Why Deca lubricate joints, but Tren or Anadrol don't?

[panerai]

I assume, that Nandrolones lubricate joints by increased water retention, because of PR binding. Then, why Trenbolone doesn't do the same, it has very high affinity to PR, and why Anadrol causes huge water retention, also because of PR binding, but don't lubricate joints?
If just simple water retention makes joints more lubricated, then why Test and dbol are not great lubricants?
Only Deca, why?

 

[Strong_Man20]

good point!! I always wondered this my self, ill bump this for you

 

[liftsiron]

I know that deca works better for my shoulders than anything else, I am also would like to know why. It can't be because of water, that's not it.

 

[Maxx Out]

All deca does for me is make my nips itchy! Doesn't help w/my joints at all... .

 

[browndog1]

I hate deca.

...bd

 

[Ulter]

I am guessing. I might as well this question has been asked for a week now and no one has answered it I don't think it is only the water that brings relief.
I think it is due to nandrolones ability to increase bone mineral density. When the bone is degenerating due to fracture, crushing, osteoporosis etc., ND reverses this condition and actually adds BMD. I would think adding thickness to the bone would make it stronger and thereby relieve the pain.

 

[liftsiron]

But why does it work to relieve soft tissue pain i.e. tendon and ligamint?

 

[GrowthPro]

***I think it might have something to do with the increased endogenous production of the jelly type lubrication substances between our joints called glucocosamine sulfate and chrondroiten, due to the Deca and other nandrolone preparations...I am not 100% sure though, just a hypothesis...-GPro

 

[inlarge]

Bump

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Here's a couple of the research study's that Ulter was alluding to...

Nandrolone decanoate for men with osteoporosis.

Hamdy RC, Moore SW, Whalen KE, Landy C

James H. Quillen College of Medicine, East Tennessee State University, Johnson City, TN USA.

To compare the efficacy and safety of nandrolone decanoate and calcium (NDC) with those of calcium alone (CAL) in men with idiopathic osteoporosis, a 12-month, randomized, prospective, controlled study, was performed in an outpatient clinic. Twenty-one men with idiopathic osteoporosis (as determined by radiological and dual energy x-ray absorptiometry findings) were randomly allocated to either 50 mg nandrolone decanoate intramuscularly (im) weekly and 1,000 mg oral calcium carbonate daily (NDC group) or to 1,000 mg oral calcium carbonate daily (CAL group). Bone densitometry (total body, left femur, and lumbar spine), serum, and urine biochemical parameters were measured at 3-month intervals. In the NDC group, bone mineral density initially increased, reached a plateau, and then decreased to near baseline levels at 12 months. Increases in lean muscle mass mirrored these changes. Free and total testosterone significantly decreased. Hemoglobin increased in all patients in this group. Patients in the CAL group exhibited no significant change in either total body or bone mineral density or biochemical parameters. Thus, nandrolone decanoate, 50 mg im weekly, transiently increases the bone mass of men with idiopathic osteoporosis in this preliminary study. Careful monitoring is necessary.

Publication Types:
Clinical trial
Randomized controlled trial

PMID: 10099043, UI: 20091252

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Nandrolone decanoate: pharmacological properties and therapeutic use in osteoporosis.

Geusens P

Arthritis and Metabolic Bone Disease Research Unit, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Pellenberg, Belgium.

The therapeutic profile on bone of nandrolone decanoate is that of inhibitor of bone resorption with temporary increase in bone formation, followed by an absence of suppression of bone formation, indicating uncoupling of bone resorption and formation. This results is an increase in bone mineral content at the proximal and distal radius, and in some patients at the lumbar spine. Furthermore, nandrolone decanoate increases calcium balance and muscle mass, diminishes vertebral pain and increases the mobility of the spine.
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Long-term effect of nandrolone decanoate, 1 alpha-hydroxyvitamin D3 or intermittent calcium infusion therapy on bone mineral content, bone remodeling and fracture rate in symptomatic osteoporosis: a double-blind controlled study.

Geusens P, Dequeker J

Department of Internal Medicine, K.U. Leuven, Pellenberg, Belgium.

A double-blind controlled study was performed in 60 patients with symptomatic osteoporosis with at least one vertebral crush fracture, comparing the effect of nandrolone decanoate, 1 alpha-hydroxyvitamin D3 and intermittent calcium infusions. Thirty-four out of 60 patients completed the 2 year observation period. Nandrolone decanoate statistically significantly increased the bone mineral content at the radius, reduced the endosteal bone loss at the metacarpals and statistically significantly reduced urinary calcium and hydroxyproline excretion. Calcium infusions and 1 alpha-hydroxyvitamin D3 inhibited further loss of bone mineral content, but endosteal bone loss continued. In the second year fracture rate was reduced in the nandrolone decanoate groups compared to the two other groups. We conclude that nandrolone decanoate is an active drug for increasing bone mineral content and reducing endosteal bone loss, while 1 alpha-hydroxyvitamin D3 and calcium infusions only stop further bone mineral loss at the radius but do not inhibit endosteal bone loss as measured at the metacarpals and that single photon absorptiometry and radiography are complementary in interpreting cortical bone mineral changes.

Publication Types:
Clinical trial
Controlled clinical trial

 

[B182]

About tren having PR mediated activity...according to Bill roberts, there is NOTHING in scientific literature stating this, and he says he is sure it does not have PR activity. Anecdotal reports of users using injectible tren supports this... however, in those using topically applied tren, he does know of people experiencing symptoms of PR mediated activity, and he hypothesizes that tren does get metabolised into a PR binding metabolite through enzymes in the skin. I'd have to agree with him... since I've never experienced symptoms of PR activity from tren, and every other tren user I know of using injectible tren.

 

[panerai]

B182, check this study....

Characterisation of the affinity of different anabolics and synthetic hormones to the human androgen receptor, human sex hormone binding globulin and to the bovine progestin receptor.

APMIS 2000 Dec;108(12):838-46 (ISSN: 0903-4641)

Bauer ER; Daxenberger A; Petri T; Sauerwein H; Meyer HH [Find other articles with these Authors]
Institut fur Physiologie, Research Center for Milk and Food Weihenstephan, Technical University Munich, Germany.

For the steroidal growth promoters trenbolone acetate (TBA) and melengestrol acetate (MGA) neither the complete spectrum of biological activities nor the potential endocrine disrupting activity of their excreted metabolites in the environment is fully understood. The potency of these substances in [3H]dihydrotestosterone ([3H]-DHT) displacement from the recombinant human androgen receptor (rhAR) and from human sex-hormone binding globulin (hSHBG) was evaluated. In addition, the potency for [3H]-ORG2058 displacement from the bovine uterine progestin receptor (bPR) was tested. For comparison, different anabolics and synthetic hormones were also tested for their binding affinities. For 17beta-trenbolone (17beta-TbOH), the active compound after TBA administration, an affinity the rhAR similar to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and a slightly higher affinity to the bPR than progesterone were demonstrated. The affinity of the two major metabolites, 17alpha-trenbolone and trendione, was reduced to less than 5% of the 17beta-TbOH-value. The affinity of these three compounds and of MGA to the hSHBG was much lower compared with DHT. MGA showed a 5.3-fold higher affinity than progesterone to the bPR but only a weak affinity to the rhAR. The major MGA metabolites have an affinity to the bPR between 85% and 28% of the affinity of progesterone. In consequence, MGA and TBA metabolites may be hormonally active substances, which will be present in edible tissues and in manure. We conclude that detailed investigations on biodegradation, distribution and bio-efficacy of these substances are necessary.

 

[inlarge]

good info!

Good info guys! I recently dislocated my shoulder and ordered some deca/winny to rehab it. Ima Glad to see I made the right choice. AS always thank you my brothers. I will Exceed my limitations with help of my friends
INLARGE

 

[Zyglamail]

Great post panerai, I was just about to paste that same exact study in regards to the comment made by B182 and "Bill Roberts".

 

[B182]

Interesting post panerai... I have a couple ideas, but let me first run this one by bill, and I'll get back to ya =)

 

[panerai]

Don't take Bill's words as God spoken, he makes plenty of mistakes also. Never answer my e-mails, hehe...may be can't answer the questions,lol!

 

[panerai]

Searched Archives and found someone mentioning that Deca increases blood flow to the joints, and that's causes lubrication. I don't know....
I can't believe that nobody knows exact answer. Everyone knows that Deca is great for joints, but no one ever asked himself, why?

 

[nstruzik]

Increases in collagen synthesis and other bone matrix markers has been seen in the regeneration of bone in the presence of nandrolones. Increases in fibroblast collagen production has also been associated with nandrolones. Nandrolones have also been associated with reduction of inflammatory cytokines seen in aging. Much of the internet lore or conjecture relating nandrolones with joint support has probably been extrapolated from the literature of positive effects of nandrolones on bone density and antiinflammatory activity. There is no data in the literature relating the extreme dose patterns used by BBers and other weight training enthusiasts to positive effects in joint tissues. i would be most inclined to believe that the hormone signaling pathways are so skewed under extreme dosage patterns that normal joint metabolism would be compromised especially after long term use.

Aerssens, J., R. Van Audekercke, et al. (1993). "Mechanical properties, bone mineral content, and bone composition (collagen, osteocalcin, IGF-I) of the rat femur: influence of ovariectomy and nandrolone decanoate (anabolic steroid) treatment." Calcif Tissue Int 53(4): 269-277.

Cen, Y., N. Liu, et al. (2004). "[Effects of nandrolone phenylpropionate on fibroblasts after injury in rats]." Sichuan Da Xue Xue Bao Yi Xue Ban 35(4): 508-511.

Thompson, R. W., J. M. McClung, et al. (2006). "Modulation of overload-induced inflammation by aging and anabolic steroid administration." Exp Gerontol 41(11): 1136-1148.