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Which PCT for this cycle? #1 or #2?

thebadguy54

thebadguy54

New member
My cycle will be:
week 1-15 - 500 mg Test E / week
week 1-13 - 500 mg EQ / week

Which PCT do you guys like better for this cycle?

OPTION #1
3 weeks after last test injection:
week 18 - 5000 i.u. hcg /week (5000 i.u. taken in one shot!) & 100mg clomid/day
week 19 - 5000 i.u. hcg /week (5000 i.u. split into 3 shots) & 50mg clomid/day

or

OPTION #2
day after last test shot:
500 i.u. of HCG ED for 10 days
7 days after last shot of HCG:
50 mg Clomid ED for 21 days

Also not sure which is better to take during weeks 1-15... Nolva, Adex or AIFM? Let me know your opinions please.
 
HCG with 1 mg Adex the day after the last Inject of Test 2000 IUS of HCG every 4 days for 3-4 shots

17 days after last Shot of Test
Run Adex at 1 mg per day with 50 mgs of Clomid
run them for 4 weeks

Possibly look into Dermacrine as well

Blood Tests after
 
thebadguy54 said:
My cycle will be:
week 1-15 - 500 mg Test E / week
week 1-13 - 500 mg EQ / week

Which PCT do you guys like better for this cycle?

OPTION #1
3 weeks after last test injection:
week 18 - 5000 i.u. hcg /week (5000 i.u. taken in one shot!) & 100mg clomid/day
week 19 - 5000 i.u. hcg /week (5000 i.u. split into 3 shots) & 50mg clomid/day

or

OPTION #2
day after last test shot:
500 i.u. of HCG ED for 10 days
7 days after last shot of HCG:
50 mg Clomid ED for 21 days

Also not sure which is better to take during weeks 1-15... Nolva, Adex or AIFM? Let me know your opinions please.
Click to expand...

14 weeks to get full effect of EQ. adex for AI. i would choose PCT option 2 with 28 days clomid. 5000iu in one shot cant be good for you
 
Option #2 is better.
Make sure you run your AI while you're running HCG and for 3-5 days after.
Use either Adex or AIFM for your AI.
You might have to run the Clomid a little longer.

Option #3 would be to run the HCG during cycle, 250-500iu per week. Then when you're done with the cycle, you can hop onto clomid shortly after.
 
njmuscleguy said:
Option #2 is better.
Make sure you run your AI while you're running HCG and for 3-5 days after.
Use either Adex or AIFM for your AI.
You might have to run the Clomid a little longer.

Option #3 would be to run the HCG during cycle, 250-500iu per week. Then when you're done with the cycle, you can hop onto clomid shortly after.
Click to expand...


this would be a good option
 
to short on the eq bump it up to 14-16 weeks.use 500ui's hcg ew threw the hole cycle then do pct starting 2 weeks after last shot of eq..I like to use dermacrin sustain but you can use toxic clomid if you like.
 
needtogetaas said:
to short on the eq bump it up to 14-16 weeks.use 500ui's hcg ew threw the hole cycle then do pct starting 2 weeks after last shot of eq..I like to use dermacrin sustain but you can use toxic clomid if you like.
Click to expand...

I was going to recommend Sustain in place of clomid, but someone recently accused me of trying to sell something *grin*
 
njmuscleguy said:
I was going to recommend Sustain in place of clomid, but someone recently accused me of trying to sell something *grin*
Click to expand...
lmao I love when they say that shit.there just ulter and mac drons thats all.
 
njmuscleguy said:
I was going to recommend Sustain in place of clomid, but someone recently accused me of trying to sell something *grin*
Click to expand...
so when you recommend clomid dos that mean you sell clomid.lol to funny.
 
All, thanks for your input.

I find it interesting that nobody likes option #1. An IFBB pro (who is a very experienced gear user) told me to do it that way. I didn't make that sh*t up, I swear.

Anyway, I guess I'm leaning towards #2. I'd rather not run it during (option #3)... it just doesn't make sense (to me) to do it that way. But then again, what the hell do I know?
 
Primordial Performance said:
Yes, HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during the cycle. No need to use it after.

-Pp
Click to expand...

Maybe I should leave the HCG out completely? I just don't see why anyone would run it during.
 
thebadguy54 said:
All, thanks for your input.

I find it interesting that nobody likes option #1. An IFBB pro (who is a very experienced gear user) told me to do it that way. I didn't make that sh*t up, I swear.

Anyway, I guess I'm leaning towards #2. I'd rather not run it during (option #3)... it just doesn't make sense (to me) to do it that way. But then again, what the hell do I know?
Click to expand...
well for most 100mg ed of clomid would kill them.not really but its way to much.
 
Post Cycle may be the ideal time to use HCG. There is ample evidence that during post-cycle anabolic steroid induced transient hypogonadism the testicles are actually "primed" to use HCG and increase test levels without increasing estrogen levels.

(This doesn't mean that it's not useful on a cycle, but I really think it's very useful for PCT)

Here's a study:

J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Jul;25(1):109-12.
Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic gonadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes.

Martikainen H, Alén M, Rahkila P, Vihko R.
Serum concentrations of testosterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estradiol and several other unconjugated and sulphated steroids were analyzed before and after a single dose of hCG in 6 power athletes, who had used high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids for 3 months. The study was carried out 3 weeks after cessation of drug use, but the study subjects were still characterized by hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. The mean concentrations of serum LH and FSH were 2.6 +/- 0.3 and 1.1 +/- 0.03 mIU/ml (mean +/- SEM), respectively, and the concentrations of several precursors and metabolites of testosterone were lower than those before drug use. In contrast, circulating concentrations of steroid sulphates were not decreased, with the exception of dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate. After hCG injection serum testosterone and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone concentrations increased significantly, whereas no increases in estradiol and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations were observed. These results demonstrate that during transient hypogonadotrophism in adult men, the testicular responsiveness to a single injection of hCG is similar to that in prepubertal boys without any sign of steroidogenic lesion at the 17,20-desmolase step. Therefore, the appearance of the possibly estradiol-mediated inhibition at the level of C21-steroid side-chain splitting in testosterone biosynthesis seems to be dependent on priming by gonadotrophins.
PMID: 3747510 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
Anthony Roberts said:
Post Cycle may be the ideal time to use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - . There is ample evidence that during post-cycle anabolic steroid induced transient hypogonadism the testicles are actually "primed" to use HCG and increase test levels without increasing estrogen levels.

(This doesn't mean that it's not useful on a cycle, but I really think it's very useful for PCT - post cycle therapy - )

Here's a study:

J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Jul;25(1):109-12.
Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic gonadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes.

Martikainen H, Alén M, Rahkila P, Vihko R.
Serum concentrations of testosterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estradiol and several other unconjugated and sulphated steroids were analyzed before and after a single dose of hCG in 6 power athletes, who had used high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids for 3 months. The study was carried out 3 weeks after cessation of drug use, but the study subjects were still characterized by hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. The mean concentrations of serum lh - leutenizing hormone - and FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - were 2.6 +/- 0.3 and 1.1 +/- 0.03 mIU/ml (mean +/- SEM), respectively, and the concentrations of several precursors and metabolites of testosterone were lower than those before drug use. In contrast, circulating concentrations of steroid sulphates were not decreased, with the exception of dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate. After hCG injection serum testosterone and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone concentrations increased significantly, whereas no increases in estradiol and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations were observed. These results demonstrate that during transient hypogonadotrophism in adult men, the testicular responsiveness to a single injection of hCG is similar to that in prepubertal boys without any sign of steroidogenic lesion at the 17,20-desmolase step. Therefore, the appearance of the possibly estradiol-mediated inhibition at the level of C21-steroid side-chain splitting in testosterone biosynthesis seems to be dependent on priming by gonadotrophins.
PMID: 3747510 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Click to expand...

So AR do you agree that option #1 is not stupid or dangerous and can work?
 
I don't think either option is dangerous, and either can work. That being said, I don't think that they're optimal.
 
Anthony Roberts said:
I don't think either option is dangerous, and either can work. That being said, I don't think that they're optimal.
Click to expand...

Do you agree with those that say 500iu EW during is best?
 
thebadguy54 said:
Do you agree with those that say 500iu EW during is best?
Click to expand...

It may help. People say that it does, but I never really understand what they mean by that. In other words, people say "I used HCG during a cycle, and it helped me recover more quickly post cycle"...

But how do you know "when" you're recovered post cycle? I mean...lets say that you have a 6 week PCT planned for after your cycle, right? Ok..and you run HCG during the cycle. Now, do you only run a 4 week PCT and get the same results as you would have with the 6 week one and no HCG during?

People typically run "X" length PCT (usually individual)...and they run it until they're out of their PCT meds, because they bought the exact amount they need for the PCT. I've heard a million times that HCG during a cycle helped people recover more quickly after it, but then if you ask "OK...so that means you stopped your PCT early" they say no. Well, if you recovered more quickly, then you would have stopped your PCT when you recovered, wouldn't you?

I've never heard someone say that using HCG during a cycle got their post cycle bloodwork to normal range within 4 weeks of PCT, but when they ran their cycle without it, it took 6 (or 8 or 10) weeks to recover their bloodwork to within normal range.

See what I'm saying? I just don't know how to quantify the thought that HCG during a cycle (instead of after) will help you recover more quickly, and I don't know how people quantify it when they say it. Certainly nobody cuts short their PCT because they used HCG during a cycle...or says "I only need 2 weeks of PCT, because I did HCG during my cycle"...

And I think we'd be seeing that kind of thing if HCG was getting people to recover more quickly.
 
Anthony Roberts said:
Post Cycle may be the ideal time to use HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - . There is ample evidence that during post-cycle anabolic steroid induced transient hypogonadism the testicles are actually "primed" to use HCG and increase test levels without increasing estrogen levels.

(This doesn't mean that it's not useful on a cycle, but I really think it's very useful for PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - )

Here's a study:

J Steroid Biochem. 1986 Jul;25(1):109-12.
Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic gonadotrophin during transient hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes.

Martikainen H, Alén M, Rahkila P, Vihko R.
Serum concentrations of testosterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, estradiol and several other unconjugated and sulphated steroids were analyzed before and after a single dose of hCG in 6 power athletes, who had used high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids for 3 months. The study was carried out 3 weeks after cessation of drug use, but the study subjects were still characterized by hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. The mean concentrations of serum lh - leutenizing hormone - - leutenizing hormone - and FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - - follicle stimulating hormone - were 2.6 +/- 0.3 and 1.1 +/- 0.03 mIU/ml (mean +/- SEM), respectively, and the concentrations of several precursors and metabolites of testosterone were lower than those before drug use. In contrast, circulating concentrations of steroid sulphates were not decreased, with the exception of dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate. After hCG injection serum testosterone and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone concentrations increased significantly, whereas no increases in estradiol and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations were observed. These results demonstrate that during transient hypogonadotrophism in adult men, the testicular responsiveness to a single injection of hCG is similar to that in prepubertal boys without any sign of steroidogenic lesion at the 17,20-desmolase step. Therefore, the appearance of the possibly estradiol-mediated inhibition at the level of C21-steroid side-chain splitting in testosterone biosynthesis seems to be dependent on priming by gonadotrophins.
PMID: 3747510 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Click to expand...


Anthony,

I have the full text of that study you posted. What the abstract doesn’t say, is that the 4500iu hCG shot rose testosterone to 1/5 of the subjects pre-cycle levels. Also, E2, went back up to pre-cycle values. That abstract really gives a poor summery of the studies findings. Basically the steroid using subjects were about 20x less responsive to hCG as normal man, and it was not able to bring back pre-cycle test levels.

Ive been though every hCG study on this planet, and I keeping coming back around to the same conclusion – If the testes take significant time off (16 weeks) they will permanently loose their ability to produce testosterone naturally. You’ve got to keep them active, hence the on cycle use of hCG is very important.

Honestly, the need for an actual “PCT” is almost completely reduced when you run hCG on cycle. Guys that do this say its basically a seamless transition from being on and then going off… simply because your nuts don’t need to “recover” as they are already working just fine. It really only becomes a mater of 2-3 weeks for LH/FSH levels to bounce back.

-Pp
 
Last edited:
eddawg said:
I'm going for the part of keeping my testes active. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - all through the cycle.
Click to expand...

I've decided to try the human chorionic gonadotropin during.

Here is what I'm going to do:
Week 1 & 2 - 500mg testosterone enanthate, 650mg Equipoise
Week 3 & 4 - 500mg testosterone enanthate, 600mg Equipoise
Week 5 - 14 - 500mg testosterone enanthate, 500mg Equipoise, 500iu human chorionic gonadotropin - EW.
Week 15 & 16 - 250mg testosterone enanthate, 500iu human chorionic gonadotropin - EW.
Week 17 - 500iu human chorionic gonadotropin - /week
Week 18 - 21 - 50mg Clomid ED

Should I start the HCG in week 3 or 4... or sooner?
I'm still undecided as far as what to use for an anti-E during weeks 1-17. I have Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - already so may just go with that.
I'm not using the same amount every week because I have 3 bottles of each and I want to use them all up (use all my Test in 16 weeks and all my Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - in 14 weeks).

Your opinions are appreciated. ...and thanks Pp.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/steroids-discussion-forum/2nd-cycle-help-please-550221.html
 
thebadguy54 said:
I've decided to try the human chorionic gonadotropin during.

Here is what I'm going to do:
Week 1 & 2 - 500mg testosterone enanthate, 650mg Equipoise
Week 3 & 4 - 500mg testosterone enanthate, 600mg Equipoise
Week 5 - 14 - 500mg testosterone enanthate, 500mg Equipoise, 500iu human chorionic gonadotropin - EW.
Week 15 & 16 - 250mg testosterone enanthate, 500iu human chorionic gonadotropin - EW.
Week 17 - 500iu human chorionic gonadotropin - /week
Week 18 - 21 - 50mg Clomid ED

Should I start the HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - in week 3 or 4... or sooner?
I'm still undecided as far as what to use for an anti-E during weeks 1-17. I have Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - already so may just go with that.
I'm not using the same amount every week because I have 3 bottles of each and I want to use them all up (use all my Test in 16 weeks and all my Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - in 14 weeks).

Your opinions are appreciated. ...and thanks Pp.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/steroids-discussion-forum/2nd-cycle-help-please-550221.html
Click to expand...


Starting the 500iu hCG on week 3 should be fine. I like aromasin or formestane as on cycle aromatase inhibitors... but based on your doseges you may not need an anti-e till the end of the cycle. Its good to start dropping your estrogen at the end of a cycle to prime your body for recovery.

-Pp
 
I still dont get why people do these 4-5 month cycles

get in, hit it hard, start PCT 7-10 days before the gear clears your system..run some anabolic agents like creatine, clen, GH, slin, ect for a few weeks and do it again.

IMHO it is the long cycles where you have to deal with the harsh sides and intense HPTA crashing
 
thebadguy54 said:
My cycle will be:
week 1-15 - 500 mg testosterone enanthate / week
week 1-13 - 500 mg Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - / week

Which PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - do you guys like better for this cycle?

OPTION #1
3 weeks after last test injection:
week 18 - 5000 i.u. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - /week (5000 i.u. taken in one shot!) & 100mg clomid/day
week 19 - 5000 i.u. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - /week (5000 i.u. split into 3 shots) & 50mg clomid/day

or

OPTION #2
day after last test shot:
500 i.u. of HCG ED for 10 days
7 days after last shot of HCG:
50 mg Clomid ED for 21 days

Also not sure which is better to take during weeks 1-15... Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - , Arimidex - anastrozole - or AIFM? Let me know your opinions please.
Click to expand...

option 2, but extend the clomid and add nolva dunring HCG
 
Wulfgar said:
I still dont get why people do these 4-5 month cycles

get in, hit it hard, start PCT - post cycle therapy - 7-10 days before the gear clears your system..run some anabolic agents like creatine, Clenbuterol, gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - , insulin, ect for a few weeks and do it again.

IMHO it is the long cycles where you have to deal with the harsh sides and intense hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - crashing
Click to expand...

I was told I should run EQ for at least 14 weeks to get the full benefit from it... and also told to run test two weeks past EQ to aid in recovery. I originally wanted to do 12 weeks.
 
Primordial Performance said:
Anthony,

I have the full text of that study you posted. What the abstract doesn’t say, is that the 4500iu HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - - human chorionic gonadotropin - shot rose testosterone to 1/5 of the subjects pre-cycle levels. Also, E2, went back up to pre-cycle values. That abstract really gives a poor summery of the studies findings. Basically the steroid using subjects were about 20x less responsive to hCG as normal man, and it was not able to bring back pre-cycle test levels.

Ive been though every hCG study on this planet, and I keeping coming back around to the same conclusion – If the testes take significant time off (16 weeks) they will permanently loose their ability to produce testosterone naturally. You’ve got to keep them active, hence the on cycle use of hCG is very important.

Honestly, the need for an actual “PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - ” is almost completely reduced when you run hCG on cycle. Guys that do this say its basically a seamless transition from being on and then going off… simply because your nuts don’t need to “recover” as they are already working just fine. It really only becomes a mater of 2-3 weeks for lh - leutenizing hormone - - leutenizing hormone - /FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - - follicle stimulating hormone - levels to bounce back.

-Pp
Click to expand...

I didn't say HCG on a cycle was useless...just that I think it's better on PCT, if you have to choose. As for it's use on a cycle, I think that's useful also...certainly the research supports that it can be used to maintain several hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - markers.

However, most of my clients find that it's not something that they really like to mess with on a cycle for various reasons. If you're doing a couple of grams a week of anabolic androgenic steroids, I don't think that Duchaine's protocol (From the first USH) of 500iu of HCG E3W is going to do much at all.

That being said, since I'm only on HRT doses, and have a 'script for 500iu/HCG 2x a week, I'm willing to see what kind of effect it has on me.

As for 16 weeks being the mark where you lose the ability to produce test permanently...

I don't know anyone who ran HCG during a cycle and then no PCT - post cycle therapy - and felt that they recovered. I don't even know someone who ran HCG during a cycle, and then decided to not do a PCT - post cycle therapy - .

I was on a 3 year cycle, and my test levels got back to about 1/3rd of what they were when I was 19 years old, within 3 weeks after my last shot. I have no doubt that I'd have eventually recovered to within median range with no PCT - post cycle therapy - at all.
 
Last edited:
blut wump said:
So run 12 weeks and drop the Equ at week 10. Better still, run 10 weeks and drop the Equ at week 8.
Click to expand...

I may do that (Test 12 and EQ 10)... what about being on EQ for a minimum of 14 weeks though?

My goal isn't to gain a ton of weight... I just need to be as strong as an Ox and faster then the speed of light.
 
You don't need to drop the Eq before the test. Just go straight through with both.
 
I think you had the rite idea from the beggining .. EQ starts working the best around week 8/9 so to go 12 weeks would be good for both ..
 
Wulfgar said:
I still dont get why people do these 4-5 month cycles

get in, hit it hard, start PCT - post cycle therapy - 7-10 days before the gear clears your system..run some anabolic agents like creatine, Clenbuterol, gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - , insulin, ect for a few weeks and do it again.

IMHO it is the long cycles where you have to deal with the harsh sides and intense hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - crashing
Click to expand...
agreed....i get the majority of my gains within the first 6 weeks anyway no matter how much I try increasing the dosage. that's when i get myself in trouble with sides too.....always want more though!!!!! :chomp:
 
Anthony Roberts said:
I didn't say HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - on a cycle was useless...just that I think it's better on PCT - post cycle therapy - , if you have to choose. As for it's use on a cycle, I think that's useful also...certainly the research supports that it can be used to maintain several hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - markers.

However, most of my clients find that it's not something that they really like to mess with on a cycle for various reasons. If you're doing a couple of grams a week of anabolic androgenic steroids, I don't think that Duchaine's protocol (From the first USH) of 500iu of HCG E3W is going to do much at all.

That being said, since I'm only on HRT doses, and have a 'script for 500iu/HCG 2x a week, I'm willing to see what kind of effect it has on me.

As for 16 weeks being the mark where you lose the ability to produce test permanently...

I don't know anyone who ran HCG during a cycle and then no PCT - post cycle therapy - and felt that they recovered. I don't even know someone who ran HCG during a cycle, and then decided to not do a PCT - post cycle therapy - .

I was on a 3 year cycle, and my test levels got back to about 1/3rd of what they were when I was 19 years old, within 3 weeks after my last shot. I have no doubt that I'd have eventually recovered to within median range with no PCT - post cycle therapy - at all.
Click to expand...


There are guys who are running very light or short PCTs, because they have done the hCG on the cycle. I still think 500iu E3W would be very helpful -- anything is helpful during a cycle. Even the 1000iu every 6 weeks is helpful (the old "on cycle" hCG protocol)

Your lucky to have such high natrual test levels after a 3 year cycle... that is rare.

Shooting hCG on cycle is simple as hell... its no different that another slin or HGH shot. I see no reason why you wouldnt do it.

-Pp
 
Primordial Performance said:
Starting the 500iu HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - on week 3 should be fine. I like aromasin or formestane as on cycle aromatase inhibitors... but based on your doseges you may not need an anti-e till the end of the cycle. Its good to start dropping your estrogen at the end of a cycle to prime your body for recovery.

-Pp
Click to expand...
aromsin instead of arimedix? i like the idea of running hcg during. i hate the crash feeling and that should help.

If you were to run hcg during what would your pct look like for a moderate 8-10 week test cycle? (less than 1000mg) since you mentioned anti-e's at the end to prime.
 
Primordial Performance said:
Your lucky to have such high natrual test levels after a 3 year cycle... that is rare.

-Pp
Click to expand...

I wish more people would get bloodwork and keep accurate cycle logs. I wonder how unique I really am, wrt that?

You know why we're still guessing at a lot of things now, 5 decades after they were first widely used in sports??!?!? Because nobody keeps an accurate record of this kind of thing...and when they do (GDR, Balco, etc ...) we can't get access to it in full.
 
Anthony Roberts said:
I wish more people would get bloodwork and keep accurate cycle logs. I wonder how unique I really am, wrt that?

You know why we're still guessing at a lot of things now, 5 decades after they were first widely used in sports??!?!? Because nobody keeps an accurate record of this kind of thing...and when they do (GDR, Balco, etc ...) we can't get access to it in full.
Click to expand...

I got blood work done before, after and every 3-4 weeks during my last cycle but the doc has all the info in her file. Next cycle I'm going to do the same thing but write down my results and keep my own records.

What are the things I should be asking her to check? Serum Test levels? ALT/SGOT? Cholesterol? Red boold cell count (Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - )?
 
thebadguy54 said:
I got blood work done before, after and every 3-4 weeks during my last cycle but the doc has all the info in her file.
Click to expand...

I get all of mine sent to me...I keep it in a binder, for reference. This is how I know my test levels at age 19 vs/ now.

It's interesting to me, but that's probably because this is my job.

One time, I posted all of my recent bloodwork on a site...and a pic of my dog also. The Bloodwork got like 10 replies, the pics of my dog got 3 pages.
 
I find it intersting no one has been able to explian to me ever what exactly takes a drug a certian time to "kick in"
what exactly is that? last I checked, and correct me if I am wrong, but steroids run on active and half lives, meaning basically that they are immediately "kicked in" to some degree based on thier ester type from the moment they enter your blood stream. so lets say we take EQ, lets say it has an 8 day half life(though I have seen some literature saying it is 16 days). anyhow, I hypothetically inject 200 mg, this means over an 8 day period HALF of that 200( 100 for all the non-math majors) has been broken down, utilized, transcriped and a myriad of other chemical reactions by day 8. so why hasnt it "kicked in" yet? guess what, it HAS!!
In my experience the body generally sees its greatest results on a particular protocol within the first 6 weeks. The explaination for this IMO is that the body produces countermeasures to maintain homeostasis to efficiently by that point so a type of diminishing returns occurs with respect to supraphysiological anabolic/androgenic to estrogenic/catabolic ratios.
The answer? Do shorter cycles!!! and for gods sake rotate the chemicals or at least change them up in an educated way (i.e. enter a cycle with high androgenic drugs and end it with low androgenic high anabolic drugs)
anyhow, i could write a book and try to sell it to everyone on here. but I have too many other things do do. lol besides Im not smart enough or qualified enough to do that. I write this based on clinical experience and being privy to alot of bodybuilders who have done lots of steroids and have had lots of bloodwork done. lol

:coffee:
 
(i.e. enter a cycle with high androgenic drugs and end it with low androgenic high anabolic drugs)
can you give an example?
 
mobro said:
aromsin instead of arimedix? i like the idea of running HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during. i hate the crash feeling and that should help.

If you were to run HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - during what would your PCT - post cycle therapy - look like for a moderate 8-10 week test cycle? (less than 1000mg) since you mentioned anti-e's at the end to prime.
Click to expand...
bump for response from the knowledgable!
 
mobro said:
(i.e. enter a cycle with high androgenic drugs and end it with low androgenic high anabolic drugs)
can you give an example?
Click to expand...
sure
lets say for instance you wanted to run a 6 week protocol consisting of Test cyp, Dbol and Deca
Dbol and Test are very high androgenic drugs whereas deca is less androgenic but more anabolic
so you would start by doing(for instance) Dbol in a descending dose for the first 16 days while taking 200 mg of test cyp EOD for the same time. so basically we are quickly establishing a high androgenic blood plasma level with the Dbol while waiting for the peak of our test cyp to peak. at the 16 day point we would stop the Dbol and start the Deca @ 200 mg EOD. In doing so we are starting to transition the body into a less androgenic state and into a more anabolic state and doing so before suffering most sides associated with high androgenic drugs.
we continue our injections of the test cyp until day 24 and the deca until day 32 meaning the cyp should be clear of our blood stream around day 40 and the deca will clear at the end of our cycle @ day 48.
start a mild PCT protocol @ day 40 and continue until day 60 utilizing mild anti-E's, possible HCG, anabolic growth factors such as GH, T3, IGF-1 creatine,clen, ephedrine ect. by day 61 you should be all set to run it again

:coffee:
 
mobro said:
bump for response from the knowledgable!
Click to expand...

Id personally run a Sustain and MyogenX combo for 4 weeks. (after runing an AI on the last part of the cycle) Of course you could also do clomid or nolva, but I don’t touch those drugs anymore.

-Pp
 
Primordial Performance said:
Id personally run a Sustain and MyogenX combo for 4 weeks. (after runing an aromatase inhibitor on the last part of the cycle) Of course you could also do clomid or Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - , but I don’t touch those drugs anymore.

-Pp
Click to expand...

I wish we had exact numbers on the Resveratrol as a SERM...test elevation, etc...I'd easily reccomend it over Nolv/Clo if I knew exact numbers...
 
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