Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I am contemplating a career change and am curious about the IT field. What exactly does it take? Degree and or certifications? I know the market has been in a slump for sometime now but would like to jump on this band wagon when it opens back up. I was thinking along the lines of becoming a programmer of network guy. Any advice?
Who here wrrks in the IT field?
- Thread starter MFMan
- Start date
the nature boy
New member
me. it a pretty rough market. it was all good during the internet boom but that's done. the tech sector will blow until some killer new discovery or technology come around. Until then, stay away.
circusgirl
New member
IT has one thing in common with being a vet (as in animal doctor). There's plenty of jobs out there but a lot of the work is shitty. (although not literally in the IT world!).
I would advise getting a good degree in computer science. Some of the universities have scholarships for older "professional" students. I am currently jumping ship from an academic job into the world of c++ programming and experience really helps, if you can get any, even unpaid, before leaving your current job...
Can you take leave of abscence from your current work every so often? How about getting a short internship with an IT company? Get them to train you in return for working for less than the usual salary...
dunno exactly how it works in the US.
I would advise getting a good degree in computer science. Some of the universities have scholarships for older "professional" students. I am currently jumping ship from an academic job into the world of c++ programming and experience really helps, if you can get any, even unpaid, before leaving your current job...
Can you take leave of abscence from your current work every so often? How about getting a short internship with an IT company? Get them to train you in return for working for less than the usual salary...
dunno exactly how it works in the US.
TheProject
New member
IMHO, a degree is more valuable than certifications, but this will vary from company to company. I interviewed a BUNCH of people the last time I was hiring, and the majority had gone through the quickie training courses or pursued certifications on their own, and lacked the experience to do the job I was hiring for.
I always tell people to start at the bottom and work your way up. Get some training, and then get a contract help desk job, and work your way up.
I always tell people to start at the bottom and work your way up. Get some training, and then get a contract help desk job, and work your way up.
Thanks for the advice guys. I figured experience was the most important factor. Different avenues to consider when pursuing this career. Circusgirl, is that what you are doing is some kind of internship to get into c++? Where did most of you start when you started out? Do you have degrees, certs, etc.....
Swoleyoley
New member
ewww me me me...pik me!!!
i still dont see why people still associate programming with IT
i still dont see why people still associate programming with IT
huntmaster
New member
I just got my degree in CIS and am still looking for a job in the metroplex(DFW). Whoever said that there are plenty of jobs is not 'in the know' on the current situation. The hardest part is getting started. I am currently trying like hell to get on at Lockheed Martin--we will see what happens. I had an offer @ Wal Mart's corporate hqtrs to be a mainframe COBOL programmer, but I turned it down b/c my little family needs me to remain close--I got my degree at a four year university here in Texas. I would recommend going to a devry type learning environment instead of investing 5 years. Good Luck
C
Code
Guest
Without a degree you'll spend about 6 years as a Tape Ape before getting serious cash.
Been doing this for 11 years. I only hire people who only have certs (no degree) for remedial work. I've found in the past that these folks cannot (or do not) document their work, they can't create a project plan and budget for their ideas and have very little forward viewpoints.
If you're going to only get certs, then do yourself a HUGE favor and take a lot of courses in project management.
Been doing this for 11 years. I only hire people who only have certs (no degree) for remedial work. I've found in the past that these folks cannot (or do not) document their work, they can't create a project plan and budget for their ideas and have very little forward viewpoints.
If you're going to only get certs, then do yourself a HUGE favor and take a lot of courses in project management.
the nature boy
New member
COBOL? 
huntmaster
New member
If COBOL is what I have to do to get started---I am more than willing to do so. I have never had a problem with starting out taking my lumps and working up. I would like to do DB work eventually though. Your right though, COBOL does suck.
C
Code
Guest
COBOL??
Let me save you the time, COBOL won't be worth your time.
If you want to be in actual IT. Learn networking, perl, java, CGI, CRM and SAP systems, Exchange, SendMail, Lotus Notes....this list is huge.
Take my advice, if you're young, go to college. Study Management Information Systems.
Save your money and don't go to DeVry or ITT. The job market is WAAAAAYYY to tight to try to get a job on certs alone.
Let me save you the time, COBOL won't be worth your time.
If you want to be in actual IT. Learn networking, perl, java, CGI, CRM and SAP systems, Exchange, SendMail, Lotus Notes....this list is huge.
Take my advice, if you're young, go to college. Study Management Information Systems.
Save your money and don't go to DeVry or ITT. The job market is WAAAAAYYY to tight to try to get a job on certs alone.
huntmaster
New member
well, I just graduated from a Small university in texas that is part of the Texas A & M system---and with the way the market is now, if you get an offer and it is in an area where you dont mind movig to, you better jump on it--COBOL or not. b/c once you get in with a company and they see your work ethic, it is pretty easy to move around and pick up the skills that count for something. When you are entry level, you have to take what you can get. If you can do an internship during the summer after your Junior year---do it. It will help your chances greatly.
I think its all a matter of how talented you are and what skills you have. I for one have been working part time at a large television network since I was a fros, in HIGH SCHOOL--making about 40k/year working only on weekends.
When I graduated High School, the same company offerend me a full time management position for 95k/yr- I turned it down, opting to continue working weekends while I go through college.
Some people will simply brush you off if you dont have a degree- but I say FUCK THEM! Its all about what skills that you have, and if you can prove on your interview that you have what it takes, a piece of paper is meaningless.
I know many people who are walkign around with CS degrees, and dont know the difference between Token Ring and Ethernet...
just my 2 cents.
Oh, and if you are in the right areas GOOD IT jobs are still hot, IF you are qualified. I live in NJ and work in NYC, and I constantly get job offers....once you build up a few connections, you will more or less be set for life.
Bern
When I graduated High School, the same company offerend me a full time management position for 95k/yr- I turned it down, opting to continue working weekends while I go through college.
Some people will simply brush you off if you dont have a degree- but I say FUCK THEM! Its all about what skills that you have, and if you can prove on your interview that you have what it takes, a piece of paper is meaningless.
I know many people who are walkign around with CS degrees, and dont know the difference between Token Ring and Ethernet...
just my 2 cents.
Oh, and if you are in the right areas GOOD IT jobs are still hot, IF you are qualified. I live in NJ and work in NYC, and I constantly get job offers....once you build up a few connections, you will more or less be set for life.
Bern
huntmaster
New member
builtbc83 said:
getting that interview is where it is at for me right now. I am not in NY.
The company that I have worked for through college is in big contract talks with the Teamsters, and all of their IT is in Jersey and Louiville. After August 1st, when the contract is settled --- I will probably recieve an offer, b/c I have allready interviewed and had a very positive interview. However, for me a timely, positive contract is key. The longer we go without a contract the more customers we lose.
circusgirl
New member
okie,
I got into IT because I was a geek programming kid. I did a degree in comp sci and french from an irish university, and then did a phd in the UK (not saying where, that will identify me).
I've decided I don't wanna be a tenure-track slave. As the money for being a corporate slave is better hahah. Seriously, I prefer programming/organising.doing stuff to pontificating on experiments and writing papers.
I did several internships. Basically, in degree/courses you will do programming, but real experience is in the industry, where you elarn all the nice subtle ways in which c++ can shoot you in the foot and fuck you over... argh... learn java, it does its own memory management....
My first intership was with Digital Equipment Corp, they no longer exist, anyway, they gave me bits of stuff to do that the others in the group thought were too boring/basic for them, and they weren't too easy/basic for me. C and C++. Also let me program away to my heart's content outside office hours doing a pet project. Yes, I like programming, I am a GEEK.... Also some Fortran. Don't learn Fortran unless you are planning on specialising in the maths/science field.
Next internship was a bit different as I was in France and I got paid lots more to translate and localise stuff than to program, so I did that. I had a hottie French boyfriend at the time so staying in France was a priority.
After that, I got offered various c++ hacking jobs at my uni, because the prof who supervised my dissertation had lots of industrial type projects going, and the academics need a hacker who doesn't mind working in a uni (not much in the way of promotional prospects there). I did this coz I was waiting for my phd funding to come through, which took a year.
I've been doing various c and perl hacking stuff at my current place of work, BUT the programming/project organisation bit is over now and writing papers is looming on the horizon so a REAL JOB is actually on the cards (as in, maybe even seeing the customer once in a while!).
I would suggest getting a good degree if you can. It will give you basic programming skills which will save you time when you go to write code in the real world - NOTHING sucks more than code written by someone who doesn't know how to indent, lay things out, and avoid the use of GOTO-type statements, urk....
...."fred" is not a good variable name....
Another option, get some certificates. Then start doing a night degree, working your way up from help desk drone to programmer within various companies. Difficult, and long, but worth it....
Re outsourcing to the 3rd world, a lot of the grads out there are not as marketable as people say ebcause their uni's have outdated equipment. cf - eastern europe, produce the world's best mathematicians, coz they have kick ass education, but their technical education sucks, lack of resources.
Best unis in the US are Berkeley (imho best it dept on the planet), JHU (surprisingly), UPenn, Cornell, Ohio (also surprisingly).
circusgirl
I got into IT because I was a geek programming kid. I did a degree in comp sci and french from an irish university, and then did a phd in the UK (not saying where, that will identify me).
I've decided I don't wanna be a tenure-track slave. As the money for being a corporate slave is better hahah. Seriously, I prefer programming/organising.doing stuff to pontificating on experiments and writing papers.
I did several internships. Basically, in degree/courses you will do programming, but real experience is in the industry, where you elarn all the nice subtle ways in which c++ can shoot you in the foot and fuck you over... argh... learn java, it does its own memory management....
My first intership was with Digital Equipment Corp, they no longer exist, anyway, they gave me bits of stuff to do that the others in the group thought were too boring/basic for them, and they weren't too easy/basic for me. C and C++. Also let me program away to my heart's content outside office hours doing a pet project. Yes, I like programming, I am a GEEK.... Also some Fortran. Don't learn Fortran unless you are planning on specialising in the maths/science field.
Next internship was a bit different as I was in France and I got paid lots more to translate and localise stuff than to program, so I did that. I had a hottie French boyfriend at the time so staying in France was a priority.
After that, I got offered various c++ hacking jobs at my uni, because the prof who supervised my dissertation had lots of industrial type projects going, and the academics need a hacker who doesn't mind working in a uni (not much in the way of promotional prospects there). I did this coz I was waiting for my phd funding to come through, which took a year.
I've been doing various c and perl hacking stuff at my current place of work, BUT the programming/project organisation bit is over now and writing papers is looming on the horizon so a REAL JOB is actually on the cards (as in, maybe even seeing the customer once in a while!).
I would suggest getting a good degree if you can. It will give you basic programming skills which will save you time when you go to write code in the real world - NOTHING sucks more than code written by someone who doesn't know how to indent, lay things out, and avoid the use of GOTO-type statements, urk....
...."fred" is not a good variable name....
Another option, get some certificates. Then start doing a night degree, working your way up from help desk drone to programmer within various companies. Difficult, and long, but worth it....
Re outsourcing to the 3rd world, a lot of the grads out there are not as marketable as people say ebcause their uni's have outdated equipment. cf - eastern europe, produce the world's best mathematicians, coz they have kick ass education, but their technical education sucks, lack of resources.
Best unis in the US are Berkeley (imho best it dept on the planet), JHU (surprisingly), UPenn, Cornell, Ohio (also surprisingly).
circusgirl
C
Code
Guest
Umm, Berkeley is a joke.
Try this:
MIT
CalPoly
BU
Stanford
Then Maybe Berkeley
BTW, how would saying which university you got your PhD from reveal you?
What did you write for your Master's Disertation? What was your Doctorate Thesis on?
What field of CS did discipline in??
Try this:
MIT
CalPoly
BU
Stanford
Then Maybe Berkeley
BTW, how would saying which university you got your PhD from reveal you?
What did you write for your Master's Disertation? What was your Doctorate Thesis on?
What field of CS did discipline in??
C
Code
Guest
Berkeley has been riding on the coat-tails of BSD for about 15 years. Nothing new has come out of Berkeley, nothing of substance has been published by the staff there for a LONNG time.
Pineapple Devil
New member
Programming has like the highest suicide rate as to any other job. There are alot of places around that IT depts are laying off people b/c there are so many people involved in it. IMO, i'd choose another profession
IT is not all that its cut out to be. I've been working in the IT industry for 3 years with no certs/qualifications yet I can outdo people with several certs/degrees/etc. Eventually I grew to hate it and my goals of becoming a CCIE/Network Security Consultant vanished. Instead I'm going to University now for Engineering because I've had it with how repetitive IT can become.
C
Code
Guest
chemist said:
3 years? 3 years is *not* enough time to form an opinion of a field as vast as IT.
As far as "outdoing" others, you must have worked in a vacuum of talent.
The IT work is only repetative if you fall into a reactive slump, hwere you just sit around and wait for things to break.
On the average, 15 RFCs get published or revised each week. How on Earth can you repeat your work so often if you are seriously staying on top of the industry?
Take the advice of a veteran. Get a degree, forego paying for certs on your own. Most employers will pay for courses deemed valid for your specific duties.
circusgirl
New member
BTW it's farming that has the highest suicide rate. Not programming. Working alone is a risk factor for depression and plenty of asty dangerous shit to top yourself with around the place on a farm... Anyway Code I sent you a PM with the info you requested. The UK is a small place with only a few top schools, and there are not many weight-lifting females in computer science departments.... hence why I don't want to say which school on here, wouldmake it easy to track me down.
I may be paranoid, but I have no idea who posts here, and like I said, the UK is a small place.
circusgirl
I may be paranoid, but I have no idea who posts here, and like I said, the UK is a small place.
circusgirl
clusterfoxtrot
New member
COBOL! The gateway to JCL, CICS, Assembler, and many other "advanced" languages! Actually there are more lines of COBOL written than all other languages combined. It's shitty work though - most of it will be in processing huge databases (i.e. subscriptions, billing records, etc.)
Hot languages: Visual Basic (VB), C++, Unix/Linux, Java, etc.
There are many types of "IT":
-PRogramming at myriad of levels
-Network design and integration
-Database management
-Hardware design
-Telecommunications
-And about 12 other flavors
If you can get security clearances and know C++ and Unix, you have a job for life!
CF
Hot languages: Visual Basic (VB), C++, Unix/Linux, Java, etc.
There are many types of "IT":
-PRogramming at myriad of levels
-Network design and integration
-Database management
-Hardware design
-Telecommunications
-And about 12 other flavors
If you can get security clearances and know C++ and Unix, you have a job for life!
CF
Similar threads
- Sticky
