keep up with the accelerated muscle growth. i'd think stress fractures or who knows what else would be a big risk for some bird boy that decided one day to do a gram/wk and put on 30 lbs.

Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using the Elitefitness App.

 

[die faster]

bottom line is you need to graduate diet and training class before you move on to aas class.. like getting a CDL to drive a truck before getting your permit.. besides, being new the gains come so easy naturally at first anyway its the best cycle you can get..

 

[C.K.]

you lay a foundation before building a house or the house will colapse alot easier

 

[Typo]

i read about a study where they disected muscle from a person who had been training naturally all there life and then after he had done a cycle. the muscle from the steroid enhanced gains had a different structure compared to the natural gained muscle. not sure what that means as far as keeping gains but so far the posts are right on about using aas before your really ready.

I read a study done on guys who used to juice who gained muscle a lot easier and quicker compared to guys that have never touched it. It was an interesting read!

 

[stevesmi]

^^^this is exactly the reason kids should get involved in lifting weights in their mid teens. muscle memory is real. a 30 year old that never touched a weight is gonna struggle to put on muscle compared to a guy who lifted when he was younger.

 

[wcjcMr.O]

My thoughts:

In theory, if you did everything right from day 1, you could start with proper diet, training, and gear and get quick gains and look the same as someone to took the longer route (although the point stevesmi made above about tendons is valid.)

The problem is that in practice, it is impossible to do evertyhing right from day 1. There is a learning curve; even if you have the most knowledgeable trainer in the world, you still have to learn your own body. You need to dial in your training and diet naturally; then add the gear for the incremental gain and lower BF potential.

I strongly disagree with this.

Lets say there are 2 people. Person A, and Person B. They both weigh 150lbs before ever touching a weight. Person A trains, eats and supplements right to get to 200lbs NATTY. Person B juices from day 1 to get to 200lbs.

Person B will LOOK LIKE SHIT compared to person A.

Now lets say Person A starts using to get to 220lbs. And the other guy just keeps juicing to get to 220lbs. They will NOT LOOK THE SAME.

There is a certain look that you get from just jumping on gear instead of building a decent foundation first. Like that kid in the video on another post. He LOOKS like he's been juicing since day 1. Not to mention that when person A jumps on some gear, he's gonna blow away Person B.

 

[Typo]

I started a cycle when I was 25 after only lifting seriously for 12 months. My base was built from years of working physical jobs and doing sports type training.

If I had never juiced I feel I'd be about 5 years of natural lifting behind where I am now. I simply do not have that patience and is why I chose this path, and I am happy and comfortable with my decision.

 

[Laxfiend]

Another point I would like to make is joints and ligament growth. When I started bulking from my measely 143 lbs, I gained 30 lbs so far and im pretty solid now but I got it all natty!! Even then I got tendinitis while benching really heavy. Yes my diet is perfect and I take pretty much every natty supp under the sun and I still injured,myself.

So if I was to juice when I started, my joints and ligaments would definitely have been really messed up as they could not keep up.

Also, if you say you cant gain weight cause you have a high metabolism.... Yeah I have the highest metabolism ever... You are just not eating enough cause youre too damn lazy. So get it right or go home

Sent from my VM670 using EliteFitness

 

[drow2y]

I strongly disagree with this.

Lets say there are 2 people. Person A, and Person B. They both weigh 150lbs before ever touching a weight. Person A trains, eats and supplements right to get to 200lbs NATTY. Person B juices from day 1 to get to 200lbs.

Person B will LOOK LIKE SHIT compared to person A.

Now lets say Person A starts using to get to 220lbs. And the other guy just keeps juicing to get to 220lbs. They will NOT LOOK THE SAME.

There is a certain look that you get from just jumping on gear instead of building a decent foundation first. Like that kid in the video on another post. He LOOKS like he's been juicing since day 1. Not to mention that when person A jumps on some gear, he's gonna blow away Person B.

Great post bro

 

[Anabolic chest]

I'm 6'2 and 260 after just finishing a 14 week test cycle (750mg a week). This was my second injectable cycle. Now this is where it gets interesting, after my first test cycle (600mg a week) I was 250 with about the same BF. After this cycle I started a security job where I can't train or eat like a bodybuilder should for literally 8 weeks at a time. But after 18 months of eating the same portion sizes as 140lb filipino crew members (I do anti piracy work on ships, hence no gym) and doing nothing but pushups and chinups I weighed 240lb.
Do you know why? Because I lifted natty from 15yrs old at 190lbs to 25yrs old at 245lbs. Basically I'd built a solid base and this is now where my body feels most comfortable.
If I hadn't built that natural base I'd bet my house I'd have dropped down to around 215lbs at least.
This, in my eyes, is why it's imperative to build a natural base and I'd urge anyone to do so.
I jumped back on the juice after 18 months and after 14 weeks of moderate test dosage I'm now 260 and think I look pretty good.
If I had to do it all again I wouldn't jump ON sooner just for a shortcut, I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[semper03]

I'm 6'2 and 260 after just finishing a 14 week test cycle (750mg a week). This was my second injectable cycle. Now this is where it gets interesting, after my first test cycle (600mg a week) I was 250 with about the same BF. After this cycle I started a security job where I can't train or eat like a bodybuilder should for literally 8 weeks at a time. But after 18 months of eating the same portion sizes as 140lb filipino crew members (I do anti piracy work on ships, hence no gym) and doing nothing but pushups and chinups I weighed 240lb.
Do you know why? Because I lifted natty from 15yrs old at 190lbs to 25yrs old at 245lbs. Basically I'd built a solid base and this is now where my body feels most comfortable.
If I hadn't built that natural base I'd bet my house I'd have dropped down to around 215lbs at least.
This, in my eyes, is why it's imperative to build a natural base and I'd urge anyone to do so.
I jumped back on the juice after 18 months and after 14 weeks of moderate test dosage I'm now 260 and think I look pretty good.
If I had to do it all again I wouldn't jump ON sooner just for a shortcut, I wouldn't change a thing.

Dude I gotta see this 6'2 260 lbs, you gotta be a beast! Pics???


Hunter Of Gunmen

 

[Anabolic chest]

Dude I gotta see this 6'2 260 lbs, you gotta be a beast! Pics???


Hunter Of Gunmen

Im actually around 255 in my avi mate. Not sure about BF but I'd guess about 14%. My quads, hamstrings and glutes are also pretty big after years of low bar squatting.
That was week 7 of the cycle.

 

[wcjcMr.O]

I'm 6'2 and 260 after just finishing a 14 week test cycle (750mg a week). This was my second injectable cycle. Now this is where it gets interesting, after my first test cycle (600mg a week) I was 250 with about the same BF. After this cycle I started a security job where I can't train or eat like a bodybuilder should for literally 8 weeks at a time. But after 18 months of eating the same portion sizes as 140lb filipino crew members (I do anti piracy work on ships, hence no gym) and doing nothing but pushups and chinups I weighed 240lb.
Do you know why? Because I lifted natty from 15yrs old at 190lbs to 25yrs old at 245lbs. Basically I'd built a solid base and this is now where my body feels most comfortable.
If I hadn't built that natural base I'd bet my house I'd have dropped down to around 215lbs at least.
This, in my eyes, is why it's imperative to build a natural base and I'd urge anyone to do so.
I jumped back on the juice after 18 months and after 14 weeks of moderate test dosage I'm now 260 and think I look pretty good.
If I had to do it all again I wouldn't jump ON sooner just for a shortcut, I wouldn't change a thing.

I like it and totally agree bro. Good for you. I wish more bros would do this

 

[semper03]

Im actually around 255 in my avi mate. Not sure about BF but I'd guess about 14%. My quads, hamstrings and glutes are also pretty big after years of low bar squatting.
That was week 7 of the cycle.

It's hard to see on my iPhone but still you look pretty good bro! Great job man.


Hunter Of Gunmen

 

[jcmbbfuture]

There are a lot of things to consider here. I do believe that a good foundation will render more keepable gains on the future, but if everything is on point from day one for person A and B there will be a hide difference in physique over a set time. I have a perfect t example. At 5'8 and some change I reached 210lbs naturally at a pretty low bf. (Between 10-12%) I have been bodybuilding for over 5 years. I did my first cycle and topped out at 226lbs and still at a pretty low bf (about 13-15%) I ran 250mg of test e for 10 weeks. On the other hand I have a buddy who is a few months younger than me who has been bodybuilding for the same amount of time bit has been juicing from the start. He is about 5'10-11 and weighs over 230lbs and is no more than 7% bf. 7 weeks out of his next contest he could have dropped water and stepped on stage. He is a monster. Now I feel I have more potential and a better shape and foundation bit as of right now he is at least 2 years ahead of me in development. Now he def. works, eats, and trains very hard just like myself but the growth and juice has made.the difference.

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[drow2y]

There are a lot of things to consider here. I do believe that a good foundation will render more keepable gains on the future, but if everything is on point from day one for person A and B there will be a hide difference in physique over a set time. I have a perfect t example. At 5'8 and some change I reached 210lbs naturally at a pretty low bf. (Between 10-12%) I have been bodybuilding for over 5 years. I did my first cycle and topped out at 226lbs and still at a pretty low bf (about 13-15%) I ran 250mg of test e for 10 weeks. On the other hand I have a buddy who is a few months younger than me who has been bodybuilding for the same amount of time bit has been juicing from the start. He is about 5'10-11 and weighs over 230lbs and is no more than 7% bf. 7 weeks out of his next contest he could have dropped water and stepped on stage. He is a monster. Now I feel I have more potential and a better shape and foundation bit as of right now he is at least 2 years ahead of me in development. Now he def. works, eats, and trains very hard just like myself but the growth and juice has made.the difference.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness

Great post bro thanks for sharing

 

[GreenBastard]

oral only cycles seem to be under rated. i have run several oral only cycles before with one or two orals, at moderate doses, made excellent gains and kept most of them. for me personally, an oral only cycle with something such as Anadrol or D bol acts just like a test e or c 12 week cycle, i keep just as much as i would with the injectables but it comes in 4 weeks and not 12.