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What's your favorite "post workout" meal?

ohioguy

New member
I would like to see what some people intake after workouts. For me it's usually Gatorade & Whey protein. Somebody posted that Gatorade isn't the best for post workout because of the "type" of carb. Can someone explain this to me.
Is waiting 15-20min after your workout going to make much of a difference?
Also, is post workout meal the same if cardio is all you do that day?
 
I have a new one. Fruit punch Cell Tech mixed with chocolate Isopure. Yummy. After that whatever good solid meal that's high in quality calories.
 
40grams of Whey, 120grams carbs (dextrose), 300mg r-ala, 10 grams creatine.

1 hour later full meal, usually. 2 cups rice, 2 6oz chicken breast, etc.
 
1 serving IsoPure
1 serving CarboForce

Plenty of carbs and protein and no fats, perfect for insulin administration. :)

-sk
 
16-20oz. of Grape Juice, 2 scoops of Protein Powder, and 5 grams of Creatine immediately post workout. Then, another 60 minutes later.
 
Immediatly after 40 grams whey protein/glutamine shake, followed by either 2 baked potatos and 2 chicked breasts or chicken teraiki and rice.
 
Big mac set and a Mcchicken, maybe a sundae too

Big Mac set. Supersize.
McChicken sandwich. Maybe and ice cream or a sundae.
Trying to work my way up to adding a cheeseburger to the order...gets expensive though.
 
immediate post:
1 serving Surge by biotest- 50 grams pure glucose/25 grams whey hydros.
15 grams glutamine/15 grams creatine/2 R-ALA

2 hours later: metrx APM 60, 60 grams protein (long and fast acting) and a few carbs.
 
1 can albacore tuna 22 g/protein
and 2 scoops of whey 40/g protein.
anyone heard the rumor that the body can only absorb 50 grams of protein every 2 hours? just wondering if there is any truth to that!
 
40g Whey (Eas Simply)
50g carbs from 2 packets of generic carnation breakfast(corn syrup aka dextrose is the main sugar in it)

30 min later I have 6 oz of chicken + rice.
 
Immediatly Post Workout:

8 Units Humulin R
50 Grams whey
3 Servings Rice (3/4 Cup uncooked volume)
5 Grams Creatine in water

Apx 1 hour later

8 ounces of Chicken, Lean Beef, or fish
More Rice

Apx 1.5 hours later

44 grams whey


Well this pretty much covers my 3 hour post workout ritual.. I end the day with a total of around 500 grams of protein.
 
I feel sorry for you guys not utilizing the most important to replenish muscle glycogen and prevent catabolism. You need carbs postworkout!

I have 80g dextrose 35g Pro
1.5hrs later I eat Oatmeal/fiber one/toast/eggwhites, never changes.
 
immediately after:

frozen mixed berries, orange juice, table sugar, ice, 30g non-flavored designer whey

45min later - salmon or chicken with an apple, rice or patatoes etc
 
fiz said:
immediately after:

frozen mixed berries, orange juice, table sugar, ice, 30g non-flavored designer whey

45min later - salmon or chicken with an apple, rice or patatoes etc

Ok, first off berries, orange juice, bannanas, table sugar...arn't doing shit for you so why the hell are you eating them and sacrificing all your hard work and energy only to waste it? You guys using fructose and sucrose for postworkout replensihment really need to change things up. Fructose does not replenish muscle glycogen! It restores liver glycogen and the left over is immeadiately stored as fat...so give that shit up and get some Dextrose or a Dextrose/Maltodextrin. You guys will probably notice such a huge diference in muscle fullness, stored energy, recovery, and gains. It's cheap as shit too...

www.supplementsdirect.com 11lbs of Dextrose for $10.

Throw the fruit in the trash.
 
SOLID said:


Ok, first off berries, orange juice, bannanas, table sugar...arn't doing shit for you so why the hell are you eating them and sacrificing all your hard work and energy only to waste it? You guys using fructose and sucrose for postworkout replensihment really need to change things up. Fructose does not replenish muscle glycogen! It restores liver glycogen and the left over is immeadiately stored as fat...so give that shit up and get some Dextrose or a Dextrose/Maltodextrin. You guys will probably notice such a huge diference in muscle fullness, stored energy, recovery, and gains. It's cheap as shit too...

www.supplementsdirect.com 11lbs of Dextrose for $10.

Throw the fruit in the trash.

yeah, get on they ass boy! reason my second (2hr later) drink is metrx protein only now...........i'm CUTTING! i usually take in 1 1/2 servings surge (75 grams pure glucose and 38 grams pure whey hyrdo) immediate post........then 2 hrs later, a mass fuel by twinlab shake (100 fucking mostly maltodextrin carbs and 50 grams of mixed proteins, mainly long acting). now THAT right there is the best bulking post w/o regimen. just to clear it up....the one i listed was for cutter, this is for bulker. :D for maintanence just take the bulker and use one surge and maybe half the mass fuel serving with some real food for the second.
 
My home made Pizza. Once a week I eat that f*cker.
5 minutes post workout, 20g Whey, (on the way home).
30 minutes post workout: my home made pizza that I have "prepared" pre workout..hehe
Gives me 5g fat(no extra fat, onlky the fat that comes with the meat)
Protein: About 60g. I mix chickenbreast with shrimps and sometimes a little red meat on it. Then some fat free cheese(1% fat).
Carbs: Always put on some tomatoes and muschrooms. GI will still be pretty high. about 100g carbs in this pizza.
 
Originally posted by SOLID



Ok, first off berries, orange juice, bannanas, table sugar...arn't doing shit for you so why the hell are you eating them and sacrificing all your hard work and energy only to waste it? You guys using fructose and sucrose for postworkout replensihment really need to change things up. Fructose does not replenish muscle glycogen! It restores liver glycogen and the left over is immeadiately stored as fat...so give that shit up and get some Dextrose or a Dextrose/Maltodextrin. You guys will probably notice such a huge diference in muscle fullness, stored energy, recovery, and gains. It's cheap as shit too...

www.supplementsdirect.com 11lbs of Dextrose for $10.

Throw the fruit in the trash.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOLID,
Hey bro, not flaming or anything but according to Chad Nicholls, its best to use such sources as fruit postworkout to fuel your muscles when taking insulin. He recommends this to his clients actually. In fact, he thinks that regular dextrose goes through the system way too fast! Just letting you know the facts...
 
greg21 said:
Originally posted by SOLID



Ok, first off berries, orange juice, bannanas, table sugar...arn't doing shit for you so why the hell are you eating them and sacrificing all your hard work and energy only to waste it? You guys using fructose and sucrose for postworkout replensihment really need to change things up. Fructose does not replenish muscle glycogen! It restores liver glycogen and the left over is immeadiately stored as fat...so give that shit up and get some Dextrose or a Dextrose/Maltodextrin. You guys will probably notice such a huge diference in muscle fullness, stored energy, recovery, and gains. It's cheap as shit too...

www.supplementsdirect.com 11lbs of Dextrose for $10.

Throw the fruit in the trash.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOLID,
Hey bro, not flaming or anything but according to Chad Nicholls, its best to use such sources as fruit postworkout to fuel your muscles when taking insulin. He recommends this to his clients actually. In fact, he thinks that regular dextrose goes through the system way too fast! Just letting you know the facts...


BAHA! That's fucking hilarious! Fruit does not replenish muscle glycogen bro! So go ahead a learn from Chad Nicholls, but hey your liver will be nice and replenished...HA!HA! Not to mention anything excess will be immeadiately stored as fat... so eat up dewd.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by SOLID




BAHA! That's fucking hilarious! Fruit does not replenish muscle glycogen bro! So go ahead a learn from Chad Nicholls, but hey your liver will be nice and replenished...HA!HA!


Bro, please, you mean to tell me that you are saying Chad Nicholls doesnt know what he's talking about? Bro, do you even know who he is? Im asking because if you did, I think you would probably understand that he knows more in his little pinky than most of us will ever know in a lifetime! This man is number one in the world for advising people on matters like this. Look at his clientale. The man knows his shit! When you start looking like Gunter did at the Olympia, maybe we will start listening to you then...
 
greg21 said:
Originally posted by SOLID




BAHA! That's fucking hilarious! Fruit does not replenish muscle glycogen bro! So go ahead a learn from Chad Nicholls, but hey your liver will be nice and replenished...HA!HA!


Bro, please, you mean to tell me that you are saying Chad Nicholls doesnt know what he's talking about? Bro, do you even know who he is? Im asking because if you did, I think you would probably understand that he knows more in his little pinky than most of us will ever know in a lifetime! This man is number one in the world for advising people on matters like this. Look at his clientale. The man knows his shit! When you start looking like Gunter did at the Olympia, maybe we will start listening to you then...


I don't care who he is if he's a diet coach and he's recommending fruit postworkout for MUSCLE GLYCOGEN REPLENISHMENT then he's a moron, and so are you for just listening to people because of there status and not doing the research on your own!

http://www.protraineronline.com/past/july2/fruit.cfm



Does Fruit Make You Fat?

By Patrick Gamboa B.S.

The old adage that your body is a temple is well known and still has relevance today. Without a solid foundation a temple can not be successfully constructed and will eventually collapse. The same holds true for the human body. We at ISSA strive to educate our trainers regarding the synergism between proper exercise, nutrition and behavior modification to effectively draw their clientele into not just a good lifestyle, or even a better lifestyle, but the best way of life; a fitness lifestyle.

The importance of nutrition is imperative as the foundation of any successful fitness program. The core of this foundation should be based around food. Just as certain compounds are necessary to build a solid foundation in a building, specific foods are necessary to build a solid nutritional foundation. Since we have already discussed which foods aid in building this foundation through past articles, we will focus our attention on why certain foods that are considered healthy, actually may not aid in fat reduction.

With the advent of so many nutritional approaches to achieve the ideal look, numerous inquiries regarding the practice of omitting fruit, fruit juices or any of its derivatives from a diet have surfaced. Fruit is a healthy food, full of nutrients, high in fiber, vitamins, minerals, and low in fat and calories. It is a common practice for bodybuilders during pre-contest preparation to omit fruit from their diets, as it should be for anyone looking to minimize bodyfat. We will discuss the chemistry behind the efficacy of this practice.

Our bodies can only absorb monosaccharides (glucose, galactose, or fructose), the single units of sugars and starches. Once absorbed through the small intestines into the portal vein, and then circulated into the bloodstream through the liver as blood glucose, our bodies can put glucose to work in three ways:

It can burn the glucose immediately for energy if blood glucose levels are not at a stable level of 20 grams blood borne glucose circulating per hour.


If it is not needed for energy immediately, then it is converted into glycogen in the liver or muscles. The liver has the capacity to store 100 grams of glycogen. The muscles have the capacity to store between 250-400 grams of glycogen, depending on muscle mass and physical condition. Liver glycogen supplies energy for the entire body. Muscle glycogen only supplies energy to muscles.


If the body has an excess of glucose, and all of the glycogen stores are full, the surplus glucose is converted to fat by the liver and stored as adipose tissue (bodyfat) around the body. If needed, fatty acids can be burned as fuel (BUT the fat cannot be converted back to glucose).

Now that we have outlined how our bodies use glucose, we will discuss why fruit (fructose or fruit sugar) is detrimental in an attempt to maximize fat loss. Since muscles have the specific purpose of contraction, they have a limited number of enzymes for glycogen synthesis. Muscle only has the necessary enzymes to convert glucose (and nothing else) into glycogen. The liver, however, is able to make glycogen from fructose, lactate, glycerol, alanine, and other three-carbon metabolites. Muscle glycogen, which is similar in structure to starch, is an amylopectin (branched chained polymer containing hundreds of glucose units). Unlike muscles, which can only supply energy to themselves through the stored 250-400 grams of glycogen, the liver is responsible for supplying energy to the entire body.

If you have fruit, fruit juice, or any of its derivatives, the following conditions occur:

Referring to the three ways the body uses glucose, assuming that blood glucose levels are adequate, the glucose will then be stored as glycogen. Muscle does not have the necessary enzymes to synthesize fructose into glycogen; therefore the liver converts this fructose into liver glycogen. It would only take three, 8-ounce glasses of orange juice to fully replenish liver glycogen stores. Since the liver is responsible for supplying energy to the entire body, once its stores are full, a rate limiting enzyme in glucose metabolism which is responsible for signaling the body to store glucose as glycogen or convert it to fat (phosphofructokinase), signals the body that all stores are full. If the glycogen stores are signaled as full, then the third way our body uses excess glucose is to convert it to fatty acids and store as adipose tissue. In essence, fruit sugar is easily converted to fat.

Many may be asking why then is fruit low on the glycemic index? If it does not cause a sudden release of insulin, then how could it ever be a poor food choice? Once the fructose (fruit sugar) enters the liver and liver glycogen is already full, then it can not be used by the muscles for glycogen or energy production. It is converted to fat and released back into the bloodstream to be stored as adipose tissue. The low glycemic response is based on the fact that fructose leaves the liver as fat, and fat does not raise insulin levels.

This is the biochemistry behind the recommendations to limit fruit in your diet. As mentioned, fruit is a very nutritious food full of vitamins, minerals, fiber, and low in calories and fat. If your goal is to exclusively to minimize bodyfat, then it is advisable that you consume more complex carbohydrates, which will go to replenishing muscle glycogen stores rather than fruit, which will only replenish liver glycogen stores, and is useless in muscle glycogen replenishment.

-Patrick Gamboa B.S.
[email protected]

References:
1. Costill DL, Sherman WM, Fink WJ, Witten MW, and Miller JM. The role of dietary carbohydrates in muscle glycogen resynthesis after strenuous running. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 34: 1831-1836, 1981.
2. Shafrir E. Fructose/sucrose metabolism, its physiological and pathological implications. Sugars and Sweeteners, Kretchmer N and Hollenbeck CB, Eds. CRC Press, 1991pp. 63-98.
3. Herbert V, Subak-Sharpe GJ. Total Nutrition: The Only Guide You’ll Ever Need. St Martins Press, 1987 pp. 54-55.






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And why don't you be so kind to provide me with the information that you heard Chad N...going into detail about using fructose for postworkout.
 
here's some more information for you bro...so read up and learn. Let me know if you see any mention of FRUCTOSE being the choice for muscle glycogen replacement.

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hsn_artcls_prepostnutri_2.html







AFTER
During exercise muscles use metabolic fuels at an accelerated rate. In order for physical work to be continuous, the body mobilizes stored fuels to make fatty acids, glucose, and amino acids available for oxidation. This is a catabolic process and cannot occur simultaneous to anabolic processes such as glycogen formation and protein synthesis.

In order for the body to recover from exercise, the catabolic environment must be quickly changed to an anabolic environment. The food that you eat after training affects the hormonal milieu in your body in order for this to take place. With the rapid introduction of carbohydrate, protein, and fat into the system post exercise, the body is able to begin reparations on damaged tissue and replenish fuel reserves.

Carbohydrates
Carbohydrates are important for performance and perhaps more importantly for glycogen recovery. Studies have shown an increased ability of muscle tissue to take up serum glucose immediately following strenuous exercise (Goodyear 1998). This is due to what is called, "non-insulin dependant glucose uptake". After a meal, muscle cells transport glucose across the cell membrane in response to the hormone insulin. Insulin binds with its receptors at the cell surface causing a cascade of events that ends with proteins, called glucose transporters, being translocated to the cell surface. Once at the cell surface, these glucose transporters allow glucose to pass through the membrane where they can be phosphorylated and eventually stored as glycogen.

Membrane transport of glucose will exhibit saturation kinetics similar to the effect of increasing substrate concentration on the activity of enzymes. The number of glucose transporters limits the rate of glucose entry into your muscle cells. Once all available glucose transporters are associated with a glucose molecule, the rate of glucose entry will go no higher.

There are at least 5 different classes of glucose transporter proteins. They are designated GLUT1, GLUT2, GLUT3, GLUT4, and GLUT5. Each class of GLUT protein differs in its kinetic parameters and is found in specific tissues. GLUT-4 is the primary isoform regulated by insulin, and sensitive to muscle contraction.

Muscle contractions, much like insulin, cause a separate set of GLUT-4 proteins to be temporarily translocated to the surface of the muscle cell (Sherman 1996). This greatly increases the rate at which muscle tissue can take in glucose from the blood after a bout of exercise. The effects of exercise on glucose uptake last for a few hours into the post exercise period. If the post exercise meal is lacking in carbohydrates, the replenishment of glycogen is delayed. If carbohydrates are lacking in the diet, exercise will cause a glucose deficit and glycogen stores will continue to fall without being replenished to pre exercise levels.

There has been some controversy about which type of carbohydrate is best for post exercise glycogen replenishment. Some argue that simple sugars such as dextrose are best after exercise. Others say that drinks with glucose polymers are best. Still others say that there is no need to buy fancy sports drinks and that simply eating a meal high in carbohydrates such as pasta or rice is sufficient. Studies have shown no difference between different types of carbohydrates eaten post exercise and the rate of glycogen replenishment as long as sufficient quantities of carbohydrate are consumed (Burke 1997). Even when the post exercise meal contains other macronutrients such as proteins and fats, the rate of glycogen replenishment is not hindered, given there is sufficient carbohydrate in the meal as well. These studies tell us that the rate-limiting step in glycogen replenishment after exercise is not in digestion or the glycemic index of a given source of carbohydrate. Over a 24-hour period it is the total amount of carbohydrate consumed that is important.

The rate-limiting step in glucose uptake during exercise is determined by the rate of phosphorylation once glucose has entered the muscle cell (Halseth 1998). Glycogen synthase activity is also a possible rate-limiting step (Halseth 1998). These processes are not readily influenced by the composition of the "post exercise" meal, but rather by the extent to which glycogen was depleted during exercise as well as the amount of carbohydrate and fat consistently included in the diet.

It is recommended that at least 0.7 - 1.0 gram of carbohydrate per kilogram body weight be consumed immediately after exercise and then again 1-2 hours later. If you experience gastric upset try increasing the amount of water you consume with the carbs. Try to shoot for a total of 7-10 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight over a 24-hour period 3 for maximum glycogen storage. This may well be in excess of caloric needs but it is important to shoot for this intake if glycogen storage is your primary goal.

Protein
Protein is another critical nutrient post-exercise. Protein is essential to post exercise anabolism. Protein provides amino acids that are used to rebuild damaged tissues as well as provide enzymes and carrier proteins necessary for adaptation to exercise. Without protein, which supplies essential amino acids for endogenous protein synthesis, the body's ability to adapt to exercise is greatly diminished.

Studies have shown a 12 to 14 day period after the onset of an unaccustomed exercise program, in which nitrogen balance, the ratio of protein intake to protein loss, is negative (Butterfield 1987). Any study looking at protein needs and exercise must take this into account. Nitrogen balance during this period appears to be insensitive to total caloric intake, but can be improved with a high protein intake if adequate calories are supplied (Gontzea 1975). Even though additional protein intake will prevent nitrogen balance from becoming negative, it will still fall despite high protein intake during the first two weeks of exercise.

Muscle specific messenger RNA (mRNA) produced subsequent to training has a half-life of only 4-5 hours. It is so short because mRNA has no "quality control" mechanism built into the coding. By keeping the half-life short, any errors in the sequence won't be able to produce enough defective proteins to do irreparable damage to the cell or organism. This also allows tight control of protein metabolism.

The timing of protein intake is important. If the anabolic stimulus from exercise is to be maximized, a steady flow of amino acids must bathe the muscle while mRNA content is high. It should be no surprise that the optimum time for protein intake after your workout is relatively brief compared to frequency of training a particular muscle. Muscle protein synthetic rate (MPS) is elevated in humans by up to 50% at about 4 hours following a bout of heavy resistance training, and by 109% at 24 hours following training. A study done by Macdougall (MacDougall et al 1995) further examined the time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis by examining its rate at 36 hrs following a bout of heavy resistance training. Six healthy young men performed 12 sets of 6- to 12-RM elbow flexion exercises with one arm while the opposite arm served as a control. MPS was calculated from the in vivo rate of incorporation of L-[1,2-13C2] leucine into biceps brachii of both arms over 11 hours. At an average time of 36 hours post-exercise, MPS in the exercised arm had returned to within 14% of the control arm value, the difference being nonsignificant. The following conclusions can be drawn from this study, following a bout of heavy resistance training, muscle protein synthetic rate increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hours, and then declines rapidly so that at 36 hours it has almost returned to baseline.

Current recommendations for total protein intake for athletes is between 1.6-1.8 grams per kilogram body weight, depending on who you read, however, it is not uncommon for bodybuilders to consume in excess of 2 grams per kg of body weight with no ill effects. It should be remembered that the body does not have the capacity to effectively store amino acids. Protein should be eaten at least every 3-4 hours. The evening meal should contain slowly digesting protein that will allow a steady release of amino acids into your system well into the night. Dinner is a perfect time for steak or other meat dishes.

Fat
Little is known about the effects of fat in the "post-exercise" meal. Total fat intake is probably more important for a bodybuilder than just considering the post-workout meal.

Essential fatty acids in sufficient quantities have the ability to alter physiology. Fatty acids such as omega-3s' and omega-6s', when consumed in differing ratios in a consistent and deliberate manner, can alter the composition of cell membranes which alters the production of prostaglandins in working muscles and thereby can modify everything from glucose transport to protein synthesis (Hayashi 1999). These effects are seen after at least 5 days of consuming of these fats in moderate to high doses. Eating them immediately after training and at no other time will most likely not have any dramatic effect.

Some forms of fat may delay gastric emptying which theoretically could slow the rate at which nutrients become available to tissues. We can only speculate whether this would have any "long term" effect on gains. Most research indicates that glycogen replenishment is delayed but not reduced when gastric emptying is prolonged.

There is some indication that cholesterol may be an important nutrient immediately after high intensity resistance exercise. Total cholesterol has been shown to be significantly lowered for at least 90 hours following a single bout of resistance exercise (Smith 1994). Serum cholesterol may be needed for incorporation into damaged cell membranes after resistance exercise. I'm not implying that you should eat a high cholesterol meal right after training. Taken together, research is still lacking where the optimal levels and composition of post-exercise fats are concerned.

Fluids
I couldn't really write an article about pre- and post exercise nutrition without at least mentioning fluid replacement. Hydration is extremely important on the cellular level. Muscle growth is inhibited by dehydration. In bodybuilding we tend not to focus on fluid replacement because, unlike runners or cyclists, most bodybuilders do not become dehydrated after a single workout. The rate at which you become dehydrated from training depends on how much you sweat (Gisolfi 1990). Some people sweat a lot when lifting and others don't sweat a drop. A good rule of thumb is to drink 1 ml for every calorie that you need. So, if you eat 3,500 calories a day, try to drink 3 _ liters. If you exercise in hot or humid climates add 2 cups of water for every pound you lose while exercising.

Continued on next page >>
 
SOLID said:
And why don't you be so kind to provide me with the information that you heard Chad N...going into detail about using fructose for postworkout.

Here you go....directly from Chad Nicholls' mouth.
First off - awesome question to get things rolling. I'm going to answer this in way more detail than you ever dreamed of. There has been so much bull coming from milos about this subject and I'm gonna set the record straight once and for all and hopefully you can find your answer somewhere within.

1) Milos has always tried to say he is the one that showed me how to use the insulin. Complete b.s. - back in '94, I believe - it was a long time ago - we were at a contest and Milos and I sat down and talked about the insulin and he gave me his take on how he used it. However, this wasn't the first time I had talked to anyone about insulin - it was probably one of a handful of conversations I had with various people that year on the subject. My two primary conversations were with physician friends of mine and this is where all of my knowledge on the subject came from - that and trial and error. Yes, I listened to what Milos had to say, but never implemented anything. He only had one area in the entire insulin program right - and that was the time period of when to eat after the insulin - which had previously been printed in Muscle Media 2000 the month before.

2) Supposedly, all of this information came from his sister, who is a doctor, but in a conversation with Dan Duchaine, who is the one that set up the program for Muscle Media 2000 (identical to the one Milos had), he had told me that he and Muscle Media were the ones who gave Milos his information. Now, I have no way of confirming this - I only know that Milos was friends with the "Muscle Media Crew" at the time.

3) The great insulin plan by Milos taught me everything NOT to do with insulin. So, I do need to thank him there. So, I'll give you a quick rundown on his plan - his primary thought is to take the insulin 3 times a day, 5 days a week. This will give you great result if you are trying to become a self-induced diabetic. As well, after 3-4 weeks of this, the insulin stops responding in the body - the scary thing is that you can actually take insulin at this point and NOT eat - and nothing will happen to you.

4) Milos also, at the time, was talking of taking "G" in the morning WITH the insulin. I had heard he has changed his train of thought concerning this - but obviously, this is the worst time to take G!

5) In terms of using dextrose with the insulin, yes it will cover the insulin - but this is all it will do. It's through the system entirely too fast to get any kind of carbing up benefit from, and one of the primary purposes of carbing up with insulin is to glycogen load the muscle. Dextrose is so fast that you will more likely than not have a "spill over". Unfortunately, you can see this in a lot of his athletes. I prefer simple sugar carbs, to be a little more specific - fruits. You get the same benefit, but they are slower through the system and the loading factor is tremendously better.

6) Obviously, by now, you should be able to tell that Milos and I are at opposite ends of the table on how we feel about insulin and how it should be used. Every person's makeup is so different, so it is hard to just say here's a plan - use it - but here's a quick rundown of a plan that hits pretty close for most people: You should never use insulin more than twice weekly. Possibly once every three (3) days would be the most and I've only seen a couple of people who would actually need to use it that much. You would have to have a crazy metabolism to do that. Most people take it once a week and this is on Wednesday - and take it 3 times that day - once every 6 hours. I also prefer Humulin R and I believe Milos prefers Humulog. Here again, I believe Humulog is much too fast, and you risk the chance of a spill over. --Obviously, this is ONLY in the off-season and I never have athletes diet on insulin - I think Millos' belief on this is different.

I want to make it perfectly clear that Milos, as a person, I actually like, but his beliefs for the most part, I don't agree with. And, in turn, I'm aware that he doesn't agree with a lot of my theories - but everyone has their opinions and are entitled to that. Now that I have used your question to "Vent", I hope you have found your answer.

Now SOLID, you are calling Chad a MORON...YOU ARE THE MORON FOR EVEN THINKING THAT! 1. This guy you base your knowledge on has a B.S. degree....wow, im so impressed....i have a B.S. degree as well, so I guess im as qualified as he is to say what i feel as well then, huh. This guy isnt a nutrionist to such atheletes as Gunter, Tom Prince, Kim, Ronnie, King....etc. Chad is the best, bar none. Maybe you should sit and think about that one. You need to respect the people who know their shit...not some guy with a B.S. degree!
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haha. you guys! lol. a little fructose is OK....but like solid said, maltodextrin or sugar (i prefer pure glucose) is preffered. i like to take the glucose immediate after, and then the malto about two hours later. fructose is shitty.
 
5) In terms of using dextrose with the insulin, yes it will cover the insulin - but this is all it will do. It's through the system entirely too fast to get any kind of carbing up benefit from, and one of the primary purposes of carbing up with insulin is to glycogen load the muscle. Dextrose is so fast that you will more likely than not have a "spill over". Unfortunately, you can see this in a lot of his athletes. I prefer simple sugar carbs, to be a little more specific - fruits. You get the same benefit, but they are slower through the system and the loading factor is tremendously better.

Guys, how can you refute this....here it is in black and white. I do this myself and it had worked unbelievably. Im a size right now where i should have never genetically been. Chad is the man!
 
greg21 said:



5) In terms of using dextrose with the insulin, yes it will cover the insulin - but this is all it will do. It's through the system entirely too fast to get any kind of carbing up benefit from, and one of the primary purposes of carbing up with insulin is to glycogen load the muscle. Dextrose is so fast that you will more likely than not have a "spill over". Unfortunately, you can see this in a lot of his athletes. I prefer simple sugar carbs, to be a little more specific - fruits. You get the same benefit, but they are slower through the system and the loading factor is tremendously better.



Now SOLID, you are calling Chad a MORON...YOU ARE THE MORON FOR EVEN THINKING THAT! 1. This guy you base your knowledge on has a B.S. degree....wow, im so impressed....i have a B.S. degree as well, so I guess im as qualified as he is to say what i feel as well then, huh. This guy isnt a nutrionist to such atheletes as Gunter, Tom Prince, Kim, Ronnie, King....etc. Chad is the best, bar none. Maybe you should sit and think about that one. You need to respect the people who know their shit...not some guy with a B.S. degree!
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holy shit that was such a perswaysive article to make me want to start using Fructose ...BAHA! Get outta here dude. I can see why dextrose mat not be the best choice using Insulin, because of timing! Maltodextrin may be a wiser choice since gastric emptying wont occur as quickly therefore preventing hypoglycemia. And yes dextrose is fast acting, exactly what you want to spike your insuling levels. The best would be a mix of Dex/Malto for postworkout. You need some more studies bro...ok.
 
SOLID said:


holy shit that was such a perswaysive article to make me want to start using Fructose ...BAHA! Get outta here dude. I can see why dextrose mat not be the best choice using Insulin, because of timing! Maltodextrin may be a wiser choice since gastric emptying wont occur as quickly therefore preventing hypoglycemia. And yes dextrose is fast acting, exactly what you want to spike your insuling levels. The best would be a mix of Dex/Malto for postworkout. You need some more studies bro...ok.

Ok, bro glad you admitt using dextrose is not the best choice while using slin. That is what i have been trying to tell you! I do believe that if youre not using slin then a maltodextrin choice of carb would be a great way to go such as beverly international's mass maker. I dont need more studies, i know what works for me and most pros!
 
Fructose is bad, evil, and can cause harm!

http://www.mercola.com/2001/dec/12/syndrome_x.htm


How Fructose, Insulin and Syndrome X Can Change Your Life
By Gail Vines

You try to look after yourself. You reduced your intake of saturated fat years ago, you're not overweight, you don't smoke. Basically, you don't consider yourself at risk of developing heart disease.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there's something you've overlooked. Syndrome X.

The name, coined by Gerry Reaven of Stanford University in the late 1980s, sounds threatening, and with good reason. Syndrome X is a hidden but life-threatening perversion of bodily metabolism that is likely to hasten the end of anyone who has it.

Syndrome X is Alarmingly Common

What's more, evidence is growing that we can bring it on ourselves, by the way we eat.

In well-fed parts of the world, a third of the adult population may have succumbed already, and there will be plenty more in the pipeline. Most of them won't know that there's a problem yet - the early stages go unnoticed.

All the same, the symptoms are all there: high blood pressure, raised levels of tell-tale fats called triglycerides found in the blood, and insulin resistance-an acquired resistance to the body's vital glucose-handling hormone.

Diabetes and heart disease are lying in wait for anyone with this group of symptoms collectively known as syndrome X. "The syndrome is a major cause of coronary heart disease," Reaven says, though nobody can yet be more precise than that. So what causes it? After decades of sometimes acrimonious debate, at last researchers may be nearing an answer.

The usual suspects are all there: fatness, sloth and a family history. But there's some good news from the latest studies of the biochemistry of syndrome X. What we eat and how we eat it can make a difference.

One key insight is that the liver holds the secret to syndrome X. Manipulating the behavior of this organ could keep at bay the twin perils of heart disease and diabetes. Another is that sugar could be as bad for your heart as saturated fat.

"We've long known that diets high in saturated fats are bad news," says Victor Zammit, head of cell biochemistry at the Hannah Research Institute in Ayr, Scotland. But we don't have to eat saturated fats to find our bodies awash with these dangerous molecules.

As our liver deals with the products of digestion, it can flood the bloodstream with deadly saturated fats that are already within the body. Anything that encourages the liver to do this could be just as bad as ingesting saturated fat itself.

Evidence is emerging also that our "grazing" pattern of eating could partly explain why syndrome X is on the increase. Zammit believes that eating too frequently could be one of the triggers that turns your liver into a relentless fat-secreting machine.

This Is How It Works

Each time we eat, insulin is released into the bloodstream. This vital hormone, secreted by special cells in the pancreas, encourages our tissues-particularly our muscles-to gobble up the glucose surging through the bloodstream after a meal.

That's all to the good, because glucose hanging about in the blood is dangerous stuff. It can stick to proteins and destroy their ability to do their job. Blindness, kidney damage and amputations may result.

But insulin has another vital role. After a meal, it stops the liver from releasing any fat, a potential metabolic fuel, into the blood. Why after a meal? It turns out that just like glucose, these fats are dangerous if they hang about in the blood too long.

They are released as triglycerides, carried within molecular escorts known as very low density lipoproteins, or VLDLs. But in the blood they become altered biochemically in a way that makes them more likely to stick to artery walls.

And of course once the arteries become narrowed by such fatty plaques, a heart attack may not be far away. These fats are particularly undesirable in the bloodstream just after a meal because the enzymes that can safely remove them from circulation are busy dealing with fat from the food you've just eaten.

Zammit and his colleagues have only recently discovered how this process can go wrong-in rats at least. He believes that the road to syndrome X begins with frequent high-energy snacks, exposing the liver to insulin for long periods without a decent break.

In studies of laboratory rats, the researchers found that when insulin is present for long periods, it flicks a metabolic switch in the liver that prevents it from inhibiting triglyceride secretion. Instead, perversely, insulin stimulates the liver to release even more triglycerides, carried within heart disease promoting VLDLs. Zammit believes that the same process is likely to happen in people.

What Happens To The Sugar In Our Diet

It's a vicious cycle. In turn, the excess triglycerides make muscle cells insulin-resistant, interfering with the signaling pathway that normally allows them to soak up glucose from the blood. As a result, more insulin needs to be secreted, and full-blown syndrome X is fast approaching.

Eventually our adipose cells-bombarded with extra calories to store in the form of triglycerides and glucose-succumb to insulin resistance too. In a final twist, the overloaded fat cells flood the blood with fatty acids that in turn start killing the insulin-secreting pancreatic cells.

Insulin levels plummet; glucose accumulates in the blood even between meals-and a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes is made. If the patient fails to change their diet and lose weight, the destruction of insulin-secreting cells continues apace. Eventually, daily injections of insulin are needed just to keep the patient alive.

It's a frightening scenario, but we can do something about it. For a start, we can exercise to use as many of our muscles as possible, and to help them use up the extra fatty fuel.

New research by physiologists at the University of Loughborough, Christina Koutsari and Adrianne Hardman, reveals that a moderate amount of daily exercise might even prevent the dramatic rise in blood triglyceride levels that happens when healthy volunteers are switched to a high-sugar diet.

But Zammit recommends that we also eat less often-leaving a good 4 or 5 hours between meals and cutting out snacks. He reckons our livers have evolved to cope with infrequent meals. Two meals a day could be better for you than continual snacking.

We Have To Watch What We Eat As Well As When

Eating or drinking certain things can increase fat secretion by the liver and have just as detrimental an effect as ingesting saturated fat itself. Drink too much alcohol, for instance-more than the equivalent of a glass or two of wine a day-and you stimulate your liver to churn out the very fats that promote heart disease.

The big surprise is that sugary foods could be just as damaging as fats and alcohol.

"Foods high in fructose-and that includes ordinary sugar, sucrose, which is half fructose-may be just as bad as saturated fats," says Zammit.

Both Sorts Of Food Are Royal Roads To Syndrome X

Over the past decade or so, various studies have suggested that the body treats fructose in a markedly different way from the simple sugar glucose. What's worrying is that fructose is selectively shunted towards the liver, and the formation of fats.

For a start, it is metabolized in the liver to provide one of the building blocks of triglycerides. But a fructose-rich diet also directly stimulates the liver to secrete those dangerous triglycerides, just as bombarding the liver with insulin does.

"Fructose could be mimicking what I think frequent insulin secretion does," Zammit explains. In the short term it could promote insulin resistance in muscle-the first step to syndrome X-and in the long term it could promote heart disease.

Not everyone agrees that fructose is dangerous. Some say there's not enough in our diet to have any noticeable effect. But a wealth of animal studies support the idea.

Feed a lab rat fructose, at levels comparable to those in human diets, and it develops insulin resistance, even if it stays lean.

Last year, researchers at the University of Toronto in Canada fed a high-fructose diet to Syrian golden hamsters, which have a fat metabolism remarkably similar to humans'. In a matter of weeks, the hamsters developed syndrome X-including high triglyceride levels and insulin resistance.

And a powerful study of fructose's effects on humans was published last year. Clinical nutritionist John Bantle and his colleagues at the University of Minnesota at Minneapolis fed a diet containing 17 per cent of the total energy as fructose to two dozen healthy volunteers for six weeks.

It sounds like a lot of fructose, but Bantle reckons that at least 27 million Americans eat this much in their diet.

They then fed the volunteers a diet sweetened with glucose and nearly devoid of fructose. The results were dramatic, particularly in the men, who proved to be more sensitive than women to fructose. Why this should be so is not yet clear.

"The fructose diet produced significantly higher triglyceride concentrations in the blood, compared to the glucose diet," says Bantle. In men, levels were 32 per cent higher. More importantly, on the fructose diet, the triglyceride levels peaked just after meals-when these fats can do the most damage to our arteries. He'd like to see a marked reduction in the amount of fructose added to beverages and food in the Western diet.

"It's a wake-up call for the food industry," Zammit agrees. "Food manufacturers are good at labeling processed foods as '99 per cent fat free'. What they don't say is that they are 15 per cent sugars, which is probably worse than some fats."

His concern is that "people may deliberately select low-fat processed foods, thinking they are making a healthy choice, and yet the product could be very high in fructose." And it's not just sweet tooths we must resist, it's our liking for sweet drinks. Zammit suspects that high-sugar soft drinks, now consumed in vast quantities, could be the most worrying component of the modern diet.

The dangers of fructose are not yet widely known, and the amounts consumed in the average Western diet have shot up since the 1970s. The sucrose molecule is half fructose and half glucose, so eating anything with ordinary sugar in it gives you a dose of the stuff.

Worse still, food manufacturers in the late 1960s started to use a cheap sweetener, corn (maize) syrup, which is virtually pure fructose. It's now added to all sorts of food, including most breakfast cereals and a vast range of processed foods.

From 1975 to 1990, fructose consumption from corn sweeteners increased tenfold in the US. Surveys dating from the late 1980s put the average US consumption of fructose at about 9 per cent of dietary energy intake, which means that many people will be consuming far more.

"Metabolic effects on the population from this rapid change may not be apparent for some time," reckons Judith Hallfrisch of the National Institute of Aging in Baltimore. But give fructose a few decades to wreak its metabolic havoc, and the next generation of epidemiologists may be picking up the pieces.

Of course, it's tempting to think you might be one of the lucky ones who will never develop insulin resistance. People differ in their susceptibility to syndrome X, no doubt partly as a result of their genetic makeup-though the key susceptibility genes have yet to be tracked down.

Fetal nutrition and diet in early infancy may be equally important, as David Barker of the University of Southampton argues. Babies who are undernourished in the womb and shortly after birth seem to be particularly susceptible to syndrome X, especially if they are well fed in later life and become overweight.

Even if the genetic cards are stacked against you, there's intriguing evidence that diet can still make a difference. Consider the Pima, Native Americans of southern Arizona, nearly all of whom are cursed with a "thrifty genotype".

Their metabolism is especially geared to laying down fat in preparation for times of famine. By old age, nearly all have developed type 2 diabetes. Even by age eight, most are already insulin resistant. But this plague only struck after the Pima people were introduced to Western foods.

Pima Indians who ate a typical Western diet were found to be two and a half times as likely to develop diabetes as those who ate a somewhat more traditional diet over the 10 years of the study. Genes are not necessarily destiny.

But scientists acknowledge that to change our ways, we need help-if only to resist all those tempting convenience foods now filling our supermarket shelves. If the food industry is reluctant to take the new health messages on board, it could be "strongly regulated" to produce a tasty but healthy diet, argues editor Waldhausl.

Such a change might even be in food producers' own interests. Perhaps, says Waldhausl, the industry will one day be forced to pay damages "similar in scale to those awarded against the tobacco industry today" to consumers made fatally ill by eating their products.

How Much Fructose Is In Our Food

The take-home message from the latest nutritional research is that if you feel like something sweet, reach for a piece of fruit. Fructose is found in fruit and vegetables, but unlike processed foods it's present in vanishingly small amounts and is bound up with complex plant fiber and other nutrients that offer many health benefits.

In 1999, researchers at Harvard even went so far as to suggest that every extra fruit or serving of vegetable consumed each day reduced the risk of a stroke by a whopping 6 per cent.

But it's not just sugars we need to watch. The kinds of fats we eat also have an enormous impact on our long-term health, says Len Storlien, director of metabolic research at the pharmaceuticals company AstraZeneca.

Instead of struggling to eat far less fat overall, he argues that people should reduce their consumption of saturated fat by switching to olive oil and polyunsaturated fats, especially marine fish oils. These can suppress the liver's release of harmful triglycerides. A diet high in these polyunsaturated fatty acids combats syndrome X.

Gerry Reaven of Stanford University, who coined the term syndrome X, couldn't agree more. But he's also convinced that the "low-fat" message has encouraged people to eat more insulin-stimulating carbohydrate instead, fuelling the epidemic of insulin resistance.

There's a third, albeit controversial strategy to avoid syndrome X: eating "slow-release" carbohydrates that arguably don't provoke the same rush of insulin. These are complex carbohydrates with lots of plant fibre-such as barley, millet and brown rice-and those that the body can digest only slowly, such as pasta, beans and lentils.

Storlien would like to see the food industry create foods that take longer to digest. While at the University of Wollongong in Australia he collaborated with a company marketing a novel bread. Made with corn starch high in the polysaccharide amylose, the white bread is digested much more slowly than ordinary bread. This month two such breads will be launched in Britain.

New Scientist magazine, Volume 171 Issue 2306, January 9, 2001, page 26

The Journal of Nutrition, Vol. 131:2001 p 2074


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DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:

This is a good review that supports many of the previous articles on this vitally important concept of nutrition.

Fructose is not something that should be in your diet. Yet, as the article states, over 25 million Americans have ONE FIFTH of their calories from this sweetener.

This is absolutely insane and these individuals will eventually reap the harvest of such poor food choices with inevitable disease consequences.

One of the simplest and most important things you can do is stop soda and fruit juices as they have about 8 teaspoons of fructose.

Soda should almost be illegal to give to children. I can't think of any reason or justification to continue such a disease promoting practice.

Related Articles:

Insulin and Its Metabolic Effects

Lower Your Grains & Lower Your Insulin Levels! A Novel Way to Treat Hypoglycemia

Fructose Raises Triglyceride Levels

Insulin Resistance Increases Heart Disease Risk

Killer Sugar! Suicide With A Spoon




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bro, greg21 is presenting a civil debate and you're acting like a moron.

I think you just don't like fruit because everyone always CALLS YOU A FRUIT. :rainbow::rainbow::rainbow::rainbow:
 
fuck you, I'm moody today. Everything's making me snap. I don't mean to be an ass, but if you come at me be prepared to back your shit up. I still want to see some research, not just "hear say". What is this follow the leader? I gotta go lift and let some aggression out:mad:
 
mvmaxx said:


Have you graduated to the pink dumbells yet? :confused: Don't hurt yourself there big guy. :rolleyes:

nope can't quite get them off the rack. Mabey you can give me some advice on how to get out of this platuea im currently stuck in. :o
 
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