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Why Do We Lie to our Kids about Santa?

C

curling

New member
I mean we all know santa is a lie so why do we tell our kids he is real when they are kids? I mean I think Santa is Satan(think about it he wears a red suit and he has little dudes with pointed ears working for him and he gluttenous) trying to take the real meaning of Christmas away especially to kids.

So I just wondered why we would tell our kids about this crap instead of the real meaning of Christmas?
 
You mean he doesnt exist? What do you mean?.........tell me it aint so.

Dunno why we do it........bit like the Easter bunny. Besides we all know receiving presents is far more important than some religious story right?? :rolleyes:
 
because when christians - the original towel headed terrorists, were expanding across europe, they had to adopt many local pagan customs to get people to believe the great big lie.

hence

the christmas tree
the easter bunny
santa claus
oh and virgin birth.

Curling,

Jesus doesn't love you. he doesn't even like you. he was a belligerent Jewish guy who would have urinated on your value system.

Just so you know.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
because when christians - the original towel headed terrorists, were expanding across europe, they had to adopt many local pagan customs to get people to believe the great big lie.

hence

the christmas tree
the easter bunny
santa claus
oh and virgin birth.

Curling,

Jesus doesn't love you. he doesn't even like you. he was a belligerent Jewish guy who would have urinated on your value system.

Just so you know.
Click to expand...

Damn.........and there was me trying not piss him off.
 
I will teach my children the real reason for Christmas and I will also enjoy the giving of gifts and Santa. Santa is about giving, charity, and making good decisions. You, as a parent, can teach your children many valuable lessons about life with Santa.
 
Same reason we lie to them about Jesus, Moses and the Arc I guess.
 
big4life said:
I think that you can teach them the real meaning of christmas and let them have santa. :)
Click to expand...

AT 5, my son knows the real meaning behinf CHRISTmas. He understands the concept from a religious perspective. HE also enjoys the idea of Santa coming to the house with toys he wants as a reward for his good behavior over the last year,. Its fun for kids. whats wrong with that. its not a huge conspiracy or deception, IMO.
 
sh4dowf4lcon said:
I will teach my children the real reason for Christmas and I will also enjoy the giving of gifts and Santa. Santa is about giving, charity, and making good decisions. You, as a parent, can teach your children many valuable lessons about life with Santa.
Click to expand...



I feel 100% the same way! I knew I liked you for a reason.
 
There's no thing such as Santa? wtf And all this time I thought Wodin was Santa and I kissed his ass in PM's for nothing. I feel so dirty now.
 
There's no thing such as Santa? wtf And all this time I thought Wodin was Santa and I kissed his ass in PM's for nothing. I feel so dirty now.
 
You gotta be kidding about that Santa=Satan thing. Gimme a break.
 
Originally posted by

Jesus doesn't love you. he doesn't even like you. he was a belligerent Jewish guy who would have urinated on your value system.

Just so you know. [/B]
Click to expand...


You know matt what is weird is that we really think alot alike on alot of issues but then you go and say something like this and it blows my mind. You are a very odd person. What did Jesus do to you other than came to save you that makes you so belligerant towards Him?
 
curling said:
I mean I think Santa is Satan(think about it he wears a red suit and he has little dudes with pointed ears working for him and he gluttenous) trying to take the real meaning of Christmas away especially to kids.
Click to expand...

Dude... just chill out and enjoy the season. Equating santa to satan is just plain simple minded.
 
Matt gets Karma. the HORROR!!! ;)

Santa? The big red suited guy? You fools, he was INVENTED by the marketing folks for Coca-Cola in Atlanta. Ever try and find a painting of santa with his big white beard and red suit from, say, the Mid 1800s or ealier? THERE ARENT ANY. He's a fucking marketing campain.

And Matt is also batting 1000 with the jesus coment. If that carpenter were here today to see what you 'christians' have turned into his 'birthday' celebrations, he would disavow you all. Instantly. His teachings are about the POOR rising up from their squaller and the RICH being the shit of the earth.

With all your comercial Crusifix sales and present giving worship in his name, he would slap your faces.

It's ok to lie to your children about the defacto symbol of your messiahs birthday? You hipocrites make me want to piss on you myself.
 
ChefWide said:
Matt gets Karma. the HORROR!!! ;)

Santa? The big red suited guy? You fools, he was INVENTED by the marketing folks for Coca-Cola in Atlanta. Ever try and find a painting of santa with his big white beard and red suit from, say, the Mid 1800s or ealier? THERE ARENT ANY. He's a fucking marketing campain.

And Matt is also batting 1000 with the jesus coment. If that carpenter were here today to see what you 'christians' have turned into his 'birthday' celebrations, he would disavow you all. Instantly. His teachings are about the POOR rising up from their squaller and the RICH being the shit of the earth.

With all your comercial Crusifix sales and present giving worship in his name, he would slap your faces.

It's ok to lie to your children about the defacto symbol of your messiahs birthday? You hipocrites make me want to piss on you myself.
Click to expand...

You must be very miserable unhappy person.
 
curling said:


You must be very miserable unhappy person.
Click to expand...


What? Because I don't buy into your religious fantasies? That's pretty funny.
 
ChefWide said:



What? Because I don't buy into your religious fantasies? That's pretty funny.
Click to expand...

Are you happy? Well are you? So what do you buy into the monkey fantasy. Go have another banana.
 
Ok...let's say you don't tell your kids the story of "Santa Claus and his 8 tiny reindeer"...What are you going to tell them?

What do you say when you are shopping at the mall and 100's of children are waiting in line to see the "big guy"...or your children's friends come over to the house jabbering away about their Christmas wishes and Santa's tales...Or how do you explain the 1000's of cartoon's, commercials, TV specials, pictures, coloring books, etc of the "Jolly fat guy"...

Aren't you almost hurting your child just as much by not letting them enjoy the fairy tale and by making them different?

This is how I look at it, Santa is the American symbol of the "Spirit of Christmas"...It is up to parents to decide what the meaning of Christmas is going to be in their family... It could either be a season of just merely commerization or it can be a time when the whole family together enjoys the "gift of giving". There are so many little things families can do together throughout any community to make someone else's Christmas a little brighter...


:santa:
 
I am happy, thank you for your concern. Happily married, three strong healthy boys doing well in school, my health is at its peak, I have a very satisfying job that lets me learn as well as share my knowledge, I live in a country with true freedom of expression, where no one gets left behind regardless of their color or background or religion.... I am very happy, thank you!

Monkeys? what ARE you raving about? TRY and concentrate a little, PLEASE!?!?
 
ChefWide said:
I am happy, thank you for your concern. Happily married, three strong healthy boys doing well in school, my health is at its peak, I have a very satisfying job that lets me learn as well as share my knowledge, I live in a country with true freedom of expression, where no one gets left behind regardless of their color or background or religion.... I am very happy, thank you!

Monkeys? what ARE you raving about? TRY and concentrate a little, PLEASE!?!?
Click to expand...

What happens to you when you die? And the monkey thing was in reference to believing in evolution. That is right "believing" because it isn't a fact. But I am glad you are "earthly" happy but do you have true joy?
 
curling said:


What happens to you when you die? And the monkey thing was in reference to believing in evolution. That is right "believing" because it isn't a fact. But I am glad you are "earthly" happy but do you have true joy?
Click to expand...

I have an Auntie called Joy...
 
toga22 said:

Aren't you almost hurting your child just as much by not letting them enjoy the fairy tale and by making them different?

This is how I look at it, Santa is the American symbol of the "Spirit of Christmas"...
Click to expand...

Bingo. In America, people, even children, get hurt because MAYBE they are different. Thats one of the things that made so easy for me to leave. I use every moment possible to make this a world where being DIFFERENT is the GOOD part!

Its what makes us interesting, we learn from others that are DIFFERENT that being DIFFERENT is OK, even desirable.

Case in point. Some kids from outside of Nairobi were in a mall here the other day, and my nine year old walked right up to them to say "Hi, my name is ------, where are you from?" etc etc

Then my five year old joined in the party, in five minutes two of my kids were laughing up a storm and running around the place like kids should with a group of kids that are about as different from them as you can get.

Does that happen in your "its bad to be differnent" world?
 
curling said:


What happens to you when you die? And the monkey thing was in reference to believing in evolution. That is right "believing" because it isn't a fact. But I am glad you are "earthly" happy but do you have true joy?
Click to expand...

You know what. I am glad you found what you need. Great.

To you its a fact. To me it's less than bathwater.
 
Curling do you

Put up a christmas tree?

Decorate your house for the Christmas Season?

Buy and exchange gifts?

Go to holiday parties?
 
curling said:


You and he will only fine that out upon your death. Then sadly, it will be too late.
Click to expand...

No kidding. I love when wacky zealots overstate the obvious: WHEN YOU ARE DEAD ITS TOO LATE!?!?!?

Thanks for the 'heads up'.
 
TheLordofIron said:
Curling do you

Put up a christmas tree?

Decorate your house for the Christmas Season?

Buy and exchange gifts?

Go to holiday parties?
Click to expand...

I can safely say, I think, I that I can score 1 for the Lord of Iron here.
 
From Zero said:


I can safely say, I think, I that I can score 1 for the Lord of Iron here.
Click to expand...

Looks as though a slam dunk is in preparation....
 
ChefWide said:


Bingo. In America, people, even children, get hurt because MAYBE they are different. Thats one of the things that made so easy for me to leave. I use every moment possible to make this a world where being DIFFERENT is the GOOD part!

Its what makes us interesting, we learn from others that are DIFFERENT that being DIFFERENT is OK, even desirable.


Does that happen in your "its bad to be differnent" world?
Click to expand...

First off, it sounds like you have very wonderful children...you are very lucky. :)

Unfortunately, what you are saying is very true. That is one of the great things about kids under the age of 6... they aren't as influenced by their parents beliefs as children that are older.

What you are saying I truly do believe is a direct result of the parents...children are taught to notice differences and to see them as you say it as "undesirable". And another part of the problem, at least here in Wisconsin, is that children from different community's, in our area it is a large Hmong population, are segregrated into different classrooms, with other Hmong children. It isn't until around 3rd or 4th grade, and usually in the middle of the year, when these kids are intergrated back into the "mainstream" classes, and by that time many friendships have been already been formed, and adult opinions have begun to sunk in. Of course, not all parents or children are like this, and I honestly have to say, that since I was a child diversity is far more accepted. However, there is a long way to go...

What I meant, and probably didn't word it very well, in the "Santa" discussion..is that children may be a bit resentful towards their parents for not letting them enjoy "Santa"...it would be almost the same as not letting them go trick-or-treating, or going to the carnival and not letting them go on any rides...just making them watch the other kids.
 
TheLordofIron said:
Curling do you

Put up a christmas tree?

Decorate your house for the Christmas Season?

Buy and exchange gifts?

Go to holiday parties?
Click to expand...

Yes. to #1(man, but I hate doing it that tree wax gets all over you and the dang tree is never straight and it makes you itch.

Yes to #2(although I wish we didn't wife makes me)

Yes to #3(again wish we didn't have too wife makes me)

Yes to #4( they are fun)

While I said yes to all your questions. I don't put pictures or statues of Santa anywhere. I think it is fine to exchange gifts because it is the season of giving.
 
toga22 said:


First off, it sounds like you have very wonderful children...you are very lucky. :)

Unfortunately, what you are saying is very true. That is one of the great things about kids under the age of 6... they aren't as influenced by their parents beliefs as children that are older.

What you are saying I truly do believe is a direct result of the parents...children are taught to notice differences and to see them as you say it as "undesirable". And another part of the problem, at least here in Wisconsin, is that children from different community's, in our area it is a large Hmong population, are segregrated into different classrooms, with other Hmong children. It isn't until around 3rd or 4th grade, and usually in the middle of the year, when these kids are intergrated back into the "mainstream" classes, and by that time many friendships have been already been formed, and adult opinions have begun to sunk in. Of course, not all parents or children are like this, and I honestly have to say, that since I was a child diversity is far more accepted. However, there is a long way to go...

What I meant, and probably didn't word it very well, in the "Santa" discussion..is that children may be a bit resentful towards their parents for not letting them enjoy "Santa"...it would be almost the same as not letting them go trick-or-treating, or going to the carnival and not letting them go on any rides...just making them watch the other kids.
Click to expand...


I better understand your post, thanks for clarifying.

They dont have to just watch, but they have NEVER been told that Santa is anything other than one of the traditions of the holidays (here we have 13 different 'Santas' its even more fun!)

Why would it be necessary to LIE to kids to get them to love or even enjoy something? We lie to them about fundamental things like THEIR meaning of a holiday, then we tell them that lieing is the worst thing you can do?!?!? How does THAT work?

My kids don't have to believe that Winny the Pooh is REAL to be totally head over heels for him, why do it with Santa? The tooth fairy? any of that? On the other side of that, on halloween do they really think that mommy is a witch just because she is dressed like one, of course not!!

There are some things that I have to draw the line on: ALL religious teachings get taught in my home to exclusion of none and that includes my famous line "Some people believe in that, granny and grandpa do, lots of people all over the world do! But I don't. And thats ok for everybody as long as it gives them strength and hurts no one."

My kids get chanuka, Christmas trees, feasting at Ramadan, etc. We have passover, we have easter egg hunts, why not? Its about different versions of history, different ways to TRY and teach the good parts...

As far as i am concerned (see my sig.) there are good things, GREAT things to learn from every core religion, and very very bad things have been done with those good teachings, read any of Curlings posts about we non-believers finding something out after we die to see what I mean ;)
 
curling said:


Yes. to #1(man, but I hate doing it that tree wax gets all over you and the dang tree is never straight and it makes you itch.

Yes to #2(although I wish we didn't wife makes me)

Yes to #3(again wish we didn't have too wife makes me)

Yes to #4( they are fun)

While I said yes to all your questions. I don't put pictures or statues of Santa anywhere. I think it is fine to exchange gifts because it is the season of giving.
Click to expand...

You put a nativity scene up too?
 
I think it's important to tell kids the real meaning of Christmas and make sure that they understand that's what it is all about. But I don't see the harm in letting them be a kid too and have fanciful ideas about some man in a red suit that has reindeer and elves. Why burst their bubble and let them know that those presents are really just things that their parents ran to Wal-Mart the night before and bought? Let them be a kid and let them have some dreams.
 
PHATchik said:
I think it's important to tell kids the real meaning of Christmas and make sure that they understand that's what it is all about. But I don't see the harm in letting them be a kid too and have fanciful ideas about some man in a red suit that has reindeer and elves. Why burst their bubble and let them know that those presents are really just things that their parents ran to Wal-Mart the night before and bought? Let them be a kid and let them have some dreams.
Click to expand...


I have some of the very same dreams I had as a kid, that my parents passed to me, that they got from their parents...

That all people are created equal, the everbody should be allowed to believe what they like and that no one should force their beliefs on you, that we should take care of the earth because it takes care of us... pretty simplistic and told here in kids terms, but my beliefs structure remains near the same.

The fact that mommy and daddy love them so much that asside from everthing else, would go out and get them things that wanted all year long isn't a big deal in your house? It should be.

Ok, fine, so maybe you give them major gifts year round, thats nice. I have a suggestion for you that we follow every holiday season: my wife and I both, seperately of course, get together with our kids and help them MAKE something for the other parent.

You think playstation II games make them happy? My kids are STILL showing visitors to our house the bouquet of origami flowers that we made for my wife for last christmas. One flower from each of us to her. We even folded the 'Vase' they are in. Took all day, cost us a whole 5 bucks in parts, and I LOVED it, and she gets a new flower every christmas and birthday, thats the deal. I gave her a 150 year old mantle clock made of brazillian rosewood... what does she love THE most? goes without saying.

"LOOK WHAT WE MADE!!!" and "LOOK WHAT I GOT!!" has been going on for 11 months, and they dont even REMEMBER most of what else they got for the holidays....
 
When i found out santa wasn't real i questioned my beliefs about a lot of things.

If something i believed so strongly... that my parents and even my priest told me was true actually turned out to be a lie... it made me question what other things they were telling me that were also lies.
 
Lift Chief said:
When i found out santa wasn't real i questioned my beliefs about a lot of things.

If something i believed so strongly... that my parents and even my priest told me was true actually turned out to be a lie... it made me question what other things they were telling me that were also lies.
Click to expand...

This is what I am saying.
 
Lift Chief said:
When i found out santa wasn't real i questioned my beliefs about a lot of things.

If something i believed so strongly... that my parents and even my priest told me was true actually turned out to be a lie... it made me question what other things they were telling me that were also lies.
Click to expand...

That hits the nail into the cross... er.. hits the nail on the head... you know what I mean:

If I want my children to trust me, I must never lie to them, about anything. If I want to demand of my children that they never lie to me, I must never lie to them.

I can tell you this for sure, If I wanted my children to believe in the 'sanctity' or 'real meaning' of christmas (which is crap, it wasnt even a christian holiday until the christians adopted it from pagans on their move into europe, and the historical Jesus wasnt born anywhere near the winter solstice) I certainly wouldn't let their first experience with christmas be based on a lie!
 
1. Why do christians always assume someone is unhappy if they don't accept Christian Mythology?

2. What if the Jews, Budhists or Pagans turn out to be "right?"

People's spiritual beliefs are their own and I'll leave it at that.
 
JavaGuru said:
1. Why do christians always assume someone is unhappy if they don't accept Christian Mythology?

2. What if the Jews, Budhists or Pagans turn out to be "right?"

People's spiritual beliefs are their own and I'll leave it at that.
Click to expand...


bump'a'thon
 
curling said:


This is what I am saying.
Click to expand...

I know but it's absurd to equate santa with satan you dolt.

If nothing else christmas could be used as a way to have kids reflect on the life of Jesus and the good message he had to proclaim.

Whether or not he was the son of God, he had a very solid moral system that most would do well to try and follow.

I really think curling is wodin's or someone else's alter.
 
We lie to them in order to prepare them for the other let downs in life.

Not being able to be the star athlete on a team.

Not being a CEO of a large company

Not being able to afford the big house on the hill or the Lamborghini in the driveway.


God, these anti-depressants are awesome!
 
ChefWide said:


If I wanted my children to believe in the 'sanctity' or 'real meaning' of christmas (which is crap, it wasnt even a christian holiday until the christians adopted it from pagans on their move into europe,
Click to expand...


Romans adopted it when Constantine gave christianity state sanctioning. Christmas repalced the winter solstice festival of Saturnalia.

Jesus was born in the Spring.
 
curling said:
How do you know that Jesus was born in the spring?
Click to expand...

Because descriptions of the weather and the positioning of the stars leaves no other conclusion.
 
hey MATT,

i read about sumer and a charter in there history named i think it was addis or attis(sp)?

he was a demi god that basicly had a life that was very simular to jesus. but he lived like 6,000 years earlier

- he was a demi god
- he was a rebel in sumer (which was like the "ROME" of that time)
- he had a small following
- he was killed and nailed to a tree
- he was said to have rose from the dead afterward


have you ever heard of this legend?
 
I don't remember being traumatized when I found out there was no Santa. I don't actually remember finding it out. But I do remember when me and my brother and older cousin held our other cousin down and yelled at him that there was no Santa Claus and made him cry. Kids can be so cruel. In those sorts of situations I just say, "Curling made me do it!"
 
curling said:


REallly? Where did it decribe the weather and the stars?
Click to expand...

Where did *what* describe the stars?
 
If you are a Bible whiz that shouldn't be news to you. Most Bible scholars will tell you that the birth of Jesus was thought to be in the spring due to the travel of the wise men and the star and all that. Not to mention that it never lists the date of Jesus' birth in the Bible either. People just co-opted that date somewhere along the line. But the point is more for a celebration of the birth of Jesus, rather than pinning down a date. I went to a Bible church my whole life and they were real big on not celebrating Christmas as the actual birth of Jesus, since we have no way of knowing when that really was. It's more just a convenient time to celebrate Jesus' birth generally.

People tend to tie themselves in knots trying to prove this and that in specific terms when it comes to Biblical stories and such (i.e. Noah's ark, ten commandments and Moses, etc).

I found Joseph Campbell's Power of Myth a fascinating series on this sort of thing, the similarity of stories in major religions, many predating Christianity and Judaism for that matter. Interesting. Coincidental. Or maybe not. I really don't think there has to be only one way to get there. God doesn't seem that petty to me.
 
God doesn't seem that petty to me. [/B]
Click to expand...



Excellent viewpoint. My argument, and my ire, arrises from the sheeple that demand adherence to their flavor of god.

God thinks their assholes too.
 
ChefWide said:



Excellent viewpoint. My argument, and my ire, arrises from the sheeple that demand adherence to their flavor of god.

God thinks their assholes too.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about here? God is God there is only one & all the others are made up by Satan to decieve more people from knowing the real God.
 
TheLordofIron said:
Honestly Curling you thought that 12/25 was Jesus's actual date of Birth?
Click to expand...

No I am not saying that. I just wanted to see facts on why matt thought he was born in the spring.
 
What are you talking about here? God is God there is only one & all the others are made up by Satan to decieve more people from knowing the real God.
Click to expand...

how do you know you have the right god? Even if "god" as acknowledged by Christians, Jews and Muslims is the right one how does your christian dogma reconcile with it? Is mere belief enough or must you acknowledge Jesus Christ as the son of god to get into heaven? Which would preclude Jews even though they accept the "one true god." Not attacking your beliefs just pointing out even those who agree on the same god have vastly different and dogmatic spiritual beliefs.
 
JavaGuru said:


how do you know you have the right god? Even if "god" as acknowledged by Christians, Jews and Muslims is the right one how does your christian dogma reconcile with it? Is mere belief enough or must you acknowledge Jesus Christ as the son of god to get into heaven? Which would preclude Jews even though they accept the "one true god." Not attacking your beliefs just pointing out even those who agree on the same god have vastly different and dogmatic spiritual beliefs.
Click to expand...

The Jews will be judged on the law. And if you have ever read their law is dang hard to get to heaven that way. They(alot of the Jews will believe in Christ during the end times and there has already been alot of converted Jews already. But you are correct you have to know Christ to get to Heaven He is the only way because He was sent by the Grace of God.

All the other religions you mentioned do not have Jesus as the way to God isn't that peculiar all those other religions leave Him out.
 
curling said:


ok.
Click to expand...

The Druids and Vikings use to have holidays during the winter equinox, which is December 22nd. In order to gain followers of Christianity the early catholic church instituted Christmas or Christ Mass on December 25th to usurp the pagan holidays that were very popular and prevalent throughout Europe at the time. Many of the Gothic churches in Europe also include images of pagan symbols on there drainage systems as well to attract pagans to the church. Today we call these statues Gargoyles. I look at this as the first real marketing study by any company.
 
Marketing. Catering. Jesus was a caterer.

Who else could get a wedding full of jews to believe that water is wine? Only a GREAT caterer.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/12/04/offbeat.teacher.santa.ap/index.html
.
Sandra Jolly said her 6-year-old son's Christmas was spoiled when his teacher told the first-grade class Monday that "Santa Claus is make-believe."

"He had this sad, lost puppy dog look on his face. This unhappy, empty look," Jolly said. "He said his teacher informed the entire class that Santa is make-believe."

D.J.'s teacher, Geneta Codner, was reading a story about the Tooth Fairy when the class started discussing what was real and what was not, said district spokesman Joe Donzelli.

When the subject of Santa came up, the teacher started questioning parts of his story -- How could a fat jolly man fit down a chimney? How could reindeer fly around the world in one night? -- and told the children that wasn't possible.

"It's all been blown out of proportion," Codner said. "I'm sorry (parents) think I meant it that way. We were just having a discussion. I don't know where all this hurt came from."

The teacher said none of the children acted upset or sad during class.

But Jolly and others disagree.

"How do you destroy a 6-year-old like that?" said Pam Sturt, whose son Bradley is in D.J.'s class.

Donzelli said the school's principal "had a real stern conversation" with the teacher. But there will be no written reprimand because she did not violate any school district policy.

"We have no Santa clause," Donzelli said. "We would think that teachers would use better judgment."
 
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