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Whey Isolate vs. Whey Concentrate vs. Whey Hydrolysates

Hydrolyzed whey - let's break some myths :

"But what about hydrolization (breaking the proteins into smaller fractions like "di and tri peptides") couldn't this make whey into the superior product that it is supposed to be? What we found was that the hydrolyzed whey promotes less nitrogen retention than a similar non-hydrolyzed whey (a bad thing for a bodybuilder because a positive nitrogen balance is a must for anabolic muscle gain.) As a note: the hydrolyzed product that we studied was the BEST in the industry with a 27% hydrolization, no bitter taste, and at a cost from the manufacturer of greater than $8.00 per pound! Rest assured, NO manufacturer is selling a whey product where the raw materials for the protein cost anywhere close to $8 per pound.

Consider the above and you will quickly realize that supplement companies (who don't actually manufacture the whey but buy the raw product from an actual manufacturer) are telling "some fibs" about whey protein. BV of 168--ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS! Real whey manufacturers sometimes still use BV to grade protein, and they always rate whey protein as a 94 BV! When you see a 168 BV claim listed on the label of several manufacturers' whey protein, just turn your head, know you're being scammed, and absolutely don't buy!

Now let's consider the other claims and statements about the di-and tri- peptides, about glutamine, and about the BCAAs (Branch Chain Amino Acids).

If hydrolization doesn't further increase nitrogen retention, then what is the point of breaking protein into its smaller fractions like di- and tri- peptides? There IS a good reason for hydrolyzing a protein and having short peptides but it has nothing to do with BV/nitrogen retention. Instead, it has everything to do with how FAST and EASY the product is absorbed in the gut. Regular, undigested whey will be broken down into di- and tri-peptides via enzymes in a person's gut and will be absorbed as such. The caveat is that the whole process just takes a little longer. Hydrolyzed products are basically only useful in baby food or hospital situations where a person's digestive system is not functioning optimally or when protein delivery is needed very quickly.

Is there any benefit of a hydrolyzed product for the bodybuilder? To tell you the truth, I would have to say NO -- except possibly for the benefit of having a quickly absorbed protein immediately after a workout to ensure the muscle tissue is flooded with nutrients in a timely manner albeit with a nitrogen penalty. Interestingly, this entire argument about hydrolized protein is academic as it is not currently sold on the market. Here's why. One, the cost of hydrolyzed whey is outrageous and two, its taste is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. Trust me, if you're want to induce vomiting, just take a little hydrolyzed whey protein!"
 
snagglepuss said:
I know you need to get whey protein after a workout, but is there a big difference between Whey Isolates, Concentrates and Hydrolysates?

It is the BV of protien that makes Isolate superior. Its how much of your protien you are actually ustilizing. Once you understand the BV of protien you will see why Whey Isolate kicks some serious ass.

Here is an old post of mine.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273174&highlight=Rocks

Although one gram of protein will contain four calories in all cases, the amount of protein which our body can digest and use for muscel building purposes is not always 100%. In fact, the most easily digestible natural protein source are whole eggs, where the percentag net utilization by our bodies is 94%. Because eggs contain the best protein digestion rate of any natural source, eggs are given a protein rating of '100' and all other protein containing food sources are rated according to how digestible they are compared to egg protein.

AS we all know (and SHOULD be using), there are protein powders which digest even easier than egg protein and can be utilized by our bodies even more than the 94% that natural egg protein can be. These protein powders would have a protein rating higher than 100 on the scale below.

So here it is... Biological Value

The BIological Value (BV) is a scale of measurement used to determine what percentage of a given nutrient source is utilized by the body. The scale is most frequently applied to protein sources, particularly whey protein. Biological Value is derived from providing a measure intake of protein, then determining the nitrogen uptake versus nitrogen excretion. THe theoretical highest BV of any food source is 100%. To break it down .... - BV refers to how well and howe quickly your body can actually use the protein you consume.

Here is a list of various sources of protein and their respective ratings.

Protein Ratings
FOOD PROTEIN - RATING
Eggs (whole) - 100
Eggs (whites) - 88
Chicken / Turkey - 79
Fish - 70
Lean Beef - 69
Cow's Milk - 60
Brown Rice - 57
White Rice - 56
Soybeans - 47
Whole-grain Wheat - 44
Peanuts - 43
Dry Beans - 34
White Potato - 34

As far as sources of protein created in the lab are concerned, here is a short list of some protein sources you can find in most supplements common today. YOu cann see how they compare to the natural sources listed above:

Protein Ratings
PROTEIN SUPPLEMENT - PROTEIN RATING
Whey Protein Isolate - 159
Whey Protein Concentrate - 104
Casein - 77
Soy - 74

You can see that whey isolate has the highest BV of any protein source. You get the most bang for the bucl. This is usually why it is so damn expensive. I recommend to buy flavourless whey isolate. That way you are not paying for any sugar weight, just pure high grade protein. I also would recommend taking it with water.

So are all protiens created equal? NO. Whey Isolate rules, it has superior AA profile,and doesn't cause all the stomach discomfort of the concentrates. Micellar Casein is an excellent choice as well,has the same benefits as WPI,with the added bonus of being absorbed much slower,thus giving a timed release and less potential of oxidation. I started buying my Isolates by the 20kg bag from Vitalus, so i dont have to be as sparing with it anymore. I love the stuff, and will not use anything else PW. I admitt the afstore IsoAGB sounds like an amazing formula, just a little pricy for me personally right now.

Cheers,
Mavy
 
Mavy, I use Vitalus now too! (Thanks to you!!!) I wanted to know if it was OK to throw in a scoop of it with my ultra fuel immediatly P.O.? I use it for everything else too but I wanted to know if it digested fast enough to take immediatly after my workout with my high G.I. carb drink to spike insulin.

I usually just took an Ultra Fuel right after my workout and ate a huge liquid meal about an hour later, but I've been hearing recently that adding protein to your P.W. drink gave better results, so yeah, will vitalus do the job? Or should I hunt for a hydrosylate?
 
Vitalus again I hear - how do you order from them? Do I have to contact them directly via phone/fax? Could anyone please PM me the details - I suppose there shouldn't be any problems with violating TOS.

And just on the general note: BV of protein is just a quirk, a marketing ploy. In other words: are you telling me that for 1g of Isolate I produce and/or retain 1.59g of NO?! Just a little bit far fetched wouldn't you think?

Good thing about Isolate: it's the Beta-lactoglobulin, Alpha-lactalbumin, Immunoglobulin, Bovine Serum Albumin, Lactoferrin content and the respective ratios. Isolate is mainly comprised of the components mentioned above, while other proteins are 'adulterated' by their own filtration (or rather inefficient filtration) byproducts.
 
Go to Vitalus's website and e-mail them. I don't know if they ship outside of Canada though, if they do, I supose they'd take a M.O.

I add the isolate to something else though, it tastes like complete ass on its own. Kinda like watered down rancid milk. :p
 
juve said:
Vitalus again I hear - how do you order from them? Do I have to contact them directly via phone/fax? Could anyone please PM me the details - I suppose there shouldn't be any problems with violating TOS.

And just on the general note: BV of protein is just a quirk, a marketing ploy. In other words: are you telling me that for 1g of Isolate I produce and/or retain 1.59g of NO?! Just a little bit far fetched wouldn't you think?
QUOTE]

Not sayin that at all. The scale of 100, is nothing more than a scale to base this upon, which happens to be whole eggs. Its to provide reference. As mentioned above, biological value is not a ploy, it is derived from providing a measure intake of protein, then determining the nitrogen uptake versus nitrogen excretion. You will see these numbers differ from one place to another for certain foods depending who is rating it. If Isolate was ranked at 100% everything esle would have a lower BV as well. Because eggs contain the best protein digestion rate of any natural source, eggs are given a protein rating of '100' and all other protein containing food sources are rated according to how digestible they are compared to egg protein. Its a point of reference.

For Vitalus, all their protien info and contact info and are listed on this site.
http://www.vitalus.com/

THey are Canadian based, but probably ship to the US as well. Shipping was $25.00 CDN to have a 20kg bag of protien shipped to my city. I have yet to use a protien that mixes as well as this. I am getting used to the flaovourless option now too. This stuff will last me forever.
 
RussianRocket said:
Mavy, I use Vitalus now too! (Thanks to you!!!) I wanted to know if it was OK to throw in a scoop of it with my ultra fuel immediatly P.O.? I use it for everything else too but I wanted to know if it digested fast enough to take immediatly after my workout with my high G.I. carb drink to spike insulin.

I usually just took an Ultra Fuel right after my workout and ate a huge liquid meal about an hour later, but I've been hearing recently that adding protein to your P.W. drink gave better results, so yeah, will vitalus do the job? Or should I hunt for a hydrosylate?

Ya bro, I load up on isolated ASAP after a workout. Mix em up in your shake this is when you will use them best.
 
Mavy said:
It is the BV of protien that makes Isolate superior. Its how much of your protien you are actually ustilizing. Once you understand the BV of protien you will see why Whey Isolate kicks some serious ass.

Scoring Protein by BV is one of the many areas where the bodybuilding public is being deceived and manipulated. BV and PER (protein efficiency ratio) are OUTDATED. The newest and most accurate measurement of a protein's quality for a HUMAN is the PDCAAS--Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score.
The highest PDCAAS score possible is 1.0. Any protein with a score of 1.0 is considered complete for use by the human body. Soy-protein isolate, egg white, whey, and casein proteins all have a perfect 1.0 score.
 
GreekGod said:
Scoring Protein by BV is one of the many areas where the bodybuilding public is being deceived and manipulated. BV and PER (protein efficiency ratio) are OUTDATED. The newest and most accurate measurement of a protein's quality for a HUMAN is the PDCAAS--Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score.
The highest PDCAAS score possible is 1.0. Any protein with a score of 1.0 is considered complete for use by the human body. Soy-protein isolate, egg white, whey, and casein proteins all have a perfect 1.0 score.


hmmm interesting... never heard of it before. So by this ranking, does this mean that soy, or egg, or WPI are equally effective if they recieve the same score?
 
Whey is a solid protein source regardless. I think guys make too big of a deal concerning concentrate vs. isolate vs. hydro. I also think a lot of that has to do with supplement companies feeding everyone's head about the "huge differences".
 
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