where to read about medicine studies?

[Voijn]

hey guys
I actually like reading about medicine and studies done on either humans or animals. I read on Ergo-log.com its a great studie site where their test alot of things wich result in some way that we as atlhetes can use it.

For example:
Zink as testbooster
Fish oil for lowering estrogene
ginko baloba for the aromatising enzyme
Nolvadex as a HTPA booster, better then clomid?

ect.

Since ive read on the site a few years ive read all of the studies and was wondering if there where any other sites that look alike? do studies that help atlhetes in some way?

 

[Liquid 2009]

Pubmed

 

[Nelson Montana]

hey guys
I actually like reading about medicine and studies done on either humans or animals. I read on Ergo-log.com its a great studie site where their test alot of things wich result in some way that we as atlhetes can use it.

For example:
Zink as testbooster
Fish oil for lowering estrogene
ginko baloba for the aromatising enzyme
Nolvadex as a HTPA booster, better then clomid?

ect.

Since ive read on the site a few years ive read all of the studies and was wondering if there where any other sites that look alike? do studies that help atlhetes in some way?

Medicine studies? You mean MEDICAL studies? Well, sure there are plenty and many are referenced right here, but ti depends on what you're looking for. That site you mentioned has some fun stuff but you have to take it with a grain of salt.

For example, zince raises testosterone -- sure, if you're depleted from a zinc deficiency. That is VERY misleading. But that's the way most of these "medical studies" work.

I didn't read all the others and I couldn;t find the nolva/clomid piece you mentioned, though I did find a couple of others that were interesting. One study showed that clomid did absolutly nothing. (no surprise there) and another showed an improvment on ONE person who had low T because of excessive running. Of course the test was taken months after he STOPPED RUNNING!

Just more examples of how the whole clomid controversy is misunderstood.

I like sound-bite stuff like that. MD has been using that approach for some time. Pretty much the first half of the mag is sound bites. MuscleMag has them too. But remember, that's all they are -- bits -- bits of information where the conclusion can be pretty much anything you want it to be.

 

[Voijn]

arh thanks alot mate, i know they might be alittle overblown.!
Medical studies is what im talking about, got a site?

pubmed what is that?

 

[t_i_c_a_l]

Medicine studies? You mean MEDICAL studies? Well, sure there are plenty and many are referenced right here, but ti depends on what you're looking for. That site you mentioned has some fun stuff but you have to take it with a grain of salt.

For example, zince raises testosterone -- sure, if you're depleted from a zinc deficiency. That is VERY misleading. But that's the way most of these "medical studies" work.

I didn't read all the others and I couldn;t find the nolva/clomid piece you mentioned, though I did find a couple of others that were interesting. One study showed that clomid did absolutly nothing. (no surprise there) and another showed an improvment on ONE person who had low T because of excessive running. Of course the test was taken months after he STOPPED RUNNING!

Just more examples of how the whole clomid controversy is misunderstood.

I like sound-bite stuff like that. MD has been using that approach for some time. Pretty much the first half of the mag is sound bites. MuscleMag has them too. But remember, that's all they are -- bits -- bits of information where the conclusion can be pretty much anything you want it to be.

Can you post a link to the abstract or tell us the title of the study that showed clomid did absolutely nothing?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Can you post a link to the abstract or tell us the title of the study that showed clomid did absolutely nothing?

Sure, here ya go, right here.Case study: clomid normalises bodybuilder’s hormone levels

It shows that after using 50 mgs a day -- a pretty hefty dosage. It did nothing.

It wasn't until the dosage was doubled and another month went by that there was some improvment. Of course, T levels wold begin rising on their own by that time anyway. Plus, it says his testicles remained small. Ergo -- it did nothing.

There's another study -- you can search it yourslef, that showed anti aromataes increases T more than nolva or clomid and another study that showed GINGER raised T as much as Clomid. Considering all he negative sides of Clomid and the alternatives now available, that makes it pretty worthless IMO.

And I'm not going to argue about it. You better not either. If you wanted back on the board, I can understand. But the fact that you're trying to make an issue of something that's already been resolved suggests you're just looking to start the same shit all over again and I guarantee nobody is in the mood for it. .

And yes, PubMed is good. Libraries. Even the literature included in the meds themselevs.

 

[ALIN]

hey guys
I actually like reading about medicine and studies done on either humans or animals. I read on Ergo-log.com its a great studie site where their test alot of things wich result in some way that we as atlhetes can use it.

For example:
Zink as testbooster
Fish oil for lowering estrogene
ginko baloba for the aromatising enzyme
Nolvadex as a HTPA booster, better then clomid?

ect.

Since ive read on the site a few years ive read all of the studies and was wondering if there where any other sites that look alike? do studies that help atlhetes in some way?

Having access to a medical library helps. You can research about anything with the right tools.

 

[t_i_c_a_l]

Sure, here ya go, right here. Case study: clomid normalises bodybuilder’s hormone levels

It shows that after using 50 mgs a day -- a pretty hefty dosage. It did nothing.

It wasn't until the dosage was doubled and another month went by that there was some improvment. Of course, T levels wold begin rising on their own by that time anyway. Plus, it says his testicles remained small. Ergo -- it did nothing.

There's another study -- you can search it yourslef, that showed anti aromataes increases T more than nolva or clomid and another study that showed GINGER raised T as much as Clomid. Considering all he negative sides of Clomid and the alternatives now available, that makes it pretty worthless IMO.

And I'm not going to argue about it. You better not either. If you wanted back on the board, I can understand. But the fact that you're trying to make an issue of something that's already been resolved suggests you're just looking to start the same shit all over again and I guarantee nobody is in the mood for it. .

And yes, PubMed is good. Libraries. Even the literature included in the meds themselevs.

Not looking to argue about it anymore, we both have different views on this subject. I can accept that.

With all due respect, I'd like to share my thoughts on this particular study. Here are some significant quotes from the article:

After clomiphene therapy was discontinued three weeks later, the serum FSH and LH levels fell to normal, and the total serum testosterone remained at a normal level of 16.3 nmol per liter (4.7 ng per ml) (range, 12.5 to 34.5 nmol per liter [3.6 to 9.9 ng per ml]). This response suggested a restoration of normal hypothalamic-pituitarygonadal function, and it was proposed to reevaluate this function with a longer follow-up to determine whether the correction was sustained.

...

We propose that with the use of clomiphene we were able to augment the hypothalamic and pituitary responses to his low but not absent ambient estrogen derived by aromatization from testosterone. This is the first reported case of clomiphene induced restoration of FSH, LH, and free testosterone levels in a man with recreational steroid-induced pituitary-gonadal failure.

Not everyone has T at the top of the range. Plenty of men test towards the low end of the range and feel / function just fine, AAS use or not. If this study isn't a satisfactory presentation of recovery, maybe your stance would be better aimed at laboratory ranges rather than therapy. The conclusion of this study was that his HPTA was restored.

Even if his T wasn't optimal, without a baseline, there is no way to prove that clomid therapy failed. On the flip side, there is no way to prove it restored his levels to what they were prior to AAS use. What is illustrated, however, is that his levels were brought WITHIN laboratory ranges and maintained following the cessation of therapy. This is further confirmed by his own claims of libido, potency, and ability to have sex daily once again.

As for your claim that "T levels wold begin rising on their own by that time anyway," you might have overlooked the claim that he had waited 9 months before initiating any type of therapy. In other words, he waited it out, unsuccessfully.

He was advised by colleagues to take a course of clomiphene or await the spontaneous return of sexual function. He elected to wait for nine months, without success.

Something else the study illustrates was that his "trial" of HCG did nothing for him as far as recovery is concerned. A useful bit of information for those that think HCG post cycle is actually helpful.

That's all I'm going to say. Good day, sir.

 

[lartinos]

Good stuff on pubmed