Which Is A Tougher Soldier? A Marine Recon, Seal, Or Ranger?

[revexrevex]

JavaGuru, you are an encyclopedia on the specifics of war. I always enjoy reading your posts, your knowledge is incredible.

 

[javaguru]

As Napoleon is attributed to have said," The morale is to the physical as ten is to one." The German victories were based on superior tactics, training and their understanding of combined arms warfare. Even the French had a superior tank to the Wehrmacht in the form of the Charb1. German tanks couldn't penetrate its front armour and had to track it or ambush it for side/rear shots. Fortunately for the werhrmacht the french dispersed their armor as infantry support as opposed to concentrating it, one of a series of fatal mistakes.

At the beginning of operation Barbarossa, the war against the Soviet Union, the Red Army was thrown into disarray and literally overrun by the Wehrmacht. Stalin personally oversaw much of the defence, ordering divisions to hold their ground regardless of the military situation and ordering suicidal human wave attacks. Eventually due to the wehrmachts problems with supply they were left with two options as they approached Moscow. They could halt the advance and resupply for a spring offensive or use their remaining supplies for one final push into Moscow. It was decided to press on to Moscow. The onset of Winter as well as fresh reserves from Siberia saved Moscow. Hitler was enraged and sacked many of his leading generals and replaced them with politically reliable "yes men." Stalin on the other hand allowed able men like Zhukov and Konev to run the military operations while Hitler insisted on intervening more and more,overriding his generals.

An example of this fatal policy by Hitler was Von Paulus, commander of 6th army at Stalingrad. He was noted as being an excellent staff officer and politically reliable but as a junior officer had several derogatory entries in his record. He was critisized for lacking initiative and being overly cautious. These traits would play out along with Hitlers orders to hold at all cost and doom 6th Army at Stalingrad,spelling the beginning of the end for the Wehrmacht in the East.

While the Wehrmacht didn't have a direct hand in running the death camps and many officers weren't nazi's they were still very much complicit. There are numerous commendations for Wermacht units from Hitler/Himmler for helping the SS round up and deport Jews and other "undesirables." Likewise, Wehrmacht units formed einsatz gruppen or special action groups for this sole purpose.

 

[Spartacus]

4everhung, ok you're right. Russians had superior technology. HOwever Germans had a superoir mode of production. Their war machine was at full swing as they swept the Western Europe. Their factories were creating death machines, while Russian soldiers were collecting wheat to make bread. Russians never thought that the Germans would EVEN DARE to attack them, imagine that denial that cost so many lives? Germans had an element of surprise, their individual soldiers were better armored with more provisions, and they were creating tanks and airplanes while the Soviet factories stood silent. Do you know how many 18 year old man "pogranichniki" who were protecting the border, died? They werent even armed, most of them, and germans slaughtered them all. I am educated enough to appreciate the accomplishments and valiency of the German special forces, so don't think I am so one sided. There were many heroes in the Nazi army, many accomplishments, all served for the wrong cause.

..wrong again,throughout the entire war Russian production dwarfed Germany's..Hitler didn't even set the german economy into "total war" production until sometime about mid '43,when after the stalingrad catastrophe he realized germany was in deep shit.. i could go into production figure minutae(such as the Soviets were producing a T-34 tank about every 6 minutes)to illustrate my point,but I'm not really in the mood to cut and paste..I'll grant you that germany was indeed the beligerant when it invaded the USSR(though there is quite some debate about whether Stalin was also inclined to invade Germany eventually..after all the USSR and Nazi Germany did both carve up Poland in '39 and the Soviets invaded the vastly weaker Finland in '40..wonder how many 18 year old Finn's died protecting their border?). When the Soviets were overrunning german territory in '45 they were struck about how high the standard of living was for the germans and the Russian soldiers became more emboldened and determined because they felt anger over a nation which enjoyed such comparative oppulence had felt a need to invade such a relatively poor nation(for the average Russian citizen). So I attempt to understand both viewpoints in the conflict,but I'd really like to hear what you have to say about the Soviet invasion of Finland which predated Hitler's invasion of the USSR..And for the record the Finnish soldiers of WWII were the best of the war. I can elaborate,but in a nutshell they really smacked around the Russians though they were vastly,and I mean vastly outnumbered and out -equiped. One of the contributing reasons for Hitler's hunch that the Soviet Union might cave in easily came from his observation's of the dismal performance of the Red Army against little Finland

 

[javaguru]

JavaGuru, you are an encyclopedia on the specifics of war. I always enjoy reading your posts, your knowledge is incredible.

Thanks! I had the privelage of studying military history in one of the best programs in the United States. I probaly had about half a dozen classes that involved WWII in one form or another.

 

[Empire]

I would give them all a nod of respect.

 

[Spartacus]

As Napoleon is attributed to have said," The morale is to the physical as ten is to one." The German victories were based on superior tactics, training and their understanding of combined arms warfare. Even the French had a superior tank to the Wehrmacht in the form of the Charb1. German tanks couldn't penetrate its front armour and had to track it or ambush it for side/rear shots. Fortunately for the werhrmacht the french dispersed their armor as infantry support as opposed to concentrating it, one of a series of fatal mistakes.

..true about the Char B,and the French had about 3-4 other tanks that were superior to the best the Germans fielded(which was about 278 mark IVs)..at the outbreak the french had about 3200 tanks and the germans had 2500,of which about 2/3s of which were the light,vulnerable and trivially-armed PZ Is and IIs..you are quite correct about the french mis-using their armor..and though the French tanks were superiorly armed and armored,the great flaw in french tank design was that the turrets were small and the commander ahd to not only control the tank,but also serve/load and fire the gun..too much for one guy to do and at the same time deal with the new fast-paced warfare the germans were about to unleash on them..french tank design was as stuck in WWI mentality as their Maginot Line..for example,the Char B had a 47mm gun mounted in the turret,and a more impressive 75mm gun in the hull..problem was the hull mounted gun could be elevated and depressed,but not traversed;the whole tank had to be turned..and the driver served this gun so he too was overwhelmed... you can see that the french saw their armor as sort of mobile pillboxes and hence deployed them mostly scattred about infantry units..imagine the overworked commanders of these tanks dealing with concentrations of german armor moving about and deploying quickly..the french shit thier pants

 

[Yarg!]

I didnt know that FFL was a spec forces unit. I thought it was an army corp with recruit from alot of countries. O well... Anyways, I am in the Canadian Army Reserve, and I know that the JTF2 are not cry babies. When the war in Afghanistan began, George Bush himself REQUESTED that Canada send it's famed snipers and its JTF2. JTF2 is modeled after British SAS ( which is the pioneer of all modern special forces units) and frequently cross trains with it. Alot of JTF2 men are from the disbanded Canadian Airborne unit which, before its disbandment was the best in the world. Our snipers are also the best in the world, and I am not making this shit up. They recently won a sniping contest between various countries which included British SAS snipers, FBI snipers, and alot of spec forces snipers from other countries. It is a shame that our military is soo poorly funded because our soldiers are damn good at what they do. Madinka, I have alot of respect for your grandfather and any World War 2 vet, for my grandfather also fought in The War. Also I think SAS might be the best in Spec Force in the world, along with JTF2 ofcourse.

 

[motocrosser]

won't let me vote, but I got to go with the Rangers. You ever watched the Best Ranger Comp. on OLN? Man is it grueling

 

[tiger88]

Waffen SS back in the day.....what about Delta Force????


who the hell are the Viginia boys??? the republican said that????

 

[Climber406]

Respect for the dead

Shugard and Gordon were both Deltas.

Atleast have the fucking decency to spell SFC Randall D. Shughart's name right. Both of them are fucking CMOH awardees for fuck sake. Show some respect.