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Who trains to failure?

right now I am doing 1 set to basically failure then another set that is not close to failure. Doing this couple times a week. Its working out good
 
I try not to train to failure anymore, but that's because I'm a powerlifter and not a bodybuilder.

I think I remember reading an article by Hatfield where he said that it's very bad (for powerlifters) to go to failure, because then you're training your body to fail. Interesting.
 
Chris Benoit said:
I just wanted to know who here trains to failure or not, and if you do do you train every set of every exercise to failure?
Click to expand...

For the purposes of my response, I'll assume by "train," you mean lifting I undertake with the expressed intention of making myself bigger and stronger.

Though I'm lifting sub-failure and with lighter poundages at the moment, I don't consider that training. Just a semantic quirk of mine, you could say.

So yes, I DO train every set of every exercise to failure. As a rule I only do one work set and usually one exercise/bodypart, though...that's different than doing 16 sets for biceps all to failure, eh? :)
 
At the moment I don't, but that's because I'm trying something new, just for grins.

Previously, yes. One or 2 sets to failure per body part. Sometimes I have another one rep left in me, but I sometimes stop, just to make sure I dont break form.

So this "almost to failure" I usually, do may be similar to how revex trains.
 
slobberknocker said:
I think I remember reading an article by Hatfield where he said that it's very bad (for powerlifters) to go to failure, because then you're training your body to fail. Interesting.
Click to expand...
I used to PL and I think that is one of the dumbest things I've heard. It would have made more sense to say that quitting early is teaching youself to quit! You should believe you are capable of another rep. If you don't make it, big deal. I'm not saying PLers should train to failure. I always cycled myself. I'm just saying that sometimes it happens, and you shouldn't be thinking "oh no, I don't think I can get another rep" in the middle of a set, and put it away out of fear of failing.

Traps
 
I do 1 work set to failure and think it works great. I have done periodization as well as WSB and got the best gains on DC(to failure) and WSB. I just do DC now bc of my goals but WSB is a no joke training program.
 
Failure?

What do mean by "failure"? A break down in form, concentric failure, rep speed decreasing, eccentric failure?

I periodize my training. Often I don't go to failure, as like bigguns, training is % based. However, sometimes we do experiment.
 
MrTrap said:

I used to PL and I think that is one of the dumbest things I've heard. It would have made more sense to say that quitting early is teaching youself to quit! You should believe you are capable of another rep. If you don't make it, big deal. I'm not saying PLers should train to failure. I always cycled myself. I'm just saying that sometimes it happens, and you shouldn't be thinking "oh no, I don't think I can get another rep" in the middle of a set, and put it away out of fear of failing.

Traps
Click to expand...

That's not what it's about. It's not so much the mental perception, but the neural effect.
 
Imakarum_Mirabilis said:


That's not what it's about. It's not so much the mental perception, but the neural effect.
Click to expand...
You can't separate them. Watch somebody fail in a lift and odds are good in most cases you will see the failure before it happens. Including at PL meets.

Even if he meant neural effect, avoiding failure would have you thinking about it in the middle of a set. That's just dumb.

And if he meant neural effect, he should explain it. Where can we read about this? If there really was such an effect, you'd think the anti-HIT brigade would be referencing it every chance they got.
 
MrTrap said:

You can't separate them. Watch somebody fail in a lift and odds are good in most cases you will see the failure before it happens. Including at PL meets.
Click to expand...

That might be the case for a first time lifter or your local meets, but it's not the case with an experienced veteran. I've seen lifters get lifts that I thought were impossible and they gutted them out anyway.

Not trying to provoke an argument. I'm headed out of town! :D
 
MrTrap said:

I used to PL and I think that is one of the dumbest things I've heard. It would have made more sense to say that quitting early is teaching youself to quit! You should believe you are capable of another rep. If you don't make it, big deal. I'm not saying PLers should train to failure. I always cycled myself. I'm just saying that sometimes it happens, and you shouldn't be thinking "oh no, I don't think I can get another rep" in the middle of a set, and put it away out of fear of failing.

Traps
Click to expand...

You wouldn't happen to be James "Traps" Ayers would you? :)

Seriously though, I think we have to be careful in how we interpret what Dr. Squat meant by that remark.

Personally, I took it to mean something like this...

In lifting, powerlifting in particular, you can gain without training to failure, right?

I might like failure training a lot myself, but I readily admit that you can achieve progressive overload without it. And failure is often thought to be very hard on the CNS. There are ways around that in a bodybuilding routine (DC, cycling exercises and periods of hard training with light stuff), but in powerlifting, training to failure on the same exercises again and again would quickly lead to CNS burn-out, depending on the specifics of the routine of course.

Therefore, in a sense, training to failure IS "training to fail"--fail is in failing to progress--because you'll burn out too quickly doing it.

IF that's what Dr. Squat meant, I agree with him. We really need a context for that quote to say either way, though I do suspect your interpretation is probably closer to what he meant.

I agree with you in that case...some failure training isn't going to make someone magically weaker than they should be.
It'd take a lot to measurably derail your strength.
 
pwr_machine said:


That might be the case for a first time lifter or your local meets, but it's not the case with an experienced veteran. I've seen lifters get lifts that I thought were impossible and they gutted them out anyway.

Not trying to provoke an argument. I'm headed out of town! :D
Click to expand...
Actually you are talking about something different. Trying that near impossible rep and believing you will get it is something that separates the experienced lifter, true. That's the kind of attitude you gotta have. But I've watched veterans effectively give up mid-rep. That's what I'm talking about. Lifts they could have gutted out. You've seen it too. You've seen lifters miss a lift (failure!) then come back and make it on the next attempt. Some of those are because they were out of the groove, but some are psychological. Watch enough and you can predict them mid-rep.
 
MrTrap said:

And if he meant neural effect, he should explain it. Where can we read about this? If there really was such an effect, you'd think the anti-HIT brigade would be referencing it every chance they got.
Click to expand...

I've actually seen anti-HIT people say such things. I believe Christian Thibaudeau referenced something along these lines at "T Mag." I could be wrong, though...I'm sure resident powerlifting goddess Lady Spatts could cite something along these lines.

I really like Spatts.

My digressions notwithstanding if, in the unlikely event that Dr. Squat meant "mental failure," I also think that's ridiculous. IMO, training to failure is the only sure-fire way to know your limits, outside of 1 RMs of course; and if anything, that PREVENTS you from failing to hit your weights at a meet...there's no subjectivism involved.

Knowing we're one rep shy or so is close enough to keep gaining and to have a good idea of where you stand, but there's still that little bit of imprecision. A few lbs. here and there win contests, so that'd be imprecision I wouldn't feel comfortable with.
 
It makes no sense for powerlifters to train to failure. Failure training inhibits voluntary strength by messing with EC coupling and inhibiting a motor unit's ability to fire. Why would you want to do something that would make you weaker?
 
MrTrap said:

You can't separate them. Watch somebody fail in a lift and odds are good in most cases you will see the failure before it happens. Including at PL meets.

Even if he meant neural effect, avoiding failure would have you thinking about it in the middle of a set. That's just dumb.

And if he meant neural effect, he should explain it. Where can we read about this? If there really was such an effect, you'd think the anti-HIT brigade would be referencing it every chance they got.
Click to expand...

Whatever you say, then.
 
I don't try to train to failure. Often, when I go up in the weight, my last rep is the last one I can do with good form. But I don't go past that.
 
i dont train to failure that much. every once in a while i will try to break a high rep record of mine on some movement like bench with 225lbs, or rolling extensions with the 100lb DBS. stuff like that. but even still, its once a month if that.
 
used to but i stoped recently. Relized that i am gaining too much size in relation to strength. since i made the switch i have made some strength gains with not even one extra pound of body weight.:D

I know that i will eventuly start getting bigger again but not as much as i would training to failure.
 
Tiervexx said:
used to but i stoped recently. Relized that i am gaining too much size in relation to strength. since i made the switch i have made some strength gains with not even one extra pound of body weight.:D

I know that i will eventuly start getting bigger again but not as much as i would training to failure.
Click to expand...



Wow see that's really interesting, because I noticed the same thing. Since I stopped training to failure, my strength keeps going up, but weight seems to be about the same.
 
Tiervexx said:
used to but i stoped recently. Relized that i am gaining too much size in relation to strength. since i made the switch i have made some strength gains with not even one extra pound of body weight.:D

I know that i will eventuly start getting bigger again but not as much as i would training to failure.
Click to expand...


OK, NOW I`m confused. I`m ready to do the HST next week and the philosophy is never go to failure. So how does that make sense? I want size I`m not really concerned with strength in relation to the size at this point. Somethings not right here.

btw I used to go to failure on most sets, but I only did around 2.
 
gonelifting said:



CCJ, I just looked at your vid. If you would have pushed and got another rep on that squat and then maybe a slow negative or even another rep attempt, Would that have been better for hypertrophy?

I know that`s not YOUR goal, but I just want to to clear things up.
Click to expand...

Yeah it would with a very slow negative. But the volume needed wouldn't be enough though you'd need to do a few more.
So if I had done 15 singles with this weight, rather than going to failure for 3 reps with a long negative, you'd get more hypertrophy.

But I was just going for a new 2 or 3 rep PR up from 295x2 3months before.
I wouldn't have got that 3rd rep, I pushed as hard as I could coming up from the buttom, and once it slows down I have no hope of grinding it up. I have a massive sticking point right where I stopped :)
 
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